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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:13:06 AM EDT
My friends and I were 3 miles into the woods Tuesday evening target practicing at a well known shooters spot (gravel pit). We were saddled up to go, guns cased and not 5 yards from the truck when a Sheriff pulled up in his truck. He asked to see our firearms, said he wanted to make sure we weren't about to transport them loaded. So we showed him our rifles, no big deal. As I handled my Bushy he said "you must of paid a lot of money for that gun". I said "well yeah I suppose" (my friends all had bolt rifles). Some more small talk and then he said we could go on our way. What struck me was that he didn't inspect my rifle's configuration at all, never asked to see it up close. It's an M4gery with a pinned tele-stock. I could have had a functioning tele, a bayonet lug, M16 fire control group in it, whatever. He only saw my 30 rd empty mag as I removed it with the rifle handle side up in it's case and watched me open the bolt. He never really looked at it. Was that out of the ordinary? Was this guy ignorant?
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:16:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WhiskeyBravo: My friends and I were 3 miles into the woods Tuesday evening target practicing at a well known shooters spot (gravel pit). We were saddled up to go, guns cased and not 5 yards from the truck when a Sheriff pulled up in his truck. He asked to see our firearms, said he wanted to make sure we weren't about to transport them loaded. So we showed him our rifles, no big deal. As I handled my Bushy he said "you must of paid a lot of money for that gun". I said "well yeah I suppose" (my friends all had bolt rifles). Some more small talk and then he said we could go on our way. What struck me was that he didn't inspect my rifle's configuration at all, never asked to see it up close. It's an M4gery with a pinned tele-stock. I could have had a functioning tele, a bayonet lug, M16 fire control group in it, whatever. He only saw my 30 rd empty mag as I removed it with the rifle handle side up in it's case and watched me open the bolt. He never really looked at it. Was that out of the ordinary? Was this guy ignorant?
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Sounds like a good sheriff. He wanted to know what you were up to. You were out in the woods shooting, and that was good enough for him. I wish we had more people in LE with that "ain't hurting anything, no problem" attitude.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:19:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WhiskeyBravo: My friends and I were 3 miles into the woods Tuesday evening target practicing at a well known shooters spot (gravel pit). We were saddled up to go, guns cased and not 5 yards from the truck when a Sheriff pulled up in his truck. He asked to see our firearms, said he wanted to make sure we weren't about to transport them loaded. So we showed him our rifles, no big deal. As I handled my Bushy he said "you must of paid a lot of money for that gun". I said "well yeah I suppose" (my friends all had bolt rifles). Some more small talk and then he said we could go on our way. What struck me was that he didn't inspect my rifle's configuration at all, never asked to see it up close. It's an M4gery with a pinned tele-stock. I could have had a functioning tele, a bayonet lug, M16 fire control group in it, whatever. He only saw my 30 rd empty mag as I removed it with the rifle handle side up in it's case and watched me open the bolt. He never really looked at it. Was that out of the ordinary? Was this guy ignorant?
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You're not allowed to have them loaded?
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:19:16 AM EDT
Most Sheriff's Deputys are not real interested in doing BATF's work for them... A lot of them wouldn't know a pre-ban from a post-ban and could care less...
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:19:58 AM EDT
The guy wanted to check for laws that mattered IE .. loaded firearms being transported... He reailized your an american with a right to bear arms... and since you had sense eoungh not to transport loaded weapons he used common sense and concluded that all must be OK.. I wouldnt call the guy "ignorant" ... he showed that he had commen sense..
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:27:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 11:50:09 AM EDT
Local cops usually neither know or care about federal gun laws.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:12:32 PM EDT
I am somewhat familiar with federal firearms laws regarding "Assault weapons", class III's, destructive devices etc.. There are so many ambiguities and ATF "rules" and "decisions" regarding "Assault weapons" that you really never know if there is a violation or not. I really don't give a damn if someone has a pre ban upper on a post ban lower or if they have the correct amount of U.S. made parts on their AK. Unless there is a real firearms violation such as committing a crime using a firearm then I wouldn't waste any time with the Federal laws, rules, decisions or whatever they are calling them. The fact is most cops don't know or care either. Then again, it only takes one to put you in the trick bag.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:14:45 PM EDT
I'm going to weigh in here. Sounds like a totally reasonable Good Guy. Why should he break your balls if you don't overtly give him a reason to? THESE are the cops we need to SUPPORT!
