[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Article V Convention (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/25/2015 12:13:38 PM EDT
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After careful reflection and meditation regarding the state legislatures calling for an Article V Convention to propose amendments to the US Constitution, I am reversing my position on the matter.
I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. I hope others will do the same. |
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Quoted:
After careful reflection and meditation regarding the state legislatures calling for an Article V Convention to propose amendments to the US Constitution, I am reversing my position on the matter. I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. I hope others will do the same. It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. The 2A is pretty fucking cut and dry, yet look at all the bans that take place and the fights people have to go through just to be able to own a handgun, etc. |
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We've traded seats, then. I thought it at least made for good symbolism but now oppose it.
To me, it seemed like the same logic as gun control laws - crimes are being committed by people who ignore the current laws. What earthly good will adding more laws do? They will continue to be ignored by criminals while restricting the law abiding further. We're in our current situation because politicians learned that they can ignore the Constitution, yet keep their jobs by bribing enough voting citizens with pandering and/or other citizens' money. What good would amending the Constitution do? They would continue to ignore it, while we risk losing even the semblance of legal protection of our individual rights. |
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You should read more then. You are wrong. Edit: spelling Read more of what? I have read the United States Constitution in its entirety. I have read the Articles of Confederation, the various Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, personal letters from many founding fathers (i.e. Jefferson), the notes James Madison personally took at the Philadelphia Convneiton, as well as other notes from contemporary sources of that day. Please tell me what more you would recommend reading. |
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Unless we get politicians, administrators, and judges that know and abide by their constitutional limits an article V convention will do nothing but lead to greater tyranny.
Having politicians, administrators, and judges that know and abide by their constitutional limits would obviate the need for changing the constitution. |
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It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. Quoted:
It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. That was one of the reasons I did not support an Article V Convention beforehand and I still believe what you said to be true. The Federal Government may indeed ignore any additional Constitutional amendments (or outright lie i.e. a tax is a penalty and a penalty is a tax). At that time the States can choose to do something or continue to do nothing. Quoted:The 2A is pretty fucking cut and dry, yet look at all the bans that take place and the fights people have to go through just to be able to own a handgun, etc. Again I would agree with you the 2A is no infringed upon in various states due to people having legitimate problems interpreting the 2A but rather due to the fact they just don't care what the Constitution says. The logical question is (which you just effectively asked): what good would it do to change/add/subtract more text that will simply be ignored? More state legislatures have been supporting the 2A over the last 30 years than have placed restrictions upon it. If the majority of the states can get together and force this issue the Federal Government will have to act (even if that action is non-action/status quo). At that time the States can choose to do something or continue to do nothing. There are a lot of risks to an Article V Convention. Do you see those risks being worse than what is happening today via normal Government inertia? I have asked myself that question quite a bit and I honestly do not know. |
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Unless we get politicians, administrators, and judges that know and abide by their constitutional limits an article V convention will do nothing but lead to greater tyranny. Having politicians, administrators, and judges that know and abide by their constitutional limits would obviate the need for changing the constitution. I agree which is why my first course of action has been and will continue to be to educate every person I can on what their government is doing to them and what their government ought to be doing (or not doing, as is the case). More tyranny from an Article V Convention? I believe that is absolutely possible (seeing as the last Convention we had acted out of their authority). |
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We've traded seats, then. I thought it at least made for good symbolism but now oppose it. To me, it seemed like the same logic as gun control laws - crimes are being committed by people who ignore the current laws. What earthly good will adding more laws do? They will continue to be ignored by criminals while restricting the law abiding further. We're in our current situation because politicians learned that they can ignore the Constitution, yet keep their jobs by bribing enough voting citizens with pandering and/or other citizens' money. What good would amending the Constitution do? They would continue to ignore it, while we risk losing even the semblance of legal protection of our individual rights. I agree with everything you said (especially the part I have emphasized). I don't have a clear answer to that question and I have never, ever been a "doing something is better than nothing just do to something regardless of the consequences" person (and I won't make that argument now). I see this as weighing the risks. What will happen to our Government if we continue to do what we are doing? vs What do we stand to lose in an Article V Convention? If a Convention were to be hijacked or taken over by professional politicians, we could lose everything. Some would argue we already have. I don't have an answer. Apart from education the people and getting the state governments involved, I don't know how to fight this problem. |
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"This Constitution was written for a moral and religious people it is wholly unsuited to govern any other".......John Adams. So, we either become a more moral and religious people (I don't see that happening).......or??? I think you know the answer to that question. |
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Apart from education the people and getting the state governments involved, I don't know how to fight this problem. Neither do I, and that eats at me. Sometimes it feels like we're heading towards a waterfall. Do you keep rowing backwards like mad and maybe avoid going over, or do you pull in the oars, batten down everything you can and start hanging on and praying? |
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After careful reflection and meditation regarding the state legislatures calling for an Article V Convention to propose amendments to the US Constitution, I am reversing my position on the matter. I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. I hope others will do the same. Okay. Have fun when they rewrite those pesky amendments called the bill of rights so that they're all just meaningless drivel. "But.... But.... Muh Republicans will fix it! " Just like they fixed Obamatrade, right?
