[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Catholic Divorce (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 2/6/2013 3:08:16 PM EDT
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Wive is leaving me for another guy. Marriage was pretty much dead for a while, we just hadn't arrived at the scene of the crash.
How does the church view adultery when a couple divorces? TC |
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First of all sorry about your situation. Second, unless you can prove something and get an annulment, forget about the Catholic church. My wife took off with another guy 18 years ago and I was left with 2 kids to raise. She got nothing in court. My life was hell for a lot of years but I raised my kids myself and they are good kids. Her second husband, (not the same guy) just dropped dead. He was an alcoholic and beat her from time to time. She was in the process of divorcing him. What goes around comes around. All I can tell ya is hang in there and get a good divorce lawyer ASAP!!!! I can't stress that enough. Just my 2 cents.
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Quoted: Wive is leaving me for another guy. Marriage was pretty much dead for a while, we just hadn't arrived at the scene of the crash. How does the church view adultery when a couple divorces? TC I didn't think the catholic church allowed divorce. Don't you get excommunicated or something? |
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How exactly does the Catholic Church benefit monetarily when a couple divorces? I'm interested in the specifics and examples.
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They look at it kinda like this http://www.halloweenmart.com/media/core/nt/t_RU7350_GLD$_GLASSES.png |
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1. Get a good divorce lawyer.
2. Get a good divorce lawyer. 3. Did I mention get a good divorce lawyer? It helped me IMMENSELY. She got nothing, I kept my 2 kids, house, 401K. 4. Get a good divorce lawyer! Edit: Yes I am a guy and I kept my 2 kids and everything else! |
| Consider becoming Episcopal. It's virtually the same as roman catholic but their priests can marry and they understand that people sometimes get divorced. To stay catholic, you have to look into an annulment which can mean both you and your ex having to see shrinks and find a good reason why the marriage is null and void. Just my 2 cents, from a recently divorced, former catholic guy. |
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Wive is leaving me for another guy. Marriage was pretty much dead for a while, we just hadn't arrived at the scene of the crash. How does the church view adultery when a couple divorces? TC I'd imagine they're baffled by it, seeing as how they're unmarried virgins. Sorry for what you're dealing with in your life right now. If you pay them enough money, they'll bend "the word of god" whichever way you want. My father got an annulment after 27 years with no infidelities simply because he paid them off. Standard practice, but it's going to cost you dearly. |
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Who cares what the church thinks? Oh, is this for your christianmingles.com profile? Seriously? Anyway I am not sure of the Catholic Church, I admire your thought about your faith in this hard time. I can only speak as a christian, and in the end Catholicism is Christianity, God knows no denomination or single church forgiveness is through Christ. In the end I say look at Matthew 19:9 "And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” To me this says your are pretty much okay, your wife is leaving you for another guy, so if you remarry later on I wouldn't consider it adultery. Now if it's outside of marriage then little bit different, I don't advise it but God forgives bro. I think there is a religion forum, might get some more appropriate responses from it. |
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Talk to your parish pastor, assuming yours still has one, and not some part timer priest imported from Africa or South America who can't speak English and just has to run around saying mass at four or five parishes in rotation.
