[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Reinstate the draft! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/4/2012 6:43:51 PM EDT
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Professor in an, "History of the Modern Middle East" community college class dropped this gem on us: If we want to prevent war we should reinstate the draft since politicians will be to afraid to send their sons to war.
How the fuck are these people allowed to teach? Any history teacher should especially know that conscript armies and drafts do not PREVENT WAR. Foreign policy prevents wars. |
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Professor in an, "History of the Modern Middle East" community college class dropped this gem on us: If we want to prevent war we should reinstate the draft since politicians will be to afraid to send their sons to war. How the fuck are these people allowed to teach? Any history teacher should especially know that conscript armies and drafts do not PREVENT WAR. Foreign policy prevents wars. Ask him how much the buy out is 
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I should also say that this professor is a middle aged woman with chronic medical issues. How noble of her to advocate the compulsory sacrifice of others. I can see the rationale behind a draft, but this post is 100% dead on. Of course, this professor wants a draft for the same reason that Ron Paul wants bring back all the troops...short-sighted belief that American presence creates, and doesn't stop, wars from occurring. |
| To add more awesomeness: She has an assistant/guest teacher who claims to be SF from Vietnam and who has worked, or has friends who work, with the CIA. If anyone knows where I can find a database or who wants to look up this guys name sends me an message and I will give you his name to check. For even more hilarity I will confront him if he isn't and post his response. |
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Am I the only person wondering why History of the Modern Middle East is a course? On second thought maybe some good things came out of the middle east during that era. Oil comes out of that place, where nearly everyone who lives there has a centuries long and incorrect public memory. If there is a course that should be bumping "Dancing with the Stars" on National TV, its a course taught to the American people on Modern Middle East history, whose content should be vetted by Bernard Lewis. It would explain why there is a good chance that Americans will be heating their homes with candles because a bunch of people disagree who should have been the leader of an organization 1200 years ago, that NO LONGER EXISTS, and hasn't existed in nearly a century. |
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After living in Korea, and experiencing their mandatory 2y of service. I can't see a problem with it. Personally, I'd get rid of welfare and if you apply, you get a plane ticket to the nearest basic training camp. I think you missed the memo, those folks are all now "disabled." Meanwhile, we have military members serving with prosthetic limbs. |
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Am I the only person wondering why History of the Modern Middle East is a course? On second thought maybe some good things came out of the middle east during that era. Many US and foreign companies want/need liaisons to middle eastern countries or want in house expertise on the middle eastern culture and customs. On the US Gov side of it...say you happen to know a middle eastern language and have travel/living/ working experience in the ME, then you would be competitive for state department and other foreign service jobs. Like it or not...lack of even basic knowledge of the ME is what has created 90% of the problems we are dealing with in that region, and therefore we need to be encouraging our young people to learn what they can about it. |
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Professor in an, "History of the Modern Middle East" community college class dropped this gem on us: If we want to prevent war we should reinstate the draft since politicians will be to afraid to send their sons to war. How the fuck are these people allowed to teach? Any history teacher should especially know that conscript armies and drafts do not PREVENT WAR. Foreign policy prevents wars. Why do we always send the poor? Why don't presidents fight the war? |
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Professor in an, "History of the Modern Middle East" community college class dropped this gem on us: If we want to prevent war we should reinstate the draft since politicians will be to afraid to send their sons to war. How the fuck are these people allowed to teach? Any history teacher should especially know that conscript armies and drafts do not PREVENT WAR. Foreign policy prevents wars. Also I don't want to be the guy getting on an airplane that a conscript who doesn't want to be there worked on. Does your idiot professor? I'm not going to trust my life to someone that absolutely does not want to be here. |
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Also I don't want to be the guy getting on an airplane that a conscript who doesn't want to be there worked on. Does your idiot professor? I'm not going to trust my life to someone that absolutely does not want to be here. Yet we were able to make it work for several decades. I am not saying conscription should be done, but it has been made to work in the US, it started to being less viable when we started to become lacks on the discipline though. |
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Also I don't want to be the guy getting on an airplane that a conscript who doesn't want to be there worked on. Does your idiot professor? I'm not going to trust my life to someone that absolutely does not want to be here. Yet we were able to make it work for several decades. I am not saying conscription should be done, but it has been made to work in the US, it started to being less viable when we started to become lacks on the discipline though. That's one of many problems with a draft. We are currently having a great time getting rid of all the douchebags we've collected over the last ten years. When you open the flood gates and take anybody with a pulse you end up with people who have no buisness being in the Military. Bringing back a draft would give us back all these undesirables who don't want to be here and can't meet the standard. That translates into more good people getting killed. Now, if you give the NCO corps back some teeth, maybe we could make it work. But in the current climate of " let's all hug and talk about our emotions" it would never work. |