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I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. Chief Justice Roberts and his minions are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to "interpret" the product of any such convention. You can have every confidence in the integrity of their work. Honest! |
| In order to have positive results out of a Constitutional Convention, you have to have faith that the people your elected representatives send will do the right thing. I do not have that faith in either the people sent, or the elected representatives that will pick them. |
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It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. The 2A is pretty fucking cut and dry, yet look at all the bans that take place and the fights people have to go through just to be able to own a handgun, etc. Quoted:
Quoted:
After careful reflection and meditation regarding the state legislatures calling for an Article V Convention to propose amendments to the US Constitution, I am reversing my position on the matter. I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. I hope others will do the same. It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. The 2A is pretty fucking cut and dry, yet look at all the bans that take place and the fights people have to go through just to be able to own a handgun, etc. Yes, but they still have to pretend to abide by it. Let the shitweasels rewrite it, and they'll just point to the "new" constitution and say "But look, it says we can do this, right here!" |
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Neither do I, and that eats at me. Sometimes it feels like we're heading towards a waterfall. Do you keep rowing backwards like mad and maybe avoid going over, or do you pull in the oars, batten down everything you can and start hanging on and praying? That one response eloquently and succinctly articulates the weight of my thoughts and feelings on this matter. I have analyzed the repercussions of what could come to pass should we be forced to "batten down everything you can and start hanging on" and, to be frank, I am scared out of my mind here. |
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Read more of what? I have read the United States Constitution in its entirety. I have read the Articles of Confederation, the various Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, personal letters from many founding fathers (i.e. Jefferson), the notes James Madison personally took at the Philadelphia Convneiton, as well as other notes from contemporary sources of that day. Please tell me what more you would recommend reading. Go back through the last 3 threads we have had on this topic for starters. There are countless links to current documents that prove why it's wrong. Why it's already had the ground work laid by the progressives and even the ones you now claim to support are on record stating its time to rewrite the constitution. Here is a starter list for you: https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com (Read the referenced documents also in the many many posts) https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42589.pdf (Here is the congressional research offices report on the article V topic. Pay close attention to the parts where they clearly state many of he rules/guidelines/procedures will be made up as they go along) iM when you get done with those- all of them from the first website referenced.... And I will send you more. Quoted:
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You should read more then. You are wrong. Edit: spelling Read more of what? I have read the United States Constitution in its entirety. I have read the Articles of Confederation, the various Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, personal letters from many founding fathers (i.e. Jefferson), the notes James Madison personally took at the Philadelphia Convneiton, as well as other notes from contemporary sources of that day. Please tell me what more you would recommend reading. Go back through the last 3 threads we have had on this topic for starters. There are countless links to current documents that prove why it's wrong. Why it's already had the ground work laid by the progressives and even the ones you now claim to support are on record stating its time to rewrite the constitution. Here is a starter list for you: https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com (Read the referenced documents also in the many many posts) https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42589.pdf (Here is the congressional research offices report on the article V topic. Pay close attention to the parts where they clearly state many of he rules/guidelines/procedures will be made up as they go along) iM when you get done with those- all of them from the first website referenced.... And I will send you more. Sorry messed up quote blocks but the list is easy to pull. |
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I agree with everything you said (especially the part I have emphasized). I don't have a clear answer to that question and I have never, ever been a "doing something is better than nothing just do to something regardless of the consequences" person (and I won't make that argument now). I see this as weighing the risks. What will happen to our Government if we continue to do what we are doing? vs What do we stand to lose in an Article V Convention? If a Convention were to be hijacked or taken over by professional politicians, we could lose everything. Some would argue we already have. I don't have an answer. Apart from education the people and getting the state governments involved, I don't know how to fight this problem. Quoted:
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We've traded seats, then. I thought it at least made for good symbolism but now oppose it. To me, it seemed like the same logic as gun control laws - crimes are being committed by people who ignore the current laws. What earthly good will adding more laws do? They will continue to be ignored by criminals while restricting the law abiding further. We're in our current situation because politicians learned that they can ignore the Constitution, yet keep their jobs by bribing enough voting citizens with pandering and/or other citizens' money. What good would amending the Constitution do? They would continue to ignore it, while we risk losing even the semblance of legal protection of our individual rights. I agree with everything you said (especially the part I have emphasized). I don't have a clear answer to that question and I have never, ever been a "doing something is better than nothing just do to something regardless of the consequences" person (and I won't make that argument now). I see this as weighing the risks. What will happen to our Government if we continue to do what we are doing? vs What do we stand to lose in an Article V Convention? If a Convention were to be hijacked or taken over by professional politicians, we could lose everything. Some would argue we already have. I don't have an answer. Apart from education the people and getting the state governments involved, I don't know how to fight this problem. Don't you see? Those fucks are exactly who would be running the convention in the first place.
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Chief Justice Roberts and his minions are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to "interpret" the product of any such convention. You can have every confidence in the integrity of their work. Honest! I so desperately want to write some horrible things addressing the content of your posts but I cannot because I know you are speaking the truth. That frightens me greatly. I have read your positions on an Article V Convention (I posted in one of the threads on this matter a few weeks back) and I cannot articulate adequate responses to your arguments. I have much to think about and few answers. What do you suggest we do? Seriously; I need help here. |
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That one response eloquently and succinctly articulates the weight of my thoughts and feelings on this matter. I have analyzed the repercussions of what could come to pass should we be forced to "batten down everything you can and start hanging on" and, to be frank, I am scared out of my mind here. Quoted:
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Neither do I, and that eats at me. Sometimes it feels like we're heading towards a waterfall. Do you keep rowing backwards like mad and maybe avoid going over, or do you pull in the oars, batten down everything you can and start hanging on and praying? That one response eloquently and succinctly articulates the weight of my thoughts and feelings on this matter. I have analyzed the repercussions of what could come to pass should we be forced to "batten down everything you can and start hanging on" and, to be frank, I am scared out of my mind here. Have kids? I do - 6 and 10. I get fear. I'm also on my way to interview a man - also a white-collar professional supporting young children - who was the victim of a federal raid and civil forfeiture. His crime? Trading bitcoins. Since they're legal and it's legal to transact them, he thought he'd make some pocket money out of investing in them. A Fed thought that indicated that he was some sort of counter-culture nogoodnik. He started making a killing but didn't realize it was almost entirely Feds buying the coins. Then they raided his home, seized his funds (which mostly came from them), traumatized his young daughter, stole his wife's personal writing (she's been living with a traumatic brain injury and daily logs are part of her therapy), and generally wrecked his life. The last thing my wife said to me when I left today was, "Don't get in trouble for talking with him." This is the America we live in now. |
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You watch the news media (democratic operatives with press credentials) orchestrate the wholesale shitting upon free expression on the "flag caused shooting" issue, and your conclusion is to tear open the Constitution in THIS political environment??!!!
