Posted: 9/14/2002 4:32:39 PM EDT
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I am at school now and was unable to take my dog with me because I live in campus housing. This left the task of walking her to my parents and brother, which wouldn't be a problem if "walking" her didn't involve them making fifteen foot strides and moving at 30 MPH. To make things worse she gets defensive around other dogs. Choke chains and those spiked choke chains have no effect on her, she just doesn't seem to understand what she is being punished for (the irony here is that she is one of the smartest dogs I have ever seen). Shock collars are equally useless, and she will literally pull so hard her tongue turns blue. This was not really a problem until recetly because I could control her, but it seems now that I'm the only in my family who can. My parents have decided to get her a muzzle with the O ring for the leash mounted in the nose/mouth area to see if that helps. Can anyone here with experiece with them recommend one? TIA. Kyle |
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Sounds like a few lessons with a professional would be in line ... and a large insurance policy. I've never seen a dog so head strong that I couldn't break him and train him given enough time. I have found dogs too stupid (inbread) to be taught anything but their name. |
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Kyle, I'll recount a method I've used on dogs who insist that they want to pull you around. First, obtain about 4.5 feet of thick, slippery rope (the type made from slippery nylon) Next, tie a "slip hitch" in it. Then place this slip hitch over the dogs head, but [b]not[/b] around the dogs neck. The "knot" of the slip hitch should be positioned right on top of the dogs right ear (depending on which side you have it heel to.) Put the normal leash on the dog also. Now take the dog outside and walk it. When the dog pulls on the rope, it tightens and pinches the ear. When the dog lets up, it relaxes. Even the dumbest dog in the world will figure this out quickly. It has worked with the hardest headed retrievers I've ever seen. I also used it on a Malamute who was born to pull. Worked like a charm. [b]You must be consistant and level headed.[/b] Also, try incorperating the "HEEL" command when using it. Only say it once, then pull the dog back to your side. Do this consistantly and often. Soon, when you say "HEEL", the dog will know whats coming next and will slide right in beside you. This little gem of a trick was taught to me by a old county gent who has been training dogs for the past 60 years. plain and simple, it works if you do your part. Hope this helps you out. -Ryan Edited to add: I notice you also said that the dog gets defensive around other dogs. This behaviour is typical of dogs that are not dominated. Remember, dogs are pack animals and YOU are supposed to be the alpha in the pack. Therefore, when a strange dog/person/situation arises, YOU are the one who deals with it, NOT the dog (they are not allowed to make their own decisions.) A dominated dog knows its place in the pack and that is important for its happiness and well being. Next time another dog comes near, you be the first one to deal with it. OR, have a buddy who has a dog help you to set up the situation. I know this sounds like foolishness but it does work. Setting the dog up is one of the ways the dog can teach itself. You ever notice that a dog can learn things by doing it one time if it figures it out on its own? Vice you trying to teach it something thru hundreds of repititions? Use that to your advantage. Set the dog up so that it teaches itself. (this same logic works excellent with electroic collars as they never associate the correction with you) Hope all this drivel makes sense to you. |
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I have seen many dogs who would choke themselves out, given the opportunity. Maybe you need to look into >>how<< to use a prong collar or a choke chain and have these people >>learn<< how to correct a dog, maybe. I am wondering how a typical correction is given. Let's say you walk upto another dog. What does the dog do, what does the person handling the dog do? What kind of dog is it? Only use a muzzle after we try to address why the dog is doing what it is doing and how can we fix the behavior without resorting to this. You can email me as well here @ar15.com. |
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With the choke collar you really have to give it a yank and inflict pain at the command heel. My dog learned on the first yank, others take a few. I use a 15 foot lead in the middle of an empty park and I walk back and forth in a straight line. When I get to the end of the short 50 foot line I'm walking the dog is suppose to auto-sit. I tell the dog sit and push it's rear knees in if needed. I then do an about face, speak the dog's name and say come and then step off smartly with the foot nearest the dog. If the dog attempts to run ahead she'll get a good yank - enough to stop the dog's forward progress and yank it back to me. After enough reps the dog auto-heels on your right side whenever you stop walking. I am the center of the dog's universe - the alpha - and the dog pays attention to me and my commands. After a couple visits to the park of 15 to 20 minutes of this back and forth you can then start doing squares. Next add distractions where there are children playing and other dogs present. Eventually the lead gets shortened to about 12 inches and then finally removed. A trained dog is a wonder to have. I spend a month to train mine and she's been a wonder the last ten years. Neighbors are amazed that she stays in the yard while I wander off doing my yard work - if the door gets open on them their dog runs wild. I've trained several dogs for friends and neighbors - including a shipmate's malmute who between his thick coat, thick head, and 80 pounds ALMOST broke me. |
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That is just it, a choke collar or a prong collar is not about "inflicting pain". It is about surprising the dog and creating an atmosphere where the dogs gets a shock. You need to associate a command with the behavior as well. If your pooch is going at another dog or anything, a quick pop, and a command like "leave it!" The dog needs an association to get away from always having to use compulsion. The POP on the collar should be only enough to stop the action. It is NOT about punishing. In addition, too much force can result in serious injury to the dog. I am sure you did a fine job Paul, I do not doubt you. Maybe you are an advanced trainer where others are novices. [;)] I do not believe in utilizing compulsion as freeely as some. |
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Quoted: I notice you also said that the dog gets defensive around other dogs. This behaviour is typical of dogs that are not dominated. Remember, dogs are pack animals and YOU are supposed to be the alpha in the pack. Therefore, when a strange dog/person/situation arises, YOU are the one who deals with it, NOT the dog (they are not allowed to make their own decisions.) A dominated dog knows its place in the pack and that is important for its happiness and well being. You may have noticed in my first post I mentioned that I don't have a problem controling her, but this is exactly the problem that my family has with her. I can control her not because I am stronger than the rest of my family (I think my dad still has the edge on me there), but because when I am around she knows who is in control. I don't actually need a leash when I walk her because she stays right with me. Ehan we see another dog she will raise her hackles and growl until I say her name in a deep voice and then she will just lay down at my feet until the other dog is gone. My families efforts to get her under control have been castrated by my mother who doesn't let my brother and father establish dominance because she does not want "to be cruel." I have ignored her, but my father and brother don't want to deal with her so they comply. The result is that both our dogs think that they don't have to obey comands that don't come from me. They are lucky that neither dog has a dominant personality, or they would try to run the house when I am gone. Jesse (the problem one) is actually a coward, and is unlikely to attack anything with a shot at fighting back, but is incredibly strong. Beauty (a name we inherited from her previous owner, so don't blame me) is the typical gentle lab and is to small and old to be a problem to control.It is simply because they have set no clear distinction between the leader and followers that there is a problem, and the problem is not going to go away because they won't rectify it. Training is not going to help because it either will not be implemented or Jesse will not feel the need to obey outside of my presence. That is why I was asking about the muzzle. Kyle |
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We use the "Gentle Leader" every now and again. It holds the dog around the nose and if the dog starts to pull it will force it to turn it's head toward you. Plus the wrap around the nose is a display of dominance over the dog. Alpha type dogs will paw at it and fight it but will give up shortly. Really seems to work well. About 20 bucks most places. Our girls don't give a rats ace about the pinch collars as well, it just makes it bearable to walk them, as with flat collars they will just yank you down the street no matter how strong you are. Our girl Schatzi's sister just pulled 1,887 pounds at the weight pull that weekend. I may be fat but I dont weigh that much. |