[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LSAT professionals get in here (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/8/2012 4:48:30 PM EDT
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So I have recently started the application process to law school, currently (as of the past week or so) I have spent most of my time reading books on prepping, strategies, and tips. I have also been doing alot of sample questions (mostly on aguments so far). I plan on working thru more arguments, as well as working on logic game sample questions. I will start taking pratices tests as well (probably in the next two weeks) in order to get an idea of how to pace myself, and just the mental strain of taking a full test in the alotted time frame.
I am in a unique situation where I work at a University that provides tuition remission for employees. As long as I get acccepted the University will pay for 72 of the 91 credit hours I need to graduate. This means I'm not trying to knock out a 180, im just trying to get in. For this particular university that means scoring somewhere around 150-154 range. I plan on taking my first attempt at the LSAT in June which gives me 2 months of study time, any tips or pointers, or recommended study material from you guys that have alread had experience with the LSAT would be appreciated. |
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1st, RUN, don't walk away from law school. It sucks and there are no jobs. 2nd, Kaplan sucks. At least it did for me. My score actually went down. My wife used the PowerScore books and did well. yea I read some reviews on Kaplan, they went both ways, I have been working thru a few of The Princeton Review books so far. |
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Powerscore is the best. I lost like 6 points just because of the stupid logic games. Went from a mid 160s practice avg to high 150s due to games. Hence, I didn't got to law school.  good to know, yea like I said since I work there as long as I get in im roughly getting a 150K education for 50K 
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1st, RUN, don't walk away from law school. It sucks and there are no jobs. 2nd, Kaplan sucks. At least it did for me. My score actually went down. My wife used the PowerScore books and did well. what type of law to you and your wife practice My wife practices traffic/criminal defense and family law. I a 4th year night student and work at an employment & whistleblower firm. At least around the DC area, the only jobs are for IP. |
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Logic games sucked for me. The rest was fairly easy. Practice the logic games over and over and over and over again. I think I only missed like 1 or 2 logic games. I got drilled by the rest, didn't crack 160. Graduated magna cum laude. Fuck the LSAT. How difficult was it to find employment? |
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Logic games sucked for me. The rest was fairly easy. Practice the logic games over and over and over and over again. I think I only missed like 1 or 2 logic games. I got drilled by the rest, didn't crack 160. Graduated magna cum laude. Fuck the LSAT. How difficult was it to find employment? Hard. I got lucky and found a decent job. Literally very, very lucky. I'm making about half of what I would have made if I graduated in 2005 instead of 2010, though. |
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Logic games sucked for me. The rest was fairly easy. Practice the logic games over and over and over and over again. I think I only missed like 1 or 2 logic games. I got drilled by the rest, didn't crack 160. Graduated magna cum laude. Fuck the LSAT. How difficult was it to find employment? Hard. I got lucky and found a decent job. Literally very, very lucky. I'm making about half of what I would have made if I graduated in 2005 instead of 2010, though. Thanks for the information! |
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Quoted: God ain't that the truth. I'm happy to be employed though. And I lucked into an in house position. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Logic games sucked for me. The rest was fairly easy. Practice the logic games over and over and over and over again. I think I only missed like 1 or 2 logic games. I got drilled by the rest, didn't crack 160. Graduated magna cum laude. Fuck the LSAT. How difficult was it to find employment? Hard. I got lucky and found a decent job. Literally very, very lucky. I'm making about half of what I would have made if I graduated in 2005 instead of 2010, though. Besides where you get in to law school, the most notable thing the LSAT also effects is the scholarships schools will throw at you. It helped me tremendously and because of that I didn't have to take on debt. |
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God ain't that the truth. I'm happy to be employed though. And I lucked into an in house position.
