[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Engineers and Engineering Techs... (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 2/6/2014 3:41:15 PM EDT
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Could you help me with some information?
I was under the impression that Engineers went to 4year or more schools, a year of calc was the basic entry ticket, and that led to the professional engineer cert, and they made the big bucks. And, either outdated or incorrect, that techs went to the two year schools or trade school, HS algebra was the price of admission, and you did not get the big bucks. My son, a bright, two SD above the mean smart kind of kid, brought me some stuff showing 2+2 engineering programs, (2 at local community college, then two at the university), or all 4 at a university, that were calc requiring, awarded a Bachelor's Degree, but were Engineering Technology degrees, and did not count as a pathway to being a PE. So, any insight in the differences, salaries, etc.? Either is good to go in my book, I want my kids to pursue productive lifestyles- each kid gets an AR, an AK, a dozen mags and thousand rounds for each, a Beretta 92, dozen mags and thousand rounds for it, a Mossberg 500 and 500 rounds of buck shot, and American vehicle with a V8 and a carb, and 4 years higher education when they leave the nest. If they can't make it with that, I'll find a stripper half my age with esteem problems and Daddy issues and make more kids. thanks. |
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Quoted: Could you help me with some information? I was under the impression that Engineers went to 4year or more schools, a year of calc was the basic entry ticket, and that led to the professional engineer cert, and they made the big bucks. And, either outdated or incorrect, that techs went to the two year schools or trade school, HS algebra was the price of admission, and you did not get the big bucks. My son, a bright, two SD above the mean smart kind of kid, brought me some stuff showing 2+2 engineering programs, (2 at local community college, then two at the university), or all 4 at a university, that were calc requiring, awarded a Bachelor's Degree, but were Engineering Technology degrees, and did not count as a pathway to being a PE. So, any insight in the differences, salaries, etc.? Either is good to go in my book, I want my kids to pursue productive lifestyles- each kid gets an AR, an AK, a dozen mags and thousand rounds for each, a Beretta 92, dozen mags and thousand rounds for it, a Mossberg 500 and 500 rounds of buck shot, and American vehicle with a V8 and a carb, and 4 years higher education when they leave the nest. If they can't make it with that, I'll find a stripper half my age with esteem problems and Daddy issues and make more kids. thanks. i like the way you think.. besides the engineering point.. i know 2+2 programs are a great way to save some money .. |
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I don't think an engineering technology degree is an engineering degree. It doesn't require the same level of math and is not as valued as an engineering degree. This is accurate. FWIW our local 4 year school did a 2 + 2.5 program for a BS in engineering. If I recall, a few kids from the community college transferred in at the end of sophomore year and graduated with us. Wished I'd known about it, could've saved a shit load of tuition the first two years. Also most engineering schools are ABET accredited, make sure his school of choice is. |
| An engineering technology degree is not an engineering degree. Its a "i dont want to do math degree but pretend I'm an engineer" degree. Basically you only take a couple intro engineering classes and then stop. Get him on the real engineering degree tract. ABET accredited of course. Employers know the difference as well. You wont get an engineering job with an engineering technology degree. |
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I have a PE.
PE licensing requirements vary from state to state. Engineering Technology is less heavy on math, might prohibit you from PE application, and always carriers the "technology" clause behind it. If you have a good work ethic and discipline, get the real engineering degree. You'll want an ABET accredited program, which will require a minimum of 3 semesters of calculus, one semester of differential equations, and an advanced math elective. The subsequent engineering coursework will be calculus based. You'll need to study your ass off while the business and liberal arts majors are out partying. |
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An engineering technology degree is NOT an engineering degree. If your son can hack it (which I'm sure he can) he should get a real engineering degree from a good engineering school.
HOWEVER, that is not to say that he must spend 4 years at that engineering school. He can spend his first two years at a local CC (be sure that the credits will transfer first) and knock out all of his underclassmen courses. Then he can transfer to the good 4 year school for his last two years and save a bunch of money. If I were to do it all over again that's what I'd do. Of course, I didn't do that because I was a snot-nosed 18 year old kid that didn't think. BTW, a lot of engineering disciplines don't require a PE. As a mechanical, the large majority do not get their PE. The only reason you would is if you had some very specific job where you had to stamp drawings. |
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BTW, a lot of engineering disciplines don't require a PE. As a mechanical, the large majority do not get their PE. The only reason you would is if you had some very specific job where you had to stamp drawings. This. There is no PE apprenticeship for "designing weapons that kill lots of people." 
