Posted: 12/25/2002 2:52:48 PM EDT
|
If this turns into a ruckus, I'll delete it in a heartbeat. I'm just curious, that's all. Do NOT read anything into the question. It's a plain and simple question. Why are there so few minority shooters? |
|
Probably because most don't have fathers at home. I dare say that most of us were influenced and/or introduced to shooting sports by our fathers/uncles/grandfathers. With the majority of minority males raised in homes with no male figure, it stands to reason that they don't get involved in safe, practical, and sportsmanlike shooting sports. |
| OK- I'll jump into the fray. The urban centers in this country have high populations of minorities, whereas out in the country or on the outskirts of cities it is predominately caucasian. With no place to shoot easily combined with the "liberal" tendencies of the urban areas it just does not seem to foster the shooting sports. I am white, and the the black friends I have are just as interested, but as we are growing older and have responsibilities such as house and children it gets harder and harder to break away. Not with just shooting, but all of the other things we like to do. It does seem a shame though. I have always beleived things should be equal among races. When I see certain "big draw names" on TV it just seems to foster harsh feelings and hatred. I have always maintained that this interest we share here is a binding one. Kind of like owning a Jeep or a motorcycle- you wave to people you don't know. I don't wish to admit it, but if we end up fighting a war on terrorism on our soil I think it will be good for race relations. At that point we are all wanted dead or injured- black, red, yellow, white, whatever, because we are all Americans. At that point we will come together for a greater good. I just hope people can realize that without such an impetus. |
|
I don't think it's the lack of fathers. I think it's the societal curse put upon guns by the gangbangers, drive-by shootings & that GD rap music. Very few minorities hunt so very few have a tangable example of "good" gun usage. Ya'll also have to realize that there's a black male who's shot & killed close to every minute of every day in this country. That's a powerful image to overtake with a good image, IMO. |
|
This is actually an interesting question. I take it in the spirit of including minorities in our sport, hobbie, desire for the means and skills for self defense and exclusive. the reasons are many and are primarily sociological in nature. Simply put, for several hundred years in this country the laws passed by certain elitist factions made it difficult for minorities to own and keep firearms. This really did not change until the last century, by which many minorities had migrated to northern cities, which in turn passed gun control legislation to keep them from being armed. Those European and Asian minorities did not have a great tradition of firearms ownership and also in large part settled in these cities. It was quite simply very hard to buy a gun legally and the only people they knew with them were cops, shopkeepers and criminals. It was not seen as a recreational item. It was a tool of business good or bad, and alot of these folks felt they had no business owning or shooting one. Dealing only with legal activity we now see minorities taking to the shooting sports as they gain both socioeconomic parity and have more lesiure time. This hobbie costs money and I have seen that those minorities with money don't mind picking it up. I think we find that we are a country that has multiple traditions and that those traditions change slowly over time for a variety of reasons. This causes certain ideological changes in both the individual and the populace as a whole. For much of our history we were taught that minorities with guns were a dangerous thing. As opportunity and hard work moves these once identifiable minority groups into the main economic stream it is therefore incumbent on us to welcome them. The key is take a minority friend shooting and introduce them to this great passtime. As others before they will become converts. The future of this country and firearms enthusiasts is inclusiveness. People do not fear what they understand, therefore don't seek to do away with it. [soapbox] |
|
It's an urban/rural thing. There are no shooting ranges anywhere near the larger cities, no positive role models, no fathers, no scouts .... Just found the first picture with me and a rifle - a Winchester lever action and I was almost six. Plenty of scouting pictures of me cleaning targets at age 11. |
|
Tac and Dave, Jump in here if I'm wrong. I'm aware that the bulk of the Jews that came to the US had some skills in things like art, science, trades and other 'city type' skills and generally lived in the cities and towns. IE, there were few Jewish frontiersmen. Also, Jews have some pretty strict dietary laws (read the Torah....1st 5 Books of Moses) and that hunting really wasn't much of an option if they wanted to stay within the laws of their faith. As a result, there really wasn't much of a heritage of hunting or gun ownwership. I can understand that. It also explains why many, but certainly not all, Jews tend to be pretty liberal. As for Blacks, most early gun control was probably pretty racial in origin. Still, with the amount of Blacks out there that are into athletics, it surprises me that more of them haven't gravitated into the shooting sports. As for Orientals, I have no clue. |
