[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gut check (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/10/2012 3:40:14 PM EDT
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Poll incoming
OK... everyone is up in arms about the cost of Government. Everyone knows it is entitlements which are the problem overall. Social security being one of the worst. Now... reality and UNREALITY wise, theoretically, lets just say that through some force of cost containment, we could completely eliminate the debt over the course of the next 20 years, but the final way we had to do it was that all 'elderly' who could not afford to completely afford to live on their own, via prior financial planning, HAD to live with their family. ie Walton's style living. (exceptions for those without children any family excluded). In the past... there were no 'nursing homes' and somehow... families were closer and our debt was much less. I know... there is much more than simply SS costs... healthcare, welfare, etc etc etc etc etc. lets pretend that is all 'fixed' but the last piece of the pie was this element. And without it... none of the other 'fixes' could work at all. If we could 'FIX' the economy and eliminate the debt over the next 20 years... would you let "Mom and Dad" live with you until the passed on? AND!!! Would YOU live with your children when you got to 'that age'? These are the only two options to fix the mess we are in... "so would ya'??? punk???" . . |
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What about all the money I've paid into social security? Aaaaannd this is why the problem will never get fixed. yep, my parents are well off, but I have bought a house with room in case. They are welcome to stay with me. My kids taking care of me, no thanks, take me out on one last hunting trip. The money I have paid in ,keep it, just dont take another red cent. Fixing these problems is NOT going to be easy. The question is going to be who will do it, us or our kids, or their grandkids? speed |
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Quoted: Does this mean we have to say "Goodnight John Boy" and "Goodnight Mary Ellen" to each other every night?  I wanna room with Mary Ellen. edit: added linky |
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My kids won't be able to take care of me. They can barely take care of themselves. That's a shame. I can take care of my mom (father is dead) and will be more than happy to when the time comes; She spent countless years and tears taking care of me and I don't see why I shouldn't reciprocate. |
| My parents should be ok. Their house is paid off and they have my dads pension and SS and investments to live off of. But if they needed it I would probably sell my house and move back in with them. Since its highly unlikely I will ever have a family of my own and I have no emotional attachment to my house that would be what makes the most sense. Hopefully they will continue along with healthy lives free of serious illness. |
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When people are talking about reforming social security and they say, "We must keep the past promises to today's seniors, but that system won't work forever, so we'll need to reform the way it works for future retirees," to me, that equals, TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN!
Edit: And it will work, because they have a much more powerful voting block than I do. The most powerful demographic in this country is frightened old people. They will wield that political power to rape me and steal my money. And they'll get away with it, too. |
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What about all the money I've paid into social security? Aaaaannd this is why the problem will never get fixed. Yup. I've spoken with older people about this issue. They all want the problem fixed but won't settle for anything that doesn't allow them to get all of their money back. I ask them if they understand that their money will come from me. Then they say how bad they feel for me because they know that I will never get my money back. They say they're so sorry because they know the system won't be intact for me when I retire. You see, that's a lie. They don't feel bad, and they're not sorry. If they were, they would settle for a fair solution that doesn't let the entire social security system fall onto and crush the younger generations. |
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Quoted: What about all the money I've paid into social security? As long as you keep asking that question, they are going to keep sending it to hood rats and ghetto goblins. If we pretend that the system is sound and can be fixed as it is, we will keep throwing good money after bad. Once we realize that the system is broken beyond repair, and that any money paid in, has been spent and is gone, we can move on. |
| I'm 30 years old, and have been paying into the SS system for half of my life. If they would let me stop paying today, I would say thanks. I'm under no illusion that this country will be in any shape to pay me my "benefits" when and if I make it to 65 or whatever. How about this: I don't pay into this bullshit scam and either save up and budget wisely, or starve to death quietly? Seems fair to me. |
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What about all the money I've paid into social security? Aaaaannd this is why the problem will never get fixed. That's also why it was broken in the first place. SS has never been about "getting back what you paid in", it has always been about paying for the previous generation, and relying on the next generation to pay for you, regardless of what the original lie was. The first person to receive SS benefits paid in something like 20 dollars, and collected something like 20 THOUSAND dollars in disbursements. The money came from the workforce of the time, not the generation receiving the money. Also, SS has never been a "retirement plan". It is an "old age" safety net for when you are no longer capable of providing for yourself through gainful employment, not a free meal ticket so you can live your last 30 years in leisure. Sooner or later, it's got to end, and a lot of people are going to have to deal with the reality that "all the money I paid in" is gone, and it is not possible to get it back. My generation(I'm 29) and my father's generation(he's 60) need to be the ones to bite the bullet, for the sake of the Republic. |
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You don't PAY BACK 16 trillion dollars. You inflate that debt away and/or drive your inflation into other nations and keep the world reserve currency. Simply put, you rape everyone else by exporting ever inflating currency in exchange for cheaply manufactured goods until they finally have had enough and then you point at the military you built with all your debt and dare them to come take it. ETA: Oh, and we've not only already spent 16T, we've already laid the ground work and made the promise to spend upwards of 100T on future liabilities. |
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It wouldn't be that hard to fix it really.
