[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sovereign Citizens (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 2/21/2012 2:09:52 PM EDT
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I was just reading the liberal rag called the Baltimore Sun newspapers. They have an article about this loosely knit group of people that call themselves "sovereign citizens". Supposedly 100,000 belong to this movement. I don't have the specifics, but SC's believe that our currency is worthless since it's not backed by gold, and that several amendments to the constituion are not lawful. The people also believe that they have the right to use force against officials who try to make them obey a law to which they do not agree.
Note: I have not conducted any research on this movement...this is what the article says. So, one arm of the Federal government tells others that this group is a significant threat to the security of the US (like terrorists)....these groups and those like them must be CLOSELY MONITORED. Thoughts: Is this the beginnings of a revolution? As members on sites like this, should we be concerned that our transmissions are being monitored? So we really should be careful about OPSEC? (I love that military lingo). |
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards.
They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". |
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I was just reading the liberal rag called the Baltimore Sun newspapers. They have an article about this loosely knit group of people that call themselves "sovereign citizens". Supposedly 100,000 belong to this movement. I don't have the specifics, but SC's believe that our currency is worthless since it's not backed by gold, and that several amendments to the constituion are not lawful. The people also believe that they have the right to use force against officials who try to make them obey a law to which they do not agree. Note: I have not conducted any research on this movement...this is what the article says. So, one arm of the Federal government tells others that this group is a significant threat to the security of the US (like terrorists)....these groups and those like them must be CLOSELY MONITORED. Thoughts: Is this the beginnings of a revolution? As members on sites like this, should we be concerned that our transmissions are being monitored? So we really should be careful about OPSEC? (I love that military lingo). Look up the dash cam footage of the West Memphis officer murders. That should tell you all you need to know about these idiots. Also, I dont agree with them. They have a point or two that makes sense but they are not someone I want to be thrown in the same "group" as. |
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http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/april/sovereigncitizens_041310 2010
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-fbi-extremists-idUSTRE81600V20120207 Feb2012 Look at the description: Pissed off people, vocal against taxes or flat out not paying them, "frivolous lawsuits" against public officials, and not adhering to environmental regulations. How easily could anybody be lumped into this group? There's fucking crazy people all over the place, but dodging excessive taxes and bucking asinine environmental regs doesn't seem worthy of growing national threat press release to me. |
Yeah we have them in Colorado 
Sovereign Citizen/Posse Comitatus, supposedly believe there is no higher for of government above county level and that the sheriff is the ultimate law entity. It's crap. Hell, from what I recall I think they were started by some guy who had ties to the Nazi party (not sure how true that is, but what I remember.) Just another bunch of anti-government whack-a-does 
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Google them and check out their driver's license cards and vehicle plates. I've encountered them from time to time, though only once with one of their IDs. I get a "pass" with them as a Deputy (Sheriff is an elected position, so they recognize his authority).
The one that had the fake driver's license ID was not pleased with me though. 
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http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/april/sovereigncitizens_041310 2010 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-fbi-extremists-idUSTRE81600V20120207 Feb2012 Look at the description: Pissed off people, vocal against taxes or flat out not paying them, "frivolous lawsuits" against public officials, and not adhering to environmental regulations. How easily could anybody be lumped into this group? There's fucking crazy people all over the place, but dodging excessive taxes and bucking asinine environmental regs doesn't seem worthy of growing national threat press release to me. It's pretty easy to get lumped into that group if you make your own license plates and IDs, refuse to recognize any government authority and act as if you are a sovereign entity that is answerable to no one. |
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You might feel empathy toward soverign citizen upon first hearing about them, but believe me when you meet these people you will recognize that they are as someone said above selfish anarchists who try to cloak themselves under their own color of law. They spend a lot of time looking for loopholes in the law or excuses not to follow the law that are often based on pure fantasy and unfortunately these justifications for not following the law are often spread through the internet.
