Posted: 9/5/2014 2:33:28 PM EDT
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Who is at fault? Cager, Biker, 51/49?
I says its shared liability 51/49 cager/biker |
| Depends on the speeding. If you're doing a speed that would reasonably be expected to be on the road and you pull in front it's still 100% the car even if the bike was doing ten over. If the bike is doing 200mph and the driver didn't recognize that the rate of closure is higher than they would reasonably expect it to be it's on the bike. |
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It depends, do you have a stop sign/red light? does he have any type of traffic control device in his lane?
If you ahve any form of a stop sign/light and he doesn't it would be you fault. Now if he had one both would be at fault but mainly him. They it takes 2 people doing the wrong things at the exact same time for an accident. |
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There was a recent wreck here where an offduty police officer slowed his SUV to check on a fellow officer doing a traffic stop, and saw a motorcycle in the rearview approaching at a very high rate of speed, so the offduty officer immediately got over to the next lane to avoid and motorcycle, but the motorcycle rider also changed lanes at the same time in order to avoid the SUV, and collided. Killed the rider.
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A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Quoted:
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Define turning left. Making a legal left turn? A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. your fault, wait until he passes and stop rushing |
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A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Quoted:
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Define turning left. Making a legal left turn? A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Does the turner see the biker? Most times they don't! Your post lacks needed details to make a determination 
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A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Quoted:
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Define turning left. Making a legal left turn? A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Never met a biker who wasn't also a cager Is your turn signal operating? |
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Depends on the speeding. If you're doing a speed that would reasonably be expected to be on the road and you pull in front it's still 100% the car even if the bike was doing ten over. If the bike is doing 200mph and the driver didn't recognize that the rate of closure is higher than they would reasonably expect it to be it's on the bike. This. |
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Never met a biker who wasn't also a cager Is your turn signal operating? Quoted:
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Define turning left. Making a legal left turn? A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Never met a biker who wasn't also a cager Is your turn signal operating? Turn signal doesn't equal right of way. The turning vehicle needs to yield to the oncoming traffic. |
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Does the turner see the biker? Most times they don't! Your post lacks needed details to make a determination Quoted:
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Define turning left. Making a legal left turn? A left turn crossing the center strip of a two lane roadway to enter a driveway or street to your left. Not a detroit/michigan left turn. an actual left turn. Does the turner see the biker? Most times they don't! Your post lacks needed details to make a determination Does "I saw him but thought I had enough time to turn in in front of him" make him more or less guilty of unsafe turn than " I didnt even see the motorcycle comming the other way"? |
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No doubt about it. The asshole in the car, or truck.
I've had 2 accidents on my bike. Both times some asshole made a left hand turn in front of me. Both times they got ticketed. The one time cost me 26 days in a fucking hospital, and another 3 months on crutches. That cost his insurance company big bucks. Speeding? who's to say the biker was speeding? |
In this accident, it was the riders fault.
ETA: The story I linked is an older story before the investigation concluded. I'll see if I can dig up the latest. I believe they estimated the motorcycle going around 95mph. |
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Have had dozens of dipshits look right at me, and I mean look right AT me, and then pull out and turn left at a cross road stop sign.
