[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fight! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/23/2015 11:18:17 PM EDT
| Is boxing the best to learn for self defense? I say yes. |
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight.
Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. |
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. +1 for BJJ and boxing. |
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. |
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Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. This. Do it right and your opponent will be on the ground. |
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Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. Quoted:
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No Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. But that's not a fight. That's a scuffle. |
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Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. Quoted:
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No Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. You assume a fight is going to come at you from the front each time? Your goal is to protect yourself and get out of that situation, not call out the bully from 5th period math to a slug fest. |
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But that's not a fight. That's a scuffle. Quoted:
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No Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. But that's not a fight. That's a scuffle. A good boxer can have a fight over with pretty fast. |
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Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Fights go to the ground because the guy that controls it wins on the ground. People that think like you are the types that enjoy starting fights, the average person wants no part of it unless in a practice ring. |
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This. Do it right and your opponent will be on the ground. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. This. Do it right and your opponent will be on the ground. Not in my experience. In MMA, I fought severl guys who had backgrounds in boxing and once they were on the ground it was over. Now, I understand this was also in training, but wrestlers always do well and you have to be a GREAT boxer to keep a half way decent wrestler off you. Hell, look at UFC - boxing is good to know, but ground skills are critical to be successful. ETA - I will admit that getting hit by a boxer is a world of difference than just getting hit by your average joe. If I tried to stand with a boxer, I got my ass kicked every time.  A boxer with some wrestling experience or takedown defense could be dangerous in your average street fight.
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Fights go to the ground because the guy that controls it wins on the ground. People that think like you are the types that enjoy starting fights, the average person wants no part of it unless in a practice ring. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Fights go to the ground because the guy that controls it wins on the ground. People that think like you are the types that enjoy starting fights, the average person wants no part of it unless in a practice ring. If a guy in a fight can control it from his feet it isn't going to the ground. I enjoy going to the gym and boxing, I also enjoy getting in the ring on open fight night. Saying I like going out and starting fights is kind of a fucked up thing for you to say. |
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If a guy in a fight can control it from his feet it isn't going to the ground. I enjoy going to the gym and boxing, I also enjoy getting in the ring on open fight night. Saying I like going out and starting fights is kind of a fucked up thing for you to say. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Fights go to the ground because the guy that controls it wins on the ground. People that think like you are the types that enjoy starting fights, the average person wants no part of it unless in a practice ring. If a guy in a fight can control it from his feet it isn't going to the ground. I enjoy going to the gym and boxing, I also enjoy getting in the ring on open fight night. Saying I like going out and starting fights is kind of a fucked up thing for you to say. There you go, starting a fight again. |
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There you go, starting a fight again. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Fights go to the ground because the guy that controls it wins on the ground. People that think like you are the types that enjoy starting fights, the average person wants no part of it unless in a practice ring. If a guy in a fight can control it from his feet it isn't going to the ground. I enjoy going to the gym and boxing, I also enjoy getting in the ring on open fight night. Saying I like going out and starting fights is kind of a fucked up thing for you to say. There you go, starting a fight again. Maybe those of us outside New York still have a bit of fight left in us. |
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Not in my experience. In MMA, I fought severl guys who had backgrounds in boxing and once they were on the ground it was over. Now, I understand this was also in training, but wrestlers always do well and you have to be a GREAT boxer to keep a half way decent wrestler off you. Hell, look at UFC - boxing is good to know, but ground skills are critical to be successful. ETA - I will admit that getting hit by a boxer is a world of difference than just getting hit by your average joe. If I tried to stand with a boxer, I got my ass kicked every time. A boxer with some wrestling experience or takedown defense could be dangerous in your average street fight.Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. This. Do it right and your opponent will be on the ground. Not in my experience. In MMA, I fought severl guys who had backgrounds in boxing and once they were on the ground it was over. Now, I understand this was also in training, but wrestlers always do well and you have to be a GREAT boxer to keep a half way decent wrestler off you. Hell, look at UFC - boxing is good to know, but ground skills are critical to be successful. ETA - I will admit that getting hit by a boxer is a world of difference than just getting hit by your average joe. If I tried to stand with a boxer, I got my ass kicked every time. A boxer with some wrestling experience or takedown defense could be dangerous in your average street fight.A good ground strategy is critical in the real world. I have to drive all the way to lexington to get into a good dojo, but I think it's worth it. However it definitely takes a background role to boxing. |
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I'd say it completely depends on who you intend to fight. Boxing is fine to keep the drunk loud mouthed yokels at bay and otherwise generally being able to scare away the mouthy blowhards. Come across someone with a bit of ground skills and you're going to have a rough go at it.
