[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First time autocross class tips? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/8/2015 8:21:19 PM EDT
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Going to Evolution Phase 1-2 classes soon. I don't intend to autocross for a living, I just want to be a better driver. I have been to classes at Skip Barber and Bill Scott Racing but with Evo I am going to finally use my car. I do not consider myself a great driver like Sebastien Loeb; if anything I think I need more training.
Any tips? So far this is what I've done: - Car inspected at dealer (everything checked out, including brakes and tires. Tire tread depth is at 9/32", brake pad thickness is 8-9mm) - Fluids changed: oil, brake fluid - New engine and cabin air filters - Full face helmet (I used to ride motorcycles; this one is a Snell 2010 rated helmet so it should be ok) - Spares: engine oil, coolant, distilled water, brake fluid. - Tools: tool kit (including tire depth gauge, tire pressure gauge), air compressor, jump box (to power air compressor), blue painter's tape (car has clear bra but you never know), OBD2 reader. - All natural fiber clothing, flat-soled sneakers - Notebook and pen, sunscreen, hat, plastic tarp, folding chair, water and snacks. - Plenty of motion sickness medication 
I'm driving quite a distance (around 200 miles) to get to the class so I am staying overnight at a hotel near the event. I hope my car is ok to drive home; if anything I will go straight to a diner after the last class to let my car cool down before hitting the road to drive home. If I cord the tires I am actually okay with that because I don't really like my OEM tires (all-season Dunlop SP Sport Maxx AS1). This will be a good excuse to get some Michelin Pilot Super Sports on my car after the OEM ones wear down. Thanks in advance. |
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Nobody does autocross? I thought everybody in GD drove Ferrari 599XX's (paid in cash, I'm sure)? OEM tires suck, you will want to change them. If they allow passengers find the fast guy and ride with him and ask him to ride with you. Other than that, have fun and don't hit the timing light 
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Did my first one last year.
-Take everything that is loose out of the car. Everything, including and especially floor mats. -Check your tire pressures before you get out on the course. -Have fun! It's a blast. If my back were better I'd be doing it again this year. Good stuff here: https://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm Just a thought. If you can swing it, I'd think about a AAA membership. The one that gets you free towing for up to 150 or 200 miles, whatever it is. Just in case. I don't think you'll have problems, but you never know. |
| Start with tires overinflated (approx 45-50 lbs), as it allows you to adjust tire pressure...BTW chalk the outside edge of the tires to see how far they are rolling over.... Remember that tire pressure will go down as the car sits and heat rapidly when going around the course... keep checking pressure and adding/subtracting as necessary.... Maybe take out spare tire and jack (less weight)... |
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Just FYI motorcycle helmets are different than car helmets. Car helmets are made to absorb numerous small impacts where motorcycle helmets are made to take one large impact I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. |
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I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. Quoted:
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Just FYI motorcycle helmets are different than car helmets. Car helmets are made to absorb numerous small impacts where motorcycle helmets are made to take one large impact I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. For Automotive use I always prefer SA rated helmets, since that denotes a flame-resistant lining material (motorcycle helmets don't need this  )
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I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. Quoted:
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Just FYI motorcycle helmets are different than car helmets. Car helmets are made to absorb numerous small impacts where motorcycle helmets are made to take one large impact I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. SCCA competition still accepts Snell 2005. The 2015 Snell ratings won’t be out until fall 2015. He is fine with his helmet. |
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slow is fast, late apex, cones are two seconds.
be sure and walk the course, multiple times if you have time, imagining where you're going to be placing your car on the course. get a ride along with one of the seasoned vets during an earlier heat if you can to get a feel for where to be braking, turning in, etc. most importantly, don't take it too seriously and have fun. |
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Sorry for the delay, been a long day at work.
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What kind of car? I've always wanted to take a class like that  I'm using my daily driver, which has me a bit worried. I kinda need the car to get to work so I hope I don't damage it.
