Posted: 7/28/2012 5:05:11 PM EDT
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Ive got some '80s vehicles that are a bitch to keep simple things like turning signals reliably working due to age and corrosion
New save the planet vehicles have thousands of wires and sensors simply to go down the road How is it environmentally friendly when these complicated hunks of shit can't go down the road anymore and end up in junkyards unlike the old school shit that i can spend a little time on and make them 100% again? Give me a junkyard pre-computer car and i can get it back on the road with MY limited knowledge, not the case currently ETA: doesnt that cancel out all the emissions horseshit? |
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I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me either. I wish they'd go back to making cars without all the electronic sensor bullshit. As for electric cars, they can stick em up their ass. I don't need this shit... I live in Buffalo, they salt the hell out of the roads, it's bad enough trying to keep the metal intact.  |
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http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg846/scaled.php?server=846&filename=32168995.jpg&res=landing http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=51067029.jpg&res=landing Need to rip out the CFI and go to a straight carb and ditch all those extra wires. However, environmentally friendly it's not, apparently burning 10+ tons of GHG a year.  (According to the .gov)
We do tend to forget the ten miles of vacuum hose, and parts as fun to work on as feedback carbs. Of course I remember the vehicles in those days, and simple or not, they weren't as reliable as a newer vehicle. Hell, my 98 Neon isn't nearly as complicated as a new vehicle, and it went well over 100K before needing any kind of serious work, it has over 150K now and the only major repair was a head gasket that I did myself in an afternoon. |
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http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg846/scaled.php?server=846&filename=32168995.jpg&res=landing http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=51067029.jpg&res=landing Need to rip out the CFI and go to a straight carb and ditch all those extra wires. However, environmentally friendly it's not, apparently burning 10+ tons of GHG a year. (According to the .gov)
We do tend to forget the ten miles of vacuum hose, and parts as fun to work on as feedback carbs. Of course I remember the vehicles in those days, and simple or not, they weren't as reliable as a newer vehicle. Hell, my 98 Neon isn't nearly as complicated as a new vehicle, and it went well over 100K before needing any kind of serious work, it has over 150K now and the only major repair was a head gasket that I did myself in an afternoon. That and when you go back too far you don't realize what kind of death trap some of those older cars were. I recently saw a video of a crash test between a modern car and one from ike the 60s or the 70s and the old car was destroyed including the passenger compartment while the modern car crumpled in all the right places and left the interior almost completely intact. This was the test but there is a lot more description in this one... 
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| The hybrids are not eco friendly and you can freely slap any hippy that says they are. The big ass batterys in them are more toxic than the rest of the entire car, and the oil burner turned in as a down payment, combined. That said, the new ones (with some major exceptions) are a lot better than the old ones. |
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http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg846/scaled.php?server=846&filename=32168995.jpg&res=landing http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=51067029.jpg&res=landing Need to rip out the CFI and go to a straight carb and ditch all those extra wires. However, environmentally friendly it's not, apparently burning 10+ tons of GHG a year. (According to the .gov)
We do tend to forget the ten miles of vacuum hose, and parts as fun to work on as feedback carbs. Of course I remember the vehicles in those days, and simple or not, they weren't as reliable as a newer vehicle. Hell, my 98 Neon isn't nearly as complicated as a new vehicle, and it went well over 100K before needing any kind of serious work, it has over 150K now and the only major repair was a head gasket that I did myself in an afternoon. all those vacuum lines were THE .GOVS FAULT (they could fuck up any damned thing, if they start regulating blow jobs we're all fucked and not in the good way). you won't find that shit under the hood on earlier cars. and yes, i've played with those too. spent half a day in recent memory tracking down a dead miss in #8 on a 427 chevrolet c70 only to find out that it was a fucking vacuum line that had fallen off of the bottom of the air cleaner assembly
still better than an electric sensor that does the same job |
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And ya know... Quoted:
Give me a junkyard pre-computer car and i can get it back on the road with MY limited knowledge, not the case currently That's probably exactly what they DON'T want.
