[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AC techs.... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/8/2014 9:06:14 AM EDT
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Friend of mine, Carla, is on a very fixed income. Been in a wheelchair since 16, now 50's.
AC went out. She said she had frost at the condenser. Her BIL offered to step in and said it was low. R22. I stopped by today and suction and liquid line are same pressure with unit running, and suction is nearly warm. Pressure on both sides is 120 or so with unit running. Can it still be low enough to not even be cycling? Should I reclaim and pull a vac and recharge? I'm good at that but not much a tech.  I do have the EPA refrigerant license and all equipment needed.
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Quoted: i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine. |
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i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine. They do hand out EPA licenses like candy-taken the EPA 608? It doesn't have any technical requirement. Just memorization. |
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They do hand out EPA licenses like candy-taken the EPA 608? It doesn't have any technical requirement. Just memorization. Quoted:
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i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine. They do hand out EPA licenses like candy-taken the EPA 608? It doesn't have any technical requirement. Just memorization. I agree. I got one too. It reminds me of the one you get for being a "licensed" pesticide applicator, or a concealed weapon license. The tests are designed to be passed if you attend the class and attempt to pay attention. The real object of the licensing is to get you to pay a fee, to them, and to get you in the "system". |
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Quoted: Could be bad valves in compressor if in fact it is running. ETA: here's one I ran into about three years ago. Was way overcharged and slugged the comp with liquid. No valves equals same pressure on both sides of system. |
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Quoted: ETA: here's one I ran into about three years ago. Was way overcharged and slugged the comp with liquid. Quoted: Quoted: Could be bad valves in compressor if in fact it is running. ETA: here's one I ran into about three years ago. Was way overcharged and slugged the comp with liquid. No valves equals same pressure on both sides of system. |
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Yes, they do. I have mine for mobile and stationary, and all the tests are about is EPA law. A chimp could score 85% on it. Quoted:
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i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine. That's what a buddy said when he got his license |
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Quoted: No valves equals same pressure on both sides of system. Quoted: Unless she's living in a walkin, she doesn't have a compressor like that Quoted: Quoted: Could be bad valves in compressor if in fact it is running. ETA: here's one I ran into about three years ago. Was way overcharged and slugged the comp with liquid. No valves equals same pressure on both sides of system. |
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Quoted:
They do hand out EPA licenses like candy-taken the EPA 608? It doesn't have any technical requirement. Just memorization. Quoted:
Quoted:
i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine. They do hand out EPA licenses like candy-taken the EPA 608? It doesn't have any technical requirement. Just memorization. It really is just reclaim and recovery practices and tank specs and ozone questions. Has zero to do with knowing troubleshooting. |
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Friend of mine, Carla, is on a very fixed income. Been in a wheelchair since 16, now 50's. AC went out. She said she had frost at the condenser. Her BIL offered to step in and said it was low. R22. I stopped by today and suction and liquid line are same pressure with unit running, and suction is nearly warm. Pressure on both sides is 120 or so with unit running. Can it still be low enough to not even be cycling? Should I reclaim and pull a vac and recharge? I'm good at that but not much a tech. I do have the EPA refrigerant license and all equipment needed.First of all ice at the condenser usually means you are low on charge and that there is leak. Even pressures mean that the compressor is not running, probably only the condenser fan motor. The unit could be out on low suction pressure. There is a safety switch that will take the compressor off line if the pressure gets to low. Can you take a pic of the schematic inside of the unit? Shut the system down and let it defrost. The inside coil is probably a block of ice also |
| if suction is warm and pressures equal compressor is not running or running in reverse. shut down your condensor by the disconnect and run a garden hose over your compressor for about a half hour see if it restarts. there maybe a problem with the TXV, a dirty coil or blower motor which some people mistake for an under charge then they over charge the system |
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Quoted: Quoted: Yeah. I don't work residential. Doesn't make a difference though, scroll compressors have reeds too as far as I know. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Could be bad valves in compressor if in fact it is running. ETA: here's one I ran into about three years ago. Was way overcharged and slugged the comp with liquid. No valves equals same pressure on both sides of system. |
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Quoted: if suction is warm and pressures equal compressor is not running or running in reverse. shut down your condensor by the disconnect and run a garden hose over your compressor for about a half hour see if it restarts. there maybe a problem with the TXV, a dirty coil or blower motor which some people mistake for an under charge then they over charge the system |
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Can you make a single phase comp run backwards? Quoted:
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if suction is warm and pressures equal compressor is not running or running in reverse. shut down your condensor by the disconnect and run a garden hose over your compressor for about a half hour see if it restarts. there maybe a problem with the TXV, a dirty coil or blower motor which some people mistake for an under charge then they over charge the system I suppose a capacitor failure could cause it try and run backwards, but I don't think it would get up to speed and it would sound like hell. |
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Quoted: There is a discharge check valve, but it's failure only affects the system with equalization when system is off. Only a real concern during pump down operation as scroll tips run backwards and low pressure switch cycles compressor. ETA: Any luck op?