My sole car is a Infiniti G37x coupe. It does not have the sport package, so I am a bit worried about brake fade and handling (the sport package comes with bigger brakes, and upgraded suspension/calipers, as well as a limited slip diff). Our roads in PA are really bad so I don't regret foregoing the sport package -- otherwise my teeth would be shaken out and I'd be cracking a wheel every year. I'm sure my car will be outclassed by more track-ready cars but I hope what Clint Smith (of Thunder Ranch) says holds true -- any [gun/car] will do, if you will do. ETA: my car is an automatic, rear-biased AWD |
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OEM tires suck, you will want to change them. If they allow passengers find the fast guy and ride with him and ask him to ride with you. Other than that, have fun and don't hit the timing light
Hehe, I hear ya on the OEM tires. I am actually looking forward to putting more wear on the OEM all-seasons that came with my car so I can upgrade to true summer tires like the Michelin Pilot Super Sports. I run performance winter tires from Thanksgiving through Tax Day every year so I am ok during the cold season. I figure this class will put a ton of wear on the OEM tires (Dunlop SP Sport Maxx AS1s) so as long as I am legal to drive home (I'll check the tire depth before leaving), I should be ok. My OEM tires only have 7,000 miles on them so they are not worn down at all ... dealer said I have 9/32" tread. |
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Did my first one last year. -Take everything that is loose out of the car. Everything, including and especially floor mats. -Check your tire pressures before you get out on the course. -Have fun! It's a blast. If my back were better I'd be doing it again this year. Good stuff here: https://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm Just a thought. If you can swing it, I'd think about a AAA membership. The one that gets you free towing for up to 150 or 200 miles, whatever it is. Just in case. I don't think you'll have problems, but you never know. Thanks for the link. That was very informative, especially the part about etiquette. I am a complete newbie at this; the classes at BSR and Skip Barber did not address those things. I have read multiple times about removing the floor mats. Do they really move around that much? I have WeatherTech mats so they are anchored, but I will remove them anyway. It's going to be bright and sunny so I'm not going to track mud into my car. I have AAA Plus. I get 100 mile tows. I am 200+ miles away from home so I hope I don't need it this time around! 
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Ride with a fast driver and get a fast driver to ride with you. Or an instructor. Remember when visualizing the track - there are no cones on auto cross track. The track goes between the cones. Do not concentrate on the cones. Smooth is fast. R888s rock. I'm actually taking the Evolution Phase 1 and Phase 2 classes so I am hoping to learn a lot. I am a bit apprehensive about taking the classes in succession. I have read on some forums that folks say you should not take Phase 2 immediately after Phase 1; they say you should let Phase 1 sink in for a few months and put the techniques into practice and then go back for Phase 2. I will see what happens; I wanted to make this a long weekend vacation full of driving so I signed up for two classes. I am happy being the slowest guy in the class on both days if I am learning something. |
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For Automotive use I always prefer SA rated helmets, since that denotes a flame-resistant lining material (motorcycle helmets don't need this )
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Just FYI motorcycle helmets are different than car helmets. Car helmets are made to absorb numerous small impacts where motorcycle helmets are made to take one large impact I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. For Automotive use I always prefer SA rated helmets, since that denotes a flame-resistant lining material (motorcycle helmets don't need this )
Yeah I would have bought an automotive helmet but as I have been a Class M holder since the mid 1990s, I never know if I will find myself on another motorcycle. I always wear full face helmets while riding motorcycles. It was actually fun to buy another motorcycle helmet; it's been way too long since I have been on two wheels. I went to the local Revzilla store and bought a Shoei RF1200 in anthracite gray. It will be a bit less ventilated than an open-faced car helmet but I will just leave the visor open. One thing -- I wore my helmet in my car and the rear headrest is making my head tilt a bit more forward than I'd like. I doubt the instructors will let me remove the headrest .. or will they? |
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Swap out your pads for a street/strip pad. A cheap or even quality street pad will fade badly during aggressive driving and a race pad is dangerous for daily driving. Something like a Hawk HP+ or an EBC yellow stuff will do nicely. Yeah I am definitely considering that upgrade. A lot of the guys on MyG37.com say the same thing. I don't have the Sport (Akebono) big brake kit so I figure the easiest way to get better performance is a better pad. I will probably get some serious brake fade with the "stock" brakes but that can't be helped now. I had the dealer flush the brake system and am bringing an extra bottle of brake fluid just to be safe. |
I autocrossed my lifted 4wd Toyota Tundra with off-road tires (non sanctioned event) 
I massacred me some cones, my tires, and had lots of fun. I got lots of rides with more legit drivers just by bullshiting in the pits. Just show up willing to learn and absorb everything, and have fun with it. I'm no autocrosser, but that's from my 2 wheel race experience. |
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I have done autocross and won . EP in a heavily modified Datsun 510 on slicks . First sticky tires . without them you will never be even mid pack. To get started buy some take offs . negative camber is your friend on most SCCA short courses . I have done longer events non scca that were 2 minutes a run some of those involved speeds over 100 mph. The SCCA used to run Solo 1 for those events . I think SOLO 1 is dead.