"How can we fuck this shit up so bad so's only we can fix it?" The bureaucrat's idea of a perfect vehicle: 1. Gets better fuel economy and produces less emissions than the vehicle it replaced 2. Is easily recyclable 3. Lasts just long enough to entice its owner into buying a newer, even more fuel-efficient vehicle (thereby stimulating the economy and keeping the auto unions happy) |
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Quoted: luckily i have keith_j for diesel help though http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/texrdnec/3129ad4e.jpg http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s482/texrdnec/th_3990a6aa.jpg Shit, I'm getting love handles ! |
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New cars last longer than ever. The fleet is the oldest that it has ever been. This, electronics are not that bad at all. I think they could be a little more simplified but overall it's not to bad. My only gripe with modern cars is they don't give you shit for space around the engine to actually fix the damn thing. I look at all the 90's honda's on the road with over 250k miles on them still ticking. I don't see many cars from the 70's and 80's these day's that can claim the same. Oh btw they're still getting 30+MPG depending on the driver. |
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You ain't seen bad but it's coming.
The U.S. Court of Appeals has now dismissed the suit brought against the EPA marking a significant win for the Obama administration. The Obama administration intends to finalize fuel efficiency standards for 2017 through 2025 along with greenhouse gas limits by this August. These new CAFE standards would require automakers to have fleet wide fuel economy average of 54.5 mpg by 2025.
Many automakers and industry associations oppose the standards because of claims of cost associated with the technology. The National Automobile Dealers Association maintains that the 54.5 mpg proposed fuel standards would add another $5,000 to the sticker price of a new 2025 model vehicle. The proposed standards for 2017 through 2025 model year vehicles were released late last year and were in line with what some major automakers in Washington had already agreed to. Former Illinois state Senator Barry Obama - thanks. Edited to add: CAFE stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy not the CAlifornia Fuel Economy 
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The trend is much older than that.
As you can see, in 2000 the average age of the fleet was 8.0 years. It's now up to 10.6 and continuing to climb. New cars last longer. Additionally, American drivers drove 6,000 miles a year in 1970. They now drive 15,000. Cars are better than ever. |
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Quoted:
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg846/scaled.php?server=846&filename=32168995.jpg&res=landing http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=51067029.jpg&res=landing Need to rip out the CFI and go to a straight carb and ditch all those extra wires. However, environmentally friendly it's not, apparently dumping 10+ tons of GHG a year. (According to the .gov)
The CFI 302 was one of the best pushrod 302's... The greastest "302" of all time is the new Coyote 5.0 in the Mustang...Holy Fuck, what a motor 
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The trend is much older than that. As you can see, in 2000 the average age of the fleet was 8.0 years. It's now up to 10.6 and continuing to climb. New cars last longer. Additionally, American drivers drove 6,000 miles a year in 1970. They now drive 15,000. Cars are better than ever. No... Lets go back to: Changing plugs every 10-15K miles.... Changing the cap and rotor.... Antifreeze once a year... Oil every 3,000... Changing points... Adjusting the timing.... Adjusting the carb and choke... Dumping a can of gumout through the carb every oil change... Adjusting the valves... Adding distilled water to the battery... Hell, lets go back to bias ply tires... Best of all, uncle Leroy can fix it in jiffy with one of Aunt Leona's hair pins.. |
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Modern crumple zones and drivetrain design are great. What would be awesome would be more room under the hood to get man sized hands in there, and the ability to buy them without some of the accessory systems. We don't need every freaking car to come with electric windows and heated leather seats. How about current econobox engine technology but in a sub 2k lb car? |
