Posted: 10/13/2012 5:40:15 PM EDT
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So what is the Advantage of buying Shell or Chevron over my local 7-11 Citgo or maybe Tesoro?
Any advantage to using one brand gas over another? I only put super in all my vehicles... |
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The color of the advertising. These refineries and oil companies trade all sort of shit. It is probable that when you pull into the CITCO station you are filling your car with Shell, the ony difference being a couple of additives. That was my impression as well. I'd always heard the cost of transporting gasoline is a significant part of the cost to the station, so all of 'em just use whoever's closest. I just try to stay away from stations that don't look like they turn fuel over frequently, but that's my only qualifier. I'll get gas wherever. Never yet had a tank my car wouldn't drink either. |
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Over the next few years, the baseline additive pack level almost everywhere in the US and Canada (and probably with PEMEX, as they slowly get on the ball) will meet sufficiently high minimum standards that most problems related to deposits that can be cured with a regular diet of basic additives will be cured. Until then, you get a lot of the benefits by just running a bottle of Chevron Techron or something similar through the fuel system (and I mean something similar, not some $.97 STP or Lucas garbage that was on sale) every 3,000 miles. Yes, you can do better, no, you don't need to, probably.
If you have a gasoline DI engine, your situation may be a little more problematic and you should plan on more maintenance, every 30,000 miles like clockwork. The longer answer is that the octane number you see on the pump is the average of the MON (Motor Octane Number) and the RON (Research Octane Number). Sparing you a longer discussion, those are essentially "worst case octane" and "best case octane" looking at octane as a function of displayed performance under load. The spread between MON and RON can be surprisingly large, although it has gotten tighter over the last 15 years as a lot of more volatile compounds were phased out of gasoline to limit pollution and make the fuel less volatile (and thus less likely to boil off on a normal day and add to air pollution). The MON could be 80 and the RON 95, for example, not that many years ago. Now it is usually 82-83 and 91-93. If your vehicle is octane sensitive, it may run worse with "regular" from one refinery that has a MON of 83.5 as opposed to one with a MON of 81 or 82. This doesn't affect most people who use regular as the car is actually tuned for 85 octane fuel and will run slightly better on 87. |
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Quoted: The color of the advertising. These refineries and oil companies trade all sort of shit. It is probable that when you pull into the CITCO station you are filling your car with Shell, the ony difference being a couple of additives. Yep. My Dad worked at a refinery for 35 years, and there isn't any real difference between one gas or the other except for the advertising hype. Here is a tip my Dad did tell me...... Never buy gas from a gas station if you see the tanker truck refilling the tanks. When they fill the tanks it stirs up the sediment, and it will take a hour for the sediment to settle in gasoline and a full day for diesel. |
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The color of the advertising. These refineries and oil companies trade all sort of shit. It is probable that when you pull into the CITCO station you are filling your car with Shell, the ony difference being a couple of additives. Yep. My Dad worked at a refinery for 35 years, and there isn't any real difference between one gas or the other except for the advertising hype. Here is a tip my Dad did tell me...... Never buy gas from a gas station if you see the tanker truck refilling the tanks. When they fill the tanks it stirs up the sediment, and it will take a hour for the sediment to settle in gasoline and a full day for diesel. This is what I have heard as well. Of course you wouldn't know if a tanker just left 15 minutes before you arrived. |
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The color of the advertising. These refineries and oil companies trade all sort of shit. It is probable that when you pull into the CITCO station you are filling your car with Shell, the ony difference being a couple of additives. Yep. My Dad worked at a refinery for 35 years, and there isn't any real difference between one gas or the other except for the advertising hype. Here is a tip my Dad did tell me...... Never buy gas from a gas station if you see the tanker truck refilling the tanks. When they fill the tanks it stirs up the sediment, and it will take a hour for the sediment to settle in gasoline and a full day for diesel. This is what I have heard as well. Of course you wouldn't know if a tanker just left 15 minutes before you arrived. GW Bush's ethanol plan has had exactly one good result –– it has gotten rid of a lot of the water horizon in gasoline tanks because the ethanol sucks up the water and puts it right into your fuel tank. As a result, that's a lot less important now with gasoline. Now, diesel pumps at truck stops –– the fast-fill 40gpm (gallon per minute) pumps –– often have a wire screen filter that would keep something pretty big out (like a twig) but offer no finer filtration. Getting fuel from those places right after a fillup can be an issue. The lower-output pumps normally have a filter on them similar to the gasoline pumps, and will trap most of the sediment. Things have changed a little. