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Posted: 9/16/2002 9:44:33 AM EDT
In another thread it was stated by several that they would vote for a Liberal Liddy (No AK's for you) Dole even a John McCanngunshows BECAUSE they are Republican, in hopes of getting a Republican majority in the legislature. Yet Dole and McCain are known quantities. They and their ilk Repubs have shat on the First Amendment with recent CFR legislation, and have shat on the Second Amendment with gun show legislation, and a host of other anti gun rhetoric. When I intimated that my conscience would prohibit me from voting for such unConstitutional legisslators, someone even dared cite Shakesspeare against me - "Conscience doth make cowards of us all." I suppose he was trying to call me a coward or something for having firm principles that I dare not violate - NO MATTER the temporal political objective.(typical of those who are INCAPABLE of engaging in debate without attacking an insulting others) So, this raises a questions for the "vote R no matter what" crowd - [b] Would it take them (Dole, McAIN AND THEIR ILK) supporting a COMPLETE suspension of the Bill of Rights for you NOT to vote for them?[/b] Clearly, my conscience kicks in once they violate two or less amendments. What is required for the rest of you - something between 3 and 9 amendments, or a full suspension of the BoR?? Or more????
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 9:50:03 AM EDT
Lots of people have bought into the hype dished out by the republican (or democrat, for that matter) PR machine. They do not act as they say they will. Respect for the Constitution? Riiiiiiight. Smaller government? Riiiiight... Fiscally responsible? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 10:28:41 AM EDT
btt for insufficient "always vote R" response. [}:D]
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 10:42:02 AM EDT
Sorry... I have seen "btt" several times, but have no idea what it means... [>:/]
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 10:43:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: btt for insufficient "always vote R" response. [}:D]
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I guess I would look at the alternative candidate and if no better vote "R" ???
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 10:46:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2002 10:46:31 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By garandman: btt for insufficient "always vote R" response. [}:D]
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I guess I would look at the alternative candidate and if no better vote "R" ???
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Even tho that alleged "R" is KNOWN to support the violation of two amendments of the BoR????
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 11:32:52 AM EDT
Democans vs. Republicrats Foreskin Bowels or Liddy Dole... what's the difference?
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 11:37:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Emoto: Sorry... I have seen "btt" several times, but have no idea what it means... [>:/]
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BTT = Bump to Top Dole is a big government RINO. ETH posted her "new" position on Second Amendment freedoms, and it seems better than her previous one. The Senate race will come down to Dole, as a RINO, or a rabid anti-gun liberal. Those are your choices. [:(] It is up to you to decide if having GOP control of the Senate is worthwhile to you. Senate control is not just about which party has more votes, it is about controlling the debate, and introduction of legislation. I am not convinced I could force [puke] myself to vote for her. Your alternatives: 1. Vote for Dole, helps GOP, may help freedom, but don't get you hopes up... 2. Vote for the liberal, hurts freedom, and entrenches scum in the Senate. 3. Third party or write in vote. Meaningless gesture in this race. Emotionally satisfying, unless the liberal wins. Whatever you decide, make sure you get to the polls! [;)]
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 11:56:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2002 11:58:17 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 11:57:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By garandman: btt for insufficient "always vote R" response. [}:D]
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I guess I would look at the alternative candidate and if no better vote "R" ???
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Even tho that alleged "R" is KNOWN to support the violation of two amendments of the BoR????
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g. man, the truth is that I wouldn't vote.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:00:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: From a politician's standpoint, with friends like some of us . . . who needs enemas?
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Its not my job to be the politicians friend, its HIS job to be MINE. Oddly, we continue offerring anti gun politicians our friendship, tho they CLEARLY and INDISPUTABLY are not our friends.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:10:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:15:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: We have to "settle" on the lesser of two (or more) evils. That's reality--deal with it.
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Funny. I hear people say we have to settle for the "You don't need an AK" types for BOTH our politicians AND our NRA presidents. You'll kindly excuse me if I balk at "dealing with that."
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:21:05 PM EDT
Welcome to the garandman show.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:34:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:34:44 PM EDT
G-Man... Dammit we've beaten this topic to utter death on two previous threads. Most of us agree with you in principle. The problem is, like theBeekeeper says, we simply can't get our guys and gals elected! It just ain't gonna happen! That's just how our democratic republic works...majority rules. If you don't like the fact that too many folks don't understand the importance of the 2nd Amendment and our precious RKBA...then get out there and win over their hearts and minds! Better yet, run for office! Now...you can stand in the woods alone and scream your rage about the unfairness of it all until you are blue in the face but listen carefully: Ain't nobody gonna hear your raging. You can stand in front of your mirror the morning after the general election and say to yourself, "Well...I guess I showed those damn Republicans who's the BOSS! I didn't vote for ANY of their canditates!" You can feel good that you kept your honor and didn't vote for someone who didn't fully agree with you on this one issue. There's just one thing: When the fucking liberals get back into power and bend us ALL over the table because you single issue guys sat on the sideline bitching, DON'T COME COMPLAINING! You don't get to bitch about how fucked up our government is in that case...'cause you're part of the problem.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:43:12 PM EDT
You guys have NOT answered the question. CLEARLY, violation of TWO Amendments of the BoR ( 2 semi-important ones, mind you) does NOT dissuade you from voting for politicians in order to achieve your temporal political goals. So, how many is it gonna take before you WOULD NOT vote for them??? 4? 7? All 10??? Answer the durn question!!!!!!!!! Maybe the topics been beaten to death, but this question has NEVER been answered.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:48:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LWilde: There's just one thing: When the fucking liberals get back into power and bend us ALL over the table because you single issue guys sat on the sideline bitching, DON'T COME COMPLAINING! You don't get to bitch about how fucked up our government is in that case...'cause you're part of the problem.