Have whatever meetings they tell you to, counseling, some workshops or classes etc. This is assuming your wife has made up her mind and won't go etc. And eventually you'll get an annulment because "the marriage wasn't spiritually consummated". Which is a fancy way of saying "yes you married her and stuck it in but her heart wasn't in it if she's willing to leave you like that." Then you can still get married in a Catholic church, if that's important to you. If you're just a "Creaster" (Christmas and Easter attendee only) and don't care just get divorced and don't involve the church like everyone else does. If you decide a few years later you want to make it right with the church after the fact, there's a bit more ass-kissery involved, but it's still largely the same process. |
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Wive is leaving me for another guy. Marriage was pretty much dead for a while, we just hadn't arrived at the scene of the crash. How does the church view adultery when a couple divorces? TC I'd imagine they're baffled by it, seeing as how they're unmarried virgins. Sorry for what you're dealing with in your life right now. If you pay them enough money, they'll bend "the word of god" whichever way you want. My father got an annulment after 27 years with no infidelities simply because he paid them off. Standard practice, but it's going to cost you dearly. No way I'm paying for that. I just thought it was allowed in case of infidelity on the part of the other partner. Guess not. TC |
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Have whatever meetings they tell you to, counseling, some workshops or classes etc. This is assuming your wife has made up her mind and won't go etc. And eventually you'll get an annulment because "the marriage wasn't spiritually consummated". Which is a fancy way of saying "yes you married her and stuck it in but her heart wasn't in it if she's willing to leave you like that." If you decide a few years later you want to make it right with the church after the fact, there's a bit more ass-kissery involved, but it's still largely the same process. I am assuming that the OP was married in the Catholic Church? If so when your marriage ends, as far as the state is concerned, you are still considered married in the eyes of the church. Your problems starts later on when you meet someone else and you want to marry them in the church (because you are still married to the other one). I would go to your Priest and speak with him and the process of getting your marriage annulled. Good luck to you. |
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By "pay them off" it's the seminars and classes and counseling stuff.
How much it costs probably varies by your diocese, it might even be free. Maybe there's still some parish where you get whatever you want if you buy the school new basketball hoops or whatever. Although most places "paying them off" will just mean whatever busywork they've set out for the process to let them feel better about it. My father and stepmother went through this, in the reverse, after my mother left my father when I was 2 back in '75, and he re-married in an Episcopal church when I was 4. Then they were able to go to some counseling with a priest, and some classes or a retreat or whatever and get it all made right. I don't know how involved it was, but I can tell you it did not take a ton of money. From what little impression I have of it as a 5 year old, it was probably pretty touchy-feely even back in the 70's. I can't imagine it's gotten that much tougher. |
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The Anglicans are somewhat more relaxed about it. (in practice, if not in theory) Seems to be true about a lot of things. They have become a really bad joke and I'm not surprised that some of the Anglican congregations around here are returning to the Catholic Church. |
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The church has to find something during the wedding ceremony that did not allow you to actually complete the ceremony according to the rules. Or they have to find something during the time you were married that interfered with your relationship with the church and/or god.
What those items are exactly? You will have to speak with a priest. |
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It does not view it at all directly. Catholic divorce can occur in 1 or 2 ways that are both rarer than hens teeth. It is 99.999% true that there is no such thing as Catholic divorce. The Catholic church most often only deals with civil divorce in that it generally requires civil divorce before investigating the validity of a prior marriage. Directly, the Church looks at what happened at the time of marriage. What happens after marriage is irrelevant to the validity of the marriage. There are a few things that can cause a marriage to be invalid. IIRC they are failure related to if the 2 people can be married, consent, ability, and possibly consummation (not sure). Can the 2 people be married - age of concent, are they brother/sister, are they already married to someone else... Consent - did they agree to get married without cohesion, did they know/understand what they were agreeing to (were they too immature to understand - this is a hole big enough to drive a truck through) Ability - could they live out a marriage (a drunk, drug addict, serial adulterer are all pretty unable to live out a marriage) The only way her affair would make a difference is if you can show a pattern of events that help prove that she was a never able to be faithful at the time she made her vows (ability), and/or never agreed with those vows to be faithful (consent). Generally the better argument is that we were immature dumb kids. ---- sorry, did think of one other issue with Catholics and civil divorce. Divorce is pretty much a non-issue to the Church - you will get little grief leaving because she is already gone. The issue is potential future remarriage. ---- annulment will vary by diocese, so I can only tell you my wife's experience. It is a canon law court case. For the most part the petitioner will represent themselves (but I think if you feel the need to you can hire a cannon lawyer to help represent you - but understand lawyers can be expensive. I think this is very rare). Our diocese required my wife to fill out some paperwork (about 20 pages or so), that was essentially a deposition. In addition she needed a deposition from a witness or two. Your spouse will be given the opportunity to also do the same - but unless they are contesting the annulment, they probably will not bother. My wife had to show up at the tribunal and (as far as I know - this is behind closed doors) was questioned by both the tribunal and the defender of the covenant (the Church appointed cannon lawyer who defends the marriage). My wife also had her two witnesses available at the hearing - I do not recall if they were questioned. I think the hearing took about 30 minutes. Two days latter we got a letter from the Tribunal telling us the initial findings of invalid - and that it was going to be appealed (this is standard procedure - all annulments are reviewed). Roughly 6 months latter we were informed the annulment was official. I think our diocese asked for a donation of $160 to help cover administrative costs -but it could be waved in cases of need. ---- My take on the matter is that it is part of a healing process. You have to be able to forgive yourself for the marriage not working out. The Church makes you look hard at what happened, and that is not a pleasant thing to do. I know my wife cried a lot filling out the paperwork, and cried more at the hearing. That said, in the end - it helps you move on without guilt. |
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You can get an annulment in church, takes a long time and is a long process, but worth it. It basically acknowledges that it was not a complete Catholic union and the church dissolves it. You will still need to go through a civil divorce in your local court. I don't know about your location but in VA if there is infidelity on her part and you catch her its an expedited divorce, no wait.
ETA: I am Catholic and divorced, remarried(civil ceremony), am awaiting the finalization of my annulment and plan to get my marriage con validated in the church. |
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My cousin did that .
She was southern baptist and was engaged to a roman catholic. In order for this to occur, she had to become roman catholic.....attended a bunch of classes for weeks. They got married....after about a year, she found out he was cheating on her. Their church would not approve a divorce, instead they had the marriage annulled. That way prettyboy and his family would not lose their "standing" in the church. Cuz's attorney made sure all this was considered in the settlement ...her smiling; them grabbing their buttcheeks. She remained catholic and was allowed to remarry in another catholic church due to it being an annullment instead of a divorce. Churches are funny things sometimes...there are many that will not allow a marriage service to take place in their facility if the bride or groom is a divorcee. |
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The Anglicans are somewhat more relaxed about it. (in practice, if not in theory) Seems to be true about a lot of things. They have become a really bad joke and I'm not surprised that some of the Anglican congregations around here are returning to the Catholic Church. The ones that are doing that are doing it because they don't think they should be forced to accept "gay" bishops. |
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Who cares what the church thinks? Oh, is this for your christianmingles.com profile? Because some Men Live their Beliefs Now to the OP First off I am Not Catholic but I am a Christian and here is my take on it. If she runs off on you she is the one who has committed the Sin. I'm not sure our Merciful God would force you to be alone because of another's sin. BUT You should talk to your Church. One thing that comes to mind is my sister had her husband run off on her. She was talking to a priest (though she is not catholic he was a friend). He asked her what her sons thought about it (her sons are adults), she told him hoe they wew not happy about it. the Priest told her "They should have cut His (her husbands) balls Off" That shows me that some priest do understand the real world. |
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It does not view it at all directly. Catholic divorce can occur in 1 or 2 ways that are both rarer than hens teeth. It is 99.999% true that there is no such thing as Catholic divorce. The Catholic church most often only deals with civil divorce in that it generally requires civil divorce before investigating the validity of a prior marriage. Directly, the Church looks at what happened at the time of marriage. What happens after marriage is irrelevant to the validity of the marriage. There are a few things that can cause a marriage to be invalid. IIRC they are failure related to if the 2 people can be married, consent, ability, and possibly consummation (not sure). Can the 2 people be married - age of concent, are they brother/sister, are they already married to someone else... Consent - did they