|
Picolo: The groups you listed in your last post are exactly who I was referring to. I think you will see however as time goes on that these groups do move into the shooting sports. Either for defense which is logical, or for pure sport. It is however a slow process and I have found that opportunity is the best catalist to move in our direction. I live in a neghborhood that has a large Jewish population. None of these folks hunt, I think for the reasons you mentioned. Many however own firearms, either for sport or defense. I know one asian guy also a board member, who has so many firearms he is probably considering a second apartment if nothing else for storage room for his collection. Additionally I shoot with many black olks at the local range. As I said, these traditions are increasing and will continue to increase as we move to a more integrated society and continue to conduct ourselves inclusively. |
|
Hi Piccolo! I think that a growing majority of the 'new' generation have little respect in regards to being responsible.That applies to ALL races. It is true that many inner-city kids are fatherless.Sad,since kids that have to fight an uphill battle at birth, are further subjected to negative figures that they rely on for guidance. My father passed away when I was a teenager, but I still had influential male figures in my life.One was a very outdoorsmen type Uncle.Thank G-d for him! Seems like the majority of people I talk to think the Jews came over after WW2!There were a few frontiersman Jews such as Zigmund Schleisinger.I remember reading about him as a yoot. While it is true most are college educated and city slickers, that doesnt mean there arent 'rustic' Jews like myself! Heck, Jews have been here forever in the States.Some fought for the Union in the CW, but many dont know that plenty were Confederate Jews! As for the Asians, 1992 LA Riots.Most of their shops and business survived due to them being armed against the looters and sewer roaches. |
|
Minorities, as well as non-minorities, who wish to succeed in their careers, who are perceived as sucessful, have probably adopted the social behaviors they perceive as consistent with those who they emulate/network with/wish to replace. So....if AR15.Com/NRA/GOA/etc. could publicly recruit all of the Fortune 500 CEO's, their employees would get the message that it is good to own AR's, and firearms in general, and would join us too. Then we could turn all of the land wasted on golf courses into rifle ranges, as God intended! |
|
There are two ranges that I frequent, one south of Houston in an area that was for a long time rural and is now suburban, that where it is not at all uncommon to see black and hispanic shooters. The other range is ASC in central Houston where I have never been shooting and not seen asians there as well as blacks and hispanics. So we don't see your lack of minority shooters. I will add that the asians are very into handguns and it is rare to see them shooting a hunting rifle. A couple of months ago I was at ASC with my wife. She was practicing with her Glock and the shooter next to her was an asian gentleman about 50 yoa. He was shooting a nambu pistol. I had seen them in gun mags but had never seen one at the range. I made a comment about the gun and he was happy to tell me all about it. Even insisted I fire a few shots. The last time I was there I had two of my ARs. One was in the rack and I was shooting the other one. Two young black men were walking by and one commented about the M-4 in the rack. "Look at that bad moth** fu****, I'd like to get on of those." The other one said "Why spend all that money on a gun you can't hit shi* with?" I was very curious to know hwere he heard that ARs were inacurate. |
|
Tac, Thanks for jumping in! One of the founding fathers of this ruckus we call a republic was Jewish. I'm pretty sure that there WERE a few Jewish frontiersman, but the truth is, that in the early days of the nation, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, MOST Jews were town/city dwellers. Another thing, many people would be somewhat surprised to find out how many contributions in the country were made by Jews. Admittedly, I was speaking in generalities. BTW, as far as I see it , you're STILL "Sea of Gallilee Irish"! [:D] |
|
Quoted: Ya'll also have to realize that there's a black male who's shot & killed close to every minute of every day in this country. Umm... Bob, that's 1,440 deaths by gunshot per 24 hour day or 10,080 deaths by gunshotper week or 43,200 deaths by gunshot per month or 525,600 deaths by gunshot per year Could you please provide us the statistical evidence to support your claim? |
