Posted: 9/5/2013 12:24:02 PM EDT
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so I am starting the form 1 process. and have some questions
I simply wish to convert my stag arms ar15 to an sbr. The form ask for a sn#. Can I use the sn# on the lower? I have heard you have to engrave your own sn# state why you intend to make firearm. what reason would be used. I was thinking of putting "all lawful purposes". any insight? |
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so I am starting the form 1 process. and have some questions I simply wish to convert my stag arms ar15 to an sbr. The form ask for a sn#. Can I use the sn# on the lower? I have heard you have to engrave your own sn# state why you intend to make firearm. what reason would be used. I was thinking of putting "all lawful purposes". any insight? yes false "all lawful purposes" |
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I am going to attempt to get a CLEO sig. Im sure he will ask "why do you need this?" How should I reply? I dont think "Cause I want one" is gonna work. He doesn't have to agree with you. He just has to sign it saying he has no knowledge that would make it unlawful for you to own it. Politely tell him that you're doing it because you want one, and that's all that matters. |
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He doesn't have to agree with you. He just has to sign it saying he has no knowledge that would make it unlawful for you to own it. Politely tell him that you're doing it because you want one, and that's all that matters. Quoted:
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I am going to attempt to get a CLEO sig. Im sure he will ask "why do you need this?" How should I reply? I dont think "Cause I want one" is gonna work. He doesn't have to agree with you. He just has to sign it saying he has no knowledge that would make it unlawful for you to own it. Politely tell him that you're doing it because you want one, and that's all that matters. yea you are right. But if he doesn't agree with me, he has every right to refuse to sign. 
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The engraving part is just the name of the maker: You (or corporate entity if you are using that). This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. |
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This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. Quoted:
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The engraving part is just the name of the maker: You (or corporate entity if you are using that). This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. What is in the first box of the form? That is the maker. That said, I'm sure there are lots of people who don't engrave. Just sayin. |
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This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. You are "Making" the short barreled rifle that you are applying for. So your name goes down as the maker on the form, and you need your name and city, State engraved on the receiver. |
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This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. Quoted:
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The engraving part is just the name of the maker: You (or corporate entity if you are using that). This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. a. Name and Location of Original Manufacturer of Firearm (Receiver) (If prototype, furnish plans and specifications) (See Instruction 2i) This box is filled out using the original manufacturer of your lower receiver. In your case it would be: Stag Arms Anyville, AnyState USA |
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yea you are right. But if he doesn't agree with me, he has every right to refuse to sign. Quoted:
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I am going to attempt to get a CLEO sig. Im sure he will ask "why do you need this?" How should I reply? I dont think "Cause I want one" is gonna work. He doesn't have to agree with you. He just has to sign it saying he has no knowledge that would make it unlawful for you to own it. Politely tell him that you're doing it because you want one, and that's all that matters. yea you are right. But if he doesn't agree with me, he has every right to refuse to sign. The CLEO sign off is purely voluntary. He is under no obligation to sign it. So you need to have a good story that sounds as benign as possible. I would call and make an appointment to see him to discuss getting his approval on a BATF form. Wear a coat and tie and be clean shaven, and be as polite as possible. Explain to him that Federal and state law allows you to legally build this gun, and the BATF requires his signature before they'll approve the application. I would tell him you want to build it because you are a collector and also you like to compete in target matches that are designed around this type of gun. Also explain you have a good safe to store your guns and you're very responsible so that none of your guns will ever end up in the wrong hands. The most important thing you want to convey in this meeting is you're a responsible person. Be friendly but business like in your behavior. |
