Posted: 6/25/2015 6:24:04 PM EDT
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart. 
What gives? |
|
Quoted:
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart.
What gives? Small businesses don't invest in IP technology.. They stay with their 10 year old analog systems. Bad light, too much light, poor TVL (quality), EMI or other noise.. IP pricing has come down substantially - yet small businesses like gas stations, small non-franchise retail stores etc stick to their inexpensive "investment" and hope it's good enough. It never is. Two end games to getting a video system: To detect, or to identify. Unfortunately those analog systems provide neither, in most situations. |
|
I've seen some security video on the local TV news that had excellent quality.
A lot of systems were installed back in the days when security cameras and recorders sucked - i.e., analog cameras with just a few hundred lines of resolution, and images stored on a VERY slow-moving VHS video tape. The good stuff really hasn't been around for all that long. Most businesses with older systems are reluctant to cough up the upgrade bucks - particularly when the old stuff continues to keep chugging along. |
|
Quoted:
Hahaha haha haha. It's not CSI Miami. We can't enhance information that isn't there in the first place. Quoted:
Quoted:
Also, consider that "raw" images shown on TV don't necessarily reflect the quality of "enhanced" images used in a crime investigation or trial. Hahaha haha haha. It's not CSI Miami. We can't enhance information that isn't there in the first place. 
|
|
Quoted:
Hahaha haha haha. It's not CSI Miami. We can't enhance information that isn't there in the first place. Quoted:
Quoted:
Also, consider that "raw" images shown on TV don't necessarily reflect the quality of "enhanced" images used in a crime investigation or trial. Hahaha haha haha. It's not CSI Miami. We can't enhance information that isn't there in the first place. You might be surprised... One advantage of video is that an object of interest is often captured in more than one frame - which allows you to do things like average out noise, accurately determine speed and direction of motion, add or subtract specific elements in multiple trames, etc. |
|
Quoted:
You might be surprised... One advantage of video is that an object of interest is often captured in more than one frame - which allows you to do things like average out noise, accurately determine speed and direction of motion, add or subtract specific elements in multiple trames, etc. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Also, consider that "raw" images shown on TV don't necessarily reflect the quality of "enhanced" images used in a crime investigation or trial. Hahaha haha haha. It's not CSI Miami. We can't enhance information that isn't there in the first place. You might be surprised... One advantage of video is that an object of interest is often captured in more than one frame - which allows you to do things like average out noise, accurately determine speed and direction of motion, add or subtract specific elements in multiple trames, etc. I understand you can tidy up video. What you cannot do, however, is enhance information that is unavailable in the first place. Also any editing or cleaning video will take a substancial amount of time and manpower. Mora than most depts are willing to put into a shoplifter etc. |
|
Quoted:
I've seen some security video on the local TV news that had excellent quality. A lot of systems were installed back in the days when security cameras and recorders sucked - i.e., analog cameras with just a few hundred lines of resolution, and images stored on a VERY slow-moving VHS video tape. The good stuff really hasn't been around for all that long. Most businesses with older systems are reluctant to cough up the upgrade bucks - particularly when the old stuff continues to keep chugging along. How expensive can it be? I can get shit for my house for $500 and have an live HD feed on my phone. |
|
Quoted:
How expensive can it be? I can get shit for my house for $500 and have an live HD feed on my phone. Quoted:
Quoted:
I've seen some security video on the local TV news that had excellent quality. A lot of systems were installed back in the days when security cameras and recorders sucked - i.e., analog cameras with just a few hundred lines of resolution, and images stored on a VERY slow-moving VHS video tape. The good stuff really hasn't been around for all that long. Most businesses with older systems are reluctant to cough up the upgrade bucks - particularly when the old stuff continues to keep chugging along. How expensive can it be? I can get shit for my house for $500 and have an live HD feed on my phone. IP cameras just recently came down in price to a reasonable amount. Most people are still running analog cameras with a DVR or a crappy XP computer with a 250GB HD. |
|
Quoted:
How expensive can it be? I can get shit for my house for $500 and have an live HD feed on my phone. Quoted:
Quoted:
I've seen some security video on the local TV news that had excellent quality. A lot of systems were installed back in the days when security cameras and recorders sucked - i.e., analog cameras with just a few hundred lines of resolution, and images stored on a VERY slow-moving VHS video tape. The good stuff really hasn't been around for all that long. Most businesses with older systems are reluctant to cough up the upgrade bucks - particularly when the old stuff continues to keep chugging along. How expensive can it be? I can get shit for my house for $500 and have an live HD feed on my phone. To a Mexican restaurant that has been busted (several times!) for "recycling" the chips and salsa off customers' plates after they leave - 500 bucks would buy a LOT of Nacho cheese... 