People are shitting on freedom to thunderous applause! A ConCon would be the end of our republic as we know it. |
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After careful reflection and meditation regarding the state legislatures calling for an Article V Convention to propose amendments to the US Constitution, I am reversing my position on the matter. I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. I hope others will do the same. Welcome to the club |
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That was one of the reasons I did not support an Article V Convention beforehand and I still believe what you said to be true. The Federal Government may indeed ignore any additional Constitutional amendments (or outright lie i.e. a tax is a penalty and a penalty is a tax). At that time the States can choose to do something or continue to do nothing. Again I would agree with you the 2A is no infringed upon in various states due to people having legitimate problems interpreting the 2A but rather due to the fact they just don't care what the Constitution says. The logical question is (which you just effectively asked): what good would it do to change/add/subtract more text that will simply be ignored? More state legislatures have been supporting the 2A over the last 30 years than have placed restrictions upon it. If the majority of the states can get together and force this issue the Federal Government will have to act (even if that action is non-action/status quo). At that time the States can choose to do something or continue to do nothing. There are a lot of risks to an Article V Convention. Do you see those risks being worse than what is happening today via normal Government inertia? I have asked myself that question quite a bit and I honestly do not know. Quoted:
Quoted:
It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. That was one of the reasons I did not support an Article V Convention beforehand and I still believe what you said to be true. The Federal Government may indeed ignore any additional Constitutional amendments (or outright lie i.e. a tax is a penalty and a penalty is a tax). At that time the States can choose to do something or continue to do nothing. Quoted:The 2A is pretty fucking cut and dry, yet look at all the bans that take place and the fights people have to go through just to be able to own a handgun, etc. Again I would agree with you the 2A is no infringed upon in various states due to people having legitimate problems interpreting the 2A but rather due to the fact they just don't care what the Constitution says. The logical question is (which you just effectively asked): what good would it do to change/add/subtract more text that will simply be ignored? More state legislatures have been supporting the 2A over the last 30 years than have placed restrictions upon it. If the majority of the states can get together and force this issue the Federal Government will have to act (even if that action is non-action/status quo). At that time the States can choose to do something or continue to do nothing. There are a lot of risks to an Article V Convention. Do you see those risks being worse than what is happening today via normal Government inertia? I have asked myself that question quite a bit and I honestly do not know. In the current environment I don't think the chance of favorable outcome outweighs the risk of non-favorable outcome. Granted, I'm a cynical pessimist and I believe we're in a downward spiral that cannot be curtailed, so maybe "fuck it, let's see what happens"? |
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Yes, but they still have to pretend to abide by it. Let the shitweasels rewrite it, and they'll just point to the "new" constitution and say "But look, it says we can do this, right here!" Quoted:
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After careful reflection and meditation regarding the state legislatures calling for an Article V Convention to propose amendments to the US Constitution, I am reversing my position on the matter. I will support and actively seek to help all those who are working towards this goal. I hope others will do the same. It doesn't matter if you amend the Constitution, they just ignore it or interpret how they see fit. The 2A is pretty fucking cut and dry, yet look at all the bans that take place and the fights people have to go through just to be able to own a handgun, etc. Yes, but they still have to pretend to abide by it. Let the shitweasels rewrite it, and they'll just point to the "new" constitution and say "But look, it says we can do this, right here!" So basically, the USC is worthless but at least there is lip-service paid. That's your position? |
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I look at it like this..We can't fix whats going on with our gov right now..it can't be fixed,it can't be voted right, we could do a convention, but most likely the politicians would use it to screw us over as well... or we can keep going as we are, but due to all the illegals we have lost the ability as conservatives to affect the outcome of gov..its over....sooner or later the global economy is going to collapse..that is what will finish us off.... Our people and our Gov have both lost their morals, and without morals our system will not work......until its far more painful to do wrong then right gov will continue its abuses.... |
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The only way I would ever support a ConCon would be if the 16th Amendment (income tax) was going to be repealed. And the original 10 in the Bill of Rights were off limits, especially the 2A. That's kind of the idea... but this isn't a "ConCon" Convention of States Project |
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The Constitution is nearly perfectly written as is. The only thing needed is for govt to obey it. As much as Obama is changing America from the most properous nation into what? A Constitutional convention would change that document to what? I'd be cool with a sunset provision for all laws. Set Representatives' and Senators' salaries equal to the median income in the US. Some sort of recall process for all elected officials. |
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Those who do not obey gun laws will not obey "more" gun laws.
Those who do not obey constitutional laws will not obey "more" constitutional laws. At best a convention would write more laws to ignore, at worse, it could solidify and make legal what is currently illegal, and endorse things which are presently defined as violations of your rights. Would you prefer your guns are confiscated illegaly and against the language of the bill of rights 1.0, or legally and in accordance with a bill of rights 2.0? |
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BAD MEDICINE ....do NOT fuck with it . Quoted:
BAD MEDICINE ....do NOT fuck with it . any convention would be 100% run by the same idiots running things now..... how do people possibly think that things would work out well for conservatives? it would be balls to the wall liberal feeding frenzy,, their chance to get rid of things they absolutely hate... like the 2nd amendment.... you just think you have seen scandles, and blackmail and bullshit... they would stop at nothing to subvert it... "enemies foreign and domestic" portrays pretty much how it would go..... and i agree..we would lose everything IMHO.. for " diversity".... . Doug smiled wistfully. "It's a long story. To start with, I was drafted. I was going to the University of Maryland, majoring in communications, but I had to drop out after my junior year because I couldn't afford the tuition. Unfortunately I'm just a Category 7--a healthy heterosexual Christian white male. That's the bottom, the baseline. My tuition was tripled with no warning, so that was that. They pulled my student loan and I couldn't get any kind of extension, so I was back at home living with my mom. That made me draft bait--except they call it National Service now."
