Posted: 12/17/2012 9:54:54 AM EDT
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When we purchase firearms from a FFL and the dealer goes to make the phone call, there is nothing recorded about the firearm we are purchasing
on the 4473 correct ?, I've always believed the specifics of said gun were entered into the FFL's bound book. I'm having a discussion with a friends father who seems to think the 4473 is how guns are registered. Thanks for the replies |
| When they call no...all they know is if it is a long gun, hand gun, or reciever. However when the ATF comes to do an Audit the serial number/firearm is often recorded by the ATF...who does whatever they do with that info. So end the end they have who purchased a gun at any given time at an FFL. |
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The form goes into store records for 20 years. NICS is not supposed to keep any records but who knows honestly. Wouldn't surprise me if they pulled off some shady shit like: * record entered into some DB * record cached in DB for 24 hours * record purged from DB after 24 hours * hourly DB backups to "offsite location" * DB backups restored and data inserted into Master DB at "offsite location" A LOT of things like things are done like this... |
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The form goes into store records for 20 years. NICS is not supposed to keep any records but who knows honestly. I'm sure the .gov has every last bit of it stored in archives. Anything Archieved is covered under the FOIA I beleive...if someone wanted hire a lawyer I'm sure we could find out. |
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The form goes into store records for 20 years. NICS is not supposed to keep any records but who knows honestly. I'm sure the .gov has every last bit of it stored in archives. Anything Archieved is covered under the FOIA I beleive...if someone wanted hire a lawyer I'm sure we could find out. There's tactics around it which I described above. and plenty of reasonable excuses such as :"We were just following industry best practices!" and "No malicious intent!" |
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I'm an FFL01 and it is recorded on both
When a Manufacturer makes a receiver/gun/etc, it has to have a Serial # and that # recorded along with whom it is shipped to, usually a Distributor. When the Distributor receives it, he records that in his records and then the Dealer that it goes out to, The Dealer enters the information (Manu./importer, model, caliber, whom he acquired it from, date) into his bound book. The Buyer must fill out a 4473 with all of his info and once it is approved, the Dealer fills in all of the info from his book on the 4473 and he keeps the 4473. I've had people tell me that they were glad they live in Texas where we don't have "gun registration" like some other states and It's true that the BATF doesn't "technically" have a record of that information. They use "Us" (the FFL01's) to keep their records for them. So while alot of people "think" we don't have gun registration down here, they have been mislead. If a firearm is found at a crime scene, they can start at the Manufacturer and trail it all the way to the Buyer and we have to give them access to the records and cooperate. On top of that, If I should decide to close shop and stop being an FFL01, I have to send the BATF my Bound Records so they then do have it on record. ETA: To answer the original question - No, we don't include the gun information when we call (actually we don't call anymore, we fill out a search form online) into NICS. |
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My understanding was that the store held on to the 4473s forever, until the store closes. At which time they are sent to the ATF for storage indefinitely.
the 4473 has your full name, birth place, SSN, type of weapon and serial number of the weapon. Your guns are registered, even if only barely. The only good defense you have, is that you did a FTF with "John Smith" a couple years ago, and no longer possess Mr. EBR. |
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I'm an FFL01 and it is recorded on both When a Manufacturer makes a receiver/gun/etc, it has to have a Serial # and that # recorded along with whom it is shipped to, usually a Distributor. When the Distributor receives it, he records that in his records and then the Dealer that it goes out to, The Dealer enters the information (Manu./importer, model, caliber, whom he acquired it from, date) into his bound book. The Buyer must fill out a 4473 with all of his info and once it is approved, the Dealer fills in all of the info from his book on the 4473 and he keeps the 4473. I've had people tell me that they were glad they live in Texas where we don't have "gun registration" like some other states and It's true that the BATF doesn't "technically" have a record of that information. They use "Us" (the FFL01's) to keep their records for them. So while alot of people "think" we don't have gun registration down here, they have been mislead. If a firearm is found at a crime scene, they can start at the Manufacturer and trail it all the way to the Buyer and we have to give them access to the records and cooperate. On top of that, If I should decide to close shop and stop being an FFL01, I have to send the BATF my Bound Records so they then do have it on record. ETA: To answer the original question - No, we don't include the gun information when we call (actually we don't call anymore, we fill out a search form online) into NICS. Wait - so you're saying that the lab geek in the backseat of the cop car can't just run a query against the National Registry and in 5 seconds know that it was sold to a Mrs. Brenda Dingbat on 11/6/1995? 
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Your guns are registered, even if only barely. Yes/no. Part of why people want a real "registry" is so that you can search by anything: owner name, owner address, serial number, type (AR-47, AK-15, Mac-9, glock 7, Bushwhacker, etc). Right now, there isn't a way to do this. You need a serial number and have to follow the breadcrumps for each serial number you have. |
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Your guns are registered, even if only barely. Yes/no. Part of why people want a real "registry" is so that you can search by anything: owner name, owner address, serial number, type (AR-47, AK-15, Mac-9, glock 7, Bushwhacker, etc). Right now, there isn't a way to do this. You need a serial number and have to follow the breadcrumps for each serial number you have. Its definitely a very rudimentary system, without a doubt. I understand when a gun is found and suspected of a crime, they contact the manufacturer and find out what distributor that gun was sent to, then they contact the distributor to find out what store, then the store to look at the 4473 and see who bought it from them, etc etc etc. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center
Cold link. http://www.atf.gov/publications/factsheets/factsheet-national-tracing-center.html Out-of-Business Records:
Federal firearms licensees (FFLs) that discontinue business are required by law to send all firearms transaction records to the NTC. Out-of-business records are integral in the firearms tracing process and other law enforcement investigations. The NTC receives an average of 1.3 million out-of-business records per month. Since 1968, ATF has received several hundred million such records. ATF’s Out-of-Business Records repository is the only one of its kind in the world. |