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The color of the advertising. These refineries and oil companies trade all sort of shit. It is probable that when you pull into the CITCO station you are filling your car with Shell, the ony difference being a couple of additives. Yep. My Dad worked at a refinery for 35 years, and there isn't any real difference between one gas or the other except for the advertising hype. Here is a tip my Dad did tell me...... Never buy gas from a gas station if you see the tanker truck refilling the tanks. When they fill the tanks it stirs up the sediment, and it will take a hour for the sediment to settle in gasoline and a full day for diesel. This is what I have heard as well. Of course you wouldn't know if a tanker just left 15 minutes before you arrived. True. I also don't think the sediment would do all that much, other than clog your fuel filter faster, however if you can avoid the extra gunk..... |
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Quoted: GW Bush's ethanol plan has had exactly one good result –– it has gotten rid of a lot of the water horizon in gasoline tanks because the ethanol sucks up the water and puts it right into your fuel tank. As a result, that's a lot less important now with gasoline. Now, diesel pumps at truck stops –– the fast-fill 40gpm (gallon per minute) pumps –– often have a wire screen filter that would keep something pretty big out (like a twig) but offer no finer filtration. Getting fuel from those places right after a fillup can be an issue. The lower-output pumps normally have a filter on them similar to the gasoline pumps, and will trap most of the sediment. Things have changed a little. It's all Bush's fault that my advice is outdated...  |
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GW Bush's ethanol plan has had exactly one good result –– it has gotten rid of a lot of the water horizon in gasoline tanks because the ethanol sucks up the water and puts it right into your fuel tank. As a result, that's a lot less important now with gasoline. Now, diesel pumps at truck stops –– the fast-fill 40gpm (gallon per minute) pumps –– often have a wire screen filter that would keep something pretty big out (like a twig) but offer no finer filtration. Getting fuel from those places right after a fillup can be an issue. The lower-output pumps normally have a filter on them similar to the gasoline pumps, and will trap most of the sediment. Things have changed a little. It's all Bush's fault that my advice is outdated...
It's been changing for a while due to auto manufacturers adding better filters in the vehicles and then griping about better filtration at the pumps. On the diesel front, the better injectors and economy come at the price of tighter tolerances and more complexity. But, yeah, the ethanol did things that the oil industry mentioned back in the mid-1980s when CARB wanted to put methanol at 10% in all gasoline sold in California, surprising no one who was paying attention. On the bright side, the downstream retail gasoline infrastructure in pretty clean internally now because of the ethanol. |
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top tier gas
The two major factors in Gas is the additives and the station. The additive package is based off of the car companies bitching about either carbon deposits on the injectors or the valves. You can keep one clean, but not both, so the fuel brands pick additive packages to keep one clean vs the other. Branding also leads to the standards they enforce with the stations selling their gas. Shell and Mobil seem to give much more of a shit than BP about the state of the tanks and the pumps. The big thing is to pick a station or two that you like and get gas from them unless you are out of town. I get shell 2 blocks from my house, and Marathon a mile from work. Because I pretty much exclusively buy from those two stations, I know the managers, the ethanol %, the fill schedules, and the state of the tanks. |
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top tier gas The two major factors in Gas is the additives and the station. The additive package is based off of the car companies bitching about either carbon deposits on the injectors or the valves. You can keep one clean, but not both, so the fuel brands pick additive packages to keep one clean vs the other. Branding also leads to the standards they enforce with the stations selling their gas. Shell and Mobil seem to give much more of a shit than BP about the state of the tanks and the pumps. The big thing is to pick a station or two that you like and get gas from them unless you are out of town. I get shell 2 blocks from my house, and Marathon a mile from work. Because I pretty much exclusively buy from those two stations, I know the managers, the ethanol %, the fill schedules, and the state of the tanks. And with gasoline DI becoming common, there is about to be a third issue and that will be lubricity and wear related to that, just like with #2. |
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Unless your manufacturer says to put premium in your tank... why do you do so? Premium does NOT provide any more power except in one case, which I will explain below.