They will file fraudulent financial filings against public officials or just people they don't like such as the owner of property they were squatting in, which they love to do. Dealing with these people is a real PITA, because you better go down and check for fraudulent security agreement filings they may have filed against you that will appear when lenders examine whether to give you loans based on collateral you hold. They're not insane in the sense that they can get away with an insanity plea to crimes, but they're definitely not playing with a full deck. Paranoid is a real good way to describe these people. Vindictive and petty would be other words I would use to describe them. They are definitely DANGEROUS. If you're an LEO and you come on some traffic stop with a guy who doesn't have a driver's license and tells you he doesn't need one or signs his ticket with a TM or Copy Right symbol next to it he's probably a soverign citizen and be extremely careful. These are the type of folks with warrants for certain for things like back child support or contempt of court and so forth. I've dealt with three of these idiots and so far none of them have been violent, but they don't see any illegality in shooting you and folks need to be aware of this. |
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Quoted: Yeah we have them in Colorado Sovereign Citizen/Posse Comitatus, supposedly believe there is no higher for of government above county level and that the sheriff is the ultimate law entity. It's crap. Hell, from what I recall I think they were started by some guy who had ties to the Nazi party (not sure how true that is, but what I remember.) Just another bunch of anti-government whack-a-does lol...yep they must be bad people then. Anti-government Fascists.  |
| The basic premise that we are our own sovereigns who consent to be governed is right but these are fruitcakes who have taken it to extreme. Collectively we can change things but we can't opt out as individuals. (I hope this makes sense but I have a feeling that it didn't.) |
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Yeah we have them in Colorado
Sovereign Citizen/Posse Comitatus, supposedly believe there is no higher for of government above county level and that the sheriff is the ultimate law entity. It's crap. Hell, from what I recall I think they were started by some guy who had ties to the Nazi party (not sure how true that is, but what I remember.) Just another bunch of anti-government whack-a-does lol...yep they must be bad people then. Anti-government Fascists.
Of course. Morris Dees and his buddies at the Southern Poverty Law Center say they're bad. |
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You might feel empathy toward soverign citizen upon first hearing about them, but believe me when you meet these people you will recognize that they are as someone said above selfish anarchists who try to cloak themselves under their own color of law. They spend a lot of time looking for loopholes in the law or excuses not to follow the law that are often based on pure fantasy and unfortunately these justifications for not following the law are often spread through the internet. They will file fraudulent financial filings against public officials or just people they don't like such as the owner of property they were squatting in, which they love to do. Dealing with these people is a real PITA, because you better go down and check for fraudulent security agreement filings they may have filed against you that will appear when lenders examine whether to give you loans based on collateral you hold. They're not insane in the sense that they can get away with an insanity plea to crimes, but they're definitely not playing with a full deck. Paranoid is a real good way to describe these people. Vindictive and petty would be other words I would use to describe them. They are definitely DANGEROUS. If you're an LEO and you come on some traffic stop with a guy who doesn't have a driver's license and tells you he doesn't need one or signs his ticket with a TM or Copy Right symbol next to it he's probably a soverign citizen and be extremely careful. These are the type of folks with warrants for certain for things like back child support or contempt of court and so forth. I've dealt with three of these idiots and so far none of them have been violent, but they don't see any illegality in shooting you and folks need to be aware of this. Well said |
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You might feel empathy toward soverign citizen upon first hearing about them, but believe me when you meet these people you will recognize that they are as someone said above selfish anarchists who try to cloak themselves under their own color of law. They spend a lot of time looking for loopholes in the law or excuses not to follow the law that are often based on pure fantasy and unfortunately these justifications for not following the law are often spread through the internet. They will file fraudulent financial filings against public officials or just people they don't like such as the owner of property they were squatting in, which they love to do. Dealing with these people is a real PITA, because you better go down and check for fraudulent security agreement filings they may have filed against you that will appear when lenders examine whether to give you loans based on collateral you hold. They're not insane in the sense that they can get away with an insanity plea to crimes, but they're definitely not playing with a full deck. Paranoid is a real good way to describe these people. Vindictive and petty would be other words I would use to describe them. They are definitely DANGEROUS. If you're an LEO and you come on some traffic stop with a guy who doesn't have a driver's license and tells you he doesn't need one or signs his ticket with a TM or Copy Right symbol next to it he's probably a soverign citizen and be extremely careful. These are the type of folks with warrants for certain for things like back child support or contempt of court and so forth. I've dealt with three of these idiots and so far none of them have been violent, but they don't see any illegality in shooting you and folks need to be aware of this. Well said Very well said. They can be dangerous. Another tip off will be a driver stating they are "traveling" and require no DL. |
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They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". This. Whatever good points they make are negated by the fact that they emotional wrecks of human beings, like a toddler in a grown ups body. |
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Sovereign Citizen types are crazy and some are dangerous. A neighboring PD warrant officer got into a shootout with one of them a little while ago. The Sovereign Citizen, James Tesi, took a .40 round to the leg and another right beneath his nose. Unfortunately he lived...