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The CLEO sign off is purely voluntary. He is under no obligation to sign it. So you need to have a good story that sounds as benign as possible. I would call and make an appointment to see him to discuss getting his approval on a BATF form. Wear a coat and tie and be clean shaven, and be as polite as possible. Explain to him that Federal and state law allows you to legally build this gun, and the BATF requires his signature before they'll approve the application. I would tell him you want to build it because you are a collector and also you like to compete in target matches that are designed around this type of gun. Also explain you have a good safe to store your guns and you're very responsible so that none of your guns will ever end up in the wrong hands. The most important thing you want to convey in this meeting is you're a responsible person. Be friendly but business like in your behavior. Quoted:
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I am going to attempt to get a CLEO sig. Im sure he will ask "why do you need this?" How should I reply? I dont think "Cause I want one" is gonna work. He doesn't have to agree with you. He just has to sign it saying he has no knowledge that would make it unlawful for you to own it. Politely tell him that you're doing it because you want one, and that's all that matters. yea you are right. But if he doesn't agree with me, he has every right to refuse to sign. The CLEO sign off is purely voluntary. He is under no obligation to sign it. So you need to have a good story that sounds as benign as possible. I would call and make an appointment to see him to discuss getting his approval on a BATF form. Wear a coat and tie and be clean shaven, and be as polite as possible. Explain to him that Federal and state law allows you to legally build this gun, and the BATF requires his signature before they'll approve the application. I would tell him you want to build it because you are a collector and also you like to compete in target matches that are designed around this type of gun. Also explain you have a good safe to store your guns and you're very responsible so that none of your guns will ever end up in the wrong hands. The most important thing you want to convey in this meeting is you're a responsible person. Be friendly but business like in your behavior. Im guessing hes signed many form 1s before if hes gun friendly. If this is the case youll just drop it off. If hes not gun friendly, well then good luck... |
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I submitted my first Form 1 back in April, so I don't know if I did it correctly yet, but I researched the instructions pretty hard and did a lot of Googling before I completed it.
For the manufacturer's info, I put entire company name, and street address. Most folks will just put the company name and city, state in that block, but if you read the Form 1 instructions, it says manufacturer's name and ADDRESS go there. In block I "other information on gun", most folks will say leave that block blank, but from what I gathered, the examiner will want you to put your maker's info there, since that is what must be engraved on the gun. So in that block I listed what will be engraved on the gun. I guess I'll find out in a year or two if I did it right. 
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doesn't the atf frown upon making a long gun an sbr or is it just long gun to pistol? I thought a virgin (other) or pistol receiver was needed to make an sbr? I think making a receiver that went through NICS background check as a "rifle" is kind of iffy for turning into a pistol receiver in order to put a <16" bbl upper on it. The safe bet is to have the stripped lower receiver listed as a pistol when it is ran through the NICS check during the purchase, if you are going to make it into a pistol during the time you're waiting for your SBR approval. And do not put a stock on it during that time, because it then becomes a rifle receiver. Turning a rifle receiver into an SBR after the SBR stamp is approved is no problem, to my knowledge. |
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I think making a receiver that went through NICS background check as a "rifle" is kind of iffy for turning into a pistol receiver in order to put a <16" bbl upper on it. The safe bet is to have the lower receiver listed as a pistol when it is ran through the NICS check during the purchase, if you are going to make it into a pistol during the time you're waiting for your SBR approval. Turning a rifle receiver into an SBR after the SBR stamp is approved is no problem, to my knowledge. Quoted:
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doesn't the atf frown upon making a long gun an sbr or is it just long gun to pistol? I thought a virgin (other) or pistol receiver was needed to make an sbr? I think making a receiver that went through NICS background check as a "rifle" is kind of iffy for turning into a pistol receiver in order to put a <16" bbl upper on it. The safe bet is to have the lower receiver listed as a pistol when it is ran through the NICS check during the purchase, if you are going to make it into a pistol during the time you're waiting for your SBR approval. Turning a rifle receiver into an SBR after the SBR stamp is approved is no problem, to my knowledge. You can register a rifle as a SBR...that's the point 
It's not "iffy", it's not legal at all. You can take a pistol and add a 16 inch barrel and stock and make it a rifle, but not the opposite. Lower receivers should be transferred as "other" letting you configure them how you want as long as you don't add a stock with an under 16inch barrel. |