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Can you make a single phase comp run backwards? Quoted:
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if suction is warm and pressures equal compressor is not running or running in reverse. shut down your condensor by the disconnect and run a garden hose over your compressor for about a half hour see if it restarts. there maybe a problem with the TXV, a dirty coil or blower motor which some people mistake for an under charge then they over charge the system No only a three phase |
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<snip> First of all ice at the condenser usually means you are low on charge and that there is leak. Even pressures mean that the compressor is not running, probably only the condenser fan motor. The unit could be out on low suction pressure. There is a safety switch that will take the compressor off line if the pressure gets to low. Can you take a pic of the schematic inside of the unit? Shut the system down and let it defrost. The inside coil is probably a block of ice also This is the issue I'd be chasing first (low charge). The cause for the low charge is obviously next. I don't see a bad cap causing this, and I don't see a low charge blowing up a compressor. |
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Quoted: Cool, thanks for the answers. Quoted: Quoted: There is a discharge check valve, but it's failure only affects the system with equalization when system is off. Only a real concern during pump down operation as scroll tips run backwards and low pressure switch cycles compressor. ETA: Any luck op? |
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Quoted: Yes, they do. I have mine for mobile and stationary, and all the tests are about is EPA law. A chimp could score 85% on it. Quoted: Quoted: i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine.  |
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This is the issue I'd be chasing first (low charge). The cause for the low charge is obviously next. I don't see a bad cap causing this, and I don't see a low charge blowing up a compressor. Quoted:
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<snip> First of all ice at the condenser usually means you are low on charge and that there is leak. Even pressures mean that the compressor is not running, probably only the condenser fan motor. The unit could be out on low suction pressure. There is a safety switch that will take the compressor off line if the pressure gets to low. Can you take a pic of the schematic inside of the unit? Shut the system down and let it defrost. The inside coil is probably a block of ice also This is the issue I'd be chasing first (low charge). The cause for the low charge is obviously next. I don't see a bad cap causing this, and I don't see a low charge blowing up a compressor. Problem is I can't check charge with no comp. thinking I should reclaim, pull vac, charge a known amount (lbs). |
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ETA: Any luck op? Not so quick proto, I've had several trane scrolls who's internal relief leaked by just enough to fuck up capacity but not show it much in the pressures. Weirdest thing I ever saw. Discharge pressure ran a little higher and occasionally tripped the HP safety in a SWUD. Chased it for a couple of years. Got to noticing a trend with this unit running more compressors than the other floors. Did a pump down ( yes I know you shouldn't pump down a scroll) to see what happened. The liquid line service valve was fully closed and the pressures dropped to 200 head and 50 suction. Changed that compressor and all worked well. Had it happen to circuit two in the same unit. Quoted:
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There is a discharge check valve, but it's failure only affects the system with equalization when system is off. Only a real concern during pump down operation as scroll tips run backwards and low pressure switch cycles compressor. Not so quick proto, I've had several trane scrolls who's internal relief leaked by just enough to fuck up capacity but not show it much in the pressures. Weirdest thing I ever saw. Discharge pressure ran a little higher and occasionally tripped the HP safety in a SWUD. Chased it for a couple of years. Got to noticing a trend with this unit running more compressors than the other floors. Did a pump down ( yes I know you shouldn't pump down a scroll) to see what happened. The liquid line service valve was fully closed and the pressures dropped to 200 head and 50 suction. Changed that compressor and all worked well. Had it happen to circuit two in the same unit. That's one you feel like you're just beating your head against a wall until you figure it out. Damn-thanks for the heads up. |
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Compressor was super hot. Lots of heat coming off of it. Sprayed for 15 min and letting it cool while I run for my reclaimer and another hose. I have several rem tanks of r22 that I can use if I run a cord and the whole setup.