Star Telegram News Article FORT WORTH –– A Tarrant County jury Wednesday sentenced James Michael Tesi to 35 years in prison for shooting at a Colleyville police officer who was trying to arrest him. As the jury's decision was being read, Tesi, seated between his two attorneys, quietly recited something, his head bowed. Some of his family members wept. Tesi was indicted on a charge of attempted capital murder, but Tarrant County prosecutors decided instead to take him to trial on a charge of aggravated assault on a public servant with a deadly weapon. He was convicted of that charge on Tuesday. Jurors could have sentenced Tesi to five to 10 years with the possible recommendation for probation, or more than 10 years to life without the chance for probation. Defense attorney Ronald Harden asked the jury for a sentence of five years with probation. Prosecutor Dawn Ferguson asked for 20 or more years in prison. Ferguson described Tesi as a "ticking time bomb" after his arrest by Colleyville police on Dec. 20, 2010. "James Tesi was not going to follow the law," she said. That arrest led Tesi, 49, to write to the Colleyville police stating his intention to not be arrested again. So when warrant Officer John Fossett tried to arrest Tesi on July 21 for outstanding warrants, the two engaged in a 15-second shootout, exchanging at least 15 shots. Tesi was shot in the leg and face; Fossett was uninjured. Ferguson said Tesi fired six times. "That was six attempts to take an officer's life," she said. "Here in Tarrant County, in the state of Texas, we are not going to allow people to shoot at officers." She said the jury should send a message to Fossett and all other officers in Tarrant County "that we respect what you do." In making his request for a five-year sentence with probation, Harden put on the stand six character witnesses, including co-workers in Tesi's profession of occupational therapy, neighbors from Tesi's block in north Hurst and his fiancée. "Look at the kind of work that he does," Harden said. "He has been involved in helping people all his life. He is not a career criminal." The shooting lasted only 15 seconds, Harden said. "We are talking about 15 seconds that will alter the rest of [Tesi's] life." Katie Roberts, Tesi's fiancée, also has worked with him as an occupational therapist. She said he is "a very good person" and people who he has helped "say good things about him." Roberts also said that Tesi might not be able to work as a therapist because of his shooting injuries, but she could ensure that he is employed by having him do paperwork. Other co-workers also described Tesi as a "caring person" and not as a violent person. "He's a great guy," one said. "This was a total shock." Friends and neighbors were asked if they knew about Tesi's political views. Tesi has described himself in various civil court filings as a "sovereign citizen" and a member of the Moorish National Republic. Fred Custer, a physical therapist and friend, said that while Tesi had mentioned his beliefs in the past "talking a little bit about the Republic of Texas and history," he said Tesi always "struck me as being a law-abiding citizen." Based on the comments from the character witnesses, Harden said Tesi's "opportunity for completion [of probation] is high. The opportunity [that Tesi will] offend again is low." After sentencing and after the jury was dismissed by state District Judge Everett Young, Harden moved to have the guilty verdict thrown out and called for a new trial. He said a juror was influenced in the verdict when that juror's employer threatened to fire him for missing work during the trial. Judge Young said he wrote a letter to that employer. Harden also asked Young to overturn the verdict "based on the preponderance of evidence" that Tesi was not guilty. Young denied both motions. Harden later said that he was sure Tesi would appeal the verdict, but declined to say anything more about the case. "I do not want to compromise [Tesi's] appeal," he said. Prosecutor Jim Hudson said in a post-trial statement that "it's OK to have beliefs, but you don't commit crimes in the name of those beliefs. You don't get to pull a gun on a police officer over a traffic ticket." The jury found Tesi guilty based on the evidence, Hudson said. During their deliberations, the jury members asked to see Tesi's letter to the Colleyville police, his eight-page document he kept in his vehicle explaining that he did not have to have a driver's license or auto insurance, the dispatcher's audio recording of the July 21 event and photographs of Tesi's garage. "I can only draw the conclusion that they didn't have much trouble Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/01/3705019/sovereign-citizen-sentenced-to.html#storylink=cpy |
