Posted: 9/23/2002 8:38:04 AM EDT
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After I read 'Brotherhood of Darkness' by Dr. Stanley Montieth my opinion of Franklin Roosevelt completely changed. The evidence strongly suggests he was rotten to the core. Everyone's got an opinion on him, what's yours? |
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I agree on the socialization part. On the flipside, he is the last prez (Other than GWB) to have such a load on his shoulders. The economy in the crapper, Europe getting trashed, allies yelling for help, Pearl Harbor,... I take that back. Klinton had the largest load on his shoulders if he had old Monica... nevermind, that comment will cause a lock! |
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I've not read the book, so I don't know what it says about FDR, but from what I know he was a politician, much like all the others. Did some good, screwed up some, and much of what he did was meaningless in the long run----just like all the others [:D] The extreme right wing still considers him a devil for the social programs incepted during his administration. The extreme left wing still hates him for not giving the Soviets all of Europe after the war. Seems to me that his greatest asset was being able to unite and rally the country during WW2. His greatest defect was thinking he could handle Joe Stalin, when in fact Stalin was handling him. I'm sure you'll hear much vituperation in other responses. The above is just one guy's opinion |
| He was extraordinarily evil. He did more than any other president to send the Republic into a steep dive into socialism, rather than a gentle glide. Much, much, much of what we bitch about today was begun by him, or allowed to exist as a result of his efforts. The more you learn, the more evil he is going to become in your mind. |
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From what I can gather, most economists agree that his social programs caused the Depression to last longer than it should have. However, if I recall correctly, even he didn't want the social programs to last more than maybe a decade. Supposedly he made it so the buildings were crappy so they wouldn't last long. However, I suppose someone fixed/improved them since they're still around today. |
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Franklin Rooseveltski was the best friend the Soviets ever had. He sent the Democrat party down the commie road it has run to this day. The laugh is, he wasn't even a Democrat. The only reason he ran as a Democrat in Dutchess County was the Republican party was already taken up. He needed an opening. Some of his socialism comes from the thinking prevalent among the idle rich, but more from his resentment of not being chosen for one of the clubs at Harvard. He wanted to get back at those of the class which snubbed him. He said "No American mother's son is going to fight on foreign soil." MEanwhile troops were already on their way, and plans for more in process. (Whenever the creeps criticize Bush over talking about the war, I compare it to the lying of Roosevelt) One could go on, but I guess you get the idea. |
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Well, just look at your paycheck. Or what's left of it, to know what effect FDR still has on the country. Who knows, maybe 40 years from now you'll actually get some of your money back. I'm not knocking social security, because a lot of people depend on it. But you'll have to admit, it's been the largest (mandatory) pyramid scheme in history and it's still going (for now)! He and Congress did employ a lot of people (at taxpayer expense). He did have "girlfriends". I guess an ugly wife will do that to ya! He got thousands of Americans killed in a war. The Clintons seemed to idolize them. Sounds like he was a great one to me![;D] |
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In my mind, the major part of his agenda had to do with income taxes. He starts these social programs, like the WPA, with no money to pay for them. We spend a fortune in WWII and perhaps even more for the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and Japan. So, now we have 10 years of deficit spending, bond issues that need to be repaid, etc., and it comes time to pay the toll. Well, the only way to pay the bill is income taxes. It was my understanding that income tax withholdings were supposed to last only until the war debt was paid. Well, as we all know once the Feds get their hand on your pocket it stays. The end result is we're all paying between 25%-40% of our income in Fed taxes (not to mention state taxes and fees) and we are, in effect, slaves to the govt. for 6 months of the year or more. This is his legacy: Socialism. |
| FDR was, and will remain, one of the greatest of American Presidents. He was able to pick exceptional people and to give them the tools they needed to get a job done. He had no fear of big business or of Congress. He had weaknesses and failures, as all men do, but he was the right man for the time. |
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Alright... my recollection of u.s. history is shoddy, but wasn't this the bozo that introduced the "machine gun tax stamp"? If not, i apologize for slandering his name.... if he was the ahole that did it... [-!-] him! edited to add: Hey, when did we lose the finger smileys? |
