Posted: 1/18/2012 7:33:12 AM EDT
Yup, and despite what the commentator said, if you want to opt out of getting one installed, you can’t. Ask me how I know. Then again, people are willingly walking around with trackable iPhones, posting their lives on sites like Facebook, letting Google track their search results, supporting “policing” by camera, etc., so what’s one more freedom-stealing device in the New World Order? And don’t forget to take comfort in the fact that voting is all done electronically. |
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Unless they're using the information to find people with rooms full of MJ grow lamps in a house, I could give a shit less if the local utility has a breakdown of my power usage in more detail than they have now. The commentator's bit about "whether you were at home on the night of the murder" probably took 3 cases of tin foil to conjure up... and someone that worried about the utility spying on them could just as easily use a $3 lamp timer. The only part about all of this smart grid crap that bothers me is the mention of the utility being able to randomly jack up your rates at times of "increased demand". |
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 http://youtu.be/8JNFr_j6kdI
Yup, and despite what the commentator said, if you want to opt out of getting one installed, you can’t. Ask me how I know. Then again, people are willingly walking around with trackable iPhones, posting their lives on sites like Facebook, letting Google track their search results, supporting “policing” by camera, etc., so what’s one more freedom-stealing device in the New World Order? And don’t forget to take comfort in the fact that voting is all done electronically. Privacy's already gone man. Smart Meters are pretty minor given all the other ways your personal information can be mined. |
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The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers.
The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. |
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The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers. The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. So what's the likelihood of those cost savings being passed along to the consumer? |
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If you're talking RF-equipped power meters that can be read remotely from the street, it's not a problem.
If you're talking the remotely-throttled meters to reduce peak energy consumption so that you pay extra to help the power company maximize profits... fuck that. |
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The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers. The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. So what's the likelihood of those cost savings being passed along to the consumer? Once the $500 meter is paid for, and assuming the government doesn't get involved, and assuming power companies have competition for your business... very good, actually. Funny story, though, that none of those assumptions are true in America. 
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| I don't have a "smart" meter at my home but about a year ago the local police came to my door to inquire about the sudden dramatic increase in my power consumption (I guess someone with the power company reported it). I invited them inside and showed them my new (at the time) saltwater aquarium with high-intensity lights that keep the live coral healthy. They were satisfied that I didn't have a "grow house" for pot. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers. The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. So what's the likelihood of those cost savings being passed along to the consumer? Considering how utility rates are regulated, very likely. Probably in the form of no longer needed rate increases. The big advantage of smart meters is for commercial users. Once they have a usage profile (instead of just a month end total usage) the power company can go the commercial user and offer lower rates if they operate in off hours, or make certain equipment changes. The power company can make better use of off hours (ie, nighttime, weekends), and sell more power during those times. |
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The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers. The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. So what's the likelihood of those cost savings being passed along to the consumer? You do understand how competition works, don't you? My area has been deregulated for years now, I'm constantly finding better deals on electricity. Tell me, what incentive does a "for profit" business have to have higher prices than their competition, all else being equal? By all else being equal I'm referring to no distinguishable difference in service or quality of product. None of the energy companies I have dealt with have provided me "better" electricity than the others. |
| I'm not to upset about them, except my city isn't too woried about fixing their little mistakes that cost other people money. One local guy complained long and loud about an empty rental house he owned that had the power cut off at the box and the "smart meter" was still running the bill up. |
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The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers. The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. So what's the likelihood of those cost savings being passed along to the consumer? You do understand how competition works, don't you? My area has been deregulated for years now, I'm constantly finding better deals on electricity. Tell me, what incentive does a "for profit" business have to have higher prices than their competition, all else being equal? By all else being equal I'm referring to no distinguishable difference in service or quality of product. None of the energy companies I have dealt with have provided me "better" electricity than the others. I hope your not in Houston, cause "deregulation" there was a massive joke on the people to stupid to realize what was going on. There is only one power provider in Houston, but there are literally hundreds of middle men who purchase power credits from the one power provider and then resell them to individual home owners. Its a giant fucking scam. |
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The idea behind the "smart grid" is when it is fully implemented is that the smart meter will not only communicate back to the power company, but also to your appliances. The idea is to have most appliances to have a mesh network (zigbee) transceiver imbedded in them.