| My wife works in the legal department of out little city. She was recently sued for $1 billion by one of these wackjobs. Fortunately, the court where he files knows exactly who he is and the case was thrown out. He has done this to just about every city official and many of the county officials as well. |
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". Well said. I would not associate with anyone claiming to be one. |
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Yeah we have them in Colorado
Sovereign Citizen/Posse Comitatus, supposedly believe there is no higher for of government above county level and that the sheriff is the ultimate law entity. It's crap. Hell, from what I recall I think they were started by some guy who had ties to the Nazi party (not sure how true that is, but what I remember.) Just another bunch of anti-government whack-a-does We sure do. They are a hoot in Court. You know you've made it as a lawyer when they sue you in Federal Court. |
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". To be fair, some of them are just blatant tax cheats, and nothing more. |
| Yeah, watch the video of the father and son that shot and killed the two police officers in west memphis arkansas during a traffic stop. They were both killed later but father and son would travel to give lectures about mortgages being illegal along with the whole foreclosure process. They were traveling in a minivan with homemade plates since they don't recognize the .gov's authority to regulate vehicles. |
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". This. |
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Quoted: Yeah we have them in Colorado Sovereign Citizen/Posse Comitatus, supposedly believe there is no higher for of government above county level and that the sheriff is the ultimate law entity. It's crap. Hell, from what I recall I think they were started by some guy who had ties to the Nazi party (not sure how true that is, but what I remember.) Just another bunch of anti-government whack-a-does The County Sheriff is the only legally elected law enforcement officer in the nation. Everyone else is appointed by the government. |
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". This post combined with the fact that they are dangerous moonbats. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them came back as borderlines with sociopath tendencies. |
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I would say more like Antisocial disorder than borderline persinality disorder. Sociopaths, yeah more than likely. They all need to be called out by people like ourselves. It is this type of behavior that gets people into gun grabbing moods.
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". This post combined with the fact that they are dangerous moonbats. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them came back as borderlines with sociopath tendencies. |
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Yeah we have them in Colorado
Sovereign Citizen/Posse Comitatus, supposedly believe there is no higher for of government above county level and that the sheriff is the ultimate law entity. It's crap. Hell, from what I recall I think they were started by some guy who had ties to the Nazi party (not sure how true that is, but what I remember.) Just another bunch of anti-government whack-a-does We sure do. They are a hoot in Court. You know you've made it as a lawyer when they sue you in Federal Court. That must be epic! Don't they represent themselves too? You know what they say...........
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". This. Fuck the sovereign citizens and the ghey ass horse they rode in under. |
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The actual "soverign citizens" basically are moon bat retards. They refuse to obey any laws they don't like, but use the courts/legal bs to jam up anyone who messes with them (ie trying to put leins on officers who pull them over, etc). Real freaking wackos. They don't respect the law, they're just anarchists cloaking themselves in the draperies of "respecting the Constitution". To be fair, some of them are just blatant tax cheats, and nothing more. Yep |
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These guys are just going to be linked to 'us' as a reasoning behind our disarmament.
The propaganda will start that other traits include stockpiling food or goods, collecting firearms, possessing more than 20 rounds of ammo for any firearm... It's coming. The sad part is that the backlash to these folks may legitimize the crux of their beliefs. |
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These guys are just going to be linked to 'us' as a reasoning behind our disarmament. The propaganda will start that other traits include stockpiling food or goods, collecting firearms, possessing more than 20 rounds of ammo for any firearm... It's coming. The sad part is that the backlash to these folks may legitimize the crux of their beliefs. 