Gasoline used to come out of the distillery as what we called "White Gas." It had no additives. When put into even a low-compression vehicle, it would ping like crazy. Refineries started adding different levels of tetraethyl lead* to reduce the "ping." Ping sounds like someone doing a drum solo with the pearl-ended drumsticks on your cylinder heads. Anyone who's driven an older VW (with an air-cooled engine) knows what ping sounds like. Ping is caused by predetonation. This happens when the fuel detonates due to high temperatures and high compression, instead of being ignited by the spark plugs. So V-8 engines, which have high compression ratios (1-12 or more) require high test (high octane) gasoline to prevent ping. Lower compression engines (1-8 or so) could get by with lower octane ratings, because they wouldn't "predetonate" the fuel in the cylinder. Ping WILL decrease the amount of power your engine produces. So if you are hearing ping, change the octane rating on your gasoline, otherwise use the cheapest, lowest-octane gas your car can handle. So, unless the manufacturer has some reason for high octane in your engine, you are throwing away about ten cents or more per gallon each time you fill up. *Tetraethyl lead was banned in the 1970s IIRC because of "lead" pollution. They use other chemicals now. |
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Unless your manufacturer says to put premium in your tank... why do you do so? Premium does NOT provide any more power except in one case, which I will explain below. Gasoline used to come out of the distillery as what we called "White Gas." It had no additives. When put into even a low-compression vehicle, it would ping like crazy. Refineries started adding different levels of tetraethyl lead* to reduce the "ping." Ping sounds like someone doing a drum solo with the pearl-ended drumsticks on your cylinder heads. Anyone who's driven an older VW (with an air-cooled engine) knows what ping sounds like. Ping is caused by predetonation. This happens when the fuel detonates due to high temperatures and high compression, instead of being ignited by the spark plugs. So V-8 engines, which have high compression ratios (1-12 or more) require high test (high octane) gasoline to prevent ping. Lower compression engines (1-8 or so) could get by with lower octane ratings, because they wouldn't "predetonate" the fuel in the cylinder. Ping WILL decrease the amount of power your engine produces. So if you are hearing ping, change the octane rating on your gasoline, otherwise use the cheapest, lowest-octane gas your car can handle. So, unless the manufacturer has some reason for high octane in your engine, you are throwing away about ten cents or more per gallon each time you fill up. *Tetraethyl lead was banned in the 1970s IIRC because of "lead" pollution. They use other chemicals now. The Porsche says premium only. The Toureg says premium only. The Ranger runs a HELL of a lot better with premium, and gets more MPG. Not really after power, just best for engine and premium makes it run great. I really don't feel like its a waste. 195k miles and only one broken valve spring and an oxy sensor, period. |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. |
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2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. Your truck is not running properly, you should get it fixed. Putting higher octane gas in your tank does not help unless something is wrong i.e. band aid fix. In fact usually a higher octane fuel will make less power in a vehicle that is not tuned for it. |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? You'll have to be more specific, man. There's a difference between actual "dieseling" and an engine simply "sounding like a diesel". Which one is it? From what I remember reading, the Ranger's 3.0 (Inline 4, right?) is pretty basic and may inherently be more noisy than most engines. Other conditions that would contribute to noise would include valve problems, exhaust leaks, and out of balance. Still, the ECM will have plenty of controls in place to adjust timing, and should do well enough on 87. Given that you aren't driving a Mercedes Benz that should be inherently quiet, it would seem optimal to just get the engine running well and then doing routine maintenance to keep it going. If it's loud, it's loud. What motor oil do you use? What spark plugs and wires? |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? If memory serves me correctly, there were something like 4 TSB's on ping/knock issues with that era ranger. Every one I dealt with boiled down to ignition or carbon deposits. First pull the TSB's, second check your coil and your timing. If they are good, then it is probably carbon deposits on the valves and top of the chamber, which is soaking up fuel that then detonates later. In your case I am going to guess that the god aweful ignition system that ford cobbled together