"The draft is back?" asked Carson. "How's that work? Do they still have college deferments?" "There's a lottery. They can get you anytime between eighteen and twenty-five. College doesn't get you out of it, but it puts it off, and if you're lucky they might not call you up at all." "How long do you have to serve?" "It's supposed to be two years in the military, or three years in the Conservation Corps or the Urban Corps. The CC's quota was already filled for the year--at least that's what they said--and forget the Urban Corps. That's all Jamal Tambor fanatics. We call it the Tambor-Corps. So it was the Army for me. To tell you the truth, I would have picked the Navy or the Air Force, but I didn't get a choice in that either. I did basic training at Fort Dix. Then I was assigned to an engineering battalion at Fort Leonard Wood. So I was already in Missouri when the first earth-quake hit." "What are you, about twenty-four?" "Twenty-five. I thought I'd have my master's degree by now. Well, so much for my plans--Uncle Sam had some other ideas for my future." He went on cleaning his rifle, ramming a small cloth patch on the tip of a metal rod up the inside of the barrel. "Tell me something, Doug. You're obviously a smart guy. I've been out of the country for seven years. What the hell happened to America? I always thought Americans would fight to keep their freedom. What happened? How could Americans just roll over and give up their rights?" "Well, we didn't just 'give up' our rights. It wasn't like that. Not at all. It's more like they were stolen in broad daylight, at the constitutional convention." Carson asked, "How did that happen? I was down in the Caribbean then. American news wasn't so big down there. Panama was going through its own troubles, and I was keeping a low profile. I didn't have cable TV, that's for sure. " "I'll tell you what happened--I watched it happen. When the convention was over, that's when we knew that the old America was gone. It was over. Finished." "The convention was in Philadelphia, right?" Right. I was in Baltimore when it happened, but it was televised wall-to-wall. On television, the talking heads called it the con-con, like it was a big joke or something. Maybe constitutional convention was too hard to spell, or maybe it took them too long to say it. Too many syllables. You know--time is money. I think a lot of the people behind the convention couldn't even pronounce it, much less spell it, so it just became the con-con." "It was two years ago?" "Yeah, two years ago in September. You have to understand how bad things already were, even before the earthquakes, and before the big hurricanes hit the Gulf Coast. Even back then, the economy was so bad that people were calling it the Greater Depression. People were desperate. And not just welfare types--I'm talking about solid middle class citizens. Or formerly middle class, like my family. Nouveau poor, we called it. I think people were ready to try just about anything to get the economy moving. Nothing the government tried was working; everything was in a downward spiral. We were still using blue bucks then, what they called 'New Dollars.' Banks were failing left and right, only the Fed wouldn't let them fail--they pumped in trillions of dollars in new money to keep them open. Nobody wanted to hear that it might take years to unwind the economic mess we were in. That it took us decades to ruin the economy, and it would take a long time to fix it. Everybody wanted a quick fix, like pulling a rabbit out of a magic hat. But everything the president and Congress tried just made things worse. Especially printing so much new money." Doug set his rifle barrel back down on the table and continued. "The country was already a mess, and that was undeniable. Everybody and his brother were proposing constitutional amendments, supposedly to fix the economy, or make everything fair for the poor, or whatever. That's how Congress came up with thirty-four state legislatures calling for amendments. There were seven or eight totally different amendment proposals, but it didn't matter. Once Congress had thirty-four states on record proposing amendments, they went for it. I think they were just waiting for the chance. Once they had thirty-four states, it only took a 51 percent vote in Congress to call for the convention." "Congress? I don't understand. What do they have to do with the convention?" asked Carson. "Everything, under Article Five. It all came down to Article Five of the old constitution. Congress runs the whole show for constitutional conventions." "It does? I didn't know that." "Yeah, well, join the club. That was a major surprise to almost everybody, since it had never happened before. Not in over two hundred years, since it was written. So nobody knew much about Article Five," said Doug. "I guess that changed in a hurry." "You're not kidding. It was shock therapy. Especially when the Poor People's Party marched through Baltimore. There were already about a million of them camping out in Washington on the National Mall before the convention. When they took off walking to Philly, it was like a dam bursting. That was on Labor Day. Mile after mile of people with flags, signs, drums, musical bands on trucks?everything you can imagine. Police cars were escorting them, leading them up I-95. They closed the northbound lanes of 95 for something like twenty miles, for the whole time it took them to walk to Philly. They kept moving that closed section of 95 north, to keep up with the marchers. There was nothing else on television, practically. It took them two days just to get through Baltimore, and when they came through, they spread out like locusts. I was in Baltimore then, back in my mother's house. I'd quit college and gotten my draft notice. I was waiting to report for basic training." Doug took a sip of his instant coffee, and went on. "Naturally, our own locals got into the spirit and joined the march. They took whatever they wanted from any stores along the way, and the police just watched. There was nothing they could do anyway, or it would have caused the biggest riot in history. It was legalized looting, that's all it was. Legalized looting, all over Baltimore. 'Redistributing the wealth,' they called it. We stayed locked in our house and watched it all on television. It would have been suicide to go out and see it in person." "So it was, ah...racially polarized?" asked Carson. "Extremely. Everything was black and white when they came marching through Baltimore. Blacks marching, and whites hiding. I never saw anything like it in my life. Well, not until Memphis, but that was after the earthquakes." Carson asked, "How far is it from Washington to Philly? Two hundred miles?" "That's about right. It took two weeks for them to make it all the way, and when they arrived, the constitutional convention was just starting. Perfect timing. What a coincidence, right? It was all planned in advance, that's obvious now. They held the convention in Philly's new sports arena, the one that was named for a bank. I think that bank is out of business; I don't know what they call it now. The delegates were down on the floor, and the rest of the stands were full of twenty thousand 'spectators.' Yelling and screaming like maniacs?and outside it was worse. They said there were over a million of the Poor People's Party in Philly by then, coming from everywhere, not just Washington. Probably another million just from the Philadelphia area. They were banging on buckets and pans, turning over cars, barricading streets and smashing store windows. They kept interviewing the rabble-rousers on TV--it was like pouring gasoline on fire. 'No Justice, No Peace,' that's all you heard. That was one of the big mantras. They called the looting 'street reparations.' They said if they didn't get the economic justice amendment, they'd burn the city down. It looked like they would, too. Every street in downtown Philly looked like Times Square on New Year's Eve, that's how crowded it was." "Jeez, that had to be pretty rough, with that many people packed into downtown," said Carson. "There couldn't have been enough public bath-rooms." "Almost every store and restaurant was broken open. Needing to use the restrooms was always a good excuse to force their way in. That, and needing food and drinking water. And after that, everything was looted." "And the police didn't stop it?" "They couldn't stop it. How could they?" asked Doug. "The police just stayed back on the edges and tried to herd them. Even that didn't work. A mob that big makes its own rules." "Like a human tidal wave." "Exactly. A human tsunami. So, with that mega-mob outside the arena, you can guess what kinds of radicals were being let in to fill the twenty thousand seats. The real cream of the crop. It was a total farce. That's when they started to call it the 'kangaroo convention' on talk radio. That was back when we still had AM talk radio." Carson asked, "What happened to talk radio?" "Two things. First, a couple of years ago Congress passed the so-called 'fairness' laws. That meant that every point of view on a radio station had to be balanced by another radio host or by other callers from the other side. It got incredibly complicated. They literally had to count how many minutes were said for this and for that on every subject. Trying to keep up with the fairness laws made talk radio a money loser, so most stations went to sports or music. Then Congress passed