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FDR did a lot of damage to the country, no question. Made the Federal Government resposible for all sorts of entitlements that the Constitution doesn't give it authority to handle. He seized control of the money supply by outlawing the ownership of gold. Imagine that: from 1932 to 1971 it was illegal to own gold bullion or coins in the US. There's nothing wrong with deficit spending in a recession, but he either couldn't understand or refused to implement the fiscal policies of John Maynerd Keynes to help reinflate the economy. His WPA and NRA programs didn't go far enough. |
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Quoted: If he is as bad as most say, why does the war generation revere and idolize him so much? I can't understand it. They only base their opinions on what they know, and they like all humans, are subject to propaganda. Unfortunately for them, media outlets at that time were were few, and some could be biased by federal power (radio licensing). Many old folks now, don't care about facts, they are just nostalgic for the past. Not because it was really all that good, but because they were young... |
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He wasn’t [b]"bad"[/b]. He was a great president and great leader…a quality seriously lacking in some of our modern presidents. [b][u]Now[/u] that I have your attention…[/b] [;)] As a preface to my comments, let it be known that I am a VERY strongly conservative, gun totin' Republican, and DAMN proud of it. I am also a historian by education. With that in mind...let's go! First of all, all of you FDR bashers are viewing him and his record and the historical context through 21st century eyes. This is not a flaming, since we all do this to an extent, but as you consider a historical figure and begin a critique of his/her record, it might be a good idea to try and view them in the proper context and time. (FWIW, I say the same thing to liberals who whine and bitch because we nuked the Japanese. Damn fine idea...in 1945!) [b]FDR was a [u]great[/u] president for the following reasons:[/b] He was the catalyst in getting the congress to enact a number of laws that this country really needed [b]at-the-time![/b]. That is NOT to say that certain of the programs initiated by FDR should not have been killed decades ago. Yes, he began it all, this give-away crapola, but at the time, the social welfare programs and government jobs programs were vital to helping us get out of the depression. The problem is that over the years, we haven’t had the balls to do away with any of these now-worthless programs! Before we go farther, y’all ought to know that LBJ was [b]far and away[/b] a better “New Dealer” that FDR ever THOUGHT about being. LBJ could REALLY throw some of your money around. It should be noted here too…Eleanor Roosevelt was the real socialist in that family. She was a notorious lesbian and social radical who tried to influence her husband on domestic issues at every turn. Historians have only recently pointed out that FDR gave her the jobs that he did to get her the hell out of Washington. By anointing Eleanor as the head of these social welfare and war effort programs, FDR ensured she would be traveling all the time and out of his hair! See why Hillary = Eleanor? FDR was a [b]great[/b] wartime president and leader. He was not only well versed in military matters, he knew how to lead and manage our best military leaders. I would not envy ANY man to try and lead ADM Earnest King and General Douglas Macarthur, possibly two of the biggest military egos ever. On a grand scale, he along with Churchill realized early on that the only way democracy would be saved around the world was for the United States to enter the war and save all their asses. Worked out exactly that way…didn’t it? FDR was a very good Secretary of the Navy in the '20s. He was a good friend of my old service and saw to it that the Navy’s construction and R&D budgets did relatively well during the inter-war years, something that paid off well later. FDR was also somewhat naive and was flimflammed by Stalin at Yalta. On the other hand, it could be said that by the time of Yalta, FDR was so damn sick; the old commie bastard easily swayed him. FDR was, by all accounts, what we today call a liberal…but, he is NOT like our liberals of today. He was certainly not a laissez-faire conservative Republican, and he pressed for and got enacted far more social programs than ever before in the history of our country, [u]but[/u] he was far from being a "One World-UN Loving-I HATE America", socialist that our modern-day American liberals are today. FDR was a fiscal liberal but a social moderate and absolute patriot. He did bring into being many programs such as Social Security that we now depend upon far too much…and that require serious change or elimination, but if you look at the reasons for these “crazy” social programs initiated by the FDR administrations, you will see that they were in fact needed [b]”at the time!”