from leftover parts that they pawned off on ranger owners was causing incomplete fuel burn, couple that with the shitty timing job that the ford factory does and you get a dirty fucking combustion chamber, most of that soot and carbon get sucked out the exhaust and just clog up your cat, but some of it settles on the roof of the chamber, and on the valves. The carbon sucks up fuel, which leads to a lean condition in the chamber, and when enough fuel accumulates in the carbon it will flash off at random points in the combustion cycle, You hear the last two as ping and knock. Start with the ignition and timing, after that is good to go, then check your compression. If there is a doubt about it just pull the heads, have them cleaned and change the head gasket, it's a ford so it was on it's last leg from day one. If it is good then soak the pistons with MCCC, suck the sand out, then run some more through the intake/pcv. and change your spark plugs. |
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The color of the advertising. These refineries and oil companies trade all sort of shit. It is probable that when you pull into the CITCO station you are filling your car with Shell, the ony difference being a couple of additives. Yep. My Dad worked at a refinery for 35 years, and there isn't any real difference between one gas or the other except for the advertising hype. Here is a tip my Dad did tell me...... Never buy gas from a gas station if you see the tanker truck refilling the tanks. When they fill the tanks it stirs up the sediment, and it will take a hour for the sediment to settle in gasoline and a full day for diesel. This is what I have heard as well. Of course you wouldn't know if a tanker just left 15 minutes before you arrived. GW Bush's ethanol plan has had exactly one good result –– it has gotten rid of a lot of the water horizon in gasoline tanks because the ethanol sucks up the water and puts it right into your fuel tank. As a result, that's a lot less important now with gasoline. Now, diesel pumps at truck stops –– the fast-fill 40gpm (gallon per minute) pumps –– often have a wire screen filter that would keep something pretty big out (like a twig) but offer no finer filtration. Getting fuel from those places right after a fillup can be an issue. The lower-output pumps normally have a filter on them similar to the gasoline pumps, and will trap most of the sediment. Things have changed a little. This wouldn't be exactly correct. The stations my company owns are running filters on all the pumps. Even the high speed diesel pumps that trap water and any sediment built up in the tank. If one of the tanks gets too low before a transport, happens to be a premium tank, the maintenance guy will be out there changing the filter Every couple of hours. |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? You'll have to be more specific, man. There's a difference between actual "dieseling" and an engine simply "sounding like a diesel". Which one is it? From what I remember reading, the Ranger's 3.0 (Inline 4, right?) is pretty basic and may inherently be more noisy than most engines. Other conditions that would contribute to noise would include valve problems, exhaust leaks, and out of balance. Still, the ECM will have plenty of controls in place to adjust timing, and should do well enough on 87. Given that you aren't driving a Mercedes Benz that should be inherently quiet, it would seem optimal to just get the engine running well and then doing routine maintenance to keep it going. If it's loud, it's loud. What motor oil do you use? What spark plugs and wires? How in the hell would I know which it is? If I use less than premium, at higher RPM, it pings. Period. It's a V-6, pushrod. The engine has always run very, very well. Very reliable, no loss of power. Smooth RPMs, smooth idle. Never smokes. Just one broken valve spring. No idea what brand but had plugs and wires done about 6 months back. I use 5w30 oil, Mobile 1. Never backfired, never stalled. I have used it hard. |
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Unless your car specifically states to use premium gas in it you are wasting your money.  My car gets a HP boost... But it's made to do that... Lead in gas was phased out in the mid 1980s...that was the last time it was available... Nope. I was blending Shell regular leaded gas with unleaded premium in Washington state until I transferred in 1992, the feds mandated the end of leaded regular on 01 Jan 1995. |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? I had to run premuim in a '78 Ford 200 I-6 due to bad valve guide umbrellas allowing oil to enter the combustion chambers which I'm guessing would lower the final octane rating . Cost $9 & a few hours to fix it, then it went to zero oil consumption & spark plugs lasted forever. |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? If memory serves me correctly, there were something like 4 TSB's