Most have been women in Mini-Vans, one was a dude in a Honda, one was an old lady in a station wagon back in the day. Two resulted in carnage. The story was the same on both "I'm sorry, I didn't see you", which is a fucking lie. I SAW them see me. Speed dosn't matter. The fucktards brain see's and then disregards bikes and riders, because they are looking for another car or truck. Thanks to a good percentage of morons on the road, essentially operating in a mental fog with thier cognitive brain turned the fuck off, all the lights, bells, whistles and safety vests don't matter. Where speed, and damn good front brakes matters, is the rider having time to react to the drivers stupidity. The IQ of the general population drops 60 points, the second they climb into a vehicle. |
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This is the law. And it doesnt say "unless oncomming traffic is speeding" Quoted:
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Turn signal doesn't equal right of way. The turning vehicle needs to yield to the oncoming traffic. This is the law. And it doesnt say "unless oncomming traffic is speeding" That is true. Also... Humans, in general, suck at determining closing speed of a moving object. |
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In this accident, it was the riders fault. http://www.timesnews.net/data/gnpics/2014/ed4069aace91350331ed81fad1f257b0.jpg I disagree |
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Does the fact that the biker is speeding make it okay to turn into (block) his lane? Quoted:
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Speeding? The Speeder. Does the fact that the biker is speeding make it okay to turn into (block) his lane? Not at all, but it makes it really easy to misjudge how much time you have to get out of their way if they're going like 40 over.... ETA- I've almost hit a biker on a couple occasions when changing lanes. I check my mirror, see nobody there, then start to change and some asshole biker going 100mph almost plows into the back of my truck. Right or wrong, if you drive like an asshole on your bike it's only a matter of time before you get smeared on the pavement. |
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Quoted: No doubt about it. The asshole in the car, or truck. I've had 2 accidents on my bike. Both times some asshole made a left hand turn in front of me. Both times they got ticketed. The one time cost me 26 days in a fucking hospital, and another 3 months on crutches. That cost his insurance company big bucks. Speeding? who's to say the biker was speeding? |
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This is the law. And it doesnt say "unless oncomming traffic is speeding" Quoted:
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Turn signal doesn't equal right of way. The turning vehicle needs to yield to the oncoming traffic. This is the law. And it doesnt say "unless oncomming traffic is speeding" This time eleventy. Vehicle turning is breaking traffic therefore is supposed to yield. Period. But most people driving a car don't care what is happening 10 feet outside of their vehicle so they just turn anyways. They are special flowers and everyone else is supposed to make room for them, not the other way around. |
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Turning left in front of ANY vehicle, regardless of the oncoming vehicle's type or speed, is YOUR fault. Christ, I've been a rider for 25 years, and I know that. Who factor's oncoming traffic speed into the level of culpability of the driver turning left who doesn't have the right-of-way to begin with? Would a U-turn make it more obvious?
This scenario also sounds like a "speeding rider deserves the asphalt surf experience" justification. If left-turner claimed he/she didn't see the biker (with DRL shining in their face, by law since about 1980) then speeding would be irrelevant anyway and it's still their fault. |
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I say it depends on the speed of the biker.
Given the biker's distance from the intersection, could the driver of the car reasonably expect to complete the turn before the biker reaches the intersection, assuming the biker was travelling approximately the speed limit? If no, then it's the driver's fault entirely. If maybe/pushing it, then both are at fault, but mostly the driver. If yes, then it's the biker's fault. Sometimes, stupid hurts. |
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You turn left in front of oncoming traffic, that's failure to yield. If the oncoming traffic is excessively speeding, ie 100 in a 35 zone, that's contributing negligence, but the main fault still stays with failure to yield. Doesn't make any difference if its a motorcycle or a semi, although if its a bike, you are more likely to kill the rider, and then you are facing manslaughter charges. |
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Does the fact that the biker is speeding make it okay to turn into (block) his lane? Quoted:
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Speeding? The Speeder. Does the fact that the biker is speeding make it okay to turn into (block) his lane? A driver can have the expectation that an oncoming vehicle is doing the proper speed limit. 60 in a 30 is getting to you twice as fast the vehicle that just passed you. Of course speed is a factor. It also limited the biker's time to react. There is the presumption that one must also make an effort to avoid an accident. WTF, motorcycles are part of some entitlement class? |
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Fault goes to the left turner .... every time.
Much as most cagers might not like that .... that is how it goes. Funny how some here say the biker but flip it around ...... Biker makes left turn in front of speeding car and gets hit. The same people will always blame the biker. Haters Just Gonna Hate !!!! 
