Posted: 12/19/2011 11:53:33 AM EDT
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I don't own a 1911 so i'm not intimately familiar with them.
I'm at my wife's place in portland and her grandfather is over and talking about shooting 2.5" groups at 50m with a 5" with a compensator, standing with two hands. is this realistic? |
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Doable in the right hands.
Handgun accuracy has a lot more to do with the shooter than the gun or the ammo. Dont get me wrong.....weapon choice and load make a difference, but I'll suggest that most modern firearms are capable of accuracy that the owners arent physically capable of taking advantage of. 2.5" at 50m with a handgun is a good shot, but certainly not impossible. By comparison, with a scoped 10/22 from the bench at that same distance I can shoot the staples off the target backer all day long....and that is with cheap .22lr ammo. Give a good marksman a well built modern pistol and some time to practice, I would think they could hit tennis balls at that same distance. Hell, Im sure I could hit it a few times per magazine. |
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Quoted:
I don't own a 1911 so i'm not intimately familiar with them. I'm at my wife's place in portland and her grandfather is over and talking about shooting 2.5" groups at 50m with a 5" with a compensator, standing with two hands. is this realistic? Do you think all the swat guys/ delta guys are carrying the 1911 just for the fun of it? |
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Absolutely it's possible. A lot of guns can do that. Keep in mind that's only 5MOA. From a rest, I'll bet the gun is capable of 1" to 1.5" groups or less.
The long line is very difficult, and it takes a lot of practice to learn how to do it. And then once you think you know, you realize that you actually don't and you have to learn some more. |
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Quoted:
Doable in the right hands AND THE RIGHT CUSTOM 1911. Handgun accuracy has a lot more to do with the shooter than the gun or the ammo. Dont get me wrong.....weapon choice and load make a difference, but I'll suggest that most modern firearms are capable of accuracy that the owners arent physically capable of taking advantage of. 2.5" at 50m with a handgun is a good shot, but certainly not impossible. By comparison, with a scoped 10/22 from the bench at that same distance I can shoot the staples off the target backer all day long....and that is with cheap .22lr ammo. Give a good marksman a well built modern pistol and some time to practice, I would think they could hit tennis balls at that same distance. Hell, Im sure I could hit it a few times per magazine. Fixed it for you. A CUSTOM 1911 will do that. The AVERAGE 1911 - particularly the sub- $500 "G.I.", the cheap Philipine-made guns, and A1 copies & shorter barreled guns are not capable of that level of accuracy. At the end of their military service life, the average issued 1911 was not accurate at all. If you want a gun capable of such accuracy, you will have to pay for it. My SV in 9mm Supercomp can do it, but it is not a $500 1911 (or 2011 as the case may be). In contrast, many out-of-the-box .22s for that price could group that well for about $500 or less. |
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I don't own a 1911 so i'm not intimately familiar with them. I'm at my wife's place in portland and her grandfather is over and talking about shooting 2.5" groups at 50m with a 5" with a compensator, standing with two hands. is this realistic? 1/2" at 50 yards with a wad gun and 3" at 50 with a ball gun. |
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Quoted: I don't own a 1911 so i'm not intimately familiar with them. I'm at my wife's place in portland and her grandfather is over and talking about shooting 2.5" groups at 50m with a 5" with a compensator, standing with two hands. is this realistic? This is where the 1% v 99% (or .1% vs 99.9%) is real... Unless someone is competing at a high level, I don't believe stories like this. You just don't show up once or twice a year with standard gear and shoot like the pros/competitors. For experts, yeah, it's doable, but most are FAR from that skill level. Everything has to be working to get accuracy like that. Your vision, your hold, your trigger pull, your equipment, your breathing... As always, the normal curve is in effect. I've seen big talking guys chatter on about their long range accuracy, yet on the range they fail to produce the one ragged hole at 7 yards needed for long range results. In summary, possible, yes, probable, no. |
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Most good quality pro built Bullseye Wadcutter guns and Hardballl guns are guaranteed 1.5-2" Five shot group at 50yds Using a Ransom Rest.
Holding said gun up there with one hand or two and banging out a 2.5 " group ( with more than two rounds  ) at 50M or 50 yds is a different story.
In all my yrs of Bullseye I have only witnessed one clean 50 yd CF/45 slowfire target at a match. |
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I am not a world class shot, and the gun involved was not even mine - it was my fathers that had recently been worked on.