on ping/knock issues with that era ranger. Every one I dealt with boiled down to ignition or carbon deposits. First pull the TSB's, second check your coil and your timing. If they are good, then it is probably carbon deposits on the valves and top of the chamber, which is soaking up fuel that then detonates later. In your case I am going to guess that the god aweful ignition system that ford cobbled together from leftover parts that they pawned off on ranger owners was causing incomplete fuel burn, couple that with the shitty timing job that the ford factory does and you get a dirty fucking combustion chamber, most of that soot and carbon get sucked out the exhaust and just clog up your cat, but some of it settles on the roof of the chamber, and on the valves. The carbon sucks up fuel, which leads to a lean condition in the chamber, and when enough fuel accumulates in the carbon it will flash off at random points in the combustion cycle, You hear the last two as ping and knock. Start with the ignition and timing, after that is good to go, then check your compression. If there is a doubt about it just pull the heads, have them cleaned and change the head gasket, it's a ford so it was on it's last leg from day one. If it is good then soak the pistons with MCCC, suck the sand out, then run some more through the intake/pcv. and change your spark plugs. I get what your saying, but to me, the guy with 195k miles on a truck that has been abused and driven hard, you just sound like another uneducated ford hater. Last leg from day 1? Ummm, I guess I bought the only great truck they ever put out. I must be one lucky guy. Maybe I should have bought Toyota? I mean, really? All that because I run super and not 87??? Always have, always will. More MPG as well. Has new plugs. Definatly not pulling heads at 195 just to use 87 as suggested above. Runs flawless to be honest. |
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Don't you have an S10? Why the premium in the S10? 2000 Ranger, 3.0. Knocks (dieseling) with mid grade or less. I've always run super. There is a more fundamental problem you need to address. That truck should run fine on 87. Unless you're just riding it out until you can sell it. Maybe it's just cheaper for you to pay the extra 20-30c per gallon over 87 to use premium than pay to repair the engine. So what would this indicate? It's always run better ( no diesel sound) with Super. Always. So if it runs great with premium, I should do a $2500 top half rebuild so I can use 87 octane? I had to run premuim in a '78 Ford 200 I-6 due to bad valve guide umbrellas allowing oil to enter the combustion chambers which I'm guessing would lower the final octane rating . Cost $9 & a few hours to fix it, then it went to zero oil consumption & spark plugs lasted forever. Just a bit easier on yours than a 2000 V-6. I'll just run the super like I've been doing. If it shows any sign of engine issues, I'll get another truck. |
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Unless your manufacturer says to put premium in your tank... why do you do so? Premium does NOT provide any more power except in one case, which I will explain below. Gasoline used to come out of the distillery as what we called "White Gas." It had no additives. When put into even a low-compression vehicle, it would ping like crazy. Refineries started adding different levels of tetraethyl lead* to reduce the "ping." Ping sounds like someone doing a drum solo with the pearl-ended drumsticks on your cylinder heads. Anyone who's driven an older VW (with an air-cooled engine) knows what ping sounds like. Ping is caused by predetonation. This happens when the fuel detonates due to high temperatures and high compression, instead of being ignited by the spark plugs. So V-8 engines, which have high compression ratios (1-12 or more) require high test (high octane) gasoline to prevent ping. Lower compression engines (1-8 or so) could get by with lower octane ratings, because they wouldn't "predetonate" the fuel in the cylinder. Ping WILL decrease the amount of power your engine produces. So if you are hearing ping, change the octane rating on your gasoline, otherwise use the cheapest, lowest-octane gas your car can handle. So, unless the manufacturer has some reason for high octane in your engine, you are throwing away about ten cents or more per gallon each time you fill up. *Tetraethyl lead was banned in the 1970s IIRC because of "lead" pollution. They use other chemicals now. The Porsche says premium only. The Toureg says premium only. The Ranger runs a HELL of a lot better with premium, and gets more MPG. Not really after power, just best for engine and premium makes it run great. I really don't feel like its a waste. 195k miles and only one broken valve spring and an oxy sensor, period. If you're really getting better MPG, then go for it. The price difference nowadays will more than make up for any savings you'd have with 87. |