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Also I don't want to be the guy getting on an airplane that a conscript who doesn't want to be there worked on. Does your idiot professor? I'm not going to trust my life to someone that absolutely does not want to be here. Yet we were able to make it work for several decades. I am not saying conscription should be done, but it has been made to work in the US, it started to being less viable when we started to become lacks on the discipline though. Made it work, but it didn't work well, morale suffered horribly, professionalism wasn't even mentioned, and the work conscripts do is unskilled shit. Conscripts were working avionics, crew chief, etc which, if I really wanted to, would be absurdly easy to bring an aircraft packed with people crashing down? People who don't give a crap about the people they're sending into the sky or walking into a gunfight with? Fuck that shit. There's a reason the U.S. military enjoys relatively high morale and professionalism. I may not want to be in the shithole I'm deployed to right now, but I want to be part of this military. I owe it to the people I work alongside, and I have to face facts: the military's been *REALLY* good to me. If I get it wrong one time, one tiny mistake, and a lot of people die. Those people are my fellow Americans, and probably friends. I will do everything imaginable to ensure that does not come to pass. A consript feels exactly opposite to how I do. While you might get some people converted to believe, you'll get others that hate it that much more. I don't want the guy next to me, that I wager my life on to be one of those 99% pieces of shit who don't even have the decency to believe in the country, and hate us that had the cajones to voluntarily put our lives on the line. |
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Professor in an, "History of the Modern Middle East" community college class dropped this gem on us: If we want to prevent war we should reinstate the draft since politicians will be to afraid to send their sons to war. How the fuck are these people allowed to teach? Any history teacher should especially know that conscript armies and drafts do not PREVENT WAR. Foreign policy prevents wars. Well, their theories might be slightly correct but their reasoning and reading of history aren't. The basic theory is that if more of the country is involved in dying in a war, the country is less likely to ignore the situation. Ie, for example, it is very easy to say, "We ought to go over to Bosnia and stop the ethnic cleansing!" when one will not be risking any of their own kin in such a battle. Those who would be, however, are likely to object to such a viewpoint. UNFORTUNALLY, history doesn't quite show that. The draft stopped in 1973ish; how many wars and battles were we involved in before that? Personally, I believe that the country should be more involved, in blood, in the fights it gets into. The draft argument, however, can be another aspect of "what is the military for?". That is, do we want to have the country more involved in the fight by bringing in a greater percentage of misfits and troublemakers? Or do we want to be able to pick from the better qualified applicants who want to be there in order to have an effective fighting force? (a quick statement on that viewpoint). Finally, of course, even if there was a draft, odds are the politicians would find ways to keep their sons out of it....just as they probably did when they were young. _________________________________________________________________________________________ ("An interesting hypothesis, Doctor, but your reasoning is reckless."––Spock, (w,stte), ST:TOS, "The Man Trap") |
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Also I don't want to be the guy getting on an airplane that a conscript who doesn't want to be there worked on. Does your idiot professor? I'm not going to trust my life to someone that absolutely does not want to be here. Yet we were able to make it work for several decades. I am not saying conscription should be done, but it has been made to work in the US, it started to being less viable when we started to become lacks on the discipline though. Made it work, but it didn't work well, morale suffered horribly, professionalism wasn't even mentioned, and the work conscripts do is unskilled shit. Conscripts were working avionics, crew chief, etc which, if I really wanted to, would be absurdly easy to bring an aircraft packed with people crashing down? People who don't give a crap about the people they're sending into the sky or walking into a gunfight with? Fuck that shit. There's a reason the U.S. military enjoys relatively high morale and professionalism. I may not want to be in the shithole I'm deployed to right now, but I want to be part of this military. I owe it to the people I work alongside, and I have to face facts: the military's been *REALLY* good to me. If I get it wrong one time, one tiny mistake, and a lot of people die. Those people are my fellow Americans, and probably friends. I will do everything imaginable to ensure that does not come to pass. A consript feels exactly opposite to how I do. While you might get some people converted to believe, you'll get others that hate it that much more. I don't want the guy next to me, that I wager my life on to be one of those 99% pieces of shit who don't even have the decency to believe in the country, and hate us that had the cajones to voluntarily put our lives on the line. That not really the case, moral was fine and you didn't see failings in the conscript system till near the end of Vietnam, but this also coincided with softening of the standards and discipline. Conscripts were used even in highly technical fields to include aviation and maintenance; however you saw many of the highly qualified potential conscripts volunteer so they could get the more technical jobs thus avoid assignment to the infantry. You would probably see a similar thing today a spike in volunteers so they could pick their job vice being forced into something less tasteful. |