Things you need Grippy tires Snell Car rated helmet within the last 5 years , The ratings are updated every 5 years tight seat belts . If you are hanging on you can not go as fast a lot of negative camber in the front and a 1/16 toe in . check tire temps with a probe and not a digital gun stiff as you can buy sway bars Limited slip diff even if FWD . Take everything extra out of the car, spare tire jack and all . when you buy aftermarket wheels the most important number is weight . Go watch an event and look at what wins the class you are in . Your car may not be competitive . The SCCA used to do autocross drivers schools in most regions . I read your replies ,You will need a set of dedicated autocross tires , depending on the course brakes may not be an issue , most race oriented pads do not stop well cold and most events frown on you warming the brakes in the parking lot . Your car is heavy |
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Have fun, get there early and BS around with folks and I'm sure someone would be into helping you out and giving you tips, go on as many ride-alongs as you can.
I would skip the motion sickness medication, dramamine makes me feel all slow-motion-delayed-response-weird-in-the-brain. |
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You aren't going to use most of that stuff once you pass Tech. But bring it anyway. You'll pare it down over time and experience. Strip the car. NOTHING loose. NOTHING. That includes floor mats. Everything out of the trunk. If it isn't fastened to the car - it goes. Only as much fuel as you need and then a little more. Its not about hardware. Its about the driver. Work on your vision - that is - do not drop your vision. Walk the course if you get the chance. Do a ride-along if you can. Hands at 3 & 9. Do not shuffle steer. You will probably over-brake - but thats okay. Adjust tire pressures COLD only. Measure hot and adjust cold for your hot target. Do not over-drive. Don't look at anything you don't want to hit. Don't forget to have a good time. When you receive coaching - focus on no more than 2-3 skills. Once those are improved - then diversify skill practice. |
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Besides the great advice above, here's some thoughts. Learn the track. avoid your car's weaknesses. Ex. If it Pushes, brake early and power out of the corners. play to it's strengths. Ex. If it's neutral/loose, use the rearend to rotate the car. your car can corner faster than you're used to, if you do it right. Practice in an open lot somewhere. You'll be surprised how hard it can turn at relatively low speeds. be confident And agressive. Smooth is fast, but fast is faster, IME. Start with 45 pounds in all 4 tires. Good starting point. Once you decide you like it, get some DOT legal race tires. Whole different ballgame, still stock. stay in the stock classes. Mod is expensive and frustrating. You're not going to beat the Miatas. Ever. I preferred open face helmets. Easier to see. don't get frustrated when you fuck up. Everyone fucks up. It's a damn sea of cones! Have fun! |
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Adding. You don't need anything for the first two days of instruction. Just learn to drive, any car will do.