| Here is a sport where you will rarely or never see a minority - off road Jeeping. I have been doing this for several years now. I have attended large gatherings in several states. Never saw a black person off-roading. I have met white people from all walks of life and from all income levels and educational levels. But no blacks. Maybe they can't stand the thought of getting a vehicle dirty on purpose or tearing up the body work and running gear and enjoying fixing it. |
|
Growing up in Miami - I learned that Cubans LOVE their hand cannons. when I started shooting, the 357 was THE round to shoot, and the range was packed with Colt and S&W chrome plated wheel guns. I always shot a 1911 so I was the minority at the range. They were almost to a person a large group of well mannered, freedom loving, safety concsious individuals. |
| Once you get away from urban areas you'll find more minorities hunt and shoot than you realize. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Regional Education Coordinator in our area is a black guy from rural East Texas and he knows everything there is to know about hunting and shooting indigenous game. Finest squirrel dumplings you'll ever taste are his mother's recipe. You just gotta realize cultural differences mitigate they will hunt where whitey isn't. Lots of folks hunt to eat and don't pay much attention to game laws, but pay lots of attention not to draw any. You won't see these guys at the local rifle range. Like other things they do it's out of sight if you're white. |
|
Quoted: Growing up in Miami -They were almost to a person a large group of well mannered, freedom loving, safety concsious individuals. You grew up in Miami? [:)]Small world! I used to go to Tamiami gun shop's indoor range. I shot a 1911 also.I was 16 at the time.Never liked the wheelguns....except the single actions. Good old days! |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Growing up in Miami -They were almost to a person a large group of well mannered, freedom loving, safety concsious individuals. You grew up in Miami? [:)]Small world! I used to go to Tamiami gun shop's indoor range. I shot a 1911 also.I was 16 at the time.Never liked the wheelguns....except the single actions. Good old days! You've probably got a few years on me Ed! I grew up in North Miami - near 183rd and 441. The range in south Broward was cloer to me - I can't remember the name but it was real close to the Aqua Golf and Pirates World - Now that was a long time ago! - 1975 was when I started shooting something other than my grandmother's Winchester mod. 1890 .22 rifle. I was 17 |
|
Let's see now, I'm a young black man who wants to go shooting. Yep, I'll buy a gun and go out to the range with all the redneck white boys with guns. I'm sure I will be accepted there. I might be honored as the target though. Kidding aside the social differences regarding outdoor sports are rapidly disappearing in this country. Minority participation in motorcycles, bass boats, and even shooting is on the increase. Cultural differences regarding city/rural are slowly disappearing. The telelvision being most likely the biggest contributor but it takes the intelegent to see through the liberal broadcasts which do not condone outdoor activites unless it's a SUV commercial. |
|
Quoted: Tac, Thanks for jumping in! One of the founding fathers of this ruckus we call a republic was Jewish. Who? I'm pretty sure that there WERE a few Jewish frontiersman, but the truth is, that in the early days of the nation, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, MOST Jews were town/city dwellers. Another thing, many people would be somewhat surprised to find out how many contributions in the country were made by Jews. Admittedly, I was speaking in generalities. BTW, as far as I see it , you're STILL "Sea of Gallilee Irish"! [:D] |
|
Alexander Hamilton's mother was Jewish. He attended a Jewish private school on Nevis. He may have been in training for the Bar Mitzvah when his mother died, at which time he was taken under the wing by a number of men, including a local Protestant minister. From that point on, it appears he didn't practice Judaism and in fact, he married a Christian and his children were all Christian. As far as minorities not shooting, I see Blacks and Hispanics at the local range from time to time, and one of the gun stores I frequent has a large number of Black, Asian, and Hispanic customers. I have noticed the minorities tend to purchase handguns over rifles, which I assume they plan to use for self defense. A lot of my Asian friends are afraid of firearms or think they are evil or bad. Probably because they have no history of civilian ownership. And a few Ukrainians I know don't like guns either, making comments such as "In my country, only criminals own guns.", which always evokes a witty comeback from myself along the lines of, "That's why your country is fucked up AND was under the thumb of the Communists for 75 years." That usually shuts them up. |