|
|
Quoted: IP cameras just recently came down in price to a reasonable amount. Most people are still running analog cameras with a DVR or a crappy XP computer with a 250GB HD. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've seen some security video on the local TV news that had excellent quality. A lot of systems were installed back in the days when security cameras and recorders sucked - i.e., analog cameras with just a few hundred lines of resolution, and images stored on a VERY slow-moving VHS video tape. The good stuff really hasn't been around for all that long. Most businesses with older systems are reluctant to cough up the upgrade bucks - particularly when the old stuff continues to keep chugging along. How expensive can it be? I can get shit for my house for $500 and have an live HD feed on my phone. IP cameras just recently came down in price to a reasonable amount. Most people are still running analog cameras with a DVR or a crappy XP computer with a 250GB HD. That's what I run.... Not looking for network grade vids, just want to see what is happening or what happened in my absence! |
|
Quoted:
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart.
What gives? Even if it was high quality, whatever media outlet is showing it isn't usually going to have it in high quality. I haven't worked a camera in about a decade, but even back then with old equipment you could count bugs on the sidewalk. |
|
With + 1TB SSDs coming down in price, the advancement is really less than a decade away from practical storage options based on current tech trends.
Really within 5 years, but adding an extra 5 to ensure cheap HD cameras and storage options at the big box retailers. |
|
Quoted:
Small businesses don't invest in IP technology.. They stay with their 10 year old analog systems. Bad light, too much light, poor TVL (quality), EMI or other noise.. IP pricing has come down substantially - yet small businesses like gas stations, small non-franchise retail stores etc stick to their inexpensive "investment" and hope it's good enough. It never is. Two end games to getting a video system: To detect, or to identify. Unfortunately those analog systems provide neither, in most situations. Quoted:
Quoted:
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart.
What gives? Small businesses don't invest in IP technology.. They stay with their 10 year old analog systems. Bad light, too much light, poor TVL (quality), EMI or other noise.. IP pricing has come down substantially - yet small businesses like gas stations, small non-franchise retail stores etc stick to their inexpensive "investment" and hope it's good enough. It never is. Two end games to getting a video system: To detect, or to identify. Unfortunately those analog systems provide neither, in most situations. There's a third: "Check off a box from a requirements list", driven by either an insurance company or Howard Huges-like business owner. |
|
Quoted:
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart.
What gives? lol. 1 hour of 720 is what...about 10 gig?. that's almost 2 terabytes a week, per camera. |
|
Quoted:
With + 1TB SSDs coming down in price, the advancement is really less than a decade away from practical storage options based on current tech trends. Really within 5 years, but adding an extra 5 to ensure cheap HD cameras and storage options at the big box retailers. Quoted:
With + 1TB SSDs coming down in price, the advancement is really less than a decade away from practical storage options based on current tech trends. Really within 5 years, but adding an extra 5 to ensure cheap HD cameras and storage options at the big box retailers. Not even five years: SSD Prices In A Free Fall
So what about SSD price points? In 2014, prices for high-end consumer SSDs dropped below enterprise-class HDD, and continued to drop in 2015. A terabyte SSD can be had for around $300. Moreover, this is before 3D NAND begins to further cut prices. By the end of 2016, it’s a safe bet that price parity will be close, if not already achieved, between consumer SSDs and the bulk SATA drives. Mechanical hard drives are destined to sit on the same shelf as cassette tapes, 35mm camera film, and VHS video cameras sooner rather than later. |
|
The company I work for has 36 cameras going to 2 DVRs. Most were shitty cheap $30 cameras when they had them installed. The image coming out has gotten worse as the years go on. The larger expense is the install in most cases.
