[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Boxing vs. MMA (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 9/14/2013 10:01:58 PM EDT
|
Since the rise of MMA via the UFC over the past 10-15 years, some people contend that boxing is at an end. MMA is more exciting to watch with headkicks, takedowns and chokes in addition to the classic fist delivered knockout. It is boxing and then some. It's far more dynamic and intensely more unpredictable than boxing. That's what makes it so exciting, besides the fact that it's man on man warfare, which we all love to watch. But it will never make boxing obsolete. You want to know why? Two words- Tradition and money, emphasis on the latter. The money is in boxing. Here's an example: Floyd Mayweather fought tonight, the purse for this victory was between 40 and 90 million depending on PPV revenue, but $40 mil was guaranteed. Anderson Silva, an MMA athlete equal to Mayweather in dominance in his weight class over the competition in his sport, received $3.5 million for his last win. Both are in their late 30's, both coming down from a stellar career as the top dogs in their sport. Mayweather is rich... Silva is not. Boxing has been around for over a century and in a nutshell, is diversified. MMA is relatively new and is lorded over by Dana White, a complete cocksnot twatsniffling asshole. His story is a thread in itself, so I won't elaborate here. But the fact of the matter is; boxing is going nowhere. It's a sport that makes huge numbers and has a tremendous following, and can rocket a nobody into superstardom... and people like that. MMA isn't going anywhere either. It's popularity continues to grow, though not quite as fanatically as it has over the first couple decades, but it's here to stay. The two will continue to exist side by side, ironically completely separate as combat sports. |
|
I've always contended that they are as different as basketball is to football.
Stand up and use the fists only, like a man, and there are only a couple of MMA fighters who could last 3 rounds. Land one punch and then fall on the mat and wrestle around, that's MMA. Kick boxing is the real MMA. |
|
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed.
UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. |
|
Quoted: I've always contended that they are as different as basketball is to football. Stand up and use the fists only, like a man, and there are only a couple of MMA fighters who could last 3 rounds. Land one punch and then fall on the mat and wrestle around, that's MMA. Kick boxing is the real MMA. Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three basic sources: Western boxing, Muy Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Boxing and mma are as similar as basketball is to football due to the athleticism required, but actually moreso do to the overlap in one of the primary techniques. Anderson Silva would probably lose a boxing match with Floyd Mayweather. And conversely, Mayweather would get his ass kicked in an mma bout. They're vastly different sports.
|
|
Quoted:
Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three four basic sources: Western boxing, Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling. FIFY |
|
Quoted:
Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three basic sources: Western boxing, Muy Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Boxing and mma are as similar as basketball is to football due to the athleticism required, but actually moreso do to the overlap in one of the primary techniques. Anderson Silva would probably lose a boxing match with Floyd Mayweather. And conversely, Mayweather would get his ass kicked in an mma bout. They're vastly different sports. Quoted:
Quoted:
I've always contended that they are as different as basketball is to football. Stand up and use the fists only, like a man, and there are only a couple of MMA fighters who could last 3 rounds. Land one punch and then fall on the mat and wrestle around, that's MMA. Kick boxing is the real MMA. Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three basic sources: Western boxing, Muy Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Boxing and mma are as similar as basketball is to football due to the athleticism required, but actually moreso do to the overlap in one of the primary techniques. Anderson Silva would probably lose a boxing match with Floyd Mayweather. And conversely, Mayweather would get his ass kicked in an mma bout. They're vastly different sports. Exactly. Do you, or anyone else, remember Ali fighting that asshole who just laid on his back and kicked Ali's knees the entire fight? "Fight"... HA! Sure wrecked Ali's knees though. But it was in no way boxing. |
|
Quoted:
Bwahaha! "Yeah, boxers will win in a boxing match as long as you remove the elements of a REAL fight!" Bwahahaha!!! Take em down and ruin an arm. I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. ETA: You can’t seriously suggest that the UFC is like a real fight. They have all kinds of goofy rules just like boxing. In fact, most are taken directly from boxing so they can get fights sanctioned by boxing commissions. |
|
Quoted: FIFY Quoted: Quoted: Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three four basic sources: Western boxing, Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling. FIFY No, three. Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. And those with no experience in Greco Roman fare just fine with a purple or brown belt in BJJ.
