[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Backup generator (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/19/2012 12:43:03 PM EDT
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We have been having some gnarly weather here lately and I am concerned about a power outage and my crawl space filling with water, which it will do without the sump running. So I am strongly considering getting a backup generator but I have no idea what size to get. Yeah I know, bigger is better, but I have a budget to stick to as well. We have a small house, 1000 sq ft. The main things that I want to be able to keep running are the freezer, fridge, furnace (its gas but it won't kick on without electrcity), and sump. I have enough camp lanterns so we don't need to run the house lights. What size generator should I be shopping for?  |
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I have one of these for the RV hard to beat the bang for the buck
$299 http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/champion-4000-watt-portable-generator-49-state-model/54135 ETA: To figure out just how much you need you will need to figure your load...Amps x Volts = Watts |
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Quoted: Is your sump pump 220 or 110? If it's 220 then you're looking at a 3000 watt generator or more. Take a look at the sump pump and read the amps or how many HP the motor is. That will tell you the minimum size generator you can get away with. Its plugged in to a 110 outlet, its not a very big unit at all, i don't remember the HP. It doesn't use a ton of juice. |
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As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure.
Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? |
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A generator is only part of the plan. First of all, I have the Champion generator others have mentioned and it's awesome for the price. It'll probably run everything you listed, so long as you're careful about staggering start-up loads. Second of all, remember that you'll have to go out in the rain to set up and connect the generator if you want your sump pump to work... and that's only if you happen to be home when power fails. Get the generator, but also make sure that a battery backup or water-powered sump pump is part of your plan too. |
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My swamp cooler on high pulls 7.8 amps with a 1/2 HP motor so that would be 7.8X120 = 936 watts
I cant imagine the average sump pulling much more then that. (Beat by a minute) What you do want to keep an eye on is the starting amperage which can be 1.5 times greater then then running amps if not more. Kicking on the sump, fridge and freezer at the same time would call for a pretty healthy genset however staggering their start would get you by with a much smaller unit. |
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Quoted: As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure. Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? Is it realistic to satisfy my needs for $350? Yeah I know, I'm a tight ass. I don't need the aston martin set up just something reliable that will keep me from being under water. |
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As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure. Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? Is it realistic to satisfy my needs for $350? Yeah I know, I'm a tight ass. I don't need the aston martin set up just something reliable that will keep me from being under water. What water are you on? I'd recommend the water backup/sump long before a cheap crappy $350 generator that you will have to be home for to start. $350 will not get you something reliable enough to actually rely on keeping your crawl dry, no. That is my opinion of course, and I'm sure many crappy gens will start and work as a recreational gen, but again, nothing I would actually depend on. |
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June 21st this will be $319 with free ship http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Camp-Essentials/Generators-Accessories|/pc/104795280/c/104709780/sc/104356980/Champion-3500-Watt-Generator-Weekender-Package/909433.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fcamping-camp-essentials-generators-accessories%2Fchampion%2F_%2FN-1100691%2B1000003046%2FNe-1000003046%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU cheap enough to buy two for a total of 8kw free ship if you pay with Cabelas VISA, use code CLUBVISA if you dont have a visa, $5 ship, use code 62SUMMER   |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure. Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? Is it realistic to satisfy my needs for $350? Yeah I know, I'm a tight ass. I don't need the aston martin set up just something reliable that will keep me from being under water. What water are you on? I'd recommend the water backup/sump long before a cheap crappy $350 generator that you will have to be home for to start. $350 will not get you something reliable enough to actually rely on keeping your crawl dry, no. That is my opinion of course, and I'm sure many crappy gens will start and work as a recreational gen, but again, nothing I would actually depend on. What output and brands/models should I look at? I like quality so if that means more money, lets go down that road. What kind of system should I have? |
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Quoted: Quoted: As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure. Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? Is it realistic to satisfy my needs for $350? Yeah I know, I'm a tight ass. I don't need the aston martin set up just something reliable that will keep me from being under water. Buy the Champion generator linked above for $300, and get a DIY battery backup sump pump from Home Depot (~$250 with battery), and you'll be set. |