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:19:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 12:20:56 PM EDT by CITADELGRAD87]
Seems to me like you're looking for something to bitch about. If he'd proned you out and gone through the weapons like he thought you were a criminal, would you be posting that he did a good, thorough job? I think not. He told you he wanted to see if they were loaded, and left you alone after he did that. How does that warrant criticism? Damned if they do, damned if they don't. What say we cut this PARTICULAR LEO a fucking break?
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:21:10 PM EDT
Agreed.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:24:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 12:26:39 PM EDT by Lckydevl]
Citadel, If you are referring to the post that started this thread I think you misunderstood the point. He was asking if the Sheriff should have known more about his weapon configuration. At least thats all I read into the post.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:29:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lckydevl: Citadel, If you are referring to the post that started this thread I think you misunderstood the point. He was asking if the Sheriff should have known more about his weapon configuration.
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Luckydevl, What I'm referring to is obvious. The FIRST post here says he was told by the sheriff that he wanted to see their weapons to see if they were transposting them loaded. The sheriff looked ONLY to see if they were loaded, when they were not, he said they could go. Then he observed: " He never really looked at it. Was that out of the ordinary? Was this guy ignorant? " I replied to that question. I know he thinks the sheriff should have lied to him and used the excuse to see if he could bust them for federal weapon law violations. The point is, the sheriff did not do that, he told the truth, and that, apparently, is a problem.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:31:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 12:44:40 PM EDT by Wadman]
Luckydevil, No I think that was the point of the post; he's complaining that the sheriff didn't know or care about the weapon's configuration and must somehow be ignorant. You know, there's no end to the strange posts lately. First a couple guys get into it about resident aliens and citizens. Then there's the circumcision thread. Now we have a guy complaining about the lack of LEO harassment and another guy with reading comprehension issues. WTF? [b]WhiskyBravo[/b] Are you still upset over your treatment by the sheriff? P.S. The delete button is your friend.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:32:01 PM EDT
I think he did what a reasonable LEO should do. He made sure everything was ok and sent you on your way. Most local cops don't know pre-ban vs. post ban and don't care. I had to explain to a couple of full time deputies who I work with why they had to get a letter from the Sheriff to purchase LE AR's and the differences. A lot of local types, especially Sheriffs Depts. , don't care much for FED's.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:32:05 PM EDT
I would say that the Sheriff did not really care to do the ATF's job (as others have mentioned.) Not sure about your state law, but if you can't transport a loaded firearm I would say he was just doing his job. Sounds like a good guy overall. medcop
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:36:32 PM EDT
Ignorant, No. Doing his job by inspecting if loaded, Yes. Good guy? Yes.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 12:50:42 PM EDT by Lckydevl]
Citadel, Point taken. I just took it as a question about the Sheriff's knowledge. It could be taken as a slam though. I agree the Sheriff's actions were nothing out of the ordinary. My guess is he just wanted to see if they had anything cool to look at. Wadboy, My comprehension abilities I guess are affected by my nature to give someone the benefit of the doubt and not to jump someone's sh*t unless they take a piss on my mailbox. COMPRENDE'
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:16:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lckydevl Wadboy, My comprehension abilities I guess are affected by my nature to give someone the benefit of the doubt and not to jump someone's sh*t unless they take a piss on my mailbox. COMPRENDE'
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Wadboy??? Gee, that's funny. Yeah, there's giving someone the benefit of the doubt versus not thoroughly reading a post (a common occurence apparantly). Unless you're really seeing the world through rose colored glasses, there was little doubt about the tone and intent of the original post as evidenced by what everyone else read. Come on, there wasn't even an attempt at veiling some sort of disgust at the LEO unless you think ignorant is an endearing term. So you actually think it was an innocent question? Wow.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:19:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: He was just doing his job w/o trying to hassle you, by the sound of it. If that's "ignorant," then I don't get it. Similar story: I was on my way home from the BRC. I drove 2 1/2 hours, was within 3 miles of my house and I see a very large snapping turtle crossing I-72. Bad odds for a 50 y/o turtle. I manage to dodge the turtle, but I am pulling a heavy trailer, so it takes me a couple hundred yards to stop. I tear ass back to him, waving traffic to the other lane. I get him, jog back to my truck, trying not to get "chunked." He is very aggressive, even for a snapper. Bad day, I guess. Anyway, I just made it to my truck, turn around, and here's a County Sheriff coming to a