|
|
Quoted:
I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. Quoted:
Quoted:
Bwahaha! "Yeah, boxers will win in a boxing match as long as you remove the elements of a REAL fight!" Bwahahaha!!! Take em down and ruin an arm. I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. I think what's not being understood is that, on MANY occasions over the years, you still haven't figured out that what you're writing has been proven to be absurdly untrue. Many times. Go spend a few moments watching some youtube videos. |
|
Quoted:
Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. When I trained BJJ I saw college level wrestlers with no BJJ experience wreck BJJ purples and give the BBs a hard time. Totally different disciplines.. |
|
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Would you consider these two "real martial artists"? We are comparing apples to oranges here. UFC fighters are well rounded fighters. You could go and say that a UFC fighter outclasses a boxer in grappling and wrestling, convince a boxer to take them on and they don't get to use their fists..... 
Royce Gracie Lyoto Machida |
|
Quoted:
I think what's not being understood is that, on MANY occasions over the years, you still haven't figured out that what you're writing has been proven to be absurdly untrue. Many times. Go spend a few moments watching some youtube videos. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bwahaha! "Yeah, boxers will win in a boxing match as long as you remove the elements of a REAL fight!" Bwahahaha!!! Take em down and ruin an arm. I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. I think what's not being understood is that, on MANY occasions over the years, you still haven't figured out that what you're writing has been proven to be absurdly untrue. Many times. Go spend a few moments watching some youtube videos. Post up links of comparable boxers & mma fighter going at it. I’ll wait. |
|
Quoted: MMA is young, boxing is old. Usually one has more money than the latter. Unless boxing has a big comeback, MMA will phase it out and the big purses will be in MMA. I agree in your point thought, boxing still dwarfs MMA in terms of dollars But boxing has not even suffered a minor setback. There is no comeback required because it's never gone away. The money is in boxing, period. The big purses will not come to mma with the UFC running the show. There have been upstarts, they've been bought. When fighters sign in to the UFC, Dana White becomes their manager. That means that all endorsements, all contracts, all business goes through him. He pays the fighters a percentage and sometimes it amounts to 0.
|
|
Quoted: When I trained BJJ I saw college level wrestlers with no BJJ experience wreck BJJ purples and give the BBs a hard time. Totally different disciplines.. Quoted: Quoted: Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. When I trained BJJ I saw college level wrestlers with no BJJ experience wreck BJJ purples and give the BBs a hard time. Totally different disciplines.. Well I'd have to say that due to it's popularity, BJJ gyms have sprung up everywhere. And not all purple belts are created equal. Don't forget the business aspect.
 |
|
Quoted:
When I trained BJJ I saw college level wrestlers with no BJJ experience wreck BJJ purples and give the BBs a hard time. Totally different disciplines.. Quoted:
Quoted:
Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. When I trained BJJ I saw college level wrestlers with no BJJ experience wreck BJJ purples and give the BBs a hard time. Totally different disciplines.. Agreed, the plus for the bjj guy though is being comfortable fighting on their back after the wrestler takes them down. But they are different. |
| $ doesn't equate to popularity say tommorrow gayweather retires and manny retires then what? You have old wash up against old wash up or new scrub no one has heard of vs other new scrub. Good luck getting anyone to watch that. Also I hate gayweather his crap attitude dancing around and the stupid amount of $ he gets paid for dancing around is retarded. |
|
Quoted: Where is all of the money coming from to pay the sort of purse the boxers receive? Most everyone I know watches the UFC and has at one time or another purchased a ppv, but I can count on 1 hand the number of boxing fans I know. You assume the same amount or more isn't being generated by UFC PPV fights. It is. The contracts are configured... differently.
|
|
Quoted:
Would you consider these two "real martial artists"? We are comparing apples to oranges here. UFC fighters are well rounded fighters. You could go and say that a UFC fighter outclasses a boxer in grappling and wrestling, convince a boxer to take them on and they don't get to use their fists.....
