Posted: 3/11/2003 12:50:44 PM EDT
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Do not make it hot!!! I wonder who this Greg fellow is? http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1663&forum=DCForumID32 |
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They locked, then moved it. I posted the new location. I'm VERY VERY surprised at the debate going on there! I thought I'd be bitch slapping soccer moms by now, but there was only post that came close with that "well regulated" comment, but it even had a damn smilie! Is this a new DU i'm looking at? |
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I somewhat suspect that the majority of "pro-gun" members over there are actually operatives. Either way, these people still believe in creating a socialist system in which everybody becomes a financial victim to the underclass and we all are lowered to the status of peon. |
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While I normally get in a rage after checking out DU, I was happy reading their statements there. Even the somewhat anti people were at least being rational. Plus, they seemed to support the sunset of the AWB....or admitted defeat on the issue. I'm kinda giddy. [headbang] |
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For crying out loud, what are you folks trying to accomplish? Moderate the tone of the most radical demoCRAP site on the internet? Just what do you hope to do in the big picture? Make the demoCRAP party more palatable? Change the spots on the leopard? You should be polarizing those assholes at every opportunity, not looking for areas of agreement. Don't give them practice schmoozing gunowners into a false sense of security. Incite their extremism and let them marginalize themselves as the kooks they are. |
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Quoted: For crying out loud, what are you folks trying to accomplish? Moderate the tone of the most radical demoCRAP site on the internet? Just what do you hope to do in the big picture? Make the demoCRAP party more palatable? Change the spots on the leopard? You should be polarizing those assholes at every opportunity, not looking for areas of agreement. Don't give them practice schmoozing gunowners into a false sense of security. Incite their extremism and let them marginalize themselves as the kooks they are. Damn, Arock! I thought you were a bit on the liberal side for this site! guess not. |
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Quoted: If you take a look at 1a2b3c's sig line, you'll see In Memory of ThinkTank, 2616 posts Was ThinkTank the turncoat here a couple months ago? No, ThinkTank was an extremely "progressive" poster who refused to toe Skinner's party line. During the '02 election Skinner (the site admin.) banned anybody who spoke against, or refused to support the Democratic Party because he had some grandiose notion that he could influence the election with his pathetic little website. Same goes for Hamsterdance. |
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I see Paladin hasn't changed his tune. No surprise. Even after I gave him a severe spanking oh, so many months ago he didn't change a whit. Lots of sub-100 post contributors [:D] but there's a pretty good smattering in the high hundreds. As one of them said, "interesting thread." Kinda shocking, eh Balzac? Er, Greg? |
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Arock - win their hearts and minds and their vote will follow. Why divide and pray to conquer when I can educate and reason with them? I'd rather agree with them on this issue than brow beat them. When it comes to politicians, I'll go for the jugular, but for now, i think my style is working. |
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Quoted: Arock - win their hearts and minds and their vote will follow. Why divide and pray to conquer when I can educate and reason with them? I'd rather agree with them on this issue than brow beat them. When it comes to politicians, I'll go for the jugular, but for now, i think my style is working. Have you sufficiently thought that out? You aren't going to convert ONE VOTE of anyone there who's a true DU'er. That's so far from the realm of possibility it's humorous. Those folks are demoCRAPtic true believers. Ever hear of "yellow dog" demoCRAPs? And if you're debating any of us or the Freepers over there you're preaching to the choir. That vote's already in the fold. So why are you trying to take the edge off DU.com? Make it more attractive to OUR PEOPLE?? What BS is that? As a conservative you should be making those people more crazy than they already are. And LESS ATTRACTIVE to anyone who's even close to mainstream. MARGINALIZE them. Push them further out the limb. Make them take more radical positions every chance you get. If DU didn't already exist it would be in our interest to invent it. What's your goal "converting" DU? |
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I admit to reading the DUh thread and having to pause and rub my eyes frequently - some of them appear to get it! Plus, I can't believe how calm "NYCGreg" is behaving. I'd be freaking out left and right (good job!). But I think it's still a little too early to start the big group hug with them yet - let's not forget how many of them prefer Saddam over "the chimp": [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=172516&w=searchPop[/url] "Millions of people around the world are holding up signs with pictures of who - GEORGE W. BUSH - HE is the one considered the most dangerous man in the world at this point in history - not Saddam Hussein!!" "Another thing - If OVERATING Saddam's personality may help avert us going to war - and thereby avert a possible WWIII - I say FINE - LET'S OVERATE THE SHIT OUT OF HIM!! Call him Ghandi, if you like - since it doesn't matter!! He doesn't have the power to be Hitler (nor Bush) no matter how much he MAY wish to be!!" |
