Posted: 11/2/2002 2:35:32 PM EDT
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From the Budo Shoshinshu (Code of the Samurai) Daidoji Yuzan 16th Century Homes: For a samurai who is in service it is quite fitting that he should have his outer gate and guardhouse, his porch and entrance as well as his reception room, as fine as may be consistent with his income. But otherwise the other parts of the house where the wife and family live should be considered adequate if they simply keep out the rain. One should spend as little as possible on repairs and renovations. In this unsetteled world even the lord of a castle has always to keep in mind the possibility of seige, and samurai residences must be kept simple and inexpensive to build. One should refrain from building anything permanent. Weapons: Every samurai who is in service must have a supply of weapons suitable to his means. Every feudal house has its military regulation, and the proper banners and flags and helmet insignia, spear mounts, sleeve crests, and marks on baggage animals os ordered by the lord must be carefully provided for in a uniform manner. For if they have been improvised in a hurry it will be an obvious sign of carelessness and will provoke contempt and portray weakness. Servant weapons should be suitable for conflict. Some thinking that servants may never cut anybody down may be inclined to replace their blades with wood or bamboo substitutes. But even in times of peace a samurai who is cavalier about these matters is culpable if he does not provide the proper weapons to all who may serve him. Freinds: For a samurai who is in service it is important that he associates with and makes friends of only those among his colleagues who are valiant, dutiful, wise and influential. But as men of this kind are rare, he may only find one among his various aquantences on whom he can thoroughly rely in time of need. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I think someone read a "homosexual" connotation into the equation. Dang. Is that true? While the fuedal Japanese had no moral objection to homosexuality, and as a result it "would" occur between senior and student (as it did in Greece), it was hardly widespread. The vast majority of samurai were more interested in fighting arts than boys, or girls for that matter. The majority of the so called "samurai" who indulged in homosexuality, were hardly real samurai but politicians within the samurai ruling class who were born to the status but were hardly true warriors. |
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I have never really understood the fascination some people have with things Japanese in general. They are, historically, a culture that emphasizes the state over the individual to the point where they more resemble a hive of insects than anything else. They glorify suicide, objectify women and their biggest contribution to popular culture is violent, pornographic anime. In war, they have been inhumane and nearly inhuman. I have nothing against Japanese people as PEOPLE, and I have met and liked quite a few Americans of Japanese extraction. But having looked at the Japanese national culture from a historical perspective, I frankly find it distasteful. |
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Quoted: i never understood the idea of modern people looking at the samuri as something they would want to be connected with. in a land were only the samuri were alowed to own swords would they not be considered the JBT's? just a thought. You must have studied the samurai in public school huh? Many people owned swords in Japan. Craftsman, merchants, virtually anyone who could afford swords were permitted to own and wear them. However ONLY the samurai were permitted to wear the pair of swords (daisho) which was a symbol of their status. The only ban concerning swords was in the meiji restoration period 1867 where the samurai were banned from wearing swords in public. They were also pressured into not diplaying the other trappings of their samurai status (top knots, etc.) |
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Quoted: I have never really understood the fascination some people have with things Japanese in general. They are, historically, a culture that emphasizes the state over the individual to the point where they more resemble a hive of insects than anything else. They glorify suicide, objectify women and their biggest contribution to popular culture is violent, pornographic anime. In war, they have been inhumane and nearly inhuman. I have nothing against Japanese people as PEOPLE, and I have met and liked quite a few Americans of Japanese extraction. But having looked at the Japanese national culture from a historical perspective, I frankly find it distasteful. Rik, your evaluation as it concern the samurai and feudal Japan is way off the mark. 1. They NEVER emphasised the state. It didn't exist. There was NO state. Fuedal Japan was in a state of almost constant civil war for almost 900 years. What was prized over ALL was the warrior status and virtually NOTHING else. 2. They did NOT glorify suicide any more then Gordon and Shugart. What they DID glorify was sacrifice in battle, especially for the benefit of others. They also prized honor. They prized it so highly that it was more valuable than life itself. 3. The samurai onjectified women no more than any other culture. I bet you may not know there have been women samurai. There weren't many, and they had to be born into the class but they did exist. 4. Violent pronographic anime has nothing to do with the samurai class. Regarding, post meiji Japan I will agree with you on many points. I have zero respect for the Jpanese at Nanking, etc. And I have no illussion about what they were. And they were hardly samurai or proponents of samurai values. Just as modern Chinese communists are far removed from the thinking of Lao Tsu and Confucious. |