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Ive got some '80s vehicles that are a bitch to keep simple things like turning signals reliably working due to age and corrosion New save the planet vehicles have thousands of wires and sensors simply to go down the road How is it environmentally friendly when these complicated hunks of shit can't go down the road anymore and end up in junkyards unlike the old school shit that i can spend a little time on and make them 100% again? Give me a junkyard pre-computer car and i can get it back on the road with MY limited knowledge, not the case currently ETA: doesnt that cancel out all the emissions horseshit? Probably so. Interestingly, tyres can be one of there most important factors in Eco friendliness, mainly type pressure and tracking can be a big help but also design can cut fuel consumption quite considerably, which at over $10 (equivalent) a gallon (what we pay in the UK) amounts to quite a saving.. I use premium branded Tyres from Michelin and they give me an extra 10mpg on a long journey over other tyres (provided the pressures are maintained and the tracking is right) |
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The trend is much older than that. As you can see, in 2000 the average age of the fleet was 8.0 years. It's now up to 10.6 and continuing to climb. New cars last longer. Additionally, American drivers drove 6,000 miles a year in 1970. They now drive 15,000. Cars are better than ever. They don't last any longer. You forgot, the price of new vehicles vehicles has gone up 20% roughly over the last 6 years. What my dad bought his 5.9 Ram 2500 Megacab Laramie (2WD) for 6 years ago, you will be lucky to get a 2WD, 4 door, 5.7 (gas) Ram 1500 Laramie for today (I know because my grandfather just bought one to replace his 03 Lone Star Edition). Due to the price increase, it's no longer economical to keep a vehicle for 4 years and get a new one. Look at used prices. A 6 year old 1/2 ton pickup with 100,000 (usually less) miles on it ran between $9000 and $5000 5 years ago. You could pick up a used diesel with 100,000 miles on it for $7,000-$12,000 that was 7-8 years old. Today, a 6 year old half ton with over 100,000 miles will set you back $15,000 or more. A 7 or 8 year old diesel will set you back anywhere from $14,000-$22,000 with anything between 80,000 to 200,000 miles. Not to mention, a friend of mine has a 98 Ram 3500…complete maintenance records for all 1.36 million miles on the truck. With the new emissions on the trucks, your lucky get 200,000 (emissions equipment is not kind on any engine) miles out of them… No too long ago, I looked at a 97 Ram 2500 Ext Cab 4x4. 12 valve Cummins (stock form can easily hit 20mpg, properly tuned can hit upwards of 27), NV4500 5 speed. Truck had 268,000 miles on it. Ran good, someone put a ignition bypass in it and plumbed the kill valve in backwards (instead of pull out to kill it was push in, problem was you'd always push it in with your knee on accident). Engine had no leaks and good compressions (you could drop the clutch in second an it would just sit there and idle forward), no one had ever put the 366 spring in it (it was still governed to 2800 rpm and not 3200 like what all of the 24 valves and common rails are). Tranny still had 5th gear, synchros were a little worn but would float just fine. Seats needed to be replaced (badly) and the dash had a big hole in it (common problem for that body but a $1000 piece of plastic none the less). The asking price, $9,000, a price that no stock 12 valve is worth. What had happened was the dealer had acquired it as a $9000 trade (their mistake) towards a 20,000 Duramax. They were just trying to get their money back hoping someone who knew nothing would come looking for one. I can also go into the fact, you don't use a PC much more than 8 years without upgrading, why do that with the computer controlled engine? Those see much more heat and vibration as well. Now they don't want you working on your own vehicle. Look at Ford. Standard operating procedure for most of the maintenance on a 2010 and up F150 is to remove the cab from the frame…it is sad that is much more efficient to remove the cab to have easy access to the plug wires and other components (turbos on the 3.5) than trying to get your hands back to them (Ford is notorious for stuffing as much crap as possible inside of as small of an engine compartment as possible). Just to change the plugs on my 02 F150 I had to lay across the top of the engine. I'm 5' 11" and I couldn't reach them from underneath nor standing…I had to get my armpit right over the valve covers… |
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If you look around you'll find that the price of new vehicles isn't rising particularly fast, except for some instability in the last three years that has a lot to do with politics.