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In excessive speed situations (like 100 in a 40 for example) where the bike is flying low, I can see the desire to say it's their fault (I'm sure there are some court cases where it was found to be the bikers fault). One second the bike is "far enough away" and the next, it's blowing through the trunk of your car as you're pulling out. Cars don't tend to speed to the same degree as bikes, in my experience, so I can understand the "auto-pilot" of the average driver not noticing the speed and potentially causing the accident.
But there's no excuse for not looking twice to notice little things like large positional changes over short durations of time (ie the speed of oncoming traffic) and pulling out in front of the bike in my mind. |
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I'm an avid biker, and most times it is the cagers at fault.
But I'm also a car driver, and I know that bikes are hard to see, some bikers are speeding assholes, and that sometimes shit happens. If you are in your car, please check a second time before you pull out. If you are a biker, please do the speed limit and ride aware. |
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ETA: truly is a fucked up video. But the whole play studio game win stupid prizes comes to mind and I ride a sport bike |
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Have had dozens of dipshits look right at me, and I mean look right AT me, and then pull out and turn left at a cross road stop sign. Most have been women in Mini-Vans, one was a dude in a Honda, one was an old lady in a station wagon back in the day. Two resulted in carnage. The story was the same on both "I'm sorry, I didn't see you", which is a fucking lie. I SAW them see me. Speed dosn't matter. The fucktards brain see's and then disregards bikes and riders, because they are looking for another car or truck. Thanks to a good percentage of morons on the road, essentially operating in a mental fog with thier cognitive brain turned the fuck off, all the lights, bells, whistles and safety vests don't matter. Where speed, and damn good front brakes matters, is the rider having time to react to the drivers stupidity. The IQ of the general population drops 60 points, the second they climb into a vehicle. |
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I disagree Quoted:
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In this accident, it was the riders fault. http://www.timesnews.net/data/gnpics/2014/ed4069aace91350331ed81fad1f257b0.jpg I disagree Even if he's doing 109 mph? |
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Fault goes to the left turner .... every time. Much as most cagers might not like that .... that is how it goes. Funny how some here say the biker but flip it around ...... Biker makes left turn in front of speeding car and gets hit. The same people will always blame the biker. Haters Just Gonna Hate !!!! I wouldn't at all. If you're going SO fast that someone turning legitimately misjudges how much time they have I think the speeder holds a lot of culpability. The law may say different....but remember that old saying about how it's possible to be 100% right and still be dead? |
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I say it depends on the speed of the biker. Given the biker's distance from the intersection, could the driver of the car reasonably expect to complete the turn before the biker reaches the intersection, assuming the biker was travelling approximately the speed limit? If no, then it's the driver's fault entirely. If maybe/pushing it, then both are at fault, but mostly the driver. If yes, then it's the biker's fault. Sometimes, stupid hurts. I think this explains it pretty well. if you are on a 35 mph street and biker is going 150 mph you very likely would not see said biker when you start your turn. now if biker is going 20 mph over the speed limit you should have seen them and your fault. there are many variables, thus you have police that are specifically trained to investigate crashes. |
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Have had dozens of dipshits look right at me, and I mean look right AT me, and then pull out and turn left at a cross road stop sign. Most have been women in Mini-Vans, one was a dude in a Honda, one was an old lady in a station wagon back in the day. Two resulted in carnage. The story was the same on both "I'm sorry, I didn't see you", which is a fucking lie. I SAW them see me. Speed dosn't matter. The fucktards brain see's and then disregards bikes and riders, because they are looking for another car or truck. Thanks to a good percentage of morons on the road, essentially operating in a mental fog with thier cognitive brain turned the fuck off, all the lights, bells, whistles and safety vests don't matter. Where speed, and damn good front brakes matters, is the rider having time to react to the drivers stupidity. The IQ of the general population drops 60 points, the second they climb into a vehicle. Cops love collision reports like this. "I didn't see him" almost always makes it 100% the drivers fault with instant insurance liability. |