I've done a couple LE pursuit courses, a bunch of PSD and anti-terr driving courses, track days, etc and the auto cross courses. I think the evo course is something everyone should do every year. But you don't actually have to do it in your own car to learn. Just something close. |
Being slow and clean is worth a lot over hitting a cone and being fast . Watch a lot . You will get to work the course , It gives you a great chance to learn. But realize you don't have a ton in common with something like a GTI . I saw this brought up and will address it . I worked at Hertz rent a car in the 80's when I first started autocrossing . I often saw our cars at events . Guys would rent a car that fell well in a stock class . V-6 Firebirds were popular . make sure the oil level is maxed , as for fuel at least 1/4 tank preferably half you can fuel starve in a hard corner. fuel weighs 6.06 pounds a gallon. If your car is new and under warranty be aware this will void your warranty . There are cases were manufacturers deny warrant for autocross events . I have seen it first hand for a guy who lunched a Mitsubishi Evo 8. 
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Autocrossing isn't too hard on the car, unless you think you are a drift king (if so, bring a set of wheels and tires).
Walk the course as many times as you can and memorize it entirely. Sit and plan how you will best negotiate each turn. Go out and do it! Watch the in car video and see how close your execution was to your plan. |
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OEM tires suck, you will want to change them. If they allow passengers find the fast guy and ride with him and ask him to ride with you. Other than that, have fun and don't hit the timing light
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/truck/trackin.jpg Quoted:
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Nobody does autocross? I thought everybody in GD drove Ferrari 599XX's (paid in cash, I'm sure)? OEM tires suck, you will want to change them. If they allow passengers find the fast guy and ride with him and ask him to ride with you. Other than that, have fun and don't hit the timing light
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/truck/trackin.jpg I hate Dakotas. I hate lowered Dakotas even more. I really, really like yours. Nice truck. Do you get kind of looked at funny bringing a truck to an autocross? Been thinking about giving it a shot in my Tacoma (X-Runner). |
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You aren't going to fade your brakes. Autocross never sees more than 4 seconds of braking zone at a time and the course is only about a minute long. It just won't happen.
I would caution against the Pilot Super Sports only because they are stupid expensive and aren't that much faster than a Sumitomo HTR Z III which are CHEAP. Provided of course the HTRZ (heaters) come in your size. Also keep in mind that if you are on anything over a 200 treadwear tire, you aren't seriously looking for times anyway. At autocross the driver accounts for 95% of the lap time. The cars setup doesn't even come into play until you are truly competent. Don't sit there and chase tire pressures around during the event. Pressure changes that you intend to make to "see how it feels" should be made before an event and not during. You aren't on track enough to make good judgements about 1-2 psi changes between runs. You can make on track changes once you have solid data to work off of. No different than a DOPE sheet. The only change you should make during the event is to raise pressures if you are damaging the sidewall. This happened to me when trying to use the same pressures on my new tires as I did on my old. Bad joojoo. You should however, set your pressures cold that morning BEFORE YOU DRIVE TO THE EVENT. I do this by over inflating the night before and bleeding down in the morning. Simply check and record your pressures throughout the day. I keep a record of ambient temp when I set my pressures in the morning and ambient temp at the middle of the event. You will eventually start to see some correlation between ambient temp, pressures and the cars behavior. If you pay close attention, you will notice different pressures between sunny and overcast days as the surface temperature changes. You will also notice that local club events run differently than SCCA events. SCCA events usually ask for slightly higher cold pressures because you sit in grid cooling off much longer between runs. Fuel level is debated. At this point in your autocross hobby just forget about it. It won't matter that much. Just don't starve the motor. |
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I have read multiple times about removing the floor mats. Do they really move around that much? I have WeatherTech mats so they are anchored, but I will remove them anyway. It's going to be bright and sunny so I'm not going to track mud into my car. It's a matter of risk management. The worst that can happen if your floor mats move is that you can't depress the brake pedal. The best way to manage that risk is to remove them. Some clubs won't allow them to be in the car at the time of tech inspection anyway. |
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Quoted: It's a matter of risk management. The worst that can happen if your floor mats move is that you can't depress the brake pedal. The best way to manage that risk is to remove them. Some clubs won't allow them to be in the car at the time of tech inspection anyway. Quoted: Quoted: I have read multiple times about removing the floor mats. Do they really move around that much? I have WeatherTech mats so they are anchored, but I will remove them anyway. It's going to be bright and sunny so I'm not going to track mud into my car. It's a matter of risk management. The worst that can happen if your floor mats move is that you can't depress the brake pedal. The best way to manage that risk is to remove them. Some clubs won't allow them to be in the car at the time of tech inspection anyway. |