a law against 'hate speech on the public airwaves.' Anybody could take a radio station to court for just about anything that they claimed was hate speech. They'd cherry-pick a left-wing judge and jury, and it was a slam-dunk every time. After a few million-dollar judgments, the last talk radio stations threw in the towel. Now radio is practically all music and sports, with happy talk in between government PSAs?public service announcements." "This must really be up your alley, if you were majoring in communications." "Yeah, I picked a great time to choose that career path, huh? Now all we get on television and the radio is government propaganda." "I've heard it," said Carson. "We could get Nashville radio at Zack's house at night. So, you were up to the start of the convention." "Right. So to start it off, the Aztlan Coalition said they wouldn't vote for any other amendments unless they got their regional autonomy deal first. That was the Southwestern Justice and Compensation Amendment. That was the first amendment they voted on, and it passed on a voice vote. Next, it was reparations for slavery. Five hundred thousand New Dollars for every African-American man, woman and child. Right after that, it was reparations for 'survivors of the Native American genocide.' Another half million for everybody with Indian blood." "How was that paid?" asked Carson in astonishment. "Where did the money for all of that come from?" "Didn't matter," Doug replied. "It was just instant money from the Treasury--or the Federal Reserve. What's the difference? Ten trillion brand new blue bucks, right out of thin air. The checks came in the mail, or the money was just direct-deposited straight into their bank accounts. It was all just electronic digits, but it was real money just the same. It was just as spendable as any other money." "And that brought on the hyperinflation?" "Among other things, like fraud on a scale never seen before in human history. People were collecting reparation payments right and left under false identities. I think there were about a million double-dippers who claimed they were black and Indian--but it didn't matter. Congress said that the reparations money would stimulate the economy. It would 'prime the pump and even the playing field' at the same time. It was 'the mother of all stimulus packages.' That was another of those cliches you heard all the time. The convention was already way out of control by the time they passed reparations for slavery and the Indians. "Next came the Freedom from Gun Violence Amendment, and that's when the Second Amendment was annulled. So you see, we didn't want any of it. Not regular Americans. We didn't ever vote for it; it was all done at the con-con by mob rule. It was a complete circus by then?the kangaroo convention. But it didn't matter what average Americans thought, the amendments all became law. They became the new constitution. When the Second Amendment was repealed, the delegates in the arena had a mass orgasm. We watched it all on TV. It was surreal, like a bad dream you get after food poisoning." Carson asked, "What did the gun amendment ban?" "Just about every legal firearm that was left. After the Washington Stadium Massacre, the semi-auto rifles were already outlawed. The ones they called assault weapons." "I remember that," said Carson. "I was here for that one." "Well under the Freedom from Gun Violence Amendment, there are no more privately owned handguns, none. Um, except for the police. The police and the military. And no pump or semi-auto shotguns. Only single shot and double-barreled shotguns--and you need to get a federal license to keep one in your house. Oh, and you have to take a federal firearms safety course and pass a background check to get your license. And if they don't like your background--meaning your politics--no license." "Gun control was never about safety: it was just about taking power away from ordinary Americans," said Carson. "It's to make it safe for the police, in a police state." "Exactly. And that wasn't all," continued Doug. "No rifle scopes, only assassins need them, right? No rifles bigger than thirty caliber, period. And all of the bolt- and lever-action rifles have to be licensed and registered, just like the shotguns. Everything that's registered has to be kept in officially approved gun safes, and they're subject to inspection at any time. They even have to be kept disassembled, with the bolts stored separately in another room. And God help you if they come in to inspect and they're not 'properly stored' according to the law. That was another part of the amendment: if you manage to get a gun license, you agree to random 'safety inspections'." "What about ammunition?" "You have to fill out about a yard of paperwork and get police approval to buy a box of hunting ammunition, and then it's taxed at around 500 percent. And you have to turn in your fired brass before you can buy more ammo. Oh, and forget about reloading--that's illegal. You can't even own gunpowder--that's 'bomb-making material' now." "And this was all in the gun amendment?" asked Carson. "Hell, yes. I think the FFGVA is something like thirty pages long." "Damn--the whole Bill of Rights was only a couple hundred words." "I hear you. It took the Founding Fathers four months to write the original constitution. That was in the summer in 1787. Some of the greatest minds in history. The new constitution is about fifty times longer, and they cranked it out in a week. Of course, they shortened it here and there. Like by cutting out most of the Bill of Rights." "And American shooters just went along with it?" Carson asked with a look of incredulity. "No, not most of them. I mean?oh hell, I don't know. I didn't believe any of the polls I read on it. But you'd be amazed by the number of so-called hunters and sportsmen they found to say it was all actually quite reasonable. They were on TV all the time, telling shooters to be reasonable and comply with the new laws. They could still go hunting, and a bit of inconvenience was a small price to pay for public safety." "They can always find sellouts and traitors." "Yessir they can," Doug agreed. "Jamal Tambor was all about reasonable gun laws, until the guns were all gone. But any way you cut it, the Second Amendment was finished, dead and buried after the constitutional convention." Carson sighed, and slowly shook his head. "The end of two centuries of American gun rights." |
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I've said much in Article V threads in favor of the process and the COS application over the past 6 months or so. You guys are probably sick of me. So I have a couple of questions I would like to see answered:
1. Can you describe to me exactly how you think a convention can be hijacked? There are 5 specific actions that have to be taken to get an amendment ratified via convention: (1) at least 34 states must apply for the same amendment or topic, (2) Congress issues a call for a convention setting time and place, (3) at least 50% of the state delegations present at the convention vote to adopt amendment language, (4) congress specifies a mode of ratification, (5) at least 38 state legislatures/ratifying conventions vote to ratify the amendment. How do you see this process getting hijacked? Does some sort of mass hysteria come over the entire nation once a small group of delegates says this is how it's going to be, so shut up and bend over? 2. If the 1787 convention was in fact an illegitimate proceeding, why were all of the delegates not recalled/arrested for treason? Why did ANY of the states ratify the Constitution? They had just fought a lengthy, bloody war to throw off a tyrannical government. Were they too tired/afraid to do anything other than accept another tyrannical assault? |
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Quoted:
I've said much in Article V threads in favor of the process and the COS application over the past 6 months or so. You guys are probably sick of me. So I have a couple of questions I would like to see answered: 1. Can you describe to me exactly how you think a convention can be hijacked? There are 5 specific actions that have to be taken to get an amendment ratified via convention: (1) at least 34 states must apply for the same amendment or topic, (2) Congress issues a call for a convention setting time and place, (3) at least 50% of the state delegations present at the convention vote to adopt amendment language, (4) congress specifies a mode of ratification, (5) at least 38 state legislatures/ratifying conventions vote to ratify the amendment. How do you see this process getting hijacked? Does some sort of mass hysteria come over the entire nation once a small group of delegates says this is how it's going to be, so shut up and bend over? 2. If the 1787 convention was in fact an illegitimate proceeding, why were all of the delegates not recalled/arrested for treason? Why did ANY of the states ratify the Constitution? They had just fought a lengthy, bloody war to throw off a tyrannical government. Were they too tired/afraid to do anything other than accept another tyrannical assault? Can you show all of us the procedures and processes outlined that keeps it from being hijacked? That's the real question.... |