[/b]. The problem we face with these social programs is that their legacy lives on and we are having a bitch of a time killing them and their progeny! FDR increased the size of the federal government far beyond anything that it had ever been before in our county’s history. The long lasting effects of that process are still being felt. Again, take a look at the relative cause and effect here. Before FDR, the federal government’s role in our lives was relatively small. Good for most of us, but terrible for some. I certainly want to get the Feds off my back, but I acknowledge the need for having a strong federal government, as long as it operates within the guidelines of the Constitution. The fly in the buttermilk is that after FDR, the following generations of liberals in government simply ratcheted up the amount of nosy-busy-bodying that the feds have done to us over the years. FDR started this unholy process…but having said that, taken in the context of 1933, it WAS necessary then. Why would you EVER say that Wilde!? [shock] Simple really: Lets go back to that time. In 1933, the world was mired in the worst depression ever. The “Isms” were on the rise all over the world. Fascism in Italy and Fascist, Bushido militarism in Japan, Communism in the Soviet Union and Nazism in Germany all began in the late ‘20s but really didn’t get going until the depression had people looking anywhere for solutions. Even here in America, Communism was on the rise, with thousands entering the Party every year. And don’t forget, these Party Cadres were under the [loose] control of the Comintern. Founded in March 1919, the Communist International, or Comintern, was a Soviet-sponsored agency to coordinate the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism worldwide. We now know that the members reported to Moscow. Since rampant, uncontrolled capitalism under the leadership of the sons of the Robber Barons had helped to bring the country to the brink of financial and economic ruin, aided and abetted by the ridiculous tariff policies of the day (Plus a host of other factors too.), people here were loathe to ask another Republican to hold the reins of power again…so FDR was elected in ’32. Some of the programs were absolutely necessary for the survival of this country. Again…before you guys have to peel yourselves off of the ceiling, take a moment to think this out: The entire world was in a deep and painful depression. People in the United States were starving to death! Back then we didn’t have the programs we have today to protect the totally indigent or the terminally broke or stupid. People just lay down on the street corner and croaked. 20% of all men were out of work. Families were broken up because Dad split not being able to cope. That is a LOT of people to be out of a job, and the ripple effect to the entire economy was terrible. Also, take a few minutes to review the history of organized labor in America then. Check out what was going on with the unions in all the major industries: Coal, steel, autos, trucking. Why did they come about? Why were the conditions so bad that unions had a fertile ground for membership? Why were some of the unions like the AFL/CIO so closely tied to the Commies? FDR walked a fine line between keeping the union thugs happy and preventing the commie takeover of the American unions. While I admire Herbert Hoover and his conservative views and ethics, FDR was a far better leader for the times. Hoover was out of touch as was the GOP. Once in office, FDR through the “cult of personality” was able to lead the country, inspire us to do better and reassure us that we would eventually come out of the depression. Admittedly, not much of what he tried worked until the war, but at least we didn’t have people dieing in the gutters. FDR was a man of the times. He was the right man at the right time. He led the Greatest Generation well. He should be remembered for that. Bottom line for me? FDR isn’t to blame for our modern-day problems. Modern day liberals are. [soapbox] |
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Quoted: Bottom line for me? FDR isn’t to blame for our modern-day problems. Modern day liberals are. I am hardly as learned as yourself on the subject, but the bottom line for me is that virtually every evil in the Country today has its roots in his bit of "statesmanship" concerning the SCOTUS. It is the foundation for many, many other things. As an aside, I continue to hear conflicting stories on the truth about whether he truly knew, and allowed, Pearl Harbor to occur. Last I heard it was "right wing whacko mudslinging" but prior to that, perhaps a year ago, I heard it was definitely released that he positively knew. I find it much easier to despise him when I think of using that tactic to get us into the war. |
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He did THIS. And subjected US to IT. [img]http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/WWII_Women/RA/NCraig/gifs/Roosevelt/ERScarySM.gif[/img] [img]http://www.si.edu/opa/researchreports/9996/shelf.gif[/img] [img]http://www.law.harvard.edu/studorgs/forum/eleanor.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.lalabor.org/Aug_17_Sweatshops/Eleanor.jpg[/img] A crime potentially as evil as his sacrifice of US servicemen at Pearl Harbor. |
