Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/23/2002 6:06:04 AM EDT
This is a very good site. makes a lot more sense than what a lot of other people have said about it. They even have a flat tax calculator. [url]http://www.scrapthecode.org/[/url] Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:33:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:34:09 AM EDT
Kickass. Everyone should support this effort.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:57:59 AM EDT
The US Tax Code (all 10,000+ pages of it) is the most powerful document in our country. Sorry, but our legislators don't seem to give a damn about The Constitution, because that is a document designed to [i]limit[/i] the government's power. The Tax Code, however, is capable of granting significant power to anyone willing to sell their soul. Something really big is going to happen before you can scrap that turd. I can see it now: Tom Daschle standing at the podium at the Democratic primary with a copy of the US Tax Code held high in his right hand, shouting "From my cold, dead hands." [;)]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 7:07:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 7:08:27 AM EDT by DriftPunch]
Agreed! Only the citizens want it changed, and we know how much congress listens to citizens. The tax code is cherished by special interests (regardless of political affiliation), for it is there that they can gain and hide tremendous advantages. It's interesting that the only directives toward efficiency the IRS does is toward the method of submitting payment.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 11:21:03 AM EDT
Thanks for the link! [url]http://www.scrapthecode.org/[/url]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 12:21:21 PM EDT
Although better then the current "system" now in place, a flat tax is still repugnant to me. I'll be damned if ANYONE is ENTITLED to any portion of MY earnings without my consent. I could support a national sales tax, that way I am the one who decides where, when, why, and how much of my money leaves my bank account. Property tax should be settled at the time of sale and not dragged on forever. After all, if I own the property, why am I forced to pay "rent" every year to the gooberment for it. The only differences between the IRS and the mob is the IRS has more judges on the payroll, and their goons have badges.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 3:17:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher: Although better then the current "system" now in place, a flat tax is still repugnant to me. I'll be damned if ANYONE is ENTITLED to any portion of MY earnings without my consent.
View Quote
I'll be damned if anyone who doesn't pay tax is entitled to drive on the roads my tax dollars paid for
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:19:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By DPeacher: Although better then the current "system" now in place, a flat tax is still repugnant to me. I'll be damned if ANYONE is ENTITLED to any portion of MY earnings without my consent.
View Quote
I'll be damned if anyone who doesn't pay tax is entitled to drive on the roads my tax dollars paid for
View Quote
I agree completely! I already have a current tax stamp on the front and rear bumpers of each vehicle my family operates on public streets. What if I did not own a vehicle or operate one on a public street. Would I still be responsible for paying tax for something I do not use? The IRS is robbing us all at gun point. If you think that is a false statement, then don't pay income tax, and refuse to go to court for keeping your hard earned income. A national sales tax is the only fair way to pay for the necessities of government. No one would be able to escape it, not even those who obtain their income illegally, or the "rich" who hire CPA's and lawyers to find and exploit the loop holes. Everyone would pay EXACTLY their "fair share", and would do so on their own terms. After all, if you don't want to pay the tax, you would not HAVE to purchase the goods or services. Necessities such as food at a grocery store, and visits to the doctor, would not be taxable, but eating at a restaurant or having elective surgery performed would be taxed. It would also help if the government would be bound to a budget, just like the vast majority of people. Instead of passing laws to steal from the citizens to fund their special interests, Congress would be forced to make due with the money available. For example, the government would have to determine its operating needs for 2004 based on the amount of tax collected in 2003. I would like a new truck, but I doubt my employer would take my demands for a $500 a month raise to purchase one very seriously. Yet the government makes these types of demands on us every day. There used to be another means of gathering income for emergency use. War Bonds. It was a true measure of the American peoples support for the government action. We have not had any War Bonds since WW2. We should have Bonds for the War on Poverty, the War on Drugs, and the War on Terrorism. It should be my choice to determine where, and how much, support I give. With the current tax code we are all slaves to [s]Massah[/s]the IRS and the Federal Government.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:29:02 PM EDT
I don't think the national sales tax would be fair. Joe six pack making minimum wage will have to pay the same tax on his can of corn as Bill Gates. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a tax the rich kind of person. What I'm saying is that extremely low income people would need an exempt status of lesser rate. Their income level would be hard to prove at the cash register without some kind of Big Brother constant accounting system. I see a huge opportunity for black market goods with this system. IMHO I am not an economist, accountant or even a very smart person, but the national sales tax is doomed as long as people can grow food items and barter home made items.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:32:35 PM EDT
screw that, lets have a head tax same amount per person, not same percent
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:49:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 4:50:52 PM EDT by Pangea]
Originally Posted By agtm: screw that, lets have a head tax same amount per person, not same percent
View Quote
Are you out of your damned mind? Man, head is hard enough to get without the added burden of taxing it![:D] Edited to put a comma between man and head. That didn't look right.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:59:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea: I don't think the national sales tax would be fair. Joe six pack making minimum wage will have to pay the same tax on his can of corn as Bill Gates. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a tax the rich kind of person. What I'm saying is that extremely low income people would need an exempt status of lesser rate. Their income level would be hard to prove at the cash register without some kind of Big Brother constant accounting system. I see a huge opportunity for black market goods with this system. IMHO I am not an economist, accountant or even a very smart person, but the national sales tax is doomed as long as people can grow food items and barter home made items.