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Logic games sucked for me. The rest was fairly easy. Practice the logic games over and over and over and over again. I think I only missed like 1 or 2 logic games. I got drilled by the rest, didn't crack 160. Graduated magna cum laude. Fuck the LSAT. How difficult was it to find employment? Hard. I got lucky and found a decent job. Literally very, very lucky. I'm making about half of what I would have made if I graduated in 2005 instead of 2010, though. Besides where you get in to law school, the most notable thing the LSAT also effects is the scholarships schools will throw at you. It helped me tremendously and because of that I didn't have to take on debt. I'll have to take night classes since I am an employee of the University I want to attend, but then again they will be footin the bill for 72 of the 91 credit hours I need to graduate |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: God ain't that the truth. I'm happy to be employed though. And I lucked into an in house position. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Logic games sucked for me. The rest was fairly easy. Practice the logic games over and over and over and over again. I think I only missed like 1 or 2 logic games. I got drilled by the rest, didn't crack 160. Graduated magna cum laude. Fuck the LSAT. How difficult was it to find employment? Hard. I got lucky and found a decent job. Literally very, very lucky. I'm making about half of what I would have made if I graduated in 2005 instead of 2010, though. Besides where you get in to law school, the most notable thing the LSAT also effects is the scholarships schools will throw at you. It helped me tremendously and because of that I didn't have to take on debt. I'll have to take night classes since I am an employee of the University I want to attend, but then again they will be footin the bill for 72 of the 91 credit hours I need to graduate Ah, that's a pretty sweet deal then. |
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Quoted: Run like hell. Your chances of scoring the high-paying, big law job you think you want are low, unless you have an engineering or science background. Unless you are going on GI Bill, the debt will crush you for at least a three decades. FIFY. I mostly enjoy what I do, but I am the exception in this profession. |
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He man, I wanted to go to law school as well but unless your family has a practice or you are guaranteed a nice job in a firm, don't. It's Hell out there for lawyers right now. I know, my family has a few. I have a feeling you could say this about most professtions |
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He man, I wanted to go to law school as well but unless your family has a practice or you are guaranteed a nice job in a firm, don't. It's Hell out there for lawyers right now. I know, my family has a few. I have a feeling you could say this about most professtions To a point. But most professions don't require additional schooling and student debt that must be paid off. If you are feeling froggy, jump. I encourage ya to do it but I've heard dozens and dozens of stories from disappointed graduates. |
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1st, RUN, don't walk away from law school. It sucks and there are no jobs. 2nd, Kaplan sucks. At least it did for me. My score actually went down. My wife used the PowerScore books and did well. yea I read some reviews on Kaplan, they went both ways, I have been working thru a few of The Princeton Review books so far. did kaplan for Mcat and Dat and scored 91st and 99th precentile respectively so I think they are great, but you have to put the time in and it is costly |
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I did PowerScore. If you plan on shelling out the coin for a prep program make sure the questions they use are real LSAT questions and not some made up BS. If you don't plan on doing a program, at a minimum I would recommend picking up the PowerScore bibles.
Luckily you're not shooting for the moon with a score of 150 - 154. It's worth noting though that the typical LSAT takers' average practice score will drop by a few points on the actual test day. As far as practice goes...study obviously, take all practice tests under timed conditions and when reviewing you answers make sure you understand why you got something wrong not just that you got it wrong. |
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1) Don't go to law school unless you come from a family of lawyers or know lots of lawyers willing to hire you. The market sucks. If I had chosen to go to law school, I'd be in a fairly good position to get a job due to my dad's connections and my cousin's connections. Without connections good luck. 2) Definitely try to prepare. My dad walked in with no preparation and got a 172. I walked in with no preparation and bombed it (50th percentile). And I generally have impeccable multiple choice test taking skills. I can't offer advice on how to prepare since I didn't. 3) If you have any other medium paying option that doesn't involve law school, take it. The market is flooded. ETA: If you are a cigarette smoker like I am, buy a nicotine patch. By the third section (for me logic games) I had totally lost my concentration. |
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Quoted: Don't waste your time prepping for it, just go in and take it cold. It's an aptitude test, for chriminy's sake. I'm a pretty good test-taker & I'm glad I took the prep course. Finding out how to approach some of the questions, such as the lion is in a cage across from the zebra and two down from the monkey...where is the fish?, was of great help. |
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Prepping for it is worthwhile and will result in a higher LSAT score. I have always tested well, so I really didn't put a great deal of effort into it at first. I took a sample LSAT test from somewhere just to decide for myself if it would be worthwhile and got a 153. I wanted to do much better than that, so I went to Barnes & Noble and grabbed a prep book that discussed strategies for the test and had several sample tests composed of actual LSAT questions. On my practice tests I ranged from 154-173. On the actual test I did 163.