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Quoted: I'd be cool with a sunset provision for all laws. Set Representatives' and Senators' salaries equal to the median income in the US. Some sort of recall process for all elected officials. Quoted: Quoted: The Constitution is nearly perfectly written as is. The only thing needed is for govt to obey it. As much as Obama is changing America from the most properous nation into what? A Constitutional convention would change that document to what? I'd be cool with a sunset provision for all laws. Set Representatives' and Senators' salaries equal to the median income in the US. Some sort of recall process for all elected officials. Those things sound nice but have you noticed the direction of the political winds are blowing? Do you think it is likely to happen? Just in the last election Cycle we had Reps promising to repeal O care, now they were planning to save it if the SC went against it. We also have so called conservatives passing laws they have not read that have been clouded in secrecy and doing so without public consent on a fast track that does not allow debate. Are these the kind of people you want involved in an Art. 5? |
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Can you show all of us the procedures and processes outlined that keeps it from being hijacked? That's the real question.... Quoted:
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I've said much in Article V threads in favor of the process and the COS application over the past 6 months or so. You guys are probably sick of me. So I have a couple of questions I would like to see answered: 1. Can you describe to me exactly how you think a convention can be hijacked? There are 5 specific actions that have to be taken to get an amendment ratified via convention: (1) at least 34 states must apply for the same amendment or topic, (2) Congress issues a call for a convention setting time and place, (3) at least 50% of the state delegations present at the convention vote to adopt amendment language, (4) congress specifies a mode of ratification, (5) at least 38 state legislatures/ratifying conventions vote to ratify the amendment. How do you see this process getting hijacked? Does some sort of mass hysteria come over the entire nation once a small group of delegates says this is how it's going to be, so shut up and bend over? 2. If the 1787 convention was in fact an illegitimate proceeding, why were all of the delegates not recalled/arrested for treason? Why did ANY of the states ratify the Constitution? They had just fought a lengthy, bloody war to throw off a tyrannical government. Were they too tired/afraid to do anything other than accept another tyrannical assault? Can you show all of us the procedures and processes outlined that keeps it from being hijacked? That's the real question.... It's been 234 years in the making. Ever since the Anti-Federalists proposed the BoR. Until that point, the Federal Government only had say on what was enumerated, after that, and through successive court rulings; we now arrive at this point in time where the Federal Government now has the ability to grant itself authority. No longer does the Federal Government have to ask the States for more authority. So no, there are no procedures to prevent a hijacking other then the States calling for a Convention, taking their balls out of the purse in D.C and telling Congress to fuck off. Pick a place and time, choose delegation(each State chooses its delegates) or State Legislature. From that point it is up to the State delegates or Legislature over what happens. Regardless of what happens, it has to go back to the State Legislatures for ratification. If we are at the point were 34 State Legislatures agree to cede more authority to the Federal Government, then the ideals that this country was founded upon, are dead. The States are not sovereign, in fact they are more like districts. IMHO, this is the last gasp of State Sovereignty and Federalism. |
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Read more of what? I have read the United States Constitution in its entirety. I have read the Articles of Confederation, the various Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, personal letters from many founding fathers (i.e. Jefferson), the notes James Madison personally took at the Philadelphia Convneiton, as well as other notes from contemporary sources of that day. Please tell me what more you would recommend reading. Quoted:
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You should read more then. You are wrong. Edit: spelling Read more of what? I have read the United States Constitution in its entirety. I have read the Articles of Confederation, the various Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, personal letters from many founding fathers (i.e. Jefferson), the notes James Madison personally took at the Philadelphia Convneiton, as well as other notes from contemporary sources of that day. Please tell me what more you would recommend reading. Matt Bracken's "Enemies: Foreign and Domestic" trilogy. Its fiction, but it will make your nut sack draw up. The parallels between what he has written and what is going on is ominous. ETA: buck19delta beat me to it but it bears repeating. |
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You watch the news media (democratic operatives with press credentials) orchestrate the wholesale shitting upon free expression on the "flag caused shooting" issue, and your conclusion is to tear open the Constitution in THIS political environment??!!! People are shitting on freedom to thunderous applause! A ConCon would be the end of our republic as we know it. The Repubic died long ago. Today it was taken off life support. |
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Have kids? I do - 6 and 10. I get fear. I'm also on my way to interview a man - also a white-collar professional supporting young children - who was the victim of a federal raid and civil forfeiture. His crime? Trading bitcoins. Since they're legal and it's legal to transact them, he thought he'd make some pocket money out of investing in them. A Fed thought that indicated that he was some sort of counter-culture nogoodnik. He started making a killing but didn't realize it was almost entirely Feds buying the coins. Then they raided his home, seized his funds (which mostly came from them), traumatized his young daughter, stole his wife's personal writing (she's been living with a traumatic brain injury and daily logs are part of her therapy), and generally wrecked his life. The last thing my wife said to me when I left today was, "Don't get in trouble for talking with him." This is the America we live in now. I do not have children but I hope to some day but I think I understand your fear. My current work (and past life) require a close proximity and working relationship with the Internal Revenue Service. I have personally seen the plethora of diverse mechanisms they have at their disposal to categorically obliterate a human being's life (including asset forfeiture). I understand the message you are conveying loudly and clearly. I tread very carefully regarding what I say, what I write, and what I do in my personal and professional life. I have lurked on these forums for the better part of a decade and part of reluctance for joining was that fear your wife related to you. I have seen it and it is real. |
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Matt Bracken's "Enemies: Foreign and Domestic" trilogy. Its fiction, but it will make your nut sack draw up. The parallels between what he has written and what is going on is ominous. ETA: buck19delta beat me to it but it bears repeating. I know of Matt Bracken and have read of his "Enemies: Foreign and Domestic" trilogy however I have not actually read them. Having read the excerpt posted above, I think I will ameliorate that problem post haste. |
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any convention would be 100% run by the same idiots running things now..... how do people possibly think that things would work out well for conservatives? it would be balls to the wall liberal feeding frenzy,, their chance to get rid of things they absolutely hate... like the 2nd amendment.... you just think you have seen scandles, and blackmail and bullshit... they would stop at nothing to subvert it... "enemies foreign and domestic" portrays pretty much how it would go..... and i agree..we would lose everything IMHO.. for " diversity".... . Quoted:
any convention would be 100% run by the same idiots running things now..... how do people possibly think that things would work out well for conservatives? it would be balls to the wall liberal feeding frenzy,, their chance to get rid of things they absolutely hate... like the 2nd amendment.... you just think you have seen scandles, and blackmail and bullshit... they would stop at nothing to subvert it... "enemies foreign and domestic" portrays pretty much how it would go..... and i agree..we would lose everything IMHO.. for " diversity".... . Doug smiled wistfully. "It's a long story. To start with, I was drafted. I was going to the University of Maryland, majoring in communications, but I had to drop out after my junior year because I couldn't afford the tuition. Unfortunately I'm just a Category 7--a healthy heterosexual Christian white male. That's the bottom, the baseline. My tuition was tripled with no warning, so that was that. They pulled my student loan and I couldn't get any kind of extension, so I was back at home living with my mom. That made me draft bait--except they call it National Service now."