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Quoted: Quoted: Arock - win their hearts and minds and their vote will follow. Why divide and pray to conquer when I can educate and reason with them? I'd rather agree with them on this issue than brow beat them. When it comes to politicians, I'll go for the jugular, but for now, i think my style is working. Have you sufficiently thought that out? You aren't going to convert ONE VOTE of anyone there who's a true DU'er. That's so far from the realm of possibility it's humorous. Those folks are demoCRAPtic true believers. Ever hear of "yellow dog" demoCRAPs? And if you're debating any of us or the Freepers over there you're preaching to the choir. That vote's already in the fold. So why are you trying to take the edge off DU.com? Make it more attractive to OUR PEOPLE?? What BS is that? As a conservative you should be making those people more crazy than they already are. And LESS ATTRACTIVE to anyone who's even close to mainstream. MARGINALIZE them. Push them further out the limb. Make them take more radical positions every chance you get. If DU didn't already exist it would be in our interest to invent it. What's your goal "converting" DU? Yes, I have thought it out. I'm making something palatable to them that they normally would dismiss out of hand. Make the argument to them in terms they understand with words that trigger their emotions, such as: the hitler reference, national ID card reference, etc. Make them believe that guns are necessary to fend off the "evil republicans" next step. FUCK, I don't care what rationale they use to like guns, AS LONG AS THEY LIKE THEM! In other areas I'll make them crazy, but you've failed to show how having opposition to us is helpful? Make them look crazy, yet they still vote for their same candidates? How in hell does that help us when it comes time to support gun control positions? Keep in mind I'm not trying to make a bunch of conservatives out of them, I'm not stupid. However, I'll use their language against them so they support the right to bear. As far as marginalizing them and making them look crazier....well in the RTKBA debate, there is no crazy position but our own in the public's opinion. Why do we need assault weapons? What is their purpose for CIVILIANS??? Get it? Their position APPEARS sane, so why not attempt to convert them on this issue when the AW sunset is close to a year away? In the public conscience, we're on the losing team, even if we're politically in a decent position. |
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Quoted: Yes, I have thought it out. I'm making something palatable to them that they normally would dismiss out of hand. Make the argument to them in terms they understand with words that trigger their emotions, such as: the hitler reference, national ID card reference, etc. Make them believe that guns are necessary to fend off the "evil republicans" next step. FUCK, I don't care what rationale they use to like guns, AS LONG AS THEY LIKE THEM! In other areas I'll make them crazy, but you've failed to show how having opposition to us is helpful? Make them look crazy, yet they still vote for their same candidates? How in hell does that help us when it comes time to support gun control positions? Keep in mind I'm not trying to make a bunch of conservatives out of them, I'm not stupid. However, I'll use their language against them so they support the right to bear. As far as marginalizing them and making them look crazier....well in the RTKBA debate, there is no crazy position but our own in the public's opinion. Why do we need assault weapons? What is their purpose for CIVILIANS??? Get it? Their position APPEARS sane, so why not attempt to convert them on this issue when the AW sunset is close to a year away? In the public conscience, we're on the losing team, even if we're politically in a decent position. DU is a weapon in our enemies' camp. It is a weapon we can use against them. A weapon that will benefit us as gunowning conservatives more if used to MARGINALIZE OUR ENEMIES than if blunted, used AGAINST US. And DU will be used against us in the upcoming AW fight. It will NOT stand on the sidelines patiently tapping its foot in the debate. You might ask yourself why the particular thread in question is being allowed to stand? Have you considered you're being played by the DU staff to mitigate your position? DU ain't gonna be our friend when the AW ban comes up in Congress. You can forget about that. The best thing too be done with DU is make them look as silly as possible NOW. And NO I DON'T FOR A MINUTE BELIEVE DU IS MORE MAINSTREAM THAN WE HERE AR AR15.COM. |
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Quoted: Yes, I have thought it out. I'm making something palatable to them that they normally would dismiss out of hand. Make the argument to them in terms they understand with words that trigger their emotions, such as: the hitler reference, national ID card reference, etc. Make them believe that guns are necessary to fend off the "evil republicans" next step. FUCK, I don't care what rationale they use to like guns, AS LONG AS THEY LIKE THEM! Well, Balzac, I'm glad you're over there fighting the good fight. I have spent considerable time over there arguing for RKBA, but less and less recently. If I go to the general forum or latest news forums, I get so bummed out reading the absolutely ridiculous crap that folks there seem to believe. And, I know that the vast majority of them won't be convinced, but I always think that everyone who postes there has friends, and if you influence one person, that they, in turn, may influence others. It snowballs. Hopefully. |
