[ARCHIVED THREAD] - CAS (Page 1 of 9)
Posted: 8/10/2012 9:14:47 AM EDT
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Is there units within the AF that are dedicated to working with infantry on the ground? Or is there any training put forth to improve the relationship between the asset in the sky and the asset on the ground? Wouldn't it be more intelligent to have a unit dedicated to providing CAS for infantry and that fell under infantry command? Yes it's that beat to shit topic but I always see it come up in other threads, not a thread dedicated to it. |
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What to know what's awesome about embedded JTACs from the Air Force? They get confused and drop a 500 pound JDAM on the house that the unit they are embedded with is 30 seconds away from raiding. Ours dropped a 2000 lb JDAM on a field we were in 30 seconds prior. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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What to know what's awesome about embedded JTACs from the Air Force? They get confused and drop a 500 pound JDAM on the house that the unit they are embedded with is 30 seconds away from raiding. Ours dropped a 2000 lb JDAM on a field we were in 30 seconds prior. 
It's a good thing the man in the sky is looking out for some of us, because the guys on the ground often aren't. |
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Air combat controllers I was in '76-'86. Every da-da-damn ACC I 've met had their shit on one bag. Air Force Security... well hell, those bastages were cloned from the same cells, from the same test tube: +6ft, +220lbs, blond, mellow but brutal, and... the German language made them smirk. 
God Bless 'em, every da-da-damn one of 'em. |
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What to know what's awesome about embedded JTACs from the Air Force? They get confused and drop a 500 pound JDAM on the house that the unit they are embedded with is 30 seconds away from raiding. Ours dropped a 2000 lb JDAM on a field we were in 30 seconds prior.
It's a good thing the man in the sky is looking out for some of us, because the guys on the ground often aren't. I'm just glad we got the whole "turn south now, and RUN!!!" Warning before it hit Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Air combat controllers I was in '76-'86. Every da-da-damn ACC I 've met had their shit on one bag. Air Force Security... well hell, those bastages were cloned from the same cells, from the same test tube: +6ft, +220lbs, blond, mellow but brutal, and... the German language made them smirk.
God Bless 'em, every da-da-damn one of 'em. Didn't you learn anything in school!?!?! Crack is whack! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: What to know what's awesome about embedded JTACs from the Air Force? They get confused and drop a 500 pound JDAM on the house that the unit they are embedded with is 30 seconds away from raiding. This happens more often when they aren't around. Navy Seals have dropped ordnance on themselves quite often, or danger close surprise.
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Alright, let me re-frame the argument. Why couldn't Army brass decide "We are creating a fixed wing attack aircraft unit and it will answer directly to the Commander on the ground. It will be an Army asset and Army controlled."
Why can't Sylvan have his Super Tucanos? |
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Alright, let me re-frame the argument. Why couldn't Army brass decide "We are creating a fixed wing attack aircraft unit and it will answer directly to the Commander on the ground. It will be an Army asset and Army controlled." Why can't Sylvan have his Super Tucanos? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West_Agreement |
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Quoted: Alright, let me re-frame the argument. Why couldn't Army brass decide "We are creating a fixed wing attack aircraft unit and it will answer directly to the Commander on the ground. It will be an Army asset and Army controlled." Why can't Sylvan have his Super Tucanos? the AF would never allow it |
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Alright, let me re-frame the argument. Why couldn't Army brass decide "We are creating a fixed wing attack aircraft unit and it will answer directly to the Commander on the ground. It will be an Army asset and Army controlled." Why can't Sylvan have his Super Tucanos? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West_Agreement According to some, isn't really working anymore. Quoted:
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Alright, let me re-frame the argument. Why couldn't Army brass decide "We are creating a fixed wing attack aircraft unit and it will answer directly to the Commander on the ground. It will be an Army asset and Army controlled." Why can't Sylvan have his Super Tucanos? the AF would never allow it And who are they to dictate to the Army? |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers...