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Sovereign Citizen types are crazy and some are dangerous. A neighboring PD warrant officer got into a shootout with one of them a little while ago. The Sovereign Citizen, James Tesi, took a .40 round to the leg and another right beneath his nose. Unfortunately he lived... Star Telegram News Article FORT WORTH –– A Tarrant County jury Wednesday sentenced James Michael Tesi to 35 years in prison for shooting at a Colleyville police officer who was trying to arrest him. As the jury's decision was being read, Tesi, seated between his two attorneys, quietly recited something, his head bowed. Some of his family members wept. Tesi was indicted on a charge of attempted capital murder, but Tarrant County prosecutors decided instead to take him to trial on a charge of aggravated assault on a public servant with a deadly weapon. He was convicted of that charge on Tuesday. Jurors could have sentenced Tesi to five to 10 years with the possible recommendation for probation, or more than 10 years to life without the chance for probation. Defense attorney Ronald Harden asked the jury for a sentence of five years with probation. Prosecutor Dawn Ferguson asked for 20 or more years in prison. Ferguson described Tesi as a "ticking time bomb" after his arrest by Colleyville police on Dec. 20, 2010. "James Tesi was not going to follow the law," she said. That arrest led Tesi, 49, to write to the Colleyville police stating his intention to not be arrested again. So when warrant Officer John Fossett tried to arrest Tesi on July 21 for outstanding warrants, the two engaged in a 15-second shootout, exchanging at least 15 shots. Tesi was shot in the leg and face; Fossett was uninjured. Ferguson said Tesi fired six times. "That was six attempts to take an officer's life," she said. "Here in Tarrant County, in the state of Texas, we are not going to allow people to shoot at officers." She said the jury should send a message to Fossett and all other officers in Tarrant County "that we respect what you do." In making his request for a five-year sentence with probation, Harden put on the stand six character witnesses, including co-workers in Tesi's profession of occupational therapy, neighbors from Tesi's block in north Hurst and his fiancée. "Look at the kind of work that he does," Harden said. "He has been involved in helping people all his life. He is not a career criminal." The shooting lasted only 15 seconds, Harden said. "We are talking about 15 seconds that will alter the rest of [Tesi's] life." Katie Roberts, Tesi's fiancée, also has worked with him as an occupational therapist. She said he is "a very good person" and people who he has helped "say good things about him." Roberts also said that Tesi might not be able to work as a therapist because of his shooting injuries, but she could ensure that he is employed by having him do paperwork. Other co-workers also described Tesi as a "caring person" and not as a violent person. "He's a great guy," one said. "This was a total shock." Friends and neighbors were asked if they knew about Tesi's political views. Tesi has described himself in various civil court filings as a "sovereign citizen" and a member of the Moorish National Republic. Fred Custer, a physical therapist and friend, said that while Tesi had mentioned his beliefs in the past "talking a little bit about the Republic of Texas and history," he said Tesi always "struck me as being a law-abiding citizen." Based on the comments from the character witnesses, Harden said Tesi's "opportunity for completion [of probation] is high. The opportunity [that Tesi will] offend again is low." After sentencing and after the jury was dismissed by state District Judge Everett Young, Harden moved to have the guilty verdict thrown out and called for a new trial. He said a juror was influenced in the verdict when that juror's employer threatened to fire him for missing work during the trial. Judge Young said he wrote a letter to that employer. Harden also asked Young to overturn the verdict "based on the preponderance of evidence" that Tesi was not guilty. Young denied both motions. Harden later said that he was sure Tesi would appeal the verdict, but declined to say anything more about the case. "I do not want to compromise [Tesi's] appeal," he said. Prosecutor Jim Hudson said in a post-trial statement that "it's OK to have beliefs, but you don't commit crimes in the name of those beliefs. You don't get to pull a gun on a police officer over a traffic ticket." The jury found Tesi guilty based on the evidence, Hudson said. During their deliberations, the jury members asked to see Tesi's letter to the Colleyville police, his eight-page document he kept in his vehicle explaining that he did not have to have a driver's license or auto insurance, the dispatcher's audio recording of the July 21 event and photographs of Tesi's garage. "I can only draw the conclusion that they didn't have much trouble Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/01/3705019/sovereign-citizen-sentenced-to.html#storylink=cpy What an asshole. I guess Mr. Tesi didn't recognize the authority of firearm instructors, either. |