I was already a very capable and fast reader, so that helped me a great deal on the test since two of the major sections are all about reading and the speed and comprehension influence the outcome on the remaining sections. So for me, the logic games area was the part where I saw the most improvement through preparation. Initially, I was very weak there; but it ended up being one of my stronger sections on the actual test. As far as law school itself, you have to realize that around 50% of all law schools exist because they are massive profit centers for the universities; not because there is an urgent need for lawyers. In fact, it is just the opposite, even before the economy crashed, law schools were graduating more new lawyers every year than there were legal jobs to be filled - and when the economy crashed, a lot of those jobs went away; but the law schools are still there churning out students by the thousands. You must be very, very, very careful about taking on any debt in order to go to law school. If you have to take out a $120k loan to attend, chances are probably upwards of 90% that you are not going to come out on top of that situation. Even as little as $30k can be tough to pay back in this environment. I foolishly quit a good solid career to go to law school abd it was three years before I made more money than I was already making in the previous job. And even with GI Bill and working during law school, I still managed to rack up a lot more debt than I would like. Be very, very cautious about accepting employment figures and "average salaries" from law schools, they will skew those statistics every way they can - and at the top tier law schools, you have to remember that the average salary isn't $100k because the school is so damn good, it is $100k because Biff and Muffy sent their son Biff Jr. to law school and Biff Jr. already has a six-figure job at Biff Sr.'s company waiting for him when he graduates. If your name isn't Biff Jr., don't expect the same deal will apply to you. Finally, if you do go through with it anyway, start networking like your life depended on it and keep doing that. Also, start thinking about what specific type of legal specialization/job you want to have and start planning on that now. My own experience is that employers react positively to someone who looks like they know what they want and where they are going and react negatively to someone who doesn't seem to have thought these things through. We had several "non-traditional" guys in my class who did not have a good network (already 10 laywers in the family, family owned their own multi-million firm, etc.). The one thing all the ones successful in scoring a job had in common is that they knew what area of law they wanted to work in and built the resume (classes, internships working for free at the appropriate places) to get that job. Be professional, be courteous at all times. The people you go to law school with may be the reason you do (or don't) get a job some day. |
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1st, RUN, don't walk away from law school. It sucks and there are no jobs. 2nd, Kaplan sucks. At least it did for me. My score actually went down. My wife used the PowerScore books and did well. this. I would not do it again. What a waste. Law school, the bar, everything. Be a doctor or engineer. |
| I think I did the Princeton Review book with the testing software. It was over 14 years ago so I don't recall all the details. I did very well but my scores didn't go up dramatically. From about 158 cold to 166 by the time I took the test. The practice testing probably helps the most with the games sections so you can learn some of the logic tricks they use. It also helps you get the pace to the point where you are not wasting time on questions you don't know. Spend time on questions you will get right and guess on the remaining few that have stumped you. I know a former co-worker who is a Harvard law grad who teaches LSAT prep on the side in the DC area, but that probably won't help you. |
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Quoted: Do you have connections in the legal profession? I wouldn't even consider law school without them. Seriously, starting pay for a low end attorney is less than that of a person with an undergrad degree in engineering or nursing. Thanks to everyone that put their 2 cent in. I valued all your responses, even the ones telling me to run for the hills  |
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there are attorneys taking jobs for 40k. yep, that low. I have some friends from law school (still) making around 50k.
i've been lucky. graduated in the middle of my class. had a job right out of law school, and have been recruited heavily by some firms out here. but, that's after i established a track record. i got really lucky the first job I landed, and that gave me a metric shit ton of experience litigating. can't recommend any study guides, as I took the lsat without any prep. |
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Do you have connections in the legal profession? I wouldn't even consider law school without them. Seriously, starting pay for a low end attorney is less than that of a person with an undergrad degree in engineering or nursing.
Thanks to everyone that put their 2 cent in. I valued all your responses, even the ones telling me to run for the hills know a few that are friends of the family, as far as mommy or daddy setting me up with a high dollar job when i get done, that not my situation, been getting to know the faculty at the law school, im planning on attending since I work there and have the opportunity to see them on a day to day basis |
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1. The average starting salary is not enough to overcome the average debt obligations per month. 2. If you have to remain a full time employee, passing law school in 3-4 years is going to be a heavy load. 3. Full time job means no good internships means pretty weak resume in a sea of resumes. 4. Don't. Law school will suck your soul, your wallet, ruin your relationships and not provide you the economic advantage it did even just 5 years ago.
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Quoted: My wife practices traffic/criminal defense and family law. I a 4th year night student and work at an employment & whistleblower firm. At least around the DC area, the only jobs are for IP. Don't hold your breath there either. Softball IP is competitive and is not easy to break into if you're not at a good firm out of a great school with outstanding grades. Patent law is becoming hyper-specialized due to an increased number of practitioners as we roll past the 70,000 registration number. If you didn't get high marks in electrical/computer engineering (a lot of patent firms will care about your undegrad transcript more than your law school) or you don't have a masters, stick with engineering. I think law school makes sense for OP given how much will be paid by the institution. Shouldn't come out with more than, say, $25-30k of student loans, hopefully tops. Probably worth the gamble. You'll be paying maybe $300 a month for that, so even if you get stuck in a closet doing hourly contract work, you should survive. However, if you're paying three times that to go to a school that doesn't exactly fall in well with the pedigreed gentry of the legal practice, you're most likely fucking yourself. Although I see the NALP forms now allow one to self-identify as a fudgepacker, so you can always cry discrimination when AmLaw 100 firms won't hire you, if all else fails. ETA: Sorry this was an ask-about-the-LSAT thread. I had no idea what the LSAT was. Sat down and ran through most of a Princeton Review book. I did well (by my measure, at the time, given what I perceived to be my goals) but in retrospect would have shot for the high 160s/low 170s if I'd been serious about it. You never know if you'll want to transfer or something. The advice I'd give, having underprepared myself, is go all out and consider it water under the bridge if you never end up needing that 168. |
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OP:
I had no family or special connections, took the LSAT cold, got accepted to law school, took 4 years to finish, and hung out my shingle 13 months after graduation. That was about 15 years ago, and I have a continuous stream of work, and I have been covered up for several years now. Be careful listening to people spouting conventional wisdom. It's about you and your determination. In the end, you really become a lawyer when there are people whose first instinct is to COME TO YOU for the legal service needs. |