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I got a two year associate degree as a aviation electronics technician in 1976.
I entered the work force as a bench technician. I retired in 2012 from an office job being paid as an electronic engineer (without the BSEE degree). But I worked my ass off to learn what I needed to in order to perform my job functions over the years. If I were to do it again I would go for the four year degree, but back then BS degrees were a lot less expensive. |
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l. He can spend his first two years at a local CC (be sure that the credits will transfer first) and knock out all of his underclassmen courses. Then he can transfer to the good 4 year school for his last two years and save a bunch of money. If. Verify all the credits will transfer. I had a buddy try to do that - got his Electrical Engineering Associates at at CT Community College then transferred to UCONN to get his BS in Electrical Engineering. They didn't take all his credits so he ended up doing almost 3 years of work. The only upside was with his associates he got some decent paying summer jobs working for SNET. |
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Engineering tech is the same as an English degree.... Get a real degree and get a real job. Tell that to my friend who is the Director of Engineering, West Coast for a major pool equipment manufacturer - he has a Mech Eng Technology degree from Cal Poly. Or his brother who is Director of Fabrication for the largest pistachio grower in CA (country?) - with a Industrial Technology degree from Cal Poly. Both make very good money - neither have a PE, neither need a PE. I have a BS in Mech Eng from Cal Poly - I graduated HS on Friday and started college on Monday. I'd go to a Junior College to knock out the GE type classes if I had it to do over again - saves money & I think gets a better fundamentals baseline. |
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Thanks guys,
it really threw me off with the tech degree having a year of calc and being a Bachelors, but not being a pathway to PE licensure. vs. a two year degree. I am thinking it must be degree creep for the tech being a 4 year degree. (like a lot of teachers have a D. Ed., or a lot of "Doctors" being a Doctor of Nursing, Doctor of Physical Therapy, etc. Hell, I remember when two year Associates Degree Nurses and Diploma Degree Nurses took the exact same licensed RN NCLEX that B.S RNs have) Or at least some misleading recruiting making it sound like they are going to an Engineering school. Yeah, I ate the Calc, P-Chem, etc. as an undergrad and definitely missed some party time. Then again, I was brought up to get my hands dirty if you wanted something. i.e.- if I don't like the one percenters having more stuff than me I don't go to a protest, I work towards being a one percenter. That will also totally help getting a young hot woman interested in me if I need to make more kids. |
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If the kid is 2 standard deviations above the mean intelligence-wise then he should be getting some sort of scholarship. I went to a university for my BS in engineering and half my tuition was covered by my scholarship. That made my time there effectively the same price as community college. Kid I knew did the 2 years at the community college program then transferred to my university for the next 2 years. He couldn't hack it. It took him 4 tries to pass Mechanics of Solids. He was not getting what he needed at the CC to succeed in our actual engineering program.
And there is a hell of a lot more math than just 1 year of calculus in an engineering program. |
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Georgia favors EAC/ABET programs versus ETAC/ABET programs (the latter are Technology engineering programs) in terms of granting professional registration.