agree to get married without cohesion, did they know/understand what they were agreeing to (were they too immature to understand - this is a hole big enough to drive a truck through) Ability - could they live out a marriage (a drunk, drug addict, serial adulterer are all pretty unable to live out a marriage) The only way her affair would make a difference is if you can show a pattern of events that help prove that she was a never able to be faithful at the time she made her vows (ability), and/or never agreed with those vows to be faithful (consent). Generally the better argument is that we were immature dumb kids. ---- sorry, did think of one other issue with Catholics and civil divorce. Divorce is pretty much a non-issue to the Church - you will get little grief leaving because she is already gone. The issue is potential future remarriage. ---- annulment will vary by diocese, so I can only tell you my wife's experience. It is a canon law court case. For the most part the petitioner will represent themselves (but I think if you feel the need to you can hire a cannon lawyer to help represent you - but understand lawyers can be expensive. I think this is very rare). Our diocese required my wife to fill out some paperwork (about 20 pages or so), that was essentially a deposition. In addition she needed a deposition from a witness or two. Your spouse will be given the opportunity to also do the same - but unless they are contesting the annulment, they probably will not bother. My wife had to show up at the tribunal and (as far as I know - this is behind closed doors) was questioned by both the tribunal and the defender of the covenant (the Church appointed cannon lawyer who defends the marriage). My wife also had her two witnesses available at the hearing - I do not recall if they were questioned. I think the hearing took about 30 minutes. Two days latter we got a letter from the Tribunal telling us the initial findings of invalid - and that it was going to be appealed (this is standard procedure - all annulments are reviewed). Roughly 6 months latter we were informed the annulment was official. I think our diocese asked for a donation of $160 to help cover administrative costs -but it could be waved in cases of need. ---- My take on the matter is that it is part of a healing process. You have to be able to forgive yourself for the marriage not working out. The Church makes you look hard at what happened, and that is not a pleasant thing to do. I know my wife cried a lot filling out the paperwork, and cried more at the hearing. That said, in the end - it helps you move on without guilt. This is much better advice than my silly post. Really, good luck OP. |
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Im catholic ...... I have questions 1 are you an active member 2 do you have kids in catholic school Yes and yes. TC ETA: Thanks again for all the insight. I know I could walk away from the church but they are really good people who were very welcoming and I feel I owe it to them to continue to attend. I think I will talk to our Priest. |
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How exactly does the Catholic Church benefit monetarily when a couple divorces? I'm interested in the specifics and examples. Quoted:
They look at it kinda like this http://www.halloweenmart.com/media/core/nt/t_RU7350_GLD$_GLASSES.png Because in the eyes of the catholic church, you are still married until you have annulled your marriage. My uncle spent just a touch over $10,000 and 3 years going through the annullment process. 
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Quoted: Wive is leaving me for another guy. Marriage was pretty much dead for a while, we just hadn't arrived at the scene of the crash. How does the church view adultery when a couple divorces? TC Sorry to hear that mon. Church never looks favorably on adultery or divorce. But, in the case where one spouse is abandoned by the other: Catholic Catechism - 2386 "It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage." |
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The Anglicans are somewhat more relaxed about it. (in practice, if not in theory) Seems to be true about a lot of things. They have become a really bad joke and I'm not surprised that some of the Anglican congregations around here are returning to the Catholic Church. The ones that are doing that are doing it because they don't think they should be forced to accept "gay" bishops. That's enough reason by itself, IMO, although from what I've read, there's quite a bit more to it than that. |
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Wive is leaving me for another guy. Marriage was pretty much dead for a while, we just hadn't arrived at the scene of the crash. How does the church view adultery when a couple divorces? TC I didn't think the catholic church allowed divorce. Don't you get excommunicated or something? My grandfather was excommunicated in 1947 when the Catholic Church found out my grandmother had their oldest son baptized at her family's Protestant church while Grampa was fighting in the Pacific in WWII. My father was born in 1947, they found out because my grandfather wanted him baptized in the Catholic Church. He was bitter about it till the day he died. My mother received an annullment from the church. It took about five years and a lot of $$ to get it though. They don't make it easy regardless of the reason for the divorce. She wanted to remarry, but not outside the church. I've never heard of an annullment excommunication in my lifetime, don't think they're too common. ETA: my grandfather's sister was excommunicated for getting divorced in the early 1940's too. |