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As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure. Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? Is it realistic to satisfy my needs for $350? Yeah I know, I'm a tight ass. I don't need the aston martin set up just something reliable that will keep me from being under water. What water are you on? I'd recommend the water backup/sump long before a cheap crappy $350 generator that you will have to be home for to start. $350 will not get you something reliable enough to actually rely on keeping your crawl dry, no. That is my opinion of course, and I'm sure many crappy gens will start and work as a recreational gen, but again, nothing I would actually depend on. What output and brands/models should I look at? I like quality so if that means more money, lets go down that road. What kind of system should I have? What kind of water are you on? A liberty water sump is by far, your best bet based upon your rather limited original budget. Or do you just want a generator? |
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As an electrical contractor, I love selling generators. BUT if your main concern is just water, look in to a water powered sump if you are on city water with decent pressure. Otherwise, a budget is needed to make recommendations. In e generator world, you really do get what you pay for. Buy a crappy gen, pull it out in 2 years and it won't start. What good does that do? Is it realistic to satisfy my needs for $350? Yeah I know, I'm a tight ass. I don't need the aston martin set up just something reliable that will keep me from being under water. What water are you on? I'd recommend the water backup/sump long before a cheap crappy $350 generator that you will have to be home for to start. $350 will not get you something reliable enough to actually rely on keeping your crawl dry, no. That is my opinion of course, and I'm sure many crappy gens will start and work as a recreational gen, but again, nothing I would actually depend on. What output and brands/models should I look at? I like quality so if that means more money, lets go down that road. What kind of system should I have? Tagged for the $10,000 Generac response...If you want it to be 100% automatic with load switching and auto start its gonna cost a arm and a leg. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What kind of water are you on? A liberty water sump is by far, your best bet based upon your rather limited original budget. Or do you just want a generator? I am on city water so I could run a water powered sump, but that doesn't keep my freezer cold and my furnace running. If we lose power in the winter, it gets cold fast. So I guess to answer your question, I feel like a generator is more of a complete solution. But I admittedly have no idea what I am doing, so I am wide open to suggestions.  |
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What kind of water are you on? A liberty water sump is by far, your best bet based upon your rather limited original budget. Or do you just want a generator? I am on city water so I could run a water powered sump, but that doesn't keep my freezer cold and my furnace running. If we lose power in the winter, it gets cold fast. So I guess to answer your question, I feel like a generator is more of a complete solution. But I admittedly have no idea what I am doing, so I am wide open to suggestions.
Then if you have limited funds to work with, get the water powered sump since it is the most important thing as far as this thread is concerned, and get the cheap champion for other uses. I would not get a manual start/rarely used generator for something like a sump. |
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June 21st this will be $319 with free ship http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Camp-Essentials/Generators-Accessories|/pc/104795280/c/104709780/sc/104356980/Champion-3500-Watt-Generator-Weekender-Package/909433.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fcamping-camp-essentials-generators-accessories%2Fchampion%2F_%2FN-1100691%2B1000003046%2FNe-1000003046%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU cheap enough to buy two for a total of 8kw free ship if you pay with VISA, use code CLUBVISA if you dont have a visa, $5 ship, use code 62SUMMER Says $419? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What kind of water are you on? A liberty water sump is by far, your best bet based upon your rather limited original budget. Or do you just want a generator? I am on city water so I could run a water powered sump, but that doesn't keep my freezer cold and my furnace running. If we lose power in the winter, it gets cold fast. So I guess to answer your question, I feel like a generator is more of a complete solution. But I admittedly have no idea what I am doing, so I am wide open to suggestions. Then if you have limited funds to work with, get the water powered sump since it is the most important thing as far as this thread is concerned, and get the cheap champion for other uses. I would not get a manual start/rarely used generator for something like a sump. Is 3500 big enough to run the freezer, fridge, and furnace? |
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Is 3500 big enough to run the freezer, fridge, and furnace? Do the math.....like I said before you need to know the load.....figure out what all the units draw in amps...add it up and multiply it by 120 to get your watts. ETA: The amps should marked on the data plates of the motors or the appliance, |
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Quoted: Quoted: June 21st this will be $319 with free ship http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Camp-Essentials/Generators-Accessories|/pc/104795280/c/104709780/sc/104356980/Champion-3500-Watt-Generator-Weekender-Package/909433.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fcamping-camp-essentials-generators-accessories%2Fchampion%2F_%2FN-1100691%2B1000003046%2FNe-1000003046%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU cheap enough to buy two for a total of 8kw free ship if you pay with VISA, use code CLUBVISA if you dont have a visa, $5 ship, use code 62SUMMER Says $419? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile come back in two days  |
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Get one or two, of these, and never look back. 
http://flhrider.com/Webfiles/pics/Honda%20gen.JPG How much did that little jewel set you back? |
I got it from, Wise Sales, has been 3 or more years ago, for about $800.00 shipped.
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Two inches of rain in the last 24 hours and my power out for the 5th time this year. I went to Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, TSC and Farm and Home Supply. I've been looking online since the last time my power went out a month before.