Royce Gracie Lyoto Machida Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Would you consider these two "real martial artists"? We are comparing apples to oranges here. UFC fighters are well rounded fighters. You could go and say that a UFC fighter outclasses a boxer in grappling and wrestling, convince a boxer to take them on and they don't get to use their fists.....
Royce Gracie Lyoto Machida I would consider those two “real martial artists”. You won’t see either of them fighting boxing champions in their weight class. Most mma fighters are no where close to as well rounded as your examples though. You could have included Silva too. Yes those guys would submit a boxer on the ground, i'll give you that. |
|
Theogenes 1425, Opponents 0.
Here ya go. Kill or knock-out 1425 men, then you can go free. This guy was tough. http://www.flickr.com/photos/archaicwarrior/710146565/in/photostream/ "By acient Greek boxing rules each combatant was tied to a granite block, so they sat facing one another. They would then fight until one was unconcious or dead. The cestus was a lead covering held over the knuckles by thongs, thus is how the skill was proven. The greatest of these was Theogenes, who killed 1425 of his opponents." 
|
|
Quoted:
Post up links of comparable boxers & mma fighter going at it. I’ll wait. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bwahaha! "Yeah, boxers will win in a boxing match as long as you remove the elements of a REAL fight!" Bwahahaha!!! Take em down and ruin an arm. I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. I think what's not being understood is that, on MANY occasions over the years, you still haven't figured out that what you're writing has been proven to be absurdly untrue. Many times. Go spend a few moments watching some youtube videos. Post up links of comparable boxers & mma fighter going at it. I’ll wait. I'm on a phone and lazy. You familiar with James Toney? How about Randy Couture? Cause one's a boxer and one ain't. You'll have to do the leg work on the others cause I'm not the one telling lies. |
|
Quoted:
I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. ETA: You can’t seriously suggest that the UFC is like a real fight. They have all kinds of goofy rules just like boxing. In fact, most are taken directly from boxing so they can get fights sanctioned by boxing commissions. Quoted:
Quoted:
Bwahaha! "Yeah, boxers will win in a boxing match as long as you remove the elements of a REAL fight!" Bwahahaha!!! Take em down and ruin an arm. I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. ETA: You can’t seriously suggest that the UFC is like a real fight. They have all kinds of goofy rules just like boxing. In fact, most are taken directly from boxing so they can get fights sanctioned by boxing commissions. I would suggest that UFC is much more like a real fight, fights generally go to the ground just as they do in the UFC. |
|
Quoted:
Since the rise of MMA via the UFC over the past 10-15 years, some people contend that boxing is at an end. MMA is more exciting to watch with headkicks, takedowns and chokes in addition to the classic fist delivered knockout. It is boxing and then some. It's far more dynamic and intensely more unpredictable than boxing. That's what makes it so exciting, besides the fact that it's man on man warfare, which we all love to watch. But it will never make boxing obsolete. You want to know why? Two words- Tradition and money, emphasis on the latter. The money is in boxing. Here's an example: Floyd Mayweather fought tonight, the purse for this victory was between 40 and 90 million depending on PPV revenue, but $40 mil was guaranteed. Anderson Silva, an MMA athlete equal to Mayweather in dominance in his weight class over the competition in his sport, received $3.5 million for his last win. Both are in their late 30's, both coming down from a stellar career as the top dogs in their sport. Mayweather is rich... Silva is not. Boxing has been around for over a century and in a nutshell, is diversified. MMA is relatively new and is lorded over by Dana White, a complete cocksnot twatsniffling asshole. His story is a thread in itself, so I won't elaborate here. But the fact of the matter is; boxing is going nowhere. It's a sport that makes huge numbers and has a tremendous following, and can rocket a nobody into superstardom... and people like that. MMA isn't going anywhere either. It's popularity continues to grow, though not quite as fanatically as it has over the first couple decades, but it's here to stay. The two will continue to exist side by side, ironically completely separate as combat sports. Boxing is still able to make super fights happen for large payouts but that doesn't actually mean that the sport as a whole is not rotting. Besides the super fights few people care and even fewer have any idea who is next in line for any meaningful title. The UFC is to MMA what the NFL is to football and that centralization is one of the reasons that MMA is so massive and because boxing lacks this centralization it is not able to compete on a broad scale especially when it comes to marketing brands that are tangential to the sport such as clothing. The UFC has shown the ability to make brand partners lots of money and boxing hasn't been nearly as successful at that. If you go into an American sports bar you will likely find many people who can name four or more current UFC champions but few that would be able to get close to the same number of current boxing champs. And while Mayweather may make more from his fights and be a sports star Anderson Silva (who is sponsored by Nike) is not just a sports hero around the world but a national hero in Brazil the likes of which Mayweather could never hope to achieve here. In the same way that no NFL stars get paid 40mil a game but the NFL as a brand and football as a sport dwarf boxing so too the UFC as a brand and MMA as a sport is plowing over boxing which is still an art but not a dynamic sport as it used to be viewed. |