Georgia will grant PE registration to technology program grads, but the wait time after graduation is longer. Other states, not as backward, don't descriminate between EAC and ETAC programs. Depending on the engineering discipline (civil versus mechanical versus electrical, etc) professional regestration (PE) may or may not be important. Vital for CEs, not so much in varying degrees for the others. Technology grads from ABET accredited programs make within (or even more) a few percent of what EAC (or classical engineering) programs make based on a LOT of data that I've seen. Math requirements for Tech programs are marginally less than non-tech programs. |
| I am in a 4 year tech program, we still do the calc and all that fun stuff, but we get a lot more hands on in our learning than the engineers. Working an internship this summer, as an "engineer" making the same as the people in the standard engineering programs. From what I here, pay is the same in the real world as well, obviously depending on where you work, but a tech and and engineer could work side by side making the same money. |
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In my experience:
Engineering tech = solders components to circuit boards Engineer = designs the boards the tech is soldering, makes about double the money the tech makes At least in the EE world. Also, the only EEs that get a PE are ones that work for public utilities like power systems. |
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Tell that to my friend who is the Director of Engineering, West Coast for a major pool equipment manufacturer - he has a Mech Eng Technology degree from Cal Poly. Or his brother who is Director of Fabrication for the largest pistachio grower in CA (country?) - with a Industrial Technology degree from Cal Poly. Both make very good money - neither have a PE, neither need a PE. Quoted:
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Engineering tech is the same as an English degree.... Get a real degree and get a real job. Tell that to my friend who is the Director of Engineering, West Coast for a major pool equipment manufacturer - he has a Mech Eng Technology degree from Cal Poly. Or his brother who is Director of Fabrication for the largest pistachio grower in CA (country?) - with a Industrial Technology degree from Cal Poly. Both make very good money - neither have a PE, neither need a PE. I didn't say they needed a PE. They need a real degree. Perhaps your friends got lucky. I got my EIT however for my position I don't need my PE. |
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nothing wrong with doing 2 + 2
stay local, kill all the basic requirements at home for much cheaper then go focus on the field of choice where ever basically, the only thing you get by doing all 4 at a university is more out of pocket expenses YMMV eta: this is assuming, of course, that the local CC classes will be accepted by the institute of your choice for the 2+ followup years. this is what my daughter is doing. |
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OP, do not let him fall back to tech. I graduated in 2011 with my BS ME. The jobs available to those of us with ME degrees were far superior in rank, quality, and salary, than those that were available to the MET guys. About 80% of my peers had jobs lined up before graduation. The METs did not. In a tough market, they are the first to get squeezed out. Suck it up, learn the calculus, and graduate with the real ME degree. I'm not naturally gifted at math, but I tougher it out and I'm glad I did. |
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I am in a 4 year tech program, we still do the calc and all that fun stuff, but we get a lot more hands on in our learning than the engineers. Working an internship this summer, as an "engineer" making the same as the people in the standard engineering programs. From what I here, pay is the same in the real world as well, obviously depending on where you work, but a tech and and engineer could work side by side making the same money. Depends on the school & industry. Cal Poly had BSMET degrees that did not require any where near the amount of calc & all that fun stuff & the BSME track was very hands on. I spent ove 10 years in the engineering/manufacturing side and I don't recall ever working side by side with a ET that was making the same as I was - and that includes guys that had been there for many years. Granted, that may just have been the companies I was at. |
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If the kid is 2 standard deviations above the mean intelligence-wise then he should be getting some sort of scholarship. I went to a university for my BS in engineering and half my tuition was covered by my scholarship. That made my time there effectively the same price as community college. Kid I knew did the 2 years at the community college program then transferred to my university for the next 2 years. He couldn't hack it. It took him 4 tries to pass Mechanics of Solids. He was not getting what he needed at the CC to succeed in our actual engineering program. And there is a hell of a lot more math than just 1 year of calculus in an engineering program. Yep, I said the year of calc was the entry ticket. Not the mission compete stamp. Hell, in this country nowadays, you know how few people have eaten even just a year of calc or undergrad physics though? We are importing the shit out of professionals. Hell, I have a daughter that is in the scary 3 SD smart type. I hope the hell I convince her as a woman in Math and Science she can have the red carpet rolled out for her if she plays her cards right. |
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I have taught engineering at the university level and can tell you, scholastically these are apples and oranges. If he is smart enough go for higher level degree it will payoff.
Also, many companies will pay the ride even if you work in the mail room, just another option. |
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I didn't say they needed a PE. They need a real degree. Perhaps your friends got lucky. I got my EIT however for my position I don't need my PE. Quoted:
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Engineering tech is the same as an English degree.... Get a real degree and get a real job. Tell that to my friend who is the Director of Engineering, West Coast for a major pool equipment manufacturer - he has a Mech Eng Technology degree from Cal Poly. Or his brother who is Director of Fabrication for the largest pistachio grower in CA (country?) - with a Industrial Technology degree from Cal Poly. Both make very good money - neither have a PE, neither need a PE. I didn't say they needed a PE. They need a real degree. Perhaps your friends got lucky. I got my EIT however for my position I don't need my PE. I'll respectfully disagree - a BSMET or BSIT from Cal Poly is well respected on the west coast as Cal Poly is usually in the top 10 undergrad schools in the Western US (if not nationwide). I got my EIT my last year of college, never needed my PE. At least one friend (different guy) from Cal Poly with a BSMET has earned his PE - don't recall the specialty. Hell, another friend has his PE and he got a BS Ag Eng from Cal Poly - his family's business is buildiing systems/tenant improvements. |
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I am a controls engineer for a rather large automation company. I make good money, but only have two associates degrees.