Looking at 4400 watt or so portables, Home Depot had one with a Briggs and Stratton engine I think and wheel kit for $349.00 but they were out. Walmart had one UST 4200 watt without wheel kit. $327.00 price on shelf. I get to checkout and they say $499.00. I go back and dump it and then see the store manager. I tell him the price is crazy, that I can buy Chinese generators that size all day for $349.00 with wheels and electric start. Some girl had pulled the shelf price label but I got some kid who helped me load it verify they pulled the price tag. Manager sold it to me for $300.00 and I bought the extended warranty for $35.00 (don't usually buy extended warranties but I bet I will need it). My dad has a 2000 watt one he said I could have that they used to use with their RV but he says it leaks oil. I might have to see if I can fix that one. I think it was a Hitachi? |
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Another Champion Fan-Boy checking in...
If you want to go a tad upscale, the Home Depot website has the electric start Champion 46561 for $430, with free shipping. This model also has a wireless remote - You can start or shut down the generator from inside your house.
Cabella's also has it for $430, but I'm not sure how much they charge for shipping. |
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Can't really comment on what brand or size to buy, but I suggest that any generator you get that you run it frequently.
Don't let it sit until the day you need it. I know of a "high end" generator with electric start that somehow fried itself after only 2 weeks of use. Required a trip to Atlanta for replacement. |
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Quoted: We have been having some gnarly weather here lately and I am concerned about a power outage and my crawl space filling with water, which it will do without the sump running. So I am strongly considering getting a backup generator but I have no idea what size to get. Yeah I know, bigger is better, but I have a budget to stick to as well. We have a small house, 1000 sq ft. The main things that I want to be able to keep running are the freezer, fridge, furnace (its gas but it won't kick on without electrcity), and sump. I have enough camp lanterns so we don't need to run the house lights. What size generator should I be shopping for? You need to find out how many watts it takes to start each of the units you want to plug in. Then find how many watts they draw when running. Add all the running wattages plus the highest 2 starting wattages and you'll have a ballpark minimum for a genset size. But the next higher output genset than you think you'll need. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  You may also want to investigate setting up your generator to run on both gasoline and natural gas. (Being that you have natural gas for your water heater). Running it on NG only requires periodic oil changes, while refilling gas tanks is a pain in the butt at 3 AM. ETA: Whatever avenue you decide on....remember to start and run your generator at least once a month or run it entirely out of gas so that varnish doesn't gum up your carborator. Ask me how I know.
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I have dealt with the same issues. You need more than one solution to this problem. A good quality generator and transfer switch is great but what if you aren't home when the power fails? Here is that last piece of the puzzle. It'll add peace of mind. http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/Zoeller-507-Sump-Pump/p3756.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=product+portals&gclid=CPah4PDd27ACFQ8KKgodmDli1Q I added a couple additional batteries. In theory, I should be able to get home from anywhere within 1000 miles before the batteries die. |
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My Honda EU2000 is perfect for me. It runs a large refrigerator with ease, and it sips gas. My only other power needs would be to run minor appliances, a lamp or two, and charge batteries/laptop/cellphone, and it can operate my small air compressor and power tools. Since I am in SoCal, the need to run heat/AC during a power outage is not necessary 99.9% of the time due to our climate, nor do I have a sump or well pump to run. |
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My cousin in an electrician and he is going to hook up my panel to accept a
30 Amp breaker with a wired 30 Amp outlet for a 7000 surge watt generator. Just flip the main off and the 30 Amp breaker on and back feed the panel. You can run quite a bit, as long as you don't go too crazy. Worst thing to happen is you blow the breaker, turn some stuff off and reset it. |
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Yeah I know, bigger is better Not necessarily. Big generators tend to consume more fuel than small generators, even when powering the same size load. Why? Because the fuel efficiency of a generator gets much worse when it's only powering a small percentage of its rated load. If you're using an 8 KW generator to only power a 200 watt load, it will consume MUCH more fuel than a 1 KW generator would. So, unless you have an unlimited amount of fuel available, it's wise to pick the smallest generator that will comfortably power your largest load (or combination of anticipated simultaneous loads). Naturally, there are other advantages to this strategy: Small generators tend to be quieter, easier to carry, and less expensive. |
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So we got so much rain that there was over a foot of water on my road and my sump has been running non stop. Thank be to God that we only had two very brief power outages. But it is still raining and there is water over most of the roads in our area. I will try to get some pictures, some of the washouts are truly amazing. 