|
Quoted:
I would consider those two “real martial artists”. You won’t see either of them fighting boxing champions in their weight class. Most mma fighters are no where close to as well rounded as your examples though. You could have included Silva too. Yes those guys would submit a boxer on the ground, i'll give you that. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Would you consider these two "real martial artists"? We are comparing apples to oranges here. UFC fighters are well rounded fighters. You could go and say that a UFC fighter outclasses a boxer in grappling and wrestling, convince a boxer to take them on and they don't get to use their fists.....
Royce Gracie Lyoto Machida I would consider those two “real martial artists”. You won’t see either of them fighting boxing champions in their weight class. Most mma fighters are no where close to as well rounded as your examples though. You could have included Silva too. Yes those guys would submit a boxer on the ground, i'll give you that. Royce Gracie is one of the least well rounded guys out there. He's a BJJ guy by and large. He tapped out a boxer in UFC 1 that had a substantial weight advantage over him. Quick. Royce was never really that good, he got his shit tossed by Matt Hughes when Matt was on his decline. Boxers are the EASIEST to take down. |
|
Quoted:
I've always contended that they are as different as basketball is to football. Stand up and use the fists only, like a man, and there are only a couple of MMA fighters who could last 3 rounds. Land one punch and then fall on the mat and wrestle around, that's MMA. Kick boxing is the real MMA. I agree.......and nail the fucker before he figures out what's coming. Who wants to go back and forth and roll around on the ground? Fuck that. |
|
Quoted:
I would suggest that UFC is much more like a real fight, fights generally go to the ground just as they do in the UFC. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bwahaha! "Yeah, boxers will win in a boxing match as long as you remove the elements of a REAL fight!" Bwahahaha!!! Take em down and ruin an arm. I think what is not understood is the fact that many, if not most, professional boxers would KO a mma fighter before they could be taken down. Once on the mat, yes a boxer would likely lose but it is not a forgone conclusion that they would ever be place there. ETA: You can’t seriously suggest that the UFC is like a real fight. They have all kinds of goofy rules just like boxing. In fact, most are taken directly from boxing so they can get fights sanctioned by boxing commissions. I would suggest that UFC is much more like a real fight, fights generally go to the ground just as they do in the UFC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S9ax693Bw0 |
|
Quoted: Boxing is still able to make super fights happen for large payouts but that doesn't actually mean that the sport as a whole is not rotting. Besides the super fights few people care and even fewer have any idea who is next in line for any meaningful title. The UFC is to MMA what the NFL is to football and that centralization is one of the reasons that MMA is so massive and because boxing lacks this centralization it is not able to compete on a broad scale especially when it comes to marketing brands that are tangential to the sport such as clothing. The UFC has shown the ability to make brand partners lots of money and boxing hasn't been nearly as successful at that. If you go into an American sports bar you will likely find many people who can name four or more current UFC champions but few that would be able to get close to the same number of current boxing champs. And while Mayweather may make more from his fights and be a sports star Anderson Silva (who is sponsored by Nike) is not just a sports hero around the world but a national hero in Brazil the likes of which Mayweather could never hope to achieve here. In the same way that no NFL stars get paid 40mil a game but the NFL as a brand and football as a sport dwarf boxing so too the UFC as a brand and MMA as a sport is plowing over boxing which is still an art but not a dynamic sport as it used to be viewed. Yep, the UFC is a worldwide, proficiently run and aggressive corporation. They are huge, on that I will not argue. But spend some time in the gym, with the guys that are especially good with their hands, and listen to what the guys in the know tell them: "If you want to make the bank, box". Many pursue mma because it's so much more fun. But it's a passion, not to be confused with a career choice. The money is in boxing. That's it!