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My sentiments exactly. You dont buy a ticket, cant watch the show. I have friends like that, they bitch bitch bitch yet, they never vote. They didnt take to kindly to me for what I had to say.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:55:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 12:58:49 PM EDT
Not many politicians these days are going to voice their unequivocal support for "gun rights" (whatever that means to each individual). Some are dickheads and some just want to get elected. You have to look at what will most likely happen after the election. Will the person actively attack your “rights” or just cruise along, talking about how the education system needs to be fixed? They all will want to get re-elected but they may have different ideas about whom their supporters were and are. We have an election for governor coming up in Illinois which the republican candidate won’t win (thanks to the previous republican governor) unless the democrap gets caught with a teenager under his desk. So, who do I vote for here? Maybe the Libertarian, pro-gun candidate? Perhaps the republicans will wake the hell up. But will we ever be able to repair the damage that the dummycrats are going to do? I hate to even think about it. Make your vote count, or you may find yourself in a situation where you essentially have no vote.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 1:03:39 PM EDT
In your above mentioned scenario, I would definitely vote republican. The Republic has been dying a slow agonizing death and I would rather see it put out of it's misery than have to listen to decades more of political party sheeple "lesser of 2 evils" rationalizations.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 1:09:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2002 1:10:23 PM EDT by garandman]
Guys, I'm not looking for paragraphs of rationalizations. I simply want one of the following: 1. A [b]number[/b] from 3 to 10, of Amerndments violated that would cause you to lay aside the political objective of regaining the Senate and make you NOT vote for these Republicans in name (and to get the cash of the party) only. or 2. Simply tell me that regaining the Senate in this 104th - 105th whatever COngress is important enuf to endure the violation of the entire BoR. Its that simple.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 5:37:57 PM EDT
G-Man, In answer to your question: None. I don't see the danger. You may...but I do not. Answer yourself these questions: 1. Can you still stand on a street corner and speak out loudly about damn near anything? Can you pamphleteer about anything short of kiddyporn? Can you still assemble outside the White House and bitch about how screwed up our country is? Can you still worship at the church of your choosing on the day and time of your choosing? Can you still write, call, fax, or e-mail your congressscritter, senator, or the pres? 2. Can you add to your arsenal? Can you buy ammo? Can you shoot, hunt and plink? Can you still defend your property and person with a firearm? 3. Has the Army recently quartered troops in your home? 4. Have the lawdogs busted into your home lately without a properly executed warrant? 5. Have you been given the rubber hose recently to compel you to give testimony or admit to a crime...been imprisoned without due process...been forced to testify against yourself...and has any of your property been swiped by the cops or courts without just compensation? 6. If you have ever been charged with any crime, has the government ever dragged their feet and extended your time in the slammer? Have you ever been prevented from confronting your accusers or been prevented from calling witnesses? Have you ever been refused the assistance of proper counsel for your defense? 7. Have you ever been refused the right of a trial by jury in a civil court? 8. Have the authorities ever racked you? How about the strapado...or been drawn and quartered? Were you ever compelled to pay $1,000,000.00 for a minor traffic fine? 9. Have other, not enumerated rights been denied you? 10. Can you name a particular case where the federal government overstepped its powers clarified in the Constitution and took back those rights from the states and the people, not "delegated" to the United States by the Constitution? I don't see the violations of the Bill of Rights. Please explain in more detail.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 6:10:21 PM EDT
I only vote for folks who value ALL of our natural rights. No exceptions.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 6:21:46 PM EDT
want a number,pick one that makes you 'happy', your choice...now stop salivating you religious zealot,and go start a crusade!
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 6:37:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 6:39:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 7:13:21 PM EDT
Sweep, You're so upbeat about the situation. So how long until we freedom loving, free thinking folks need to get together and buy a small country in the tropics just to be free? I'm as frustrated with the political climate in the country as the rest of you. Garandman - get over it, I gotta agree with the crowd here I vote for the lesser of two evils. The more I can slow down the erosion of my rights and those that my children and grandchildren will retain, all the better. As a child I thought politicians (read the forefathers) were great men who established a great country. I believed that the current leaders were also great men who held the same beliefs as the forefathers. As an adult I understand that politics became the same game as aristocrasy, "blue blood" senators and representatives who do what is best for the sheep back home. Reminds me of lords and vassels. Anyone want to go in on that tropical island? Ryan
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 7:52:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By DJbump: I only vote for folks who value ALL of our natural rights. No exceptions.
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So, when did you last vote? [rolleyes]
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The scarcity of suitable candidates does not dissuade me from sticking to my principles.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 8:26:56 PM EDT
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