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Be a real man and do HPDE events. http://www.tracknightinamerica.com/ thats just one group for starters...Chin motorsports, Jzilla Track days, iTrack motorsports, etc. You'll never autocross again after you get out on a real track. All true, but the problem with doing real track days with your only vehicle is that the potential is there to total your car. Cones in a parking lot don't usually bite too hard. |
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Quoted: I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. Quoted: Quoted: Just FYI motorcycle helmets are different than car helmets. Car helmets are made to absorb numerous small impacts where motorcycle helmets are made to take one large impact I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. SCCA allows Snell M2010 and M2015 as a minimum (10 Year rule). Most Autocrossers and Rallycrossers use them because they are cheaper. If you decide to stick with it for a while, you might step up to an SA2010 or SA2015 next time. They have additional flame resistance and other features like Mic mounting, HANS mounting, etc. If you have done other schools you will be fine at EVO. They expect everything from total noobs to seasoned hobbyists. You should see if you can google up their class slides to read ahead of time, just so you're not trying to absorb the written material at the same time as the spoken. Wear comfortable clothing, bring sunscreen, stay hydrated and have fun. The others have covered the basics like tire pressure and safety, but if you have any detailed questions I'm sure we can come up with a few answers. I'm an SCCA registered Safety Steward, so I have to be one of the safety nazis at our local events. |
Get a set of these eventually. Spendy, but awesome! BF Goodrich G-Force R1 DOT-legal race tires |
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Get a set of these eventually. Spendy, but awesome!
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=75186 BF Goodrich G-Force R1 DOT-legal race tires Just need a hitch on your G37 to haul them around so you don't burn them off driving home
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SCCA allows Snell M2010 and M2015 as a minimum (10 Year rule). Most Autocrossers and Rallycrossers use them because they are cheaper. If you decide to stick with it for a while, you might step up to an SA2010 or SA2015 next time. They have additional flame resistance and other features like Mic mounting, HANS mounting, etc. If you have done other schools you will be fine at EVO. They expect everything from total noobs to seasoned hobbyists. You should see if you can google up their class slides to read ahead of time, just so you're not trying to absorb the written material at the same time as the spoken. Wear comfortable clothing, bring sunscreen, stay hydrated and have fun. The others have covered the basics like tire pressure and safety, but if you have any detailed questions I'm sure we can come up with a few answers. I'm an SCCA registered Safety Steward, so I have to be one of the safety nazis at our local events. Quoted:
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Just FYI motorcycle helmets are different than car helmets. Car helmets are made to absorb numerous small impacts where motorcycle helmets are made to take one large impact I think the Snell 2010 is the standard that SOLO is allowing this year. So while they may be made differently, the sanctioning body allows it. SCCA allows Snell M2010 and M2015 as a minimum (10 Year rule). Most Autocrossers and Rallycrossers use them because they are cheaper. If you decide to stick with it for a while, you might step up to an SA2010 or SA2015 next time. They have additional flame resistance and other features like Mic mounting, HANS mounting, etc. If you have done other schools you will be fine at EVO. They expect everything from total noobs to seasoned hobbyists. You should see if you can google up their class slides to read ahead of time, just so you're not trying to absorb the written material at the same time as the spoken. Wear comfortable clothing, bring sunscreen, stay hydrated and have fun. The others have covered the basics like tire pressure and safety, but if you have any detailed questions I'm sure we can come up with a few answers. I'm an SCCA registered Safety Steward, so I have to be one of the safety nazis at our local events. Most real tracks do not allow M series helmets....just make sure if you are going to do HPDE that you get a proper auto helmet. |
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All true, but the problem with doing real track days with your only vehicle is that the potential is there to total your car. Cones in a parking lot don't usually bite too hard. Quoted:
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Be a real man and do HPDE events. http://www.tracknightinamerica.com/ thats just one group for starters...Chin motorsports, Jzilla Track days, iTrack motorsports, etc. You'll never autocross again after you get out on a real track. All true, but the problem with doing real track days with your only vehicle is that the potential is there to total your car. Cones in a parking lot don't usually bite too hard. I agree with you to a certain extend. Starting off in Group D with other begginners and an instructor in the car with you isn't too bad. You'll only wreck the car if you get too over confident. 