|
|
Quoted:
Royce Gracie is one of the least well rounded guys out there. He's a BJJ guy by and large. He tapped out a boxer in UFC 1 that had a substantial weight advantage over him. Quick. Royce was never really that good, he got his shit tossed by Matt Hughes when Matt was on his decline. Boxers are the EASIEST to take down. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Would you consider these two "real martial artists"? We are comparing apples to oranges here. UFC fighters are well rounded fighters. You could go and say that a UFC fighter outclasses a boxer in grappling and wrestling, convince a boxer to take them on and they don't get to use their fists.....
Royce Gracie Lyoto Machida I would consider those two “real martial artists”. You won’t see either of them fighting boxing champions in their weight class. Most mma fighters are no where close to as well rounded as your examples though. You could have included Silva too. Yes those guys would submit a boxer on the ground, i'll give you that. Royce Gracie is one of the least well rounded guys out there. He's a BJJ guy by and large. He tapped out a boxer in UFC 1 that had a substantial weight advantage over him. Quick. Royce was never really that good, he got his shit tossed by Matt Hughes when Matt was on his decline. Boxers are the EASIEST to take down. Yes, he wasn't really a well rounded fighter. Most MMA fighters know they have to be well rounded to be competitive in the sport. |
|
Quoted:
No, three. Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. And those with no experience in Greco Roman fare just fine with a purple or brown belt in BJJ. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three four basic sources: Western boxing, Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling. FIFY No, three. Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. And those with no experience in Greco Roman fare just fine with a purple or brown belt in BJJ. Greco is one of several Wrestling styles and coincidentally is the one that is least relevant to MMA. Folk Style (Collegiate) and Free Style Wrestling have more to do with MMA in that order. |
|
Quoted:
James Toney vs Randy Couture look it up on youtube and see what happens when a boxer goes to UFC. Quoted:
James Toney vs Randy Couture look it up on youtube and see what happens when a boxer goes to UFC. UFC hall of famer Randy Couture dominated former professional boxing world champion James Toney, submitting the mixed martial arts novice with a first-round arm-triangle choke. The white flag came 3 minutes, 19 seconds into Round 1.
I can't watch video at work, but I will google later. Love watching Couture fight! |
|
Quoted:
No, three. Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. And those with no experience in Greco Roman fare just fine with a purple or brown belt in BJJ. I have to say four. Wrestling is to BJJ what Western boxing is to Thai boxing. The two are only related insofar as there are takedowns in BJJ, just like there are punches in Thai boxing. ETA: wrestling is not a "ground game;" wrestling is a "get them to the ground and the game is over game." |
|
I always chuckle at the knuckleheads that say an MMA fighter wouldn't last 3 rounds in a boxing match.
The same goes for boxers in a UFC fight. They get taken to the mat, and after 1 minute of ground and pound the ref has to save their ass. Two different sports, different techniques, different styles, different training regiments. |
|
Quoted:
I would consider those two “real martial artists”. You won’t see either of them fighting boxing champions in their weight class. Most mma fighters are no where close to as well rounded as your examples though. You could have included Silva too. Yes those guys would submit a boxer on the ground, i'll give you that. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Would you consider these two "real martial artists"? We are comparing apples to oranges here. UFC fighters are well rounded fighters. You could go and say that a UFC fighter outclasses a boxer in grappling and wrestling, convince a boxer to take them on and they don't get to use their fists.....