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Quoted: He was the catalyst in getting the congress to enact a number of laws that this country really needed [b]at-the-time![/b]. They weren't needed then and they aren't need now. Yes, he began it all, this give-away crapola, but at the time, the social welfare programs and government jobs programs were vital to helping us get out of the depression. FDR's laws made the depression longer than it normally would be. He did bring into being many programs such as Social Security that we now depend upon far too much…and that require serious change or elimination, but if you look at the reasons for these “crazy” social programs initiated by the FDR administrations, you will see that they were in fact needed [b]”at the time!”[/b]. Again, no there weren't. They were bad then, and they are bad now, and they will be bad at any other time. Some of the programs were absolutely necessary for the survival of this country. No they weren't. They ended up destroying this country. Again…before you guys have to peel yourselves off of the ceiling, take a moment to think this out: The entire world was in a deep and painful depression. Because of the various governments. People in the United States were starving to death! Back then we didn’t have the programs we have today to protect the totally indigent or the terminally broke or stupid. People just lay down on the street corner and croaked. 20% of all men were out of work. Families were broken up because Dad split not being able to cope. That is a LOT of people to be out of a job, and the ripple effect to the entire economy was terrible. And it was the governments fault(ie the Fed) While I admire Herbert Hoover and his conservative views and ethics, FDR was a far better leader for the times. Hoover was out of touch as was the GOP. Hoover was a conservative. He was almost as bad as FDR. |
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He was the catalyst in getting the congress to enact a number of laws that this country really needed at-the-time! The "at-the-time" comment is correct! I was almost a year and two months old on Black Tuesday. Growing-up, I can remember sharing half a house (a duplex) with three other families, and two families lived in our cellar. The only way we survived was because the family grew peaches. We didn't need to borrow to buy seed or buy a tractor. Unemployment was just under 25% at one time so most days when my father and brothers left home, they came-back empty-handed. My protestant parents gave me to a priest, that was a long-time friend of my grandfather, to raise at a school he taught at. I know that was hard on them. You guys can criticize the changes FDR enacted, but at the time, they weren't enough. Of course now, they're way too much, but you're unfairly judging FDR by today's world. I wish we could undo most of what FDR did, but again, at the time, something had to be done.z |
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Despite what many people seem to think, FDR was actually a moderating influence. Those who seem to think that the labor laws enacted then were unnecessary simply need to do a little more research. It was not unusual at that time for factory owners to settle wage disputes by hiring a bunch of thugs to beatup and shoot the workers. It was not unusual at that time for workers to be paid in Company Script which could only be spent within the company stores. A vast majority of US workers were actually slaves of the company. They could not accumulate ANY wealth. Forget holding Gold, that simply was not an option anyway for most Americans. If you got in a fight (verbal or otherwise) with your boss, you got tossed out of the company housing. Since the only money that you had was Comapany Script, you could not even go off to find another job. Take a look at the coins in this photo just in case you've never seen company money. [img]http://www.fototime.com/16EB8612560E2ED/standard.jpg[/img] TVA was probably the second best investment that the US ever made (the other was the GI bill). It totally changed the whole standard of living for about 25% of Americans. |
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Quoted: There's nothing wrong with deficit spending in a recession There sure is. It doesn't help the economy, but actually hurts. This is because what the government buys is taking away from the private sector to buy. Hence, there is less material for other companies to buy. They can't produce as much, and the economy sinks further. And don't forgot that government spending takes money away from the people, who could spend the money in a more efficient manner than the government. but he either couldn't understand or refused to implement the fiscal policies of John Maynerd Keynes to help reinflate the economy. Are you kidding? Keynesian economics have caused so many problems since Keynes proposed it. FDR followed lots of his advice. His WPA and NRA programs didn't go far enough. They in fact went WAY too far. They hurt the economy and made the depression last longer than it should have. They never should have been implemented in the first place. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Bottom line for me? FDR isn’t to blame for our modern-day problems. Modern day liberals are. I am hardly as learned as yourself on the subject, but the bottom line for me is that virtually every evil in the Country today has its roots in his bit of "statesmanship" concerning the SCOTUS. It is the foundation for many, many other things. As an aside, I continue to hear conflicting stories on the truth about whether he truly knew, and allowed, Pearl Harbor to occur. Last I heard it was "right wing whacko mudslinging" but prior to that, perhaps a year ago, I heard it was definitely released that he positively knew. I find it much easier to despise him when I think of using that tactic to get us into the war. BeeKeeper, Good points. I'm glad you brought the issue about the Supreme Court up. When I wrote the above tome, I declined not to include all the history of FDR's "reign", some of it VERY disturbing and unappealing for a conservative like myself. My point was to showcase the two key points that I believe elevate FDR to "greatness". His [perceived?] leadership during the Depression and his leadership during the War. Certainly neither was perfect...but if you look at those taken in the context of the times, with the very real dangers of communist revolution, even in America in the '30s, and then the war record, I think most of the FDR haters here will have to admit that maybe just those two issues were more important than all the bad shit he did. As one of my old profs noted many decades ago when [b]I[/b] was on the other side of the argument...[u]"greatness"[/u] does not imply "[u]goodness[/u]! Hannibal Barca was a "great" man, as were Stalin, Caesar, Napoleon, Henry V, Marse Robert, Lincoln, TR, Hitler, and Babe Ruth. My point is, the definition of greatness should not be related to how much we like or dislike a person, rather it should be measured by the impact the person has upon history, good OR bad. You are entirely correct in mentioning the time Roosevelt shamelessly tried to pack the SCOTUS with his cronies in order to stop The Court from finding some of his pet projects unconstitutional. He tried it...and was soundly bitch-slapped down for it, even by some members of his own party. As to Pearl Harbor. I don't think he or anyone else knew that Pearl was the target. I do believe that FDR and some of the other senior politicians in Washington and London knew that war with Japan was imminent...like 48 hours or less imminent. The intercepted Japanese diplomatic messages clearly pointed to war. Churchill may have known everything...(what/where/when) but history has not yet revealed that fact to us. There have been hints...but no solid, verifiable facts to chase down. I believe that IF Churchill DID know, he would have rightly for Britain, kept it a secret. His rationale would have been something like this: -America is going to be hit by Kido Butai no matter what. There are NO forces at sea or in port that can stop them. There is nothing anyone can do to prevent the attack -Any warning to the Americans would be seen as a breach of security to BOTH the Japanese and the Germans. Ultra and Magic would both be compromised. Prevention of that from happening was a top priority throughout the war, even leading to the bombing of Conventry without the locals being warned, when Whitehall and 10 Downing Street KNEW the exact details of the impending bombing raid by the Nazis!. -A warning if given, would only ameliorate the damage and casualties. The Japanese were going to be successful anyway. Defenses at Hawaii were inadequate to prevent the Japanese from completing their mission. -Getting America into the war must be the number one priority. Churchill and FDR both knew just how powerful America would be within a couple of years. Our industrial capacity, our large and educated population, our geographical insularity, all gave us a wonderful advantage to become the Arsenal of Democracy, unimpeded by enemy action. History has proven them right. I mean...let's face it, is there anyone out there who doesn't believe we could have whipped Hitler and Tojo all by ourselves...maybe even faster if we had not had to deal with Monty? [;D] (Gee is there an analogy here for today?) -Foreknowledge would have removed much of the rage felt by Americans associated with the "sucker punch" sneak attack. That was a powerful lever to fully get America into the war on the side of Democracy. It should be remembered that we were wavering terribly up to that point. The anti-war lobby was VERY powerful. The Selective Service Act of 1940 which created the country's first peacetime draft and formally established the Selective Service System as an independent Federal agency passed the Senate by [b]one[/b] vote! FDR had campaigned for this bill for months, fearing that if America was drawn into the war, we would be totally unprepared...and we damn near were anyway! Finally, considering the above, and since America's intervention into WW II was the ONLY thing preventing Hitler and Tojo from divvying up the world...I would'nt hold too much of a grudge against FDR for getting us into the war by purposely ignoring an impending attack. In truth, I think that may be the real reason ADM Kimmel and MGEN Short were sacrificed on the altar of war. They took the heat off of Washington. Better stop...gone too far already... |