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Arock, what you need to understand is there are two types of Demos. 1. Hardline DUers, who do valuable work acting like complete jackasses. And as you noted, will never be swayed and are only useful as a example of what we are up against. And your assessment of the usefulness and purpose of these members is dead on. 2. Other Democrats who "feel." And it is these that Balzac, and others, are attempting to influence. The key phrase sought, "I guess I can understand how you guys feel, I never thought about guns that way before." And next time they are at the pollling place, in addition to remembering the plight of the red speckelled herring and the impoverished tree people of South America they will also remember those poor Democrats who are also armed for various reasons. And just as they wouldn't take away from the noble tree people, or do anything that might hurt Mr. Speckelled Herring, they sure don't wanna be a "meany" to gun owning Democrats. |
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Quoted: Arock, what you need to understand is there are two types of Demos. 1. Hardline DUers, who do valuable work acting like complete jackasses. And as you noted, will never be swayed and are only useful as a example of what we are up against. And your assessment of the usefulness and purpose of these members is dead on. 2. Other Democrats who "feel." And it is these that Balzac, and others, are attempting to influence. The key phrase sought, "I guess I can understand how you guys feel, I never thought about guns that way before." And next time they are at the pollling place, in addition to remembering the plight of the red speckelled herring and the impoverished tree people of South America they will also remember those poor Democrats who are also armed for various reasons. And just as they wouldn't take away from the noble tree people, or do anything that might hurt Mr. Speckelled Herring, they sure don't wanna be a "meany" to gun owning Democrats. In the eyes of the powers at DU, there are NOT two kinds of demoCRAPS, only party loyalists and everyone else. In the last presidential election, Karl Rove decided it was in the best interest of the Republican Party to write off those areas of the country where the potential for victory was considered so far beyond grasp that the effort required would subvert the cause in more promising areas. For conservative gun owners, DU is such a place. DemoCRAPs who frequent DU don't go there to be converted to conservatism. They go there to have their belief structure reinforced. DU is a refreshing breath of fresh air to internet liberals grown tired of being deconstructed on conservative websites. Any gun-owning demoCRAPs at DU WILL NOT VOTE BASED ON FIREARMS' RIGHTS. If they did that they wouldn't be demoCRAPs in the first place. And you're not going to CHANGE any of those people's vote. Do you seriously believe you can convert ANY demoCRAP who frequents DU by talking about firearms?? That would be delusional. You may rest assured the only people at DU receptive to firearms' rights are not demoCRAPs. And the powers at DU will gladly ban anyone, including other demoCRAPs, who do not toe the party line. Surely you've seen that again and again. So the idea the DU isn't happy be a "meany" to their own political kindred is inoperative. |
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Arock, maybe you are taking my pleasant tone on that board to mean I'm sympathetic to them or like them. Maybe you think I believe that they are moderate. However, those assumptions are wrong. I registered yesterday, i didn't feel like getting banned immediately. However, on my thread, I didn't feel a need to step up with a hard line approach, since most of the people were on my side! Whether you believe that they are our operatives or not, they were still on our side. If you want to talk about the General Forum or other craziness going on there, we have no argument - THEY ARE NUTS! However, my technique isn't to piss on them, its to convert them through the use of their own propaganda and hate for GWB. I won't be able to convert their democrapic beliefs, but I will be able to change their views on the Second Amendment. I'm still surprised that the Dems don't like the 2nd, especially with their civil liberties perspective, which can be very crazy by letting criminals go free. Anyway, if you think I'm doing a bad job in what I'm saying, please let me know. If you don't like my technique, take a back seat and let me work my ways, you might be surprised! We can always piss them off later! |
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Quoted: In the eyes of the powers at DU, there are NOT two kinds of demoCRAPS, only party loyalists and everyone else. Agreed and the idea isn't to convert DU or the hardliners. DU gets lots of lurkers, many of whom are fence sitters. The advantage is twofold: 1. Undecided Demos CAN be swayed. And there absolutely ARE progun Democrats. Many created by Religious Right Republicans. 2. It gives the impression that even among the hardliners there are few ready to champion this cause, putting gun control as a very low priority. Working on the opposition is the most useful thing we can do, short of making the Republican Party more representative of all Americans. |