I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! |
| Give the Amry more flexibility with airspace clearance or just follow existing procedures with TAIS (Tactical Airspace Integration System) and I can provide more responsive support with GMLRS. Max time of flight for my rockets is around 2min depending on range and I have essentially infinite loiter time. |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. |
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Give the Amry more flexibility with airspace clearance or just follow existing procedures with TAIS (Tactical Airspace Integration System) and I can provide more responsive support with GMLRS. Max time of flight for my rockets is around 2min depending on range and I have essentially infinite loiter time. This. |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's..." No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's..." No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. I'm betting they could quickly gain that capability. And why shouldn't the Army have A-10's if they decided it would make for a more effective fighting force? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's... and all of their maintenance personnel" No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. That was easy |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's..." No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. I'm betting they could quickly gain that capability. And why shouldn't the Army have A-10's if they decided it would make for a more effective fighting force? It takes the average Airman 6 years to become a basic Craftsman, red X qualified maintainer. Most likely 8-10 years to become a fully qualified AR troop, and even more time to become one of the exceptional release signers. Not to mention, the Army doesn't have egress qualified folks (ejection seats), AR troops who work specifically with flight control systems, landing gear or canopy systems, that are on none of the Army aircraft, different avionics, the engine troops have to learn a completely different engine. What you don't realize that the Army doesn't have the tool sets for the A-10 that it requires, they probably don't have a clue they even exist, and they have no idea how to use them. All the legacy aircraft had specific tools sets, for their particularly different airframes, and none of these tools sets, work with the other planes because they were all made by different manufacturers, and none of those tools are being made any more. ETA: A lot of those tools are also gone, the ones that re-enter the supply system from shut down units are quickly snatched up by the remaining units, and those old one are completely useless and headed for DRMO as scrap and those are never going to be made again. Not to mention they Army doesn't have the hangers, the runways or any of extended maintenance structures that the Air Force does, besides at specific joint bases. So good luck asking the AF for permission to park your planes (our planes) on our bases.... The AF has been maintaining the A-10 for nearly 41 years...the Army doesn't have a clue even where to start going down this road, and it would need a host of former A-10 maintainers to even have a chance at being mildly successful in doing that. If the Army wants a CAS aircraft like the A-10 it needs to build that program from the ground up with a modern aircraft with direction of maintenance with the contractor, that time has passed for the A-10. |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's... and all of their maintenance personnel" No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. That was easy I signed my contract with the AF not the Army. If Soldiers want to play Airman they need to talk to a different recruiter. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's... and all of their maintenance personnel" No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. That was easy I signed my contract with the AF not the Army. If Soldiers want to play Airman they need to talk to a different recruiter. We don't really want your planes or people. In order of priority, we would like: - More flexibility in use of airspace for indirect fire - FW CAS platform belonging to the Army. Something inexpensive flown by Warrants or  enlisted pilots- Get the Air Force out of the UAS business below the "Global Hawk" level |
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We don't really want your planes or people. In order of priority, we would like: - More flexibility in use of airspace for indirect fire I thought most of the low level restrictions were to give space to rotary wing. - FW CAS platform belonging to the Army. Something inexpensive flown by Warrants or enlisted pilots
- Get the Air Force out of the UAS business below the "Global Hawk" level Why? |
| As a prior service ANGLICO Marine , I've worked with units from all over the world. USAF CAC/TACP were some of sharpest troop's I ever worked with. ANGLICO |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's... and all of their maintenance personnel" No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. That was easy I signed my contract with the AF not the Army. If Soldiers want to play Airman they need to talk to a different recruiter. We don't really want your planes or people. In order of priority, we would like: - More flexibility in use of airspace for indirect fire - FW CAS platform belonging to the Army. Something inexpensive flown by Warrants or enlisted pilots
- Get the Air Force out of the UAS business below the "Global Hawk" level You have a tough nut to crack trying to dictate anything about "airspace" to the "Air Force". Those decisions where made along time ago, by people at higher pay grades than any of the Arfcom armchair Generals. CAS is a small part of the picture, the Army has a much business being concerned about Strategic bombing, aerial refueling, global logistics, air-superiority and air-interdiction as the AF does telling the Army how to fight on the ground. The Army's fight is on the ground, the Air Force's is in the air. |