Life got in the way back when I was young and indestructible. Never finished the full course and had to work my way up based on sheer ability, passing by the masters degree prima donnas who seemed to never get anything DONE. I did it the hard way and am taking classes to remedy my deficiencies... I wish I had my head out of my but back in the day and listened to my pop. Funny how that works... |
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As an engineering manager and 21 years of experience in my field, my engineering technology degree has served me just fine. The engineers (with real engineering degrees, as some of you put it) working for me are so smart they can't put practical cost effective thoughts in any of their designs. It's not the sheep skin...it's the ability to be effective and develop elegant solutions to complex problems. Employers and peers ultimately judge you on real world worth, not pedigree, if making money is their plan. No one asks me what my degree is when I am making presentations to industry forums and workshops. Either is fine if your children have drive, enthusiasm and a mindset for constant learning and improvement. The path to a P.E. does differ state to state depending on ET or E degree.
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Engineers conceptualize the design and the Engineer Tech takes that concept and draws it up or manufactures it. pretty much. design guys give me a print, i tell them if it is buildable, we work on the design and i build a prototype. test engineers validate it, and I make a production prototype and develop a manufacturing process and the tooling to build it, the equipment and my work instructions are then transfered to a plant where highschool dropout operators make the thing |
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Engineers conceptualize the design and the Engineer Tech takes that concept and makes it work draws it up or manufactures it. That's how it is/was in my working world. And allowed me into occupying an office as the job of an engineer - however I never called myself an engineer. 
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What an ET learns in school is heavily dependent on what school it is.
In CA a ET can take the EIT and get his PE. The calculus is not as intensive in the core classes. ME here from cal poly and we made fun of the ET guys but in the real world they can do 80% of what an ME can. ET is supposed to be a more practical application of engineering principles vs theory and research. With an ET degree you probably wont be working at JPL or NASA but you can be a successful engineer and everyone i know that went ET got a job as an engineer right after school. But i have seen other programs that i would call a joke and barely require algebra, research the school your kid will be going to. Make sure the program is accredited and talk to the local employers to see what they say about the graduates if you want a good gauge of how your kid will do in the real world after graduation. |
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I'll respectfully disagree - a BSMET or BSIT from Cal Poly is well respected on the west coast as Cal Poly is usually in the top 10 undergrad schools in the Western US (if not nationwide). I got my EIT my last year of college, never needed my PE. At least one friend (different guy) from Cal Poly with a BSMET has earned his PE - don't recall the specialty. Hell, another friend has his PE and he got a BS Ag Eng from Cal Poly - his family's business is buildiing systems/tenant improvements. Quoted:
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Engineering tech is the same as an English degree.... Get a real degree and get a real job. Tell that to my friend who is the Director of Engineering, West Coast for a major pool equipment manufacturer - he has a Mech Eng Technology degree from Cal Poly. Or his brother who is Director of Fabrication for the largest pistachio grower in CA (country?) - with a Industrial Technology degree from Cal Poly. Both make very good money - neither have a PE, neither need a PE. I didn't say they needed a PE. They need a real degree. Perhaps your friends got lucky. I got my EIT however for my position I don't need my PE. I'll respectfully disagree - a BSMET or BSIT from Cal Poly is well respected on the west coast as Cal Poly is usually in the top 10 undergrad schools in the Western US (if not nationwide). I got my EIT my last year of college, never needed my PE. At least one friend (different guy) from Cal Poly with a BSMET has earned his PE - don't recall the specialty. Hell, another friend has his PE and he got a BS Ag Eng from Cal Poly - his family's business is buildiing systems/tenant improvements. Yep, I guess we will just have to disagree. But as a hiring manager with the largest commercial vehicle manufacturer company in the world, I can tell you I won't even interview them. Neither will my peers. Additionally, it is company policy that you can not be a manager without a 4 year degree. So you are very limited in my company as an engineering tech. |
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Well this is how I did it....