It's been like 5+ years since I took the EPA test. Why can't we use r22 recovered from another working system on another customers system? Different oils? |
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Quoted:
Compressor was super hot. Lots of heat coming off of it. Sprayed for 15 min and letting it cool while I run for my reclaimer and another hose. I have several rem tanks of r22 that I can use if I run a cord and the whole setup. It's been like 5+ years since I took the EPA test. Why can't we use r22 recovered from another working system on another customers system? Different oils? Impossible to truly know reclaimed material content or quality. EPA says you may only provide either virgin or certified recycled refrigerant to a customer needing more refrigerant than is currently in the system. |
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Quoted: i just reread the op question. you have epa license and tools and yet you cannot fix it? they don't hand out licenses from a gumball machine. |
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Impossible to truly know reclaimed material content or quality. EPA says you may only provide either virgin or certified recycled refrigerant to a customer needing more refrigerant than is currently in the system. Quoted:
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Compressor was super hot. Lots of heat coming off of it. Sprayed for 15 min and letting it cool while I run for my reclaimer and another hose. I have several rem tanks of r22 that I can use if I run a cord and the whole setup. It's been like 5+ years since I took the EPA test. Why can't we use r22 recovered from another working system on another customers system? Different oils? Impossible to truly know reclaimed material content or quality. EPA says you may only provide either virgin or certified recycled refrigerant to a customer needing more refrigerant than is currently in the system. So where do I find my starting charge? Found a tiny leak, just recovered and am going to fix that now. |
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So where do I find my starting charge? Found a tiny leak, just recovered and am going to fix that now. Quoted:
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Compressor was super hot. Lots of heat coming off of it. Sprayed for 15 min and letting it cool while I run for my reclaimer and another hose. I have several rem tanks of r22 that I can use if I run a cord and the whole setup. It's been like 5+ years since I took the EPA test. Why can't we use r22 recovered from another working system on another customers system? Different oils? Impossible to truly know reclaimed material content or quality. EPA says you may only provide either virgin or certified recycled refrigerant to a customer needing more refrigerant than is currently in the system. So where do I find my starting charge? Found a tiny leak, just recovered and am going to fix that now. It's generally printed on the data tag that faded away 8 years ago. No real way to know without it. What's make and model? |
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Evcon unit manufactured by York, made in witchata ks in November of 2010. Compressor has a five year warranty. Call some one to change it you'll pay for labor and refrigerant, plus any other parts they use. 2011 Manufacture year, but yes-still under warranty. |
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Anytime you have a scroll or hermetic compressor running but not pumping (equal pressures on the gauges) you have a mechanical failure. 9/10 it's been slugged to death and the scroll or valves are physically broken.
Replace compressor, install new filter drier, vacuum to 500 microns, add factory charge... Adjust charge by reading superheat with fixed orifice metering device, or by subcooling with TXV metering device. Then check both superheat and subcooling to insure the system is working properly. I am willing to bet you have a fixed orifice metering device and the last contractor overcharged the unit and caused flood back which took out the compressor... Very common cause and effect. |
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Anytime you have a scroll or hermetic compressor running but not pumping (equal pressures on the gauges) you have a mechanical failure. 9/10 it's been slugged to death and the scroll or valves are physically broken. Replace compressor, install new filter drier, vacuum to 500 microns, add factory charge... Adjust charge by reading superheat with fixed orifice metering device, or by subcooling with TXV metering device. Then check both superheat and subcooling to insure the system is working properly. I am willing to bet you have a fixed orifice metering device and the last contractor overcharged the unit and caused flood back which took out the compressor... Very common cause and effect. Quite possible if it's a short lineset. Good points ZW. |
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Quoted: Can you make a single phase comp run backwards? Quoted: Quoted: if suction is warm and pressures equal compressor is not running or running in reverse. shut down your condensor by the disconnect and run a garden hose over your compressor for about a half hour see if it restarts. there maybe a problem with the TXV, a dirty coil or blower motor which some people mistake for an under charge then they over charge the system |
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Quoted:
Anytime you have a scroll or hermetic compressor running but not pumping (equal pressures on the gauges) you have a mechanical failure. 9/10 it's been slugged to death and the scroll or valves are physically broken. Replace compressor, install new filter drier, vacuum to 500 microns, add factory charge... Adjust charge by reading superheat with fixed orifice metering device, or by subcooling with TXV metering device. Then check both superheat and subcooling to insure the system is working properly. I am willing to bet you have a fixed orifice metering device and the last contractor overcharged the unit and caused flood back which took out the compressor... Very common cause and effect. Correct. Fixed orifice. |
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https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=single%20phase%20compressor%20running%20backwards it was a big problem when scrolls first came out, and it happens to recips a lot
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