It will be used as a "nudge" to get you to conserve energy because your high draw appliances will be able to tell you how much it will cost to do, say a load of laundry during peak hours vs off peak hours. Theoretically, it could be used to establish patterns too, basically seeing when you are asleep, not home, when you are cooking, watching tv and the like. Advertisers would love data like that. It COULD also be used to restrict your use of certain appliances during peak usage or times where there might be a shortage of power. |
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I don't have a "smart" meter at my home but about a year ago the local police came to my door to inquire about the sudden dramatic increase in my power consumption (I guess someone with the power company reported it). I invited them inside and showed them my new (at the time) saltwater aquarium with high-intensity lights that keep the live coral healthy. They were satisfied that I didn't have a "grow house" for pot. You don't have one of these, do you? 
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Quoted: http://youtu.be/8JNFr_j6kdIYup, and despite what the commentator said, if you want to opt out of getting one installed, you can’t. Ask me how I know. Then again, people are willingly walking around with trackable iPhones, posting their lives on sites like Facebook, letting Google track their search results, supporting "policing” by camera, etc., so what’s one more freedom-stealing device in the New World Order? And don’t forget to take comfort in the fact that voting is all done electronically. Oh boy that massive douche bag. Fuck that guy. Smart meter means cheaper and more accurate recording of information. I have a RFID water meter, and have NEVER got a bad bill. I have gotten a bullshit power recording which is on a dumb meter due to some dipshit misreading the dials. |
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The idea behind the "smart grid" is when it is fully implemented is that the smart meter will not only communicate back to the power company, but also to your appliances. The idea is to have most appliances to have a mesh network (zigbee) transceiver imbedded in them. It will be used as a "nudge" to get you to conserve energy because your high draw appliances will be able to tell you how much it will cost to do, say a load of laundry during peak hours vs off peak hours. Theoretically, it could be used to establish patterns too, basically seeing when you are asleep, not home, when you are cooking, watching tv and the like. Advertisers would love data like that. It COULD also be used to restrict your use of certain appliances during peak usage or times where there might be a shortage of power. This guy understands what's coming down the pike. This smells of "sustainable development" and "smart growth" that are buzzwords for implementing parts of "UN Agenda 21" |
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Not watching the vid but The only ones I really don't like are the ones that turn your stuff like heat pumps on and off based on THEIR overall grid load. I think this leads to premature component failure and the system isn't designed to be controlled like that. yeah I was thinking this thread was going to be about smart thermostats - which are TOTAL bullshit because the power company will literally decide what temp your house should be and crap like that.. smart meters just make it easier to track your usage which they could do already with dumb meters if they chose to send more people to more houses more frequently so its not like its that big a change. |
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I have a "smart" natural gas meter. Should I lay on some more sand bags? Actually, I like it. I don't have to keep the pyracantha trimmed as often. The gas ones just save on reading expenses (drive down the street slowly, pick up meter readings). I had an inside meter that was always getting estimated (I am at work most of the day). After I added a lot of insulation it was way high a couple times. Remote reading was worth the hassle of a Saturday visit by the installer with the new meter. The electric ones can log usage by time, and are likely to end up playing a part in 'demand metering' that allows billing for power by time of use (very large industrial users have lived with it for a long time). Run the AC when it is really hot during the day and the rate will be higher sine the POCO has to generate or purchase expensive 'peaking power.' One of the rural co-ops nearby has a huge row of diesel generators that are always roaring away on every hot summer afternoon. It is very expensive power at that point. |
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The smart meters save costs as they don't have to have a guy walk around and read numbers. The really impressive use case for them is in incident response. At one conference there was a demo of a company's real world data from a power company. When the meters lost power they sent out a final "I'm dying" signal to the network. By determining the sequence of the failures and the extent of them their software was able to pinpoint the part of the system that caused the blackout to a large area, which reduced downtime for the customers. So what's the likelihood of those cost savings being passed along to the consumer? You do understand how competition works, don't you? My area has been deregulated for years now, I'm constantly finding better deals on electricity. Tell me, what incentive does a "for profit" business have to have higher prices than their competition, all else being equal? By all else being equal I'm referring to no distinguishable difference in service or quality of product. None of the energy companies I have dealt with have provided me "better" electricity than the others. Yes I do understand how competition works. I also understand how "deregulation" works in the utilities. I understand it enough to doubt claims that this shit will save me any money. 