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Several posters have stated that what FDR did was a nessecity at the time. I have a little quote for you. Perhaps it would be a good idea to reflect on this, given the necessecity of the times in which WE live in. We always seem to have some kind of "emergency" in this nation for each president. [b]"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt[/b] and another while I'm at it.... [b]"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." -- James Madison [/b] FDR was an excellent helper to the World wide communist movement, and the international bankers. Men of his choosing were also some of the prime U.S. movers and shakers that drove this country to found the United Nations..... In the "context of the times", it all makes sense, when one realizes that the "powers that be" of the time were enabeling the russian revoulution, the nazi party, Italys facisim, and Japan. Theow in a world wide (engineered), depression, and the result is world war, leading to the establishment of the UN, (world govt.). |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bottom line for me? FDR isn’t to blame for our modern-day problems. Modern day liberals are. I am hardly as learned as yourself on the subject, but the bottom line for me is that virtually every evil in the Country today has its roots in his bit of "statesmanship" concerning the SCOTUS. It is the foundation for many, many other things. As an aside, I continue to hear conflicting stories on the truth about whether he truly knew, and allowed, Pearl Harbor to occur. Last I heard it was "right wing whacko mudslinging" but prior to that, perhaps a year ago, I heard it was definitely released that he positively knew. I find it much easier to despise him when I think of using that tactic to get us into the war. BeeKeeper, Good points. I'm glad you brought the issue about the Supreme Court up. When I wrote the above tome, I declined not to include all the history of FDR's "reign", some of it VERY disturbing and unappealing for a conservative like myself. My point was to showcase the two key points that I believe elevate FDR to "greatness"...... You are entirely correct in mentioning the time Roosevelt shamelessly tried to pack the SCOTUS with his cronies in order to stop The Court from finding some of his pet projects unconstitutional. He tried it...and was soundly bitch-slapped down for it, even by some members of his own party. Just as would have happened to the "USA Patriot Act" had 9/11 NOT happened. As to Pearl Harbor. I don't think he or anyone else knew that Pearl was the target. I do believe that FDR and some of the other senior politicians in Washington and London knew that war with Japan was imminent...like 48 hours or less imminent..... His rationale would have been something like this: -America is going to be hit by Kido Butai no matter what. There are NO forces at sea or in port that can stop them. There is nothing anyone can do to prevent the attack -Any warning to the Americans would be seen as a breach of security to BOTH the Japanese and the Germans. Ultra and Magic would both be compromised. Prevention of that from happening was a top priority throughout the war, even leading to the bombing of Conventry without the locals being warned, when Whitehall and 10 Downing Street KNEW the exact details of the impending bombing raid by the Nazis!. -A warning if given, would only ameliorate the damage and casualties. -Getting America into the war must be the number one priority. (Gee is there an analogy here for today?) -Foreknowledge would have removed much of the rage felt by Americans associated with the "sucker punch" sneak attack. That was a powerful lever to fully get America into the war on the side of Democracy. It should be remembered that we were wavering terribly up to that point. Finally, considering the above, and since America's intervention into WW II was the ONLY thing preventing Hitler and Tojo from divvying up the world...I would'nt hold too much of a grudge against FDR for getting us into the war by purposely ignoring an impending attack. In truth, I think that may be the real reason ADM Kimmel and MGEN Short were sacrificed on the altar of war. They took the heat off of Washington. Better stop...gone too far already... Some excellent points were made in the totality of the above post that we should bear in mind as we contemplate the aftermath of the "attack on America" on 9/11......... |
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Quoted: LWilde, WW2 and wartime production got us out of the depression and NOT FDR's policies. In addition Adolf Hitler got Germany out of their depression and look how that turned out. You are correct about the war pulling America out of the Depression. Didn't I make that clear above? If not...thanks for reminding all of us. And yes, Hitler did pull Germany out of the Depression partly with militarization. Not the total answer though. Doesn't answer the question of FDR's perceived "badness" though. [8D] |
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Quoted: FDR was an excellent helper to the World wide communist movement, and the international bankers. Men of his choosing were also some of the prime U.S. movers and shakers that drove this country to found the United Nations..... In the "context of the times", it all makes sense, when one realizes that the "powers that be" of the time were enabeling the russian revoulution, the nazi party, Italys facisim, and Japan. Theow in a world wide (engineered), depression, and the result is world war, leading to the establishment of the UN, (world govt.). OK.....now [b]THAT[/b] is a conspiracy! [whacko] Some excellent points were made in the totality of the above post that we should bear in mind as we contemplate the aftermath of the "attack on America" on 9/11......... History repeating itself liberty? Is Dubya like FDR? A patsy for the commies? Liberty...you sure have your Master-Conspiracy-Theory Tin Hat screwed on tight today! You go dude! [;D] |