We have a current bid for a replacement and additional cameras somewhere around $100k for 50+ IP Axis cameras and a massive NVR server to support the system. What is really cool about the server is you can configure different viewable camera patterns for different users. Ultimately, the company had to experience the shitty video footage results to appreciate what HD can bring to the plate. Really cool for me, as I'm the guy who reviews after an incident occurs and edits video from the multiple camera feeds to tell the story of what occurred for any type of prosecution. |
|
Quoted:
Sometimes you get what you pay for. I paid for HD day/night camera that look dead nuts beautiful day or night. We are going to invest in a 4 or 8 cam setup, but not sure which way to go. What are you running if I can ask? We want nighttime at 60 feet that will be legal or hold up in court. |
|
Quoted:
I'll throw in; why mount numerous cameras up high so all you see it a hat brim. My not mount one near the cash register low so it actually films the prep’s face? That's the difference between area coverage, and focused coverage. Eye-level cameras are a great addition to areas where people walk/stand. |
|
Quoted:
I've seen some security video on the local TV news that had excellent quality. A lot of systems were installed back in the days when security cameras and recorders sucked - i.e., analog cameras with just a few hundred lines of resolution, and images stored on a VERY slow-moving VHS video tape. The good stuff really hasn't been around for all that long. Most businesses with older systems are reluctant to cough up the upgrade bucks - particularly when the old stuff continues to keep chugging along. The part in red, we just got a quote to upgrade all of our cameras to IP cameras. It was quite expensive due to the fact we have so many cameras and the existing system is probably from the early 1990s so it would be all new wiring, switches, etc. It is considered a capital project and quite a big deal so for now we are stuck with our old garbage cameras that work but don't have very good quality. |
| Our newest system we're using is about 5 grand with 11 cameras. All HD but to get about 20 days on 8 terabytes the image quality can not be the best. I've left the office, and registers on the highest resolution but it's all a game of compromise. You almost never know you need video of something until 10 or 15 days have passed so with everything on high resolution your screwed. |
|
Quoted:
Our newest system we're using is about 5 grand with 11 cameras. All HD but to get about 20 days on 8 terabytes the image quality can not be the best. I've left the office, and registers on the highest resolution but it's all a game of compromise. You almost never know you need video of something until 10 or 15 days have passed so with everything on high resolution your screwed. What frame-rate? You should be able to get that length of time on 8TB with only 11 cameras, provided they're not 8MP monsters. |
|
Quoted:
What frame-rate? You should be able to get that length of time on 8TB with only 11 cameras, provided they're not 8MP monsters. Quoted:
Quoted:
Our newest system we're using is about 5 grand with 11 cameras. All HD but to get about 20 days on 8 terabytes the image quality can not be the best. I've left the office, and registers on the highest resolution but it's all a game of compromise. You almost never know you need video of something until 10 or 15 days have passed so with everything on high resolution your screwed. What frame-rate? You should be able to get that length of time on 8TB with only 11 cameras, provided they're not 8MP monsters. There are 2 10mp, a few 5's, and some 2's. Frame rates are just quick enough to not look jumpy. (With cash it can't be jumpy at all.) |
|
All of the factors that USED to limit quality are just now being overcome at a reasonable price point.
That, and I think you have to be a bit of an enthusiast to really know what's possible these days. Most people who ask about my system on my house are blown away by even my relatively cheap 3MP day/night set up recording at 20 fps. If I show them how I can live stream or playback all my cameras simultaneously from my phone, they act like I'm a time traveler from the future. At the end of the day, I probably have under $500 into it. I'm doing 6MP box cameras at work set to 2560x1920 and 30 fps recording continuous and that's a bit more expensive. Probably going to have $8k into it by the time I'm done to have 7 cameras up and recording to an NVR. |
|
Quoted:
lol. 1 hour of 720 is what...about 10 gig?. that's almost 2 terabytes a week, per camera. Quoted:
Quoted:
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart.