Royce Gracie Lyoto Machida I would consider those two “real martial artists”. You won’t see either of them fighting boxing champions in their weight class. Most mma fighters are no where close to as well rounded as your examples though. You could have included Silva too. Yes those guys would submit a boxer on the ground, i'll give you that. I can't say I'd call Royce Gracie 'well-rounded' he was an excellent BJJ fighter, he beat guys twice his size but he was like a snake he choked guys into submission. I don't recall him ever standing up in a fight and winning, maybe he did.. but mostly he took guys to the mat.. he was awesome, a LEGEND, one of my favorite fighters. He was eventually defeated by speed, his own age, punches! He also fought when there weren't weight classes and many fighters were not well-rounded, nowadays UFC/MMA fighters all pretty much are the same, they have experience in a stand-up 'art' and a ground-game 'art' of course they vary in what they prefer and their styles but they are by far more well-rounded today then when the UFC first started! I prefer MMA due to the 'real world' style, in real fights on the streets most do not follow boxing rules, they do whatever to win the fight! |
|
Quoted: I have to say four. Wrestling is to BJJ what Western boxing is to Thai boxing. The two are only related insofar as there are takedowns in BJJ, just like there are punches in Thai boxing. ETA: wrestling is not a "ground game;" wrestling is a "get them to the ground and the game is over game." Quoted: Quoted: No, three. Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. And those with no experience in Greco Roman fare just fine with a purple or brown belt in BJJ. I have to say four. Wrestling is to BJJ what Western boxing is to Thai boxing. The two are only related insofar as there are takedowns in BJJ, just like there are punches in Thai boxing. ETA: wrestling is not a "ground game;" wrestling is a "get them to the ground and the game is over game." It's very much a ground game, as it's inefective in stand up. The only relevance is in takedown techniques. (I'm a stand up guy, in case you hadn't guessed.  ) |
|
Quoted:
Greco is one of several Wrestling styles and coincidentally is the one that is least relevant to MMA. Folk Style (Collegiate) and Free Style Wrestling have more to do with MMA in that order. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mixed martial arts is hand picking the most proficient tactics from all combat sports to create a curriculum that teaches the most effective way to win a fight. There's three four basic sources: Western boxing, Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling. FIFY No, three. Wrestling and BJJ are both ground games. It's not uncommon for fighters to have a high school wrestling background but they all must become proficient in BJJ if they're going to compete at the highest levels. And those with no experience in Greco Roman fare just fine with a purple or brown belt in BJJ. Greco is one of several Wrestling styles and coincidentally is the one that is least relevant to MMA. Folk Style (Collegiate) and Free Style Wrestling have more to do with MMA in that order. |
|
Quoted:
Only if it branches out beyond the UFC's control. They've successfully bought every start up thus far. Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't know OP, over time I wouldn't be surprised if MMA trumps boxing eventually. Only if it branches out beyond the UFC's control. They've successfully bought every start up thus far. Maybe you've already brought this up but why is the head of UFC such a douche bag? What is his problem? |
|
Quoted:
Yep, the UFC is a worldwide, proficiently run and aggressive corporation. They are huge, on that I will not argue. But spend some time in the gym, with the guys that are especially good with their hands, and listen to what the guys in the know tell them: "If you want to make the bank, box". Many pursue mma because it's so much more fun. But it's a passion, not to be confused with a career choice. The money is in boxing. That's it! Quoted:
Quoted:
Boxing is still able to make super fights happen for large payouts but that doesn't actually mean that the sport as a whole is not rotting. Besides the super fights few people care and even fewer have any idea who is next in line for any meaningful title. The UFC is to MMA what the NFL is to football and that centralization is one of the reasons that MMA is so massive and because boxing lacks this centralization it is not able to compete on a broad scale especially when it comes to marketing brands that are tangential to the sport such as clothing. The UFC has shown the ability to make brand partners lots of money and boxing hasn't been nearly as successful at that. If you go into an American sports bar you will likely find many people who can name four or more current UFC champions but few that would be able to get close to the same number of current boxing champs. And while Mayweather may make more from his fights and be a sports star Anderson Silva (who is sponsored by Nike) is not just a sports hero around the world but a national hero in Brazil the likes of which Mayweather could never hope to achieve here. In the same way that