The reason it seems most fights end up on the ground is because people dont know how to fight. Anyone who does obviously fights to their strengths....Boxers in a stand up game and wrestlers in a ground game. Both are equally good at winning a fight, but specializing in one leaves you with a gaping hole to be exploited. I'd say if you have NO training to start with a ground game. You can always (Well, almost) move a fight to the ground. Once you have a basic ground game then add boxing to the mix. Trust me, you find a wrestler and if he sees you go into a boxing stance you'll have one chance so make it count, otherwise hes going to take you down and wrap you up like a Christmas present. That said, I'm too goddamned old for either, so I go with the "walk way" fighting style. |
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I'd say it completely depends on who you intend to fight. Boxing is fine to keep the drunk loud mouthed yokels at bay and otherwise generally being able to scare away the mouthy blowhards. Come across someone with a bit of ground skills and you're going to have a rough go at it. The reason it seems most fights end up on the ground is because people dont know how to fight. Anyone who does obviously fights to their strengths....Boxers in a stand up game and wrestlers in a ground game. Both are equally good at winning a fight, but specializing in one leaves you with a gaping hole to be exploited. I'd say if you have NO training to start with a ground game. You can always (Well, almost) move a fight to the ground. Once you have a basic ground game then add boxing to the mix. Trust me, you find a wrestler and if he sees you go into a boxing stance you'll have one chance so make it count, otherwise hes going to take you down and wrap you up like a Christmas present. That said, I'm too goddamned old for either, so I go with the "walk way" fighting style. From what I have seen somebody who has boxed for a year and kept up with it is going to turn a wrestler who has done the same for the same amount of time into a bag of smashed assholes in short order. Hard to get that take down if you can't stop getting punched in the face and lungs. After a year of boxing you add in BJJ and you are going to do just fine. |
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I wrestled some in college. I boxed some in college. But I played a LOT of football. One of the best skills I learned was how NOT to get tackled. Sometimes it is with brute force. Sometimes it is with speed. Most times it involves a degree of both. I`m 60. WAY to old to fight. Smart enough to avoid the ones I used to enjoy. BUT,,,I can tell you that a forearm to the face will stop most folks cold. It will at least get you the milliseconds you need to really hurt the guy. I was trained that "where the head goes the body will follow". I`ve seen 160 pounders just absolutely destroy 250 pounders.
I need a nap now. |
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I boxed for years and loved it. MMA stuff is great too. The more skills you can learn, the better. The last place you want to be in a street fight is on the ground. What good is controlling the ground when your opponent's friends will just swarm you and turn you into a vegetable by kicking/stomping you into oblivion?
In a street fight stay on your feet so you can fight or run. Your brain is your best weapon. |
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Quoted: Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. Quoted: Quoted: No Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. Boxing is a sport/art. The ones that rely on it solely in a street fight though are doing themselves a disadvantage. Knowing how to throw hands is important but for self defense I'd much prefer something along the lines of Krav Maga. They do not teach our military to Box in hand to hand combat classes for a reason. |
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Quoted: But that's not a fight. That's a scuffle. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No Why? Would you rather roll around on the ground with a guy while his friends kick your face out of the back of your head? That sounds much better than dodging a sucker punch and shooting a few back and clearing out. But that's not a fight. That's a scuffle. Or was it a brouhaha? Fisticuffs? Contretemps? |
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JJ is .more suited to 1v1. If you're worried about multiple attackers Judo is where it's at. Combine your throws with some kicks, punches, and elbows, you can make for an easy get away Could you expound on the history of jujitsu and judo along with a brief description of the techniques of each? |
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Could you expound on the history of jujitsu and judo along with a brief description of the techniques of each? Quoted:
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JJ is .more suited to 1v1. If you're worried about multiple attackers Judo is where it's at. Combine your throws with some kicks, punches, and elbows, you can make for an easy get away Could you expound on the history of jujitsu and judo along with a brief description of the techniques of each? He is reading about it on the Internets right now. Because he has no fucking clue what he just said. |
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He is reading about it on the Internets right now. Because he has no fucking clue what he just said. Quoted:
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JJ is .more suited to 1v1. If you're worried about multiple attackers Judo is where it's at. Combine your throws with some kicks, punches, and elbows, you can make for an easy get away Could you expound on the history of jujitsu and judo along with a brief description of the techniques of each? He is reading about it on the Internets right now. Because he has no fucking clue what he just said. I think the UFC and the trend of competition grappling focused BJJ has done somewhat of a disservice to jujitsu as far as public opinion goes. All they see is two guys rolling around on the ground. Worse, yet, is the grappling tournaments where a typical "takedown" involves a lapel grab and an attempt to drag the opponent into guard. Jujitsu, when taught in a well rounded manner as a combat art/system and not with grappling competition as primary focus, is an extremely versatile form of combat. One only has to go back and look at its roots and original purpose for development to understand that fact. No offense, whatsoever, intended toward those who compete. (I did) To further address the subject at hand: Boxing has rules against things like clinching. They get broken up. But, they can't really stop someone from clinching, so they'd need a technique to deal with that in a fight. Jujitsu, when employed from standing especially against an opponent not skilled in grappling etc, has very effective ways of hitting that person with the ground, really hard. The intent is to throw, not to take down and wrestle. There are some reasons that happens in competition. Street fights tend to roll around on the ground because neither fighter was all that skilled in throws. Not many judokas are dumb enough to go around participating in street fights. I have seen and experienced a very few altercations under uncontrolled circumstances between one trained person and the other, evidently, not so trained albeit very pissed off and fired up person. Every incident ended extremely fast with only one or two techniques used and to great effect. None of the fight ending techniques was a punch. None of the fights ended up with the trained defender on the ground.