What gives? lol. 1 hour of 720 is what...about 10 gig?. that's almost 2 terabytes a week, per camera. LOL, No. At work, I'm recording 2560x1920 at 30 fps with H.264 compression and I'm using about 38.9 GB per day or around 1.2TB per month on a single camera recording 24/7. The picture is CRYSTAL clear. My NVR has 2x4TB drives which were stupid cheap so my 7 camera system can hold just under a month of data. 2560x1920 is five times the pixel count of 1280x720. You could stretch a 1280x720 camera to damn near a year on 2TB with some tweaks to frame rate and bit rate and still get a great picture. Before H.264 and TB+ drives, this wasn't possible but it's easy now. |
|
Quoted:
DP systems are much better. This one is set on scan... http://ospaparazzi.com.br/imagem/201203/121610494.jpg Quoted:
Quoted:
I try to steer people away from iPotato systems, thank you very much. BTDT. I'm all-IP these days. DP systems are much better. This one is set on scan... http://ospaparazzi.com.br/imagem/201203/121610494.jpg My cameras aren't distracted when I throw a steak at them. |
|
Quoted:
I try to steer people away from iPotato systems, thank you very much. BTDT. I'm all-IP these days. Same. I can't remember the last time I installed an analog system. But, I have noticed that fewer people are doing cameras nowadays. The IP stuff is still just a little too steep for what most want to spend. It almost seems like if we won't sell them a Costco priced camera system they don't want one at all. Still wire for it just in case they change their minds. |
|
Cheap people are cheap. Everybody wants Las Vegas casino style cameras, but they don't want to spend the money to get the quality. I hear it all the time. "on TV the video is crystal clear  " and I always say "yea, those cameras cost a couple grand a piece, how many do you want?"
They just walk away. |
|
Quoted:
Because nobody wants to throw down big money on the cameras and then get out there and clean the lenses ever. It's included in our maintenance contract, every 6 months I go out and clean and adjust all of the cameras, I'll bet a lot of companies don't do that. |
|
Quoted:
The company I work for has 36 cameras going to 2 DVRs. Most were shitty cheap $30 cameras when they had them installed. The image coming out has gotten worse as the years go on. The larger expense is the install in most cases. Quoted:
The company I work for has 36 cameras going to 2 DVRs. Most were shitty cheap $30 cameras when they had them installed. The image coming out has gotten worse as the years go on. The larger expense is the install in most cases. Analog cameras have improved quite a bit, even over the past year or so. Claimed resolution is now up in the 1000 line range, and night time images are now a lot less grainy. A hundred dollar camera can get you a major improvement in image quality - without having to string new wire. Ditto for analog DVRs - The current stuff is "960H" capable (960 horizontal lines of resolution), which gives quite a bit better image quality than the 720 line "D1" stuff that was commonplace just a few years ago. We have a current bid for a replacement and additional cameras somewhere around $100k for 50+ IP Axis cameras and a massive NVR server to support the system. A current-generation 50-camera analog system (two 32 channel DVRs) would probably run you well under $10K - No server required. Yeh, it's apples to oranges for image quality - But that's still a huge difference in price. |
|
Quoted:
LOL, No. At work, I'm recording 2560x1920 at 30 fps with H.264 compression and I'm using about 38.9 GB per day or around 1.2TB per month on a single camera recording 24/7. The picture is CRYSTAL clear. My NVR has 2x4TB drives which were stupid cheap so my 7 camera system can hold just under a month of data. 2560x1920 is five times the pixel count of 1280x720. You could stretch a 1280x720 camera to damn near a year on 2TB with some tweaks to frame rate and bit rate and still get a great picture. Before H.264 and TB+ drives, this wasn't possible but it's easy now. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Always have shitty picture quality??? HD cameras are pretty cheap now and hard drives can store plenty of hd video. Yet, every time I see photos/video of a criminal on cc TV, it looks like it was filmed with a pop tart.
What gives? lol. 1 hour of 720 is what...about 10 gig?. that's almost 2 terabytes a week, per camera. LOL, No. At work, I'm recording 2560x1920 at 30 fps with H.264 compression and I'm using about 38.9 GB per day or around 1.2TB per month on a single camera recording 24/7. The picture is CRYSTAL clear. My NVR has 2x4TB drives which were stupid cheap so my 7 camera system can hold just under a month of data. 2560x1920 is five times the pixel count of 1280x720. You could stretch a 1280x720 camera to damn near a year on 2TB with some tweaks to frame rate and bit rate and still get a great picture. Before H.264 and TB+ drives, this wasn't possible but it's easy now. that's impressive--i stand corrected. |