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One thing to think about when sizing your genset is that you don't have to run all of your backup circuits at once. A typical fridge will keep food perfectly cold running a few hours per day-assuming you don't open the door every five minutes.
I've come full circle with backup power. I started with a 2500 watt Honda, upgraded to a 5000 watt Honda, and now I have a pair of super quiet eu2000s like the one pictured above. It does help that my entire home runs on LNG, so I don't have any 220v loads to worry about. During the last extended power outages/ice storms I was able to conserve fuel by running the genset only a few hours per day to power needed loads and charge the battery bank 
If a sump pump is considered mission critical in your home, having a spare or two is important as well. Both of my backup pumps are gas powered: a regular Honda WX-10 for water, and a high pressure Wick for fire suppression. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: <snip> If a sump pump is considered mission critical in your home, having a spare or two is important as well. Both of my backup pumps are gas powered: a regular Honda WX-10 for water, and a high pressure Wick for fire suppression. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile It sure is, the dingbat that prepped the site before the home was built (we are not thr original builder/owners) decided that it would be a good idea to just take a big blade and push the site clean before building. Not thinking that he should maybe slope the lot or at least build it back up so that we wouldn't end up being the lowest area around. But its no big deal right? I mean the whole area is clay and we have had the most rainfall this summer in decades.  So I am not only pumping the water from my lot, but all of my neighbors' runoff as well.I am continually fighting to fix the stuff the builder's half assed. |
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tell me more about these water driven sump pumps.
I have a rental property with a finished basement and would love the ease of mind. Heaven forbid the power was lost during a storm, and the tennant wasn't there or couldn't notify me... Are they hard to install? I'm on city water and could easily run pecs line if needed. I have a Honda 10000 watter with a 40 ft extension cord and a back feed panel in the new house. It's on wheels in the walkout basement. The previous owner made a concrete sarcoffogus for it to be wheeled into (that is outside) that only has access from the basement. It's a pretty sweet setup. |
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OP, do you have a Menards near you? If you do, check these out.
Honeywell generator I bought one and it seems well built. I've never had to use it in an emergency yet though. 5500 watts for $399.00 is a good deal though. |
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Quoted: OP, do you have a Menards near you? If you do, check these out. Honeywell generator I bought one and it seems well built. I've never had to use it in an emergency yet though. 5500 watts for $399.00 is a good deal though. That might be the one. I'm sure that they are not made by Honeywell but its worth looking at. How much have you used yours? How loud is it? Is the carriage well built? What brand of motor is on it? |
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OP, do you have a Menards near you? If you do, check these out. Honeywell generator I bought one and it seems well built. I've never had to use it in an emergency yet though. 5500 watts for $399.00 is a good deal though. That might be the one. I'm sure that they are not made by Honeywell but its worth looking at. How much have you used yours? How loud is it? Is the carriage well built? What brand of motor is on it? I've only used mine enough to make sure it functions. It didn't seem any louder than any of the other portable generators I've been around. The carriage frame seems pretty stout but I didn't install the wheels or handle. The motor is a Honeywell brand, that's all I could find on it. |
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I have enough camp lanterns so we don't need to run the house lights.
Aside from the generator question, if you are talking Coleman lantern type lanterns, do NOT use them inside your house. The fumes from these things in an enclosed area will kill you. They will also set off your smoke detectors. |
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<snip> If a sump pump is considered mission critical in your home, having a spare or two is important as well. Both of my backup pumps are gas powered: a regular Honda WX-10 for water, and a high pressure Wick for fire suppression. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile It sure is, the dingbat that prepped the site before the home was built (we are not thr original builder/owners) decided that it would be a good idea to just take a big blade and push the site clean before building. Not thinking that he should maybe slope the lot or at least build it back up so that we wouldn't end up being the lowest area around. But its no big deal right? I mean the whole area is clay and we have had the most rainfall this summer in decades. So I am not only pumping the water from my lot, but all of my neighbors' runoff as well.
I am continually fighting to fix the stuff the builder's half assed. Man, that sucks 
Since your sump pump is absolutely essential a spare or two is good insurance-as well as whatever fittings, valves etc it needs to be plug and play. Breaking your only plastic QD coupler when water is coming in is never a good thing. My small backup pump looks like this: 
And my fire pump looks like this: 
Different purposes than yours of course, but backups just the same. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I have enough camp lanterns so we don't need to run the house lights. Aside from the generator question, if you are talking Coleman lantern type lanterns, do NOT use them inside your house. The fumes from these things in an enclosed area will kill you. They will also set off your smoke detectors. How are they any different than the propane lights that we use in the deer shack? I'm not dead yet. |