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Quoted: Quoted: We don't really want your planes or people. In order of priority, we would like: - More flexibility in use of airspace for indirect fire I thought most of the low level restrictions were to give space to rotary wing. - FW CAS platform belonging to the Army. Something inexpensive flown by Warrants or enlisted pilots- Get the Air Force out of the UAS business below the "Global Hawk" level Why? Damn, I jsut lst a long reply. Rotary airspace, what little the AF gives us, is not the problem. The AF not playing in the digital airspace management game is the problem. Why should I have to kill entire keypads of airspace to make a pilot feel more comfortable when I already know where he is and know the exact flight path of my rocket? If Joe JetJockey would play with the digital systems, I could even show him. Instead the AF makes us clear air by voice in these huge blocks and routinely kills missions because there is an aircraft within 50 miles of the target. I want the AF out of the UAS business because the responsiveness of a pilot in Nellis sucks when you are on the ground in Iraq sucks |
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Give the Amry more flexibility with airspace clearance or just follow existing procedures with TAIS (Tactical Airspace Integration System) and I can provide more responsive support with GMLRS. Max time of flight for my rockets is around 2min depending on range and I have essentially infinite loiter time. This. Not in the same ballpark. Not even the same game. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. Not trying to start a pissing match. But my equipment is always the one that everyone covets for the CAS asset that the Army needs... These threads typically fall into "Army should have the A-10's and AC-130's... and all of their maintenance personnel" No, I disagree, the Army has helicopter and light wing experience, they don't have any experience maintaining high performance or heavy aircraft. That was easy I signed my contract with the AF not the Army. If Soldiers want to play Airman they need to talk to a different recruiter. We don't really want your planes or people. In order of priority, we would like: - More flexibility in use of airspace for indirect fire - FW CAS platform belonging to the Army. Something inexpensive flown by Warrants or enlisted pilots- Get the Air Force out of the UAS business below the "Global Hawk" level You have a tough nut to crack trying to dictate anything about "airspace" to the "Air Force". Those decisions where made along time ago, by people at higher pay grades than any of the Arfcom armchair Generals. CAS is a small part of the picture, the Army has a much business being concerned about Strategic bombing, aerial refueling, global logistics, air-superiority and air-interdiction as the AF does telling the Army how to fight on the ground. The Army's fight is on the ground, the Air Force's is in the air. Wrong on a few counts. CAS is a small part of YOUR picture. In the current fight, it is everything and should be YOUR only concern. How much Strategic bombing, air superiority, and air interdiction are you guys doing these days? I'm not trying to "dictate" airspace. I am simply trying to get the AF to play in the Joitn Management system that we all agreed to but they won't do it. THe ultimate objective here is to win the fight on the ground. Until we invade the Hawkmen's flying city, the fight on the groung is the fight. Funny thing about the airspace issue. I never had any problems shooting into MNF-west because the Marines controlled their own airspace and they cared about results and played the joint system. |
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We don't really want your planes or people. In order of priority, we would like: - More flexibility in use of airspace for indirect fire I thought most of the low level restrictions were to give space to rotary wing. - FW CAS platform belonging to the Army. Something inexpensive flown by Warrants or enlisted pilots
- Get the Air Force out of the UAS business below the "Global Hawk" level Why? Damn, I jsut lst a long reply. Rotary airspace, what little the AF gives us, is not the problem. The AF not playing in the digital airspace management game is the problem. Why should I have to kill entire keypads of airspace to make a pilot feel more comfortable when I already know where he is and know the exact flight path of my rocket? If Joe JetJockey would play with the digital systems, I could even show him. Instead the AF makes us clear air by voice in these huge blocks and routinely kills missions because there is an aircraft within 50 miles of the target. I want the AF out of the UAS business because the responsiveness of a pilot in Nellis sucks when you are on the ground in Iraq sucks That isn't always the case. A lot of those pilots are in the local AOR. We are touching OPSEC territory here, but that isn't always the way it is now. |
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Huh, sure send some Army dudes over so we can start teaching them how to take care of fast movers... I can provide a lot of training on how and what we do for the Army. I would love to have some Soldiers over to see what go's into these aircraft, I just put in my 12 hour shift of maintenance, in a 95+ degree hanger in 100% humidity sucking in JP8 fumes and being sprayed with hydro, oil, and wiping sweat/bugs out of my face... Oh, and thanks to the 36th FS assholes who rolled in a MLG tire into the shop at 0130 this morning expecting it to be done in 12 hours...FU. Sorry, it's 0330 here Saturday morning and I just got off work, no beer in the fridge and I am beat! The USAF is incredibly protective of JTAC certification. As for maintenance, my crews routinely repair their tracks under the same conditions, and they spend up to 19 hours a day repairing tracks when one is broken. We do the same thing on different equipment. No need for a pissing match. The SOTACC program was rather unpopular with the AF at one point. Not so much now. |