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You can register a rifle as a SBR...that's the point
It's not "iffy", it's not legal at all. You can take a pistol and add a 16 inch barrel and stock and make it a rifle, but not the opposite. Lower receivers should be transferred as "other" letting you configure them how you want as long as you don't add a stock with an under 16inch barrel. Quoted:
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doesn't the atf frown upon making a long gun an sbr or is it just long gun to pistol? I thought a virgin (other) or pistol receiver was needed to make an sbr? I think making a receiver that went through NICS background check as a "rifle" is kind of iffy for turning into a pistol receiver in order to put a <16" bbl upper on it. The safe bet is to have the lower receiver listed as a pistol when it is ran through the NICS check during the purchase, if you are going to make it into a pistol during the time you're waiting for your SBR approval. Turning a rifle receiver into an SBR after the SBR stamp is approved is no problem, to my knowledge. You can register a rifle as a SBR...that's the point
It's not "iffy", it's not legal at all. You can take a pistol and add a 16 inch barrel and stock and make it a rifle, but not the opposite. Lower receivers should be transferred as "other" letting you configure them how you want as long as you don't add a stock with an under 16inch barrel. What do you mean by "register" a rifle as an SBR? Are you saying run the lower receiver through NICS check as an SBR? I didn't know they had that option. I thought you had to choose either rifle or pistol. |
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You are "Making" the short barreled rifle that you are applying for. So your name goes down as the maker on the form, and you need your name and city, State engraved on the receiver. Quoted:
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This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. You are "Making" the short barreled rifle that you are applying for. So your name goes down as the maker on the form, and you need your name and city, State engraved on the receiver. Correct. In box 4h you put: John Smith, Jacksonville, FL or if a trust put: Trust Name, Jacksonville, FL (example: "XYZ Trust, Jacksonville, FL") This is exactly what you engrave on the firearm. |
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Correct. In box 4h you put: John Smith, Jacksonville, FL or if a trust put: Trust Name, Jacksonville, FL (example: "XYZ Trust, Jacksonville, FL") This is exactly what you engrave on the firearm. Quoted:
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This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. You are "Making" the short barreled rifle that you are applying for. So your name goes down as the maker on the form, and you need your name and city, State engraved on the receiver. Correct. In box 4h you put: John Smith, Jacksonville, FL or if a trust put: Trust Name, Jacksonville, FL (example: "XYZ Trust, Jacksonville, FL") This is exactly what you engrave on the firearm. I really dont want to engrave my lower! Where would I get it refinished? |
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Quoted: I really dont want to engrave my lower! Where would I get it refinished? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. You are "Making" the short barreled rifle that you are applying for. So your name goes down as the maker on the form, and you need your name and city, State engraved on the receiver. Correct. In box 4h you put: John Smith, Jacksonville, FL or if a trust put: Trust Name, Jacksonville, FL (example: "XYZ Trust, Jacksonville, FL") This is exactly what you engrave on the firearm. I really dont want to engrave my lower! Where would I get it refinished? You have no choice. It's aluminum, so the engraving doesn't really need to be protected, and looks cool if you like the silvery font. |
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I really dont want to engrave my lower! Where would I get it refinished? Quoted:
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This is what I am getting at! Am I considered the maker of the firearm. All I am doing is putting a new barrel on. In my opinion, this does not make me a builder, just modding. But my views does not matter here, just the atf's. Is this bad info, or do you really need to have the reciever engraved. You are "Making" the short barreled rifle that you are applying for. So your name goes down as the maker on the form, and you need your name and city, State engraved on the receiver. Correct. In box 4h you put: John Smith, Jacksonville, FL or if a trust put: Trust Name, Jacksonville, FL (example: "XYZ Trust, Jacksonville, FL") This is exactly what you engrave on the firearm. I really dont want to engrave my lower! Where would I get it refinished? You don't need to refinish it. Just have it engraved. You can also engrave it on a visible part of the barrel, but that presents a problem if you change uppers or replace the barrel. The above mentioned information must be engraved, casted, stamped (impressing) or otherwise conspicuously placed or caused to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. The depth of all markings required by will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of lettering required will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases). |