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Balzac, let's talk about "litmus tests". As you know a political litmus test is a belief that separates one group of supporters from another. Liberal demoCRAPS have for decades succesfully used the abortion issue to divide conservatives. In the last few elections, the issue of firearms was seized by the demoCRAPs as a tool to further divide and conquer the conservative electorate. Being anti-firearms became a cornerstone demoCRAP principal from coast to coast. What did it get them? Republicans now control the Presidency and both houses of Congress nationally and more and more states are aligning themselves with conservative social principles. No small part of this has been due to the demoCRAP position on gun control. IT HAS BEEN A LOSER ISSUE FOR THEM. I LIKE THAT! So why on earth would anyone who believes in the rights of firearms owners want to throw away one of the tools we used to wrest control from "anti-" demoCRAPs?? That's counter-productive. Liberal demoCRAPs chose the tool of being anti-firearms, died by its hand, and now I don't want to surrender the issue by allowing them to walk away unschathed. I WANT TO MAKE THEM DRINK THEIR OWN CUP OF HEMLOCK. I do not want to see DU become more moderate in their opposition to firearms rights. I WANT THEM TO BECOME MORE STRIDENT IN THEIR OPPOSITION. And in doing so shoot themselves in the other foot. |
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Steyr, maybe we see DU in different terms. You want to convert any AVAILABLE demoCRAP voters there. I want to use DU as a whipping boy. Your cause is noble but I think my plan will have more effect at the ballot box. My thought is to make DU as big an ass as possible to use it as a contrast to more conservative arguments. By pushing them further left we as conservatives get more of the "middle" and our position is suddenly more moderate. Now that I've seen DU mentioned at places like Fox, I want to make them the most rigid assholes imaginable. |
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If you'd like to convince yourself that the republicans won all of the elections because of gun rights, I think you're listening too much to the NRA! Our team won because this country was sick of Klinton and his chronies! If you think the RTKBA debate will win elections, you need to do a little more analysis of the way people in this country REALLY feel about guns, because in most cases, there's no public outcry to keep them legal. That doesn't mean people don't want them legal, but I'd wager that a vast majority of voters don't factor that into THEIR vote. Now am I trying to convert voters? NO. I'm trying to see that they don't support their party leaders when it comes time for the AW ban to be reinstated or dropped. Is my goal likely? Probably not, mainly because the demoncraps will do whatever their party says will make the Republican party look bad. If that means supporting a nonsense bill that will make us look like cop/baby/child killers because of our love for AW's, then they'll support it. However, is there a chance I can convert ONE person? DAMN RIGHT! So I'll continue the way I'm going unless you have any suggestions on how to approach them. I also plan on running interferance in other threads as I've done in the past. I know the way you see DU and I share your view. Where we digress is our approach. You'll be creating new accounts everyday, while I'll still be operating under NYCGreg for awhile and building their trust. |
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Balzac, I know living in the Blue Zone has an impact on what you see and hear on a daily basis, but for those of us in the Red Zone firearms rights have more significance. And what's more important, in the Red Zone resides a significant voter base that has historically voted D but is changing to R, and the firearms rights issue plays well to this group. Factor the gun control issue out of the last Presidential election and tell me what the outcome of Florida would be. IF I was posting on DU I would be the most belligerent anti-firearms asshole there. Look for me. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Join and start posting, just make sure you post the threads here for me to read, I'd like to see some belligerantly intelligent threads. Aahhh Balzac, always with the knife... As well as I, you know there can be no intelligent threads permitted on DU. LOL! Didn't think about it like that! |
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Quoted: Steyr, maybe we see DU in different terms. You want to convert any AVAILABLE demoCRAP voters there. I want to use DU as a whipping boy. Your cause is noble but I think my plan will have more effect at the ballot box. To put it in ar15.com terms, GET BOTH. Both plans can run concurrently, in fact they are. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Steyr, maybe we see DU in different terms. You want to convert any AVAILABLE demoCRAP voters there. I want to use DU as a whipping boy. Your cause is noble but I think my plan will have more effect at the ballot box. To put it in ar15.com terms, GET BOTH. Both plans can run concurrently, in fact they are. Related to Deion? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Join and start posting, just make sure you post the threads here for me to read, I'd like to see some belligerantly intelligent threads. Aahhh Balzac, always with the knife... As well as I, you know there can be no intelligent threads permitted on DU. |
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Steyr, my bad. Must be a local thing here. There was a series of television commercials a few years ago featuring Deion Sanders and the owner of the Dallas Plowboys (whose name I REFUSE TO MENTION) that had Deion being presented with a choice of one of two items being advertised and Deion's choice was always to take BOTH choices. Yeah I know, stupid, but it was TV. |