Overall, people spend 48-52 months wages on a new car every five years, and have for fifty years. |
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Quoted: If you look around you'll find that the price of new vehicles isn't rising particularly fast, except for some instability in the last three years that has a lot to do with politics. Overall, people spend 48-52 months wages on a new car every five years, and have for fifty years. Five years is 60 months. I'll wager they don't spend 80% of their wages on a new car. They probably have a note that long, at most 1/3rd take home. And that has really changed in the past 4 years. Over that 4 years, the new car fleet has decreased in content, size and power. All in the name of economy. I've bucked the trend. I bought economy transportation in 2006. I just bought something that gets really shitty mileage, alas no Blaupunkt or reclining leather seats  . |
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Quoted: Modern crumple zones and drivetrain design are great. What would be awesome would be more room under the hood to get man sized hands in there, and the ability to buy them without some of the accessory systems. We don't need every freaking car to come with electric windows and heated leather seats. How about current econobox engine technology but in a sub 2k lb car? They just need to remake the early 90s honda and toyota cars. Can't fucking beat those. No fancy shit. Just a motor that runs forever with an occasional 1-200 dollar repair that takes half an hour and a 10 and 12 mm wrench. IMO early 90s was the best for cars. Modern enough that you weren't constantly tuning shit up and the cars last a long time. Old enough that everything isn't all super computer and expensive as shit and requiring an electronics engineering degree to fix. |
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Yeah, older cars from the 80's and such are pretty simple. But extremely low quality.
I had a couple of 80's Chevys that were quite simple, but just one problem after another. A radiator here, waterpump there... mystery electrical problem, dead transmission.. all before 100k. Now I have a 2004 Ford I bought brand new that has 128k on it without a single repair needed to keep it running. Just wear items like brakes. I'll take the new more complicated car that just works over the old car that is a constant chore to keep going. I think over time we will see quite a bit less of these newer cars hitting the junkyard because they last longer. |
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Quoted:I can also go into the fact, you don't use a PC much more than 8 years without upgrading, why do that with the computer controlled engine? Those see much more heat and vibration as well.
Odd comparison. I get a new computer because I need one that is more powerful to do what I want. I've never once bought a new car because I needed one with a more powerful ECM I've never had a computer completely fail on me, ever. Home computers also have waaaaaay more moving parts and more heat sensitive parts than a cars ECM.
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But hey...nobody is perfect
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If you look around you'll find that the price of new vehicles isn't rising particularly fast, except for some instability in the last three years that has a lot to do with politics. Overall, people spend 48-52 months wages on a new car every five years, and have for fifty years. Five years is 60 months. I'll wager they don't spend 80% of their wages on a new car. They probably have a note that long, at most 1/3rd take home. And that has really changed in the past 4 years. Over that 4 years, the new car fleet has decreased in content, size and power. All in the name of economy. I've bucked the trend. I bought economy transportation in 2006. I just bought something that gets really shitty mileage, alas no Blaupunkt or reclining leather seats .
where are the pictures? why do you keep denying me pictures of this thing??!!! i want to see the new truck, post pics! |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you look around you'll find that the price of new vehicles isn't rising particularly fast, except for some instability in the last three years that has a lot to do with politics. Overall, people spend 48-52 months wages on a new car every five years, and have for fifty years. Five years is 60 months. I'll wager they don't spend 80% of their wages on a new car. They probably have a note that long, at most 1/3rd take home. And that has really changed in the past 4 years. Over that 4 years, the new car fleet has decreased in content, size and power. All in the name of economy. I've bucked the trend. I bought economy transportation in 2006. I just bought something that gets really shitty mileage, alas no Blaupunkt or reclining leather seats .where are the pictures? why do you keep denying me pictures of this thing??!!! i want to see the new truck, post pics! I've been so busy restoring it that I have lost my camera. My brother has taken pictures but not yet shared them with me  .I caught a summer cold after the emergency harmonic damper replacement  . Discovered the problem around 1800, got the replacement by 1900 and had it replaced by 2200. |
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If you look around you'll find that the price of new vehicles isn't rising particularly fast, except for some instability in the last three years that has a lot to do with politics. Overall, people spend 48-52 months wages on a new car every five years, and have for fifty years. Five years is 60 months. I'll wager they don't spend 80% of their wages on a new car. They probably have a note that long, at most 1/3rd take home. And that has really changed in the past 4 years. Over that 4 years, the new car fleet has decreased in content, size and power. All in the name of economy. I've bucked the trend. I bought economy transportation in 2006. I just bought something that gets really shitty mileage, alas no Blaupunkt or reclining leather seats .
where are the pictures? why do you keep denying me pictures of this thing??!!! i want to see the new truck, post pics! I've been so busy restoring it that I have lost my camera. My brother has taken pictures but not yet shared them with me .