"The draft is back?" asked Carson. "How's that work? Do they still have college deferments?" "There's a lottery. They can get you anytime between eighteen and twenty-five. College doesn't get you out of it, but it puts it off, and if you're lucky they might not call you up at all." "How long do you have to serve?" "It's supposed to be two years in the military, or three years in the Conservation Corps or the Urban Corps. The CC's quota was already filled for the year--at least that's what they said--and forget the Urban Corps. That's all Jamal Tambor fanatics. We call it the Tambor-Corps. So it was the Army for me. To tell you the truth, I would have picked the Navy or the Air Force, but I didn't get a choice in that either. I did basic training at Fort Dix. Then I was assigned to an engineering battalion at Fort Leonard Wood. So I was already in Missouri when the first earth-quake hit." "What are you, about twenty-four?" "Twenty-five. I thought I'd have my master's degree by now. Well, so much for my plans--Uncle Sam had some other ideas for my future." He went on cleaning his rifle, ramming a small cloth patch on the tip of a metal rod up the inside of the barrel. "Tell me something, Doug. You're obviously a smart guy. I've been out of the country for seven years. What the hell happened to America? I always thought Americans would fight to keep their freedom. What happened? How could Americans just roll over and give up their rights?" "Well, we didn't just 'give up' our rights. It wasn't like that. Not at all. It's more like they were stolen in broad daylight, at the constitutional convention." Carson asked, "How did that happen? I was down in the Caribbean then. American news wasn't so big down there. Panama was going through its own troubles, and I was keeping a low profile. I didn't have cable TV, that's for sure. " "I'll tell you what happened--I watched it happen. When the convention was over, that's when we knew that the old America was gone. It was over. Finished." "The convention was in Philadelphia, right?" Right. I was in Baltimore when it happened, but it was televised wall-to-wall. On television, the talking heads called it the con-con, like it was a big joke or something. Maybe constitutional convention was too hard to spell, or maybe it took them too long to say it. Too many syllables. You know--time is money. I think a lot of the people behind the convention couldn't even pronounce it, much less spell it, so it just became the con-con." "It was two years ago?" "Yeah, two years ago in September. You have to understand how bad things already were, even before the earthquakes, and before the big hurricanes hit the Gulf Coast. Even back then, the economy was so bad that people were calling it the Greater Depression. People were desperate. And not just welfare types--I'm talking about solid middle class citizens. Or formerly middle class, like my family. Nouveau poor, we called it. I think people were ready to try just about anything to get the economy moving. Nothing the government tried was working; everything was in a downward spiral. We were still using blue bucks then, what they called 'New Dollars.' Banks were failing left and right, only the Fed wouldn't let them fail--they pumped in trillions of dollars in new money to keep them open. Nobody wanted to hear that it might take years to unwind the economic mess we were in. That it took us decades to ruin the economy, and it would take a long time to fix it. Everybody wanted a quick fix, like pulling a rabbit out of a magic hat. But everything the president and Congress tried just made things worse. Especially printing so much new money." Doug set his rifle barrel back down on the table and continued. "The country was already a mess, and that was undeniable. Everybody and his brother were proposing constitutional amendments, supposedly to fix the economy, or make everything fair for the poor, or whatever. That's how Congress came up with thirty-four state legislatures calling for amendments. There were seven or eight totally different amendment proposals, but it didn't matter. Once Congress had thirty-four states on record proposing amendments, they went for it. I think they were just waiting for the chance. Once they had thirty-four states, it only took a 51 percent vote in Congress to call for the convention." "Congress? I don't understand. What do they have to do with the convention?" asked Carson. "Everything, under Article Five. It all came down to Article Five of the old constitution. Congress runs the whole show for constitutional conventions." "It does? I didn't know that." "Yeah, well, join the club. That was a major surprise to almost everybody, since it had never happened before. Not in over two hundred years, since it was written. So nobody knew much about Article Five," said Doug. "I guess that changed in a hurry." "You're not kidding. It was shock therapy. Especially when the Poor People's Party marched through Baltimore. There were already about a million of them camping out in Washington on the National Mall before the convention. When they took off walking to Philly, it was like a dam bursting. That was on Labor Day. Mile after mile of people with flags, signs, drums, musical bands on trucks?everything you can imagine. Police cars were escorting them, leading them up I-95. They closed the northbound lanes of 95 for something like twenty miles, for the whole time it took them to walk to Philly. They kept moving that closed section of 95 north, to keep up with the marchers. There was nothing else on television, practically. It took them two days just to get through Baltimore, and when they came through, they spread out like locusts. I was in Baltimore then, back in my mother's house. I'd quit college and gotten my draft notice. I was waiting to report for basic training." Doug took a sip of his instant coffee, and went on. "Naturally, our own locals got into the spirit and joined the march. They took whatever they wanted from any stores along the way, and the police just watched. There was nothing they could do anyway, or it would have caused the biggest riot in history. It was legalized looting, that's all it was. Legalized looting, all over Baltimore. 'Redistributing the wealth,' they called it. We stayed locked in our house and watched it all on television. It would have been suicide to go out and see it in person." "So it was, ah...racially polarized?" asked Carson. "Extremely. Everything was black and white when they came marching through Baltimore. Blacks marching, and whites hiding. I never saw anything like it in my life. Well, not until Memphis, but that was after the earthquakes." Carson asked, "How far is it from Washington to Philly? Two hundred miles?" "That's about right. It took two weeks for them to make it all the way, and when they arrived, the constitutional convention was just starting. Perfect timing. What a coincidence, right? It was all planned in advance, that's obvious now. They held the convention in Philly's new sports arena, the one that was named for a bank. I think that bank is out of business; I don't know what they call it now. The delegates were down on the floor, and the rest of the stands were full of twenty thousand 'spectators.' Yelling and screaming like maniacs?and outside it was worse. They said there were over a million of the Poor People's Party in Philly by then, coming from everywhere, not just Washington. Probably another million just from the Philadelphia area. They were banging on buckets and pans, turning over cars, barricading streets and smashing store windows. They kept interviewing the rabble-rousers on TV--it was like pouring gasoline on fire. 