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I have a "smart" natural gas meter. Should I lay on some more sand bags? Actually, I like it. I don't have to keep the pyracantha trimmed as often. The gas ones just save on reading expenses (drive down the street slowly, pick up meter readings). I had an inside meter that was always getting estimated (I am at work most of the day). After I added a lot of insulation it was way high a couple times. Remote reading was worth the hassle of a Saturday visit by the installer with the new meter. The electric ones can log usage by time, and are likely to end up playing a part in 'demand metering' that allows billing for power by time of use (very large industrial users have lived with it for a long time). Run the AC when it is really hot during the day and the rate will be higher sine the POCO has to generate or purchase expensive 'peaking power.' One of the rural co-ops nearby has a huge row of diesel generators that are always roaring away on every hot summer afternoon. It is very expensive power at that point. Don't worry, wind and solar will save the day! |
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I've had one for several years. They drive by on the gravel road about a 1/4 mile away and read the meter with a laptop. That's what I have too. My friend works for the local utilities and the 'smart meters' are those that record not only how much power you use, but at what times. Those that are remotely read are called something else. |
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I love my smart meter!! Then again I love charts and graphs so its akin to providing a shiny object for me to look at lol. I am biased too, I work for a utility that uses them :-D Do your charts and graphs break down usage by appliance? I'd like to be able to point out why and how much my electricity spikes when my daughters bring their dirty laundry home. 
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I love my smart meter!! Then again I love charts and graphs so its akin to providing a shiny object for me to look at lol. I am biased too, I work for a utility that uses them :-D Me too. If the user base would use actually USE THE PROVIDED data to effect, power rates could be reduced. How's that Cole? Well, creating new generation and transmission is pricy. If one were to use the data to reduce energy waste it could create a lighter load on the grid, reducing overhead/expansion costs. |
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I've had one for several years. They drive by on the gravel road about a 1/4 mile away and read the meter with a laptop. I've had one ever since I got the two large dogs that I have. Evidently, the meter-reader didn't want to go in my back yard any more, so I showed up one day, and the smart meter was already in place. 
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I love my smart meter!! Then again I love charts and graphs so its akin to providing a shiny object for me to look at lol. I am biased too, I work for a utility that uses them :-D This is why my wife will hate it when we get a house and have one. "There was a usage spike at 0400 on every Tuesday?! Why? What was on? We will be staying up all night every Tuesday until this is solved!" |
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I have a "smart" natural gas meter. Should I lay on some more sand bags? Actually, I like it. I don't have to keep the pyracantha trimmed as often. The gas ones just save on reading expenses (drive down the street slowly, pick up meter readings). I had an inside meter that was always getting estimated (I am at work most of the day). After I added a lot of insulation it was way high a couple times. Remote reading was worth the hassle of a Saturday visit by the installer with the new meter. The electric ones can log usage by time, and are likely to end up playing a part in 'demand metering' that allows billing for power by time of use (very large industrial users have lived with it for a long time). Run the AC when it is really hot during the day and the rate will be higher sine the POCO has to generate or purchase expensive 'peaking power.' One of the rural co-ops nearby has a huge row of diesel generators that are always roaring away on every hot summer afternoon. It is very expensive power at that point. Don't worry, wind and solar will save the day! Until it is cloudy and raining, and the wind is not blowing. Then we have to turn on all those nasty coal plants, unless you want to sit in the dark. That is the main problem with all the green energy crap. It still requires a backup if you want reliable power. |