I caught a summer cold after the emergency harmonic damper replacement . Discovered the problem around 1800, got the replacement by 1900 and had it replaced by 2200.
what happened, rubber ring thing come apart? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you look around you'll find that the price of new vehicles isn't rising particularly fast, except for some instability in the last three years that has a lot to do with politics. Overall, people spend 48-52 months wages on a new car every five years, and have for fifty years. Five years is 60 months. I'll wager they don't spend 80% of their wages on a new car. They probably have a note that long, at most 1/3rd take home. And that has really changed in the past 4 years. Over that 4 years, the new car fleet has decreased in content, size and power. All in the name of economy. I've bucked the trend. I bought economy transportation in 2006. I just bought something that gets really shitty mileage, alas no Blaupunkt or reclining leather seats .where are the pictures? why do you keep denying me pictures of this thing??!!! i want to see the new truck, post pics! I've been so busy restoring it that I have lost my camera. My brother has taken pictures but not yet shared them with me .I caught a summer cold after the emergency harmonic damper replacement . Discovered the problem around 1800, got the replacement by 1900 and had it replaced by 2200. what happened, rubber ring thing come apart? Yes, started cracking. Diesels are hard on harmonic dampers. If the outer ring comes off, the crank will break. $67 from O'Reilly and not a Chinese part. Australia, not China. |
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Quoted:I can also go into the fact, you don't use a PC much more than 8 years without upgrading, why do that with the computer controlled engine? Those see much more heat and vibration as well.
Odd comparison. I get a new computer because I need one that is more powerful to do what I want. I've never once bought a new car because I needed one with a more powerful ECM I've never had a computer completely fail on me, ever. Home computers also have waaaaaay more moving parts and more heat sensitive parts than a cars ECM.ECM's deal with excess heat (up to 300º depending on placement) as well as vibrations…the two biggest killers of electronics. Suzuki Samurai (carbureted engine), 7.3L Powerstroke, 5.9L Common Rail Cummins are good examples. Samurai, can't really find the ECM and is much easier to remove the source to all of your problems…the Hitachi carb and replace it with a Weber or go a little more extreme and drop in a later model EFI engine or most extreme, 1.3L Jetta TDI. 7.3, board often cracks (even refurbed ECM's have this issue) and it causes the glow plugs not to fire (if you have an engine block heater or live in a warm climate your fine though)…hard problem to solve cheaply, in fact I've been working on this for a friend's 7.3 and the cheapest solution I can find (according to several diesel mechanic quotes) is to destroke it. Some 5.9 Common Rail guys have had ECM issues but find an easy solution, 6.7 ECM is a plug and play upgrade. ECM problems are out there. Congrats on your 04…my 02 puked the 2nd slave at 80K, clutch at 94K, lower intake manifold at 95K ($1005 part, my boss and his son at least made it to 118K before theirs cracked), second set of U-joints at 104K, 2 MAF's around 105, ran fairly well until 136K (which was less than a year later) before trashing another slave (that's $1000 each time that happened). At that, I drove it another 1.5 months and sold it with 140K on it. Most of my friends have had just about the same luck with their 97-11 F-series trucks I'm affraid…I miss that truck, but only the GM tow mirrors, Lock Right locker I put in it, and 5 speed transmission (cause I'm suffering from automaticssuckballsitis) which oddly enough has gone the way of the doh-doh in half ton pickups and is nearly extinct in heavy duty pickups. PS, also miss the back bumper and the headache rack but I can easily build those again. |