View Quote
According to [url]www.fairtax.org[/url] poorer people would come out ahead on used items as there is no sales tax on them. An item can only be taxed once after it leaves the manufacturer. Also they say that the cost of goods would be significantly less. Thereby reducing the actual cost of the product before a tax is applied. Makes sense, but the actual hiccup would be trusting the manufacturers to lowers their prices. I thinks that most would in order to be competitive, but would be a rough year or two until such a system could get underway.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:09:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 5:21:16 PM EDT by DPeacher]
Originally Posted By Pangea: I don't think the national sales tax would be fair. Joe six pack making minimum wage will have to pay the same tax on his can of corn as Bill Gates. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a tax the rich kind of person. What I'm saying is that extremely low income people would need an exempt status of lesser rate. Their income level would be hard to prove at the cash register without some kind of Big Brother constant accounting system. I see a huge opportunity for black market goods with this system. IMHO I am not an economist, accountant or even a very smart person, but the national sales tax is doomed as long as people can grow food items and barter home made items.
View Quote
Read my post. Joe six pack would not pay tax on food purchased in a grocery store, neither would Bill Gates. The huge black market already exists, just drive through a residential neighborhood on a Saturday morning and take a look at all of the garage sales. The tax system I propose is already in place and is working. Just look at any receipt. This is America! The land of opportunity! If someone has a better way of making a buck, then great. If Joe six pack wants to earn a better living, he will. And when he does he won't have to give Uncle Sugar a nice fat pay raise unless he wants to. With the current system, a co-worker of mine is taking home less pay this year even though he got a raise. Welcome to the next tax bracket bud, Uncle Sugar sure likes it! To be honest, I'm tired of paying Joe six packs way. Joe six pack was afforded the same opportunities to fail, achieve, or succeed, that I was. We sat in the same classrooms through school. Joe made C's while I made A's and B's. Joe decided to fix flat tires for Mr Harmon and hang around the little hometown, marry Suzy Rottencrotch, and pump out a dozen kids. I joined the service, furthered my education, expanded my horizons, and moved beyond my comfort zone. Got married to little Mary Rottencrotch, but decided that 2 kids were enough. 20 years later, Joe brings in 24k per year and can barely make ends meet. I bring in 57k per year and I'm comfortable. Why should I be forced to pay more then Joe? We both worked hard, but I worked a little bit smarter and have more income to show for it. Meanwhile that geeky nerd, Bill Gates, that we went to school with, came up with a good idea and kicked the world in the nuts. Ever wonder why there are so many Joe six packs? It's because most people have convinced themselves they can't do any better. And Uncle Sugar likes it that way. Folks are already growing their own food, raising their own poultry, beef, pork. And bartering for goods and services. TAX FREE!! I helped my neighbor with a computer problem and run a network in his house. His wife fixed dinner for my family. A good dinner I might add. The kind you would pay money for. Bartering is alive and well. I'm sure everyone on this board does a bit of it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:35:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By agtm: screw that, lets have a head tax same amount per person, not same percent
View Quote
What would be a fair amount? 500, 1k, 3k, 5k per head per year(PHPY)? Who determines the amount, and how often can they change it? What if you have a family of 8 and the PHPY rate is 5k, but your family income is only 36k. Would you have to eliminate a number of heads, or would others be forced to pay for you? Would we get to pro-rate the heads of the dearly departed? What about conjoined twins that are joined at the head? There would be 1 head but 2 mouths!
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 5:56:48 AM EDT
DPeacher, good points. I agree that food items and health should not be taxed. That being said, the burden of tax would go to those people that purchase cars, washing machines,computers, etc. J S aint buying that. There are alot more J S's than us. That leaves us to carry the burden just as we do now. I hope for my own selfish reasons that there will always be J S's and plenty of them because if there wasn't we; you and me, would be at the bottom because our 50-60K income. Paying tax for something that we don't use? My food processors are out of school but I am paying for the school system just like the couple that has no children. How much money goes to school football, baseball, soccer, etc? WTF? This is the raw product that is refined into professional athletes. Why isn't the NFL and the rest of the entertainment industry paying for these activities? I've never driven on an interstate in BF Kansas. Why is my monies going to maintain their road system? When it's my turn to run this world there will be some changes made!!!!
Link Posted: 8/25/2002 8:06:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2002 8:32:35 PM EDT by DPeacher]
Pangea, JS also buys durable goods such as washers, dryers, refrigerators(gotta keep the beer cold!), and automobiles. All in all JS is a darn good fellow, he is the one who will stop and give your wife a hand when she has a flat tire. JS is not part of the problem. JS is what makes things happen The person I think we are refering to is Frankie Food Stamp. Frankie was in school with JS and I until sometime around 8th or 9th grade and then he dropped out. He now hangs out on the street corner with a sign that says "will work for food", but is to damn stupid to realise that working for food is exactly what the rest of the world does, and to damn lazy to feed himself. As far as public school goes, I look at it this way. I am now paying for the education that I received for "free". And by paying into a public education system I am laying a foundation that can take care of me as I age and move into retirement. Sports teach teamwork and other social skills such as learning to handle setbacks and victories with graciousness. That road in BF Kansas is still there if you choose to use it, and the folks out in BF are still contributing to the NST by purchasing the products and services that your company in BF Tennessee offers, and having them delivered via that road. Yup, that road out in BF Kansas helps to keep you employed! The NST is the best way to pay for essential government services. It puts the people in control and reduces government to the description in the Constitution. No more, no less. All income is spent. If not now, then it will be at some time in the future. The NST provides a means for the individual to determine where, when, and how to make his contribution to the system. Income tax, even at 1%, is a gun to your head and a long trip to Club Fed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2002 8:13:58 PM EDT
I thought you guys might like to check this site out. I have the tape it is quite informative. This is not some whacked out guy either, it is very intelligent. www.theft-by-deception.com Read before you disregard./ Kentlik
Link Posted: 8/25/2002 8:35:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kentlik: I thought you guys might like to check this site out. I have the tape it is quite informative. This is not some whacked out guy either, it is very intelligent. [url]www.theft-by-deception.com[/url] Read before you disregard./ Kentlik
View Quote
Hot Links! Get chor Hot Links!
Top Top