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Quoted: Quoted: FDR was an excellent helper to the World wide communist movement, and the international bankers. Men of his choosing were also some of the prime U.S. movers and shakers that drove this country to found the United Nations..... In the "context of the times", it all makes sense, when one realizes that the "powers that be" of the time were enabeling the russian revoulution, the nazi party, Italys facisim, and Japan. Theow in a world wide (engineered), depression, and the result is world war, leading to the establishment of the UN, (world govt.). OK.....now [b]THAT[/b] is a conspiracy! [whacko] Follow the $$ Some excellent points were made in the totality of the above post that we should bear in mind as we contemplate the aftermath of the "attack on America" on 9/11......... History repeating itself liberty? Is Dubya like FDR? A patsy for the commies? Liberty...you sure have your Master-Conspiracy-Theory Tin Hat screwed on tight today! You go dude! [;D] Appearances change, but the players don't..... |
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Quoted: Appearances change, but the players don't..... liberty, We have had several discussions and disagreements on subjects like this one. You have always made good arguments and offered criticisms like the ones you offer here. In all your postings however, I have yet to hear a recommendation...a solution...an original thought by you on what YOU would like to see as the socio-political makeup of our country and the world. What IS your ideal of the United States of America? What IS your ideal of the World? How do you see yourself and your fellow citizens existing in your country/world? What do YOU see as the role of government in YOUR ideal country? What do YOU see as YOUR role in YOUR ideal country? Please enlighten me and our fellow readers. I really don't understand some of your arguments. You bitch a lot about international conspriracies thoughout modern history with cryptic sayings like, "follow the money", but I have yet to hear any solution or plan to fix all that you say is wrong. I truly am curious...only a little bit of me is writing this with tongue in cheek...just in case you simply tell me to shove it...that it's too personal! Thanks. [8D] |
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and so on Friday you got paid. [IMG]http://www.fototime.com/6CE4E0CF4CCEF25/standard.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.fototime.com/13BB0E2D0806FCF/standard.jpg[/IMG] and as long as you didn't make the boss mad, you could rent the house. [IMG]http://www.fototime.com/FAFDD5FEF73147E/standard.jpg[/IMG] of course you could only buy from the Company Store. [IMG]http://www.fototime.com/7945487BD12DCFE/standard.jpg[/IMG] and since you had NO US currency, you couldn't even save up to try for a new job. [IMG]http://www.fototime.com/1D20CA87024FD0F/standard.jpg[/IMG] but that was long ago, [IMG]http://www.fototime.com/341175D685B396C/standard.jpg[/IMG] about sixty years ago. [i][b]Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. - Robert Orben[/i][/b] |
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Quoted: Quoted: There's nothing wrong with deficit spending in a recession There sure is. It doesn't help the economy, but actually hurts. This is because what the government buys is taking away from the private sector to buy. Hence, there is less material for other companies to buy. They can't produce as much, and the economy sinks further. And don't forgot that government spending takes money away from the people, who could spend the money in a more efficient manner than the government. Liberty76, why did the US go into Depression and how did it get itself out of it? We went into a depression as banks failed and the ability/willingness of the Federal Reserve to put liquidity into the economy disappeared. This deflation made real prices much lower, making wages too high for employers to keep workers on. Unemployment was at 25%. There were a lot of other harmful factors, but the main thing was that there just wasn't enough money. WWII took us out, because the government went into massive debt to finance the war. Look at a graph of public debt, and when you get to 1942, it goes straight up. All that debt, all that money, poured into our economy solving the deflationary liquidity crisis. Public spending on dams, electrification, roads and other infrastructure could have done the same job, if taken to the same extreme degree as financing WWII. Nowadays, we just print money according to monetary economic theory when there isn't enough liquidity. They didn't have that theory in the 1930's, but they DID have Lord Keynes. Whose ideas FDR paid little attention to. |
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WWII took us out [of the Great Depression] raven, you need to take a look at GNP growth by year before and after the New Deal. I think you'll change your assumption. The turn-around started long before we borrowed the billion in 1939 to build-up for WWII.z Edited to fix my bad board code. |