HPDE can be fun as crap. I'll never set foot at an autox event. There's nothing wrong (if you're scared of totaling) in running in group d going nice and slow. In all honesty driving in group D going slow around a track is probbaly more fun than running an autox event. Also, there is HPDE insurance to fully insure your car in case something goes wrong. I know i know i'm pushy and its all IMO....but it just pains me to see people who love autox but have never tried HPDE. |
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Quoted: Just need a hitch on your G37 to haul them around so you don't burn them off driving home Quoted: Quoted: Get a set of these eventually. Spendy, but awesome!http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=75186 BF Goodrich G-Force R1 DOT-legal race tires Just need a hitch on your G37 to haul them around so you don't burn them off driving home Every once in a while, I'd drive to the event on them. Made for some fun on-ramp/off-ramp hijinx.My E-Mod car (Scirocco) rode on a trailer. |
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Quoted: All true, but the problem with doing real track days with your only vehicle is that the potential is there to total your car. Cones in a parking lot don't usually bite too hard. Quoted: Quoted: Be a real man and do HPDE events. http://www.tracknightinamerica.com/ thats just one group for starters...Chin motorsports, Jzilla Track days, iTrack motorsports, etc. You'll never autocross again after you get out on a real track. All true, but the problem with doing real track days with your only vehicle is that the potential is there to total your car. Cones in a parking lot don't usually bite too hard. That last part isn't true at all. Of the 3 top competitors in my region for Solo, one races SCCA Spec Miata, one races ChumpCar/Lemons, and one races Porsche Club. They all claim that the slow course helps to hone your short game. Also, like RDTCU said, it is exceedingly hard to leave your car shiny side down at an Autocross, but I've had to help several friends put their cars back together who thought they were going to be the next great touge warrior at an HPDE track day only to find out the hard way why there is a wall of tires on the outside of the turns... |
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I hate Dakotas. I hate lowered Dakotas even more. I really, really like yours. Nice truck. Do you get kind of looked at funny bringing a truck to an autocross? Been thinking about giving it a shot in my Tacoma (X-Runner). Quoted:
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Nobody does autocross? I thought everybody in GD drove Ferrari 599XX's (paid in cash, I'm sure)? OEM tires suck, you will want to change them. If they allow passengers find the fast guy and ride with him and ask him to ride with you. Other than that, have fun and don't hit the timing light
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/brett6485/truck/trackin.jpg I hate Dakotas. I hate lowered Dakotas even more. I really, really like yours. Nice truck. Do you get kind of looked at funny bringing a truck to an autocross? Been thinking about giving it a shot in my Tacoma (X-Runner). Thanks, it has been a fun truck. As for funny looks, not really, different tends to peak interest so I usually just got lots of questions and requests for rides. I don't race it anymore, lack of time and money, but it used to do pretty good. It has a full Hotckis suspension and with the CCW rims wrapped in 295/35/19 on all four it supprised lots of people. I would definitely take out the X-Runner, if you are smooth and fast in a truck you will only be quicker in a car! From the same event: 
And my other track car that I wish I never sold 
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