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I have a "smart" natural gas meter. Should I lay on some more sand bags? Actually, I like it. I don't have to keep the pyracantha trimmed as often. The gas ones just save on reading expenses (drive down the street slowly, pick up meter readings). I had an inside meter that was always getting estimated (I am at work most of the day). After I added a lot of insulation it was way high a couple times. Remote reading was worth the hassle of a Saturday visit by the installer with the new meter. The electric ones can log usage by time, and are likely to end up playing a part in 'demand metering' that allows billing for power by time of use (very large industrial users have lived with it for a long time). Run the AC when it is really hot during the day and the rate will be higher sine the POCO has to generate or purchase expensive 'peaking power.' One of the rural co-ops nearby has a huge row of diesel generators that are always roaring away on every hot summer afternoon. It is very expensive power at that point. Don't worry, wind and solar will save the day! Until it is cloudy and raining, and the wind is not blowing. Then we have to turn on all those nasty coal plants, unless you want to sit in the dark. That is the main problem with all the green energy crap. It still requires a backup if you want reliable power. Yeah, the nuts and berries people have forced this wind energy upon us here in IL. The power company is forced to purchase and deliver any power these things generate (all @ a cost well above conventional power generation). It's a really a shame because IL by itself has more coal reserves than does Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have oil. We can't get nuclear either, so we're making ourselves dependent on these things that run on pixy dust and fairy farts.
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| I never want to hear the term smart meter again, i had to install 2012 of the gas ones underneath trailers and it should have been a 3 day job. park was so full of fuck that there were about 6 different fittings we had to use, half the pits were caved or under shit ass water, mixed with lightning and a tornado we had to cut our losses as it took 2 weeks and with the hotel and fittings barely broke even. |
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here is the problem
for now it's benign but in the future the dems get back in control of congress and the presidency Then the green idiots pass a law that says electricity will need to be rationed, so using the "smart meter" they MANDATE that all power companies reduce their power consumption by 25% because we CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. SO now the power companies starts randomly shutting down your electric appliances because they want to conserve energy and comply with the Government mandate. So of course you rich white scum don't need to run your central AC on the 110 degree day but the minority in the city will be disadvantaged because if they turn off their AC they might complain about discrimination. You see how this works. |
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Quoted: So of course you rich white scum don't need to run your central AC on the 110 degree day but the minority in the city will be disadvantaged because if they turn off their AC they might complain about discrimination. You see how this works. I'm middle class white scum surrounded by minorities in the city, so I'm good. 
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If smart meters are so smart, why do the taxpayers have to subsidize them?  The herp and derp from the supporters of the smart grid is getting shovel deep.We've done the internals, and regular eletro-mechanical meters are much less expensive (even with manual reading) and more reliable since they are based on the laws of physics and not on biased computer models, not to mention they have a longer useful service life (often up to 70 years without fail). We still have a number of old timey meters from the 1940's running like clockwork. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" - how does that work again? |
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All they do is automate what would normally take a guy in a truck to do (readings and turn on/turn offs). Oh, and they can call home to report that they aren't receiving power from the grid anymore, so it will help the utility respond to outages. On the water side, they also help the utility track down water leaks in the mains. The only thing about smart meters that worries me is that I'm the one who's going to have to make them work with our billing system when we finally decide to start using them. We did a study this past summer, and the numbers aren't there yet to make it worth the investment. One cool thing they allow for is pre-payment instead of post-payment, kinda like buying minutes on a pre-paid cell phone. It could save millions in lost revenue due to customers skipping out on their last month of payments when they move. |
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The ones they're installing around here are read / monitored via satellite. I'd be very surprised if that was actually the case. I was going by what the guys that installed mine told me, which was wrong. They actually use the cellular network. My point was that there is no guy in a van with a laptop, reading meters. They monitor in real time. |