no NFL stars get paid 40mil a game but the NFL as a brand and football as a sport dwarf boxing so too the UFC as a brand and MMA as a sport is plowing over boxing which is still an art but not a dynamic sport as it used to be viewed. Yep, the UFC is a worldwide, proficiently run and aggressive corporation. They are huge, on that I will not argue. But spend some time in the gym, with the guys that are especially good with their hands, and listen to what the guys in the know tell them: "If you want to make the bank, box". Many pursue mma because it's so much more fun. But it's a passion, not to be confused with a career choice. The money is in boxing. That's it! After taking a look at some of the payouts from tonight’s card it appears that the money is only there if you are Mayweather. Canelo was only guaranteed 5mil. There were two other title fights on the card; Danny Garcia made $1.5 million for his fight against Lucas Matthysse, who made $800,000. And Ishe Smith made $250,000 to face Carlos Molina who made $100,000. None of those numbers fit the narrative that boxing is where it is at in combat sports. What they do support is that boxing has an unsustainable business model of selling super fights where a single person gets paid massively and from there the pay gets exponentially smaller. We also have to realize that in the largest sports the real money is made on endorsements and under the UFC brand MMA will continue to make monetizing endorsements for its athletes dramatically more effective than boxing is able to. Boxing as an art will surely continue to be important but it’s days as the premier combat sport are over and without a brand the ability to continue to succeed under its current business model is extremely limited. |
|
Quoted:
You assume the same amount or more isn't being generated by UFC PPV fights. It is. The contracts are configured... differently. Quoted:
Quoted:
Where is all of the money coming from to pay the sort of purse the boxers receive? Most everyone I know watches the UFC and has at one time or another purchased a ppv, but I can count on 1 hand the number of boxing fans I know. You assume the same amount or more isn't being generated by UFC PPV fights. It is. The contracts are configured... differently. No. Boxing PPV buys are significantly higher. |
|
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Holy shit. So much stupidity. |
|
Quoted: Maybe you've already brought this up but why is the head of UFC such a douche bag? What is his problem? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't know OP, over time I wouldn't be surprised if MMA trumps boxing eventually. Only if it branches out beyond the UFC's control. They've successfully bought every start up thus far. Maybe you've already brought this up but why is the head of UFC such a douche bag? What is his problem? Oh God... where to begin? There is one and only one venue in which for mma fighters to compete, the UFC. There are a few other tiny insignificant start ups but they don't matter, not since Strikeforce was absorbed. If you want to fight on the big stage, you sign a contract authored by Dana White et al. This contract binds you to the UFC as an employee and stipulates that all endeavors resulting from your status as a fighter are managed by UFC personnel. That means that any endorsements, sponsorships, commercial advertising ventures etc in your name are now managed by the UFC. In any other sport you'd have an agent. In MMA, your affairs are managed by the UFC. They are your agent. This means that your contracts are negotiated directly with the endorsing party by the UFC and they pay you a percentage to their liking. And that percentage is a pittance. Want an example? In '05 he approached our gym while he was in negotiations with EASports to create the UFC video game. He demanded that EA be authorized to use our guys in the video game as fighters for... wait for it.... ZERO compensation.  His reasoning was that they would benefit from the exposure and therefore weren't due any monetary benefits. The consequence for turning down this offer was to be blackballed from the UFC. It's the equivalent of gathering up names for an Xbox golf game from the ranks of the PGA and demanding they sign over their likeness for nothing, otherwise they won't be allowed to compete in the future. Not surprisingly, our fighters told him to fuck off. He's not quite the uber badass though, since our gym is consistently ranked in the top five in the world and regularly turns out champions, he elected to rethink his position make a new offer. Some of the guys took it, some didn't. |
|
Quoted:
I think you already know where I stand on this. Sorry again. The skill professional boxers possess in stand up fighting outclasses everyone in the UFC by a mile. Want proof? Convince a ufc fighter to fight without gloves any comparable professional boxer – no take downs, wrestling, etc allowed. UFC fighters could not even compete against a real martial artist. I enjoy watching ufc fights and will continue to do so, but they are not even close to being the best fighters out there. It is entertainment only, at that they are successful. Really? Do tell what a real martial artist is then......... |