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What's with all the fascination with the samurai? It's not like anybody around here is actually ever gonna become one. For that matter, NONE of us will ever really be able to understand even a fraction of what made them the way they were. It was part of a culture that we never were and never will be a part of. [;)] |
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Quoted: Rik, your evaluation as it concern the samurai and feudal Japan is way off the mark. 1. They NEVER emphasised the state. It didn't exist. There was NO state. Fuedal Japan was in a state of almost constant civil war for almost 900 years. What was prized over ALL was the warrior status and virtually NOTHING else. The state did not exist, but before it the loyalty was totally to one's lord. The life of the individual warrior meant nothing, service to his lord was EVERYTHING. 2. They did NOT glorify suicide any more then Gordon and Shugart. What they DID glorify was sacrifice in battle, especially for the benefit of others. They also prized honor. They prized it so highly that it was more valuable than life itself. They certainly did glorify suicide, well into the 20th Century. Neither Gordon nor Shughart, when faced with being overrun, pulled out a knife and cut their guts out. 3. The samurai onjectified women no more than any other culture. I bet you may not know there have been women samurai. There weren't many, and they had to be born into the class but they did exist. I was not speaking of the samurai, I was speaking of modern Japanese culture. I was making a general statement in response to others' posts in your thread, not specifically addressing the samurai. Regarding, post meiji Japan I will agree with you on many points. I have zero respect for the Jpanese at Nanking, etc. And I have no illussion about what they were. And they were hardly samurai or proponents of samurai values. Just as modern Chinese communists are far removed from the thinking of Lao Tsu and Confucious. I will agree that the hive culture mentality is more symptiomatic of post Meiji Japan, but the fanatical devotion to the local authority figure was there even in feudal Japan, to much more of an extent than it was in feudal Europe. |
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Quoted: The state did not exist, but before it the loyalty was totally to one's lord. The life of the individual warrior meant nothing, service to his lord was EVERYTHING. Now THAT part is true. The word samurai means "to serve." They are unique in the standard of loyalty and duty they valued and displayed. They certainly did glorify suicide, well into the 20th Century. Neither Gordon nor Shughart, when faced with being overrun, pulled out a knife and cut their guts out. You are just not grasping this or you are combining ideals and concepts. The samurai, in battle, did NOT pull out a knife and kill themselves either. But like Gordon and Shugart they would fight against impossible odds and for the same reasons. The notion of samurai committing seppuke in battle is mostly American myth. The exception be a clearly defeated general who would take his own life rather than be killed by a enemy soldier. The most common use of seppuke was either ordered as attonement for a crime or self motivated to atone for a act of dishonor. I was not speaking of the samurai, I was speaking of modern Japanese culture. I was making a general statement in response to others' posts in your thread, not specifically addressing the samurai. Again, modern Japan has virtually nothing in common with the samurai heritage. I will agree that the hive culture mentality is more symptiomatic of post Meiji Japan, but the fanatical devotion to the local authority figure was there even in feudal Japan, to much more of an extent than it was in feudal Europe. The devotion to duty and honor was also more highly refined in feudal Japan than in comparisson to Europe. It is what made them unique and facinating. |
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Quoted: What's with all the fascination with the samurai? It's not like anybody around here is actually ever gonna become one. For that matter, NONE of us will ever really be able to understand even a fraction of what made them the way they were. It was part of a culture that we never were and never will be a part of. [;)] By the same token I doubt you could fully comprehend or appreciate: MacArthur Patton Erwin Rommel The Green Berets The Navy SEALs Delta The reason for the "facination with samurai" is the same. They are unique and uncommon. They are unlike ordinary men. You will probably NEVER fully understand them because we are NOT the same as them. Who here would actually die over honor? But we can learn from them by being aware of their values. The same way we can learn from men like Alvin York. It won't make us exactly like them, but it will make us better than ourselves. That is the point of recorded history. |
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Quoted: ah steyraugsan, you know much. we know skoshi. me only live in okinawa, one year. see no guns. you lika nippon dena you carry ass there, OK. me granfadder killa all japanese he see. very good man. no lika people sympathize with da enemy. you needa move. If you lived in Kyushu you should know MORE. 1. My post was concerning feudal Japan specifically samurai views, not Okinawa or post war Japan. 2. You WON'T see any guns in Oki or Honshu. They are banned since the war (mostly our idea). Currently modern Japanese register swords in much the same way WE register machine guns in THIS country. 3. You grandfather gets a nod of respect. Mine was busy shooting down the Luftwaffe but I imagine they'd have gotten along. Again, the Japanese of WWII had virtually NOTHING in common with their samurai ancestors. 4. I don't sympathize with the Japanese of WW2, I simply know a bit about their history. We should have dropped 3 A bombs on them. Now please, go back and re read what I read and quit mentally substituting your assumptions of what you "think" I wrote into my statements. |