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Also I don't want to be the guy getting on an airplane that a conscript who doesn't want to be there worked on. Does your idiot professor? I'm not going to trust my life to someone that absolutely does not want to be here. Yet we were able to make it work for several decades. I am not saying conscription should be done, but it has been made to work in the US, it started to being less viable when we started to become lacks on the discipline though. Made it work, but it didn't work well, morale suffered horribly, professionalism wasn't even mentioned, and the work conscripts do is unskilled shit. Conscripts were working avionics, crew chief, etc which, if I really wanted to, would be absurdly easy to bring an aircraft packed with people crashing down? People who don't give a crap about the people they're sending into the sky or walking into a gunfight with? Fuck that shit. There's a reason the U.S. military enjoys relatively high morale and professionalism. I may not want to be in the shithole I'm deployed to right now, but I want to be part of this military. I owe it to the people I work alongside, and I have to face facts: the military's been *REALLY* good to me. If I get it wrong one time, one tiny mistake, and a lot of people die. Those people are my fellow Americans, and probably friends. I will do everything imaginable to ensure that does not come to pass. A consript feels exactly opposite to how I do. While you might get some people converted to believe, you'll get others that hate it that much more. I don't want the guy next to me, that I wager my life on to be one of those 99% pieces of shit who don't even have the decency to believe in the country, and hate us that had the cajones to voluntarily put our lives on the line. That not really the case, moral was fine and you didn't see failings in the conscript system till near the end of Vietnam, but this also coincided with softening of the standards and discipline. I think you’re alluding to personal discipline in the general populace. If so, I see where you’re going and agree with you. The military has gotten way too touchy feelie for my tastes. If you’re a screw up, I get to tell you in the nastiest way possible. Quoted:
Conscripts were used even in highly technical fields to include aviation and maintenance; however you saw many of the highly qualified potential conscripts volunteer so they could get the more technical jobs thus avoid assignment to the infantry. You would probably see a similar thing today a spike in volunteers so they could pick their job vice being forced into something less tasteful. Basically this argument is self defeating as people routinely go into the military to get a highly technical education/jobs that they can then use on the outside now without a draft. The problem with that is that if forced, they’re going to do a lackluster job, not fantastic… That said, the people we’re getting now are, sometimes, pretty damn worthless. We just got a guy who is possibly the stupidest kid I’ve ever known. He’s genius level intelligent, but put a screwdriver in his hands and he’d have it in his ass, and his torquewrench technique has to be seen to be believed. (He actually managed to strip an Allen head bolt that only has to be torqued to 30 inch pounds.) Another guy we got almost at the same time is possibly the most gifted aviation technician I’ve ever even seen. The kid will be my boss someday if he can keep his smart mouth shut so I don’t have to murder him. |
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Brasil has mandatory conscription. The last war BR was in was WW2... maybe the professor has a point. Maybe not... Brasil is sending troops into the favelas, and the Brasilian military has undertaken combat operations. I was briefed on both by a Brasilian officer recently. Very interesting and competent gentleman. |
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I should also say that this professor is a middle aged woman with chronic medical issues. How noble of her to advocate the compulsory sacrifice of others. You sound scared of the whole concept ? A draft is a good idea for many reasons , but due to the pussification of America I am sad to say I think it is gone forever . |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I should also say that this professor is a middle aged woman with chronic medical issues. How noble of her to advocate the compulsory sacrifice of others. You sound scared of the whole concept ? A draft is a good idea for many reasons , but due to the pussification of America I am sad to say I think it is gone forever . Oh, really? |
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Politicians can have their children exempted. They have the strings. In the old days the kids rushed forward to prove themselves and to serve their nation. Times have changed. If I had a kid, I would want him or her to die for Zero in Syria. You may want to edit this post... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I should also say that this professor is a middle aged woman with chronic medical issues. How noble of her to advocate the compulsory sacrifice of others. You sound scared of the whole concept ? A draft is a good idea for many reasons , but due to the pussification of America I am sad to say I think it is gone forever . Oh, really? Didn't you read Heinlien? A bloated unnecessarily large peace time military creates badass super citizens. |
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Made it work, but it didn't work well, morale suffered horribly, professionalism wasn't even mentioned, and the work conscripts do is unskilled shit. Conscripts were working avionics, crew chief, etc which, if I really wanted to, would be absurdly easy to bring an aircraft packed with people crashing down? People who don't give a crap about the people they're sending into the sky or walking into a gunfight with? Morale in Vietnam didn't suffer until it became clear to everyone that the government had no intention of winning the war. Once that happened the volunteers and the professionals had the same morale problems. Few people wish to throw their lives away. Millions of American men were conscripted into the armed services during 5 wars. They served honorably and well. Now, people who weren't even alive during the last of those wars are self-appointed experts on how well conscripts served and yes, fought. 
I shouldn't be surprised when people think they know about situations which they've never experienced, but sometimes it still happens. |
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Professor in an, "History of the Modern Middle East" community college class dropped this gem on us: If we want to prevent war we should reinstate the draft since politicians will be to afraid to send their sons to war. How the fuck are these people allowed to teach? Any history teacher should especially know that conscript armies and drafts do not PREVENT WAR. Foreign policy prevents wars. Not to mention people in high places have absolutely no trouble securing exceptions for family members. There's enough people in the all volunteer army that don't want to be in, last thing we need is a few hundred thousand guys who REALLY don't want to be in. I subscribe to the belief that the draft should be used only as a last line of defense (IE the russians are on American soil and we need a monster army fucking yesterday) and in that case, if you have to instate a draft in order to find enough people willing to defend their own country, what are you really defending? |