'No Justice, No Peace,' that's all you heard. That was one of the big mantras. They called the looting 'street reparations.' They said if they didn't get the economic justice amendment, they'd burn the city down. It looked like they would, too. Every street in downtown Philly looked like Times Square on New Year's Eve, that's how crowded it was." "Jeez, that had to be pretty rough, with that many people packed into downtown," said Carson. "There couldn't have been enough public bath-rooms." "Almost every store and restaurant was broken open. Needing to use the restrooms was always a good excuse to force their way in. That, and needing food and drinking water. And after that, everything was looted." "And the police didn't stop it?" "They couldn't stop it. How could they?" asked Doug. "The police just stayed back on the edges and tried to herd them. Even that didn't work. A mob that big makes its own rules." "Like a human tidal wave." "Exactly. A human tsunami. So, with that mega-mob outside the arena, you can guess what kinds of radicals were being let in to fill the twenty thousand seats. The real cream of the crop. It was a total farce. That's when they started to call it the 'kangaroo convention' on talk radio. That was back when we still had AM talk radio." Carson asked, "What happened to talk radio?" "Two things. First, a couple of years ago Congress passed the so-called 'fairness' laws. That meant that every point of view on a radio station had to be balanced by another radio host or by other callers from the other side. It got incredibly complicated. They literally had to count how many minutes were said for this and for that on every subject. Trying to keep up with the fairness laws made talk radio a money loser, so most stations went to sports or music. Then Congress passed a law against 'hate speech on the public airwaves.' Anybody could take a radio station to court for just about anything that they claimed was hate speech. They'd cherry-pick a left-wing judge and jury, and it was a slam-dunk every time. After a few million-dollar judgments, the last talk radio stations threw in the towel. Now radio is practically all music and sports, with happy talk in between government PSAs?public service announcements." "This must really be up your alley, if you were majoring in communications." "Yeah, I picked a great time to choose that career path, huh? Now all we get on television and the radio is government propaganda." "I've heard it," said Carson. "We could get Nashville radio at Zack's house at night. So, you were up to the start of the convention." "Right. So to start it off, the Aztlan Coalition said they wouldn't vote for any other amendments unless they got their regional autonomy deal first. That was the Southwestern Justice and Compensation Amendment. That was the first amendment they voted on, and it passed on a voice vote. Next, it was reparations for slavery. Five hundred thousand New Dollars for every African-American man, woman and child. Right after that, it was reparations for 'survivors of the Native American genocide.' Another half million for everybody with Indian blood." "How was that paid?" asked Carson in astonishment. "Where did the money for all of that come from?" "Didn't matter," Doug replied. "It was just instant money from the Treasury--or the Federal Reserve. What's the difference? Ten trillion brand new blue bucks, right out of thin air. The checks came in the mail, or the money was just direct-deposited straight into their bank accounts. It was all just electronic digits, but it was real money just the same. It was just as spendable as any other money." "And that brought on the hyperinflation?" "Among other things, like fraud on a scale never seen before in human history. People were collecting reparation payments right and left under false identities. I think there were about a million double-dippers who claimed they were black and Indian--but it didn't matter. Congress said that the reparations money would stimulate the economy. It would 'prime the pump and even the playing field' at the same time. It was 'the mother of all stimulus packages.' That was another of those cliches you heard all the time. The convention was already way out of control by the time they passed reparations for slavery and the Indians. "Next came the Freedom from Gun Violence Amendment, and that's when the Second Amendment was annulled. So you see, we didn't want any of it. Not regular Americans. We didn't ever vote for it; it was all done at the con-con by mob rule. It was a complete circus by then?the kangaroo convention. But it didn't matter what average Americans thought, the amendments all became law. They became the new constitution. When the Second Amendment was repealed, the delegates in the arena had a mass orgasm. We watched it all on TV. It was surreal, like a bad dream you get after food poisoning." Carson asked, "What did the gun amendment ban?" "Just about every legal firearm that was left. After the Washington Stadium Massacre, the semi-auto rifles were already outlawed. The ones they called assault weapons." "I remember that," said Carson. "I was here for that one." "Well under the Freedom from Gun Violence Amendment, there are no more privately owned handguns, none. Um, except for the police. The police and the military. And no pump or semi-auto shotguns. Only single shot and double-barreled shotguns--and you need to get a federal license to keep one in your house. Oh, and you have to take a federal firearms safety course and pass a background check to get your license. And if they don't like your background--meaning your politics--no license." "Gun control was never about safety: it was just about taking power away from ordinary Americans," said Carson. "It's to make it safe for the police, in a police state." "Exactly. And that wasn't all," continued Doug. "No rifle scopes, only assassins need them, right? No rifles bigger than thirty caliber, period. And all of the bolt- and lever-action rifles have to be licensed and registered, just like the shotguns. Everything that's registered has to be kept in officially approved gun safes, and they're subject to inspection at any time. They even have to be kept disassembled, with the bolts stored separately in another room. And God help you if they come in to inspect and they're not 'properly stored' according to the law. That was another part of the amendment: if you manage to get a gun license, you agree to random 'safety inspections'." "What about ammunition?" "You have to fill out about a yard of paperwork and get police approval to buy a box of hunting ammunition, and then it's taxed at around 500 percent. And you have to turn in your fired brass before you can buy more ammo. Oh, and forget about reloading--that's illegal. You can't even own gunpowder--that's 'bomb-making material' now." "And this was all in the gun amendment?" asked Carson. "Hell, yes. I think the FFGVA is something like thirty pages long." "Damn--the whole Bill of Rights was only a couple hundred words." "I hear you. It took the Founding Fathers four months to write the original constitution. That was in the summer in 1787. Some of the greatest minds in history. The new constitution is about fifty times longer, and they cranked it out in a week. Of course, they shortened it here and there. Like by cutting out most of the Bill of Rights." "And American shooters just went along with it?" Carson asked with a look of incredulity. "No, not most of them. I mean?oh hell, I don't know. I didn't believe any of the polls I read on it. But you'd be amazed by the number of so-called hunters and sportsmen they found to say it was all actually quite reasonable. They were on TV all the time, telling shooters to be reasonable and comply with the new laws. They could still go hunting, and a bit of inconvenience was a small price to pay for public safety." "They can always find sellouts and traitors." "Yessir they can," Doug agreed. "Jamal Tambor was all about reasonable gun laws, until the guns were all gone. But any way you cut it, the Second Amendment was finished, dead and buried after the constitutional convention." Carson sighed, and slowly shook his head. "The end of two centuries of American gun rights." I think I want to vomit. |