I fired three rounds of Remington 230 gn HP to confirm the sight adjustments at a target at 7 yards. The three rounds went into one hole dead-center of the X - thank God I had my brother there to witness. 2 hand hold, isocolese stance. This in a box-stock Mark IV series 70 that had been fitted with an 18 pound hammer spring and an STI Bomar style rear sight. Clean crisp 4.5 pound trigger pull. That gun shoots like a laser pointer, and it still has the factory collet bushing. |
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Quoted: I am not a world class shot, and the gun involved was not even mine - it was my fathers that had recently been worked on. I fired three rounds of Remington 230 gn HP to confirm the sight adjustments at a target at 7 yards. The three rounds went into one hole dead-center of the X - thank God I had my brother there to witness. 2 hand hold, isocolese stance. This in a box-stock Mark IV series 70 that had been fitted with an 18 pound hammer spring and an STI Bomar style rear sight. Clean crisp 4.5 pound trigger pull. That gun shoots like a laser pointer, and it still has the factory collet bushing. That's good shooting, far better than most will ever do, but it's still 7 yards. Vision issues and small errors add up rapidly as the distance increases. A ragged hole at 7 is about as good as I have ever done with my 686 (my most accurate handgun), and I can't get there with an auto. |
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Yes. Definitely possible, but difficult. I'm not all that good of a shot, but my basic Springfield Armory GI 1911 shot a 2.4" grouping, 8 shots, at 25 yards, and I still have the target sitting here by my desk... Over time and usage, the accuracy will degrade a bit though. Eventually the bushing loosens up, the barrel's lower lugs loosen up their fit to the slide stop cross pin, etc... The groups slowly widen up over time through use. The beautiful thing of a 1911, is after the groups start widening up, you can get back another 15% of its mechanical accuracy by just replacing the bushing (which was designed as a consumable replacement part) with a new one that's properly fitted to your barrel / slide. Tightening up the rails helps a bit too... Shouldn't need to do that for quite a long time though. A shooter more skilled than me - definitely can group like that with a good 5" government model. |
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Quoted: Yes. Definitely possible, but difficult. I'm not all that good of a shot, but my basic Springfield Armory GI 1911 shot a 2.4" grouping, 8 shots, at 25 yards, and I still have the target sitting here by my desk... LIAR! If you did an 8 shot 2.4 inch group at 25 yards. You ARE a good shot. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Yes. Definitely possible, but difficult. I'm not all that good of a shot, but my basic Springfield Armory GI 1911 shot a 2.4" grouping, 8 shots, at 25 yards, and I still have the target sitting here by my desk... LIAR! If you did an 8 shot 2.4 inch group at 25 yards. You ARE a good shot.   That was the first trip to the 25 yd indoor range with that 1911. It's actually something like 2.42" or 2.43"-ish when I later went home to measure it with dial calipers though. I'm a decent shot, but I'm darn-well not 2.5" at 50 yards good though! Moron in the next lane firing a Ruger 10/22 wildly all over the place hit my target a bunch of times...  That group was standing, modern two-hand grip, taking my time, with veeeeery carefuly breathing and trigger control. That same GI 1911 is still my daily carry gun now - with a number of modifications. It now has: Smith & Alexander beavertail grip safety & flat mainspring housing. Cylinder & Slide 3.5# Trigger assembly. EGW Oversize firing pin stop. 18.5# Wolff Recoil Spring & Heavy firing pin spring. 23# Wolff mainspring to replace ILS assembly. New trigger with overtravel stop adjusted to reduce pre-travel / take-up. I've SEEN that done by an older US AMU shooter in his late 50's (now he's probably in his early 70's), but I know I'm certainly not capable of that kind of shooting... Maybe someday with practice. |
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We set up 5 or 6 gold colored tobacco tins that were about 4 inches in diameter at a lazed 92 yds. on my friends farm.
I hit two out of one magazine with my 5" Wilson, one shot was dead center and the other was 1' off center. The pistol was fired off of shot filled bags of course. I doubt if I could ever pull that off again as my eyes are going down hill fast. |
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beware the old guy with a 1911 at the end of the range standing like this......wait until you see the targets before being too critical.... http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/lsheets65/bullseye2.jpg Old guy looks like he's playing pocket pool! (joke).
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Quoted:
I don't own a 1911 so i'm not intimately familiar with them. I'm at my wife's place in portland and her grandfather is over and talking about shooting 2.5" groups at 50m with a 5" with a compensator, standing with two hands. is this realistic? It is possible if you have a highly accurized 1911 in the hands of an expert. Ross Seyfried once wrote about his Pachmayr Combat Special, ( the gun that he used to capture the IPSC world championship ) and he said that the piece was capable of only 6" groups at 50 yards. But an accurized 1911 built by a master ( Clarke, Day, Swenson, Liebenberg, etc) can get it done. Fluffy |
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I did it once with a Colt Delta Gold Cup 10mm auto. I do not shoot enough anymore and cannot do it on a regular basis but was having a good day.
I can remember my college days, Dad got me a membership in a range so I could shoot, and one of the members was one of the accounting professors. He was shooting bullseye and was out there a lot, almost every weekend. One day he came over to our rifle range, max 250 yards and was doing a pretty good job of walking an old coffee can around at 250 yards. I'm not about to say he was hitting it every shot, but would not have wanted him shooting at me with that 1911 offhand at 250 yards. |