Posted: 8/26/2013 11:24:38 AM EDT
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Okay, this is sort of a long shot, but can anyone school me on octagonal barrels, specifically for muzzle loaders, doubleplus for a ballpark estimate on when they first came about and when they fell out of favor?
Back story: I was at my great aunt's funeral yesterday and, as any Southerner knows, all funerals are followed by the casserole apocalypse. At one point, my cousin, brother, and I snuck off (dammit, it is too a word) to check out this older than dirt muzzle loader my cousin had found amongst (also a word. Fuck you, Google Chrome) his late mother's possessions. Now it was more rust than rifle, but it clearly was of an age where it has earned it's corrosion. It was originally a flintlock, converted to percussion. It had German writing (Texas Hill Country has traditionally been a stronghold of Alsace-Lorraine German immigrants so that's not unusual) and had decorative carving and inlays to make me fairly certain that it wasn't military issue. But the weird thing about it was that it had an octagonal barrel. And when I say that, I don't mean an octagon with a round hole in the middle. The interior of the barrel was equally octagonal. I don't think it could have possibly even used traditional rifling, but by definition it isn't a smoothbore. It has corners! Unless it shot octagonal projectiles instead of musket balls, I don't see how such a weapon could hold pressure. Now I know that there are some examples of hexagonal barrels using a slight twist to create a unique kind of rifling (Whitworth Rifle, CZ-82 pistol, etc.) but I've never heard of an octagonal variety of such a gun. And even when the Whitworth came out, flintlocks had been obsolete for decades. Sadly I didn't have even my phone to take pictures, but if anyone has even an educated guess, I'd love to hear it. |
Anything like 3 or 4?
Found the pic here: http://www.svartkrutt.net/articles/vis.php?id=30 |
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Based on what you described - German writing, carvings and rifled barrel - it would most likely be either an American Long Rifle or a German Jaeger. The earliest American rifle makers were mostly of German ancestry, including many that were German born, so inscriptions in German are not unusual. Jaegers were German hunting rifles and some are very elaborately carved. There are a lot is differences in the two but the quickest way to distinguish is length. If is is an American Long Rifle the barrel will usually be longer than 30 inches (some had a 50 inch barrel) while Jaegers had a short barrel.
http://www.longrifle.ws/ or http://www.kentuckyrifleassociation.org/ would be a good place to start. |
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Quoted:
Anything like 3 or 4? http://www.svartkrutt.net/articles/bilder/rifling/rifling_02stor.png Found the pic here: http://www.svartkrutt.net/articles/vis.php?id=30 I'm assuming 2 and 4 are showing rifling grooves. With that assumption in mind, replace the round hole with rifling in number 2, with an octagon. I don't think it had rifling grooves at all, (if it did, they were completely hidden by rust) such as in number 4, so I would best describe it as a combination of the characteristics of 2 and 3, but again, octagonal, not hexagonal. It was about the length of an M44, so I'll be reading up on Jaegers too. |
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What caliber? How long is the barrel? Flintlock or percussion? Set trigger(s) or not? What markings on lock if any? What is the stock made of? What does the butt stock look like?
Many of these OLD guns used barrels made by a local blacksmith but commercially made locks. I have one with a Joseph Manton (marked) lock (percussion) made in about 1820 to 1840. The barrel has seven VERY narrow groves and wide lands and appears to be locally made. I also have a Austrian made Zimmer Schuetzen but there's no way that you'd mistake it for anything other than a fancy target rifle! Octagon barrels were pretty much the norm up until about 1900. People believed that they were stronger and more accurate and when barrels were made by hand or bored from solid stock they were just as easy to make as round barrels but with the advent of wrapped steel, machine boring, hammer forging and the like it was easier (and cheaper) to made them out of round stock so octagon barrels have been slowly disappearing for the last 100 years. Just as a guess and without seeing it or knowing more details I'd say that your gun is almost certainly pre-WW II and VERY likely pre-1900. If it's flintlock then very likely pre-Civil War. If percussion (and not converted) then it's post 1820. I don't know when the German immigrants settled your area but guessing that it dates from about that period since it's marked in German. Maybe slightly earlier if one of them brought it with them. I THINK the main German immigration into the US was around 1860 so that's a good guess for your gun. |
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As I said, there was no means to take pictures.
As I also said, it was a flintlock, converted to percussion. Caliber is unknown to me. I'm guessing that the barrel was approximately equal to an M44 Mosin Nagant carbine's barrel, plus maybe an inch. If it had a cocking trigger, it's no longer there, but I hadn't heard of such a thing until earlier today so I didn't know to look for any evidence that there used to be one. The lock was heavily corroded and I couldn't make out any marks. I was at a funeral, though, so I wasn't putting it under a magnifying glass. The stock looked kind of like the one on this Jaeger (but in much worse shape and with a cheek piece): http://www.antiquegunlist.com/index.php/home/manufactures/foreign-made/4636-german-or-austrian-jaeger-rifle-by-lorenz-bossel-of-suhl-circa-1860-full-octagon-27-barrel It also had very similar decorative carving, checkered grips, and flowery metalwork. At one point, this had clearly been someone's pride and joy. German immigration into the Texas Hill Country predates the Texas Revolution and was especially heavy in the 1850s. |
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It does sound Germanic. You might want to send some images to the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association. The former curator at the Smithsonian now writes for a column in their magazine.
If you have images, I can also share them with the former & current editor of their magazine, Muzzle Blasts. |
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Find a ruler and measure the bore! Don't need to be accurate to 1/1000 of an inch but we do need a reasonable idea of the size. The Jaeger rifle shown in the link has a .58 caliber bore. Large bores are typical of European build Jaeger rifles. American built rifles usually have smaller bores (typically .36 to perhaps .50 caliber) but longer barrels. I have no idea how long a M44 Carbine barrel is!
If your's has squared off butt stock then it's most likely a hunting rifle. No surprise there but just wanted to verify. Does your's also have a wooden patchbox, metal patch box or none? Wooden patch boxes usually indicate earlier production. Later they could buy pre-made patch boxes and use them. Usually made of brass. If your's was flint lock and converted to percussion then I'd say that it's almost certainly pre-Civil War but hard to say how much earlier. In some areas they continued using flint locks long after percussion caps were available to save the costs of buying caps and if they were in a remote area, caps may not have been available. Percussion pellets (and later tape then caps) were invented in 1812 and widely available by about 1820. Caps were a huge benefit in wet areas since they were more water proof than exposed powder used in flint locks, but in a dry area like Texas I could understand that caps wouldn't be much of a advantage so they may have used flint long after most other areas. Your 1850 date fits well with the features on the rifle. |
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Can you find anyone that can translate the German writing? That would probably tell us a lot!
PS Do you know any of your family's history? When they came from Germany? (assuming that they did). Do you know where they landed in the US? What port? Do you know if they lived anywhere else in the US before moving to Texas? I'm thinking that there's a good chance that they lived in a German community around a sea port and that they bought the gun there before moving to Texas. Immigrants leaving Germany were only allowed to bring a VERY few possesions with them when they left Germany. One suitcase per person in about 1860 so only a slim chance that they brought the gun from Germany, at least during that period. |