2yr pseudo engineering degree in material science Went to work doing construction as a structural welder.. Tested up to pipe, then code while I was saving cash for more school. Ended up Hanging around the welding inspector, and other ndt guys Found it interesting and took a job doing ndt Worked while going back to school nights and weekends. Finished the requirements for a me after 3 years Continued to do ndt for a small but busy firm. The owner passed away, and the wife was going to shut it down.... so I bought the company. That was 10 yrs ago, we're still in business, and I'm pulling 100k plus Between salary, bonus, and profit sharing. The company also covers 100% of the insurance for all employees and family, and a membership to our local range Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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The easy way to tell the difference is the ABET accreditation of the program and if the program requires differential equations.
Engineering technology is now a 4-year degree, but the program will be significantly easier, with less theoretical subjects and more practical application-type classes. The difference? While some techs may design small things, most will find themselves working under an engineer and with limited chances to innovate. The engineer's pay will also be significantly higher (if not double) that of the engineering technician for the same years of experience. I currently have two underlings. One is a 23yo who just graduated in May with his bachelors in mechanical engineering from a decent, but not top-20, school. The other is a 60yo with a bachelors in engineering technology from a minor campus of a state university, he also has an MBA. They each get paid $53k/yr. The difference? I trust the former with complex tasks that require independent thought, creative/unique solutions and limited oversight from me, and he will be making $90k/yr by the time he's 30. As someone who has been on the other side of the recruiting chair, I cannot stress the importance of a good program. While 2+2 programs may be cheaper cost-wise, the engineering curriculum from quality universities will not be compatible with such a program. 4-year programs will be paced to push the students to the limit, while teaching everything they need to know about the subject with the general ed courses being their easy grades each semester and also making sure they are fresh on a subject, not taking differential equations 2 years prior and trying to remember it, etc. A 2+2 program tries to take those 4 years of successive engineering classes (usually each of which normally requires one or two classes from the previous semester as a prerequisite) and cram them into 4 semesters, after having 4 semesters of the easy classes. The other advantage of 4-year programs is you get exposed to the discipline early, while also being weeded out. If you take all of your general education classes early, then find you don't like ____ engineering in your first semester at the university (or, aren't able to hack it), you're screwed because your options to change to a different program will be limited and you may have to enroll as a part time student due to prerequisites and pacing. Look at the rankings for the discipline your son wants to study, and see if he can get into any of the top-20 4-year engineering programs. Do what it takes to afford it, maybe ROTC, loans, grants, scholarships, working in the summer and winter, internships, etc. Kharn |
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To be an actual engineer, your discipline should end in "engineering". Civil, Mechanical, Chemical, Nuclear, Textile, Electrical, that sort of thing The only exception is "Industrial Engineering"
Hope scholarship will help him out quite a bit, but keep in mind that the GPA threshhold to get Hope money is a bit higher for engineers. Best wishes to him. |
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Yep, I guess we will just have to disagree. But as a hiring manager with the largest commercial vehicle manufacturer company in the world, I can tell you I won't even interview them. Neither will my peers. Additionally, it is company policy that you can not be a manager without a 4 year degree. So you are very limited in my company as an engineering tech. I have first hand experience with this... I have 10 engineers reporting to me, I do the job as an engineer, but HR makes me have a different title than my peers. Hence me taking night classes to get the box checked... |
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I don't think an engineering technology degree is an engineering degree. It doesn't require the same level of math and is not as valued as an engineering degree. This is generally accepted as truth. However, experience, intelligence, motivation, and the ability to work with people also count in the long run. I work with an EE who went to Devry 20+ years ago. He has more than proven his right to the title senior engineer. That being said, in a tight job market, the BSEE will usually do better than an Engineering Technology degree and not many people with BSET degrees rise to senior engineer roles. Depending on your major a PE is not required for many jobs although it is a plus. BTW you can make your own sort of "2+2" by taking stuff like Literature, History, and stuff like that at a community college, then transferring to the 4 year school for all of the math, science, engineering, etc. I knew a number of people who did that. Check with four year schools that have programs that your youngster is interested in and ask about transferring credits for classes other than math, science, and engineering. You can also take some of the non-core engineering and science courses at a community college and transfer the credit. Things like chemistry for EEs, or "intro to electronic circuits" for civil engineers are usually easy to transfer. |