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Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. This . I boxed for years. Studied Kenpo and Bando for years .Im currently studying fma. Ive been in scores of fights (work related and off) . If it,goes to the ground its because ive fucked up or wanted it there. Im not disparaging jiu jitsu . Im not proclaiming badassery . Ive lost a few . But,this fan boy ufcc Bjj is the end all be all is ludicrous. |
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This . I boxed for years. Studied Kenpo and Bando for years .Im currently studying fma. Ive been in scores of fights (work related and off) . If it,goes to the ground its because ive fucked up or wanted it there. Im not disparaging jiu jitsu . Im not proclaiming badassery . Ive lost a few . But,this fan boy ufcc Bjj is the end all be all is ludicrous. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore what they're doing. This . I boxed for years. Studied Kenpo and Bando for years .Im currently studying fma. Ive been in scores of fights (work related and off) . If it,goes to the ground its because ive fucked up or wanted it there. Im not disparaging jiu jitsu . Im not proclaiming badassery . Ive lost a few . But,this fan boy ufcc Bjj is the end all be all is ludicrous. I can't argue with the red because there's a lot of truth to it. Several who recommend JJ or Judo have more than a passing knowledge of the arts and their opinions were not formed from watching UFC, as so many who claim that either art is all about ground work seem to have. The uninformed (about JJ, that is) hear the term jujitsu and envision this. 
When this is more the sort of thing that is used outside the ring. They don't get up from that landing very fast, usually. It's just very tough to employ stuff like this in a "ready set go" environment when the two participants are so equal as well as intent on defense. (There's considerable nuance in that statement that would take paragraphs to fully explain.) 
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Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. Quoted:
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No. Fights almost always end up on the ground. Learn to wrestle. BJJ can be decent, but wrestling/MMA would be ideal in a street fight IMO, if there is no way for you to avoid the fight. Unfortunately, I have been in several and having wrestled and done some MMA has helped immensely. Fights almost always end up on the ground because almost no one knows how to box anymore. This is true. But you don't have to box to keep someone from tackling you. I would say a more well rounded striking discipline that has no regard for sporting rules - trapping the knee, gouging eyes and groin strikes are banned from sports for a reason. A lot of MMA matches stay standing up these days, especially when both the competitors are well rounded and one guy wants to keep it off the ground because the other guy is a 6th degree BJJ blackbelt (it's easier to keep the fight standing than it is to get out of a twisty pretzel). Strategy plays a bigger role than it did early on when it was just my kung fu vs. your kung fu. Collegiate wresting is all well and good, and in a lot of instances a well trained fighter in any discipline is going to overwhelm someone with little training, but striking and good takedown defense can neutralize someone with just wrestling experience, and using a sporting discipline in a situation with no rules can really get someone in trouble. Locking in a tight armbar can be a guaranteed win in an MMA match, but in a street fight where your opponent's buddy is coming out of the bar right when you get it cinched it's a death trap that will get your face caved in. A good guard can keep you from getting killed by someone bigger than you until help arrives, but you never know if that help is going to be the cops or one of your opponent's brothers. Sometimes that gamble is your best option for trying to keep from getting injured, but it might not have been if you had stronger striking skills. Overall you're going to be best served with a varied skillset, good conditioning and quick thinking. Self defense isn't something you can learn or boil down into basic concepts on an Internet forum like shooting fundamentals because the latter is a skill, and self defense is a goal. With an infinite number of scenarios that each could have an infinite number of variables, in which you could use many different strategies for success that each could borrow from many different tactics, each of which require a different set of skills - it's just a waste of time to argue about BJJ vs. boxing. If you want to win boxing matches learn boxing, if you want to enter grappling tournaments learn BJJ, and if you want to fight MMA learn both. If you learn how to best defend yourself on the street, you need to first study the actual threats you're likely to face because it seems like the people arguing in these threads are usually pretty ignorant about that basic starting point, and then seek out either a well rounded self defense discipline OR learn 3 or 4 focused disciplines and take the useful parts from each when you need them. |