Start with an annual or biannual review of all disability recipients. That should kick out about 1/4 of the burden. Stop giving SS to anyone that has enough investments or assets to retire on without it. That would cut out about another 1/4. Bam, you just cut SS in half. eta: Start drug testing for all welfare recipients and I bet you could cut that budget by at least 1/4 also. |
I am 27. All but one grandparent and parent have passed on. Unfortunately, the two left will not be with me very much longer. I have no intention of having kids, ever. Bring on the end of the welfare state. ETA: I am doing my damnest to ensure I have a little something to live on when the time comes. There will no person or program to support me. If my savings run out before I do, it will be time for one last trip in the woods.  |
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It wouldn't be that hard to fix it really. Start with an annual or biannual review of all disability recipients. That should kick out about 1/4 of the burden. Stop giving SS to anyone that has enough investments or assets to retire on without it. That would cut out about another 1/4. Bam, you just cut SS in half. eta: Start drug testing for all welfare recipients and I bet you could cut that budget by at least 1/4 also. I have kicked people out of my office because they test positive for drugs. I have had patients ask me to be put on Disability. They really don't like it when I tell them that the reason their back and knees hurt is because they are carrying around 2 people on 1 body. I won't give DI until they have a BMI below 25. Needless to say... I rarely am putting people on DI. Disability has increased hugely over the last few years. I agree we should really decrease the ease at getting it. And there should be stiff penalties for those who abuse it. (ie fines paid for either financially or through confiscation of property) Take away "Joe's" pickup if he gets caught... and he will think twice about playing the system. |
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This is a legitimate question. College professors in Public Administration programs have been discussing this for years. Seriously, what are you/we as a society going to do with all the old people and genuinely disabled people (thalidomide babies/birth defects, quadriplegics, accident victims, etc.)? There are a LOT of these folks, like it or not. A LOT.
They're going to die without care. So what do we do, sit them on the street corner and let them die in full view of the public? That would be...uncomfortable...for everyone, even the less sensitive types. Maybe take them off somewhere out in the woods and let them die there so nobody can see the ghastly spectacle? Still, we would all know... Fuck. We can't just leave them there and let the animals eat them. As civilized people we would have to at least shoot them and end their suffering. But who is going to do the shooting? The State Police? Doctors? The military? The Mafia? The Crips? Who? No shooting? Then what's your suggestion? It's a question that is going to have to be answered one way or the other. As a society we either take care of invalids or we don't. We could half-ass around and let "non-profits" and "volunteers" do what they can, but that would be a drop in the bucket. We are all going to get old and feeble if we live long enough. Millions of people have no family or none able/willing to care for them and change their diapers. Some will have the fortitude to go off somewhere and end it themselves (I suspect this might be easier for veterans because a lot of us expected to get shot anyway: the thought of going out like a soldier doesn't bother me since it's a much better option than rotting away from some hideous disease). The point is we are running out of money with which to make our collective conscience rest easy. So what do we do 
By the way, I don't claim to have an answer. |
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My parents were both very frugal as they grew older and saved wisely. Now that they are both retired , they are comfortably enjoying their golden years . They arent rich , but they arent wanting for anything . I dont see them ever needing to move in with either my sister or I , however if it's ever needed , they are welcome anytime  |
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Any of my family members that are unable to care for themselves are welcome to live with me. I know it takes commitment and sacrifice but that's what you do for family. What if you were working poor and could take care of yourself - barely - but not someone else? Let's say your small apartment - which you can barely afford - is not nearly big enough for Grandma and her oxygen tanks and wheelchair and walker. Who is going to care for her during the day/night when you are working? Who is going to change her diapers or fix her colostomy bag or whatever? I admire your selflessness and sense of responsibility (I'm serious about that), but for a lot of folks there just wouldn't be any way to take care of an elderly disabled person. 
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My dad and my step mom have money put away that I will never know about until they are passed and we read the will. My dad was always one of those guys that never had any money when you asked him. Cheap bastard.
My mom had most of her money stolen by her 2nd husband and now that she is 70 I have debated brining her to my house for her to live. She lives off of her SS and some money that her mom still gives her to pay rent ona dumpy little apartment in a dumpy little town. I tell my daughter that Im living with her one day and she often tells me I had better be careful or she wont let me live with her. Dang smart ass kid.
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A dirty little secret of the Social Security and Retirement homes industry is that Social Security and even Medicare doesn't come close to covering the cost of those staying in those homes.
You know how many elederly every year have to sign over everything they own to the retirement home? The amount of wealth that's sucked into that industry every year is staggering. |
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I am putting my mom in an assisted living center. She needs people her age to be around and talk with. She makes friends easily, and she's been falling a lot since my dad died in August. She is going downhill fast. Going down to Coperas Cove Stoneybrook to check out a one bedroom today. The reason it wouldn't work living at home with us is because she has had a few strokes now, and she can't move around on her own. We have way too much stuff in this small 2 bedroom house. We are newly arrived in Texas, and this is all we could afford right now. Plus, the VA will give her 1100 a month on top of her SS and pension she gets from my dad who took a 30% cut in his pension from the Air Force 25 years ago so that she'd get 55% of his monthly pension. That total will cover her monthly rent at the assisted living home. Damn those places are expensive as fark. Fark me 2400 a month, I guess it's a good business to be in. |
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I would take care of any family member in need for whatever reason.
I wouldn't like it for some of the miscreants I am related to, but I would do it. I told my kid the other day to put me on a leash if I get dementia and to take me out every once in a while for shits and giggles. |
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I kinda weaseled out of the whole "taking care of the folks" thing, since my parents died when I was 19 (12 years ago.) But my in-law? (just mother since father in law is dead) Hell yes my mother in law can live with me... her and her daughter (my wife) are the two most entertaining, fun to be around people I know.
Regarding my kids? I hope the little bastards are out of my basement and on their own by that point, they just have no drive. I'm about to shove my 16 year old's computer up his ass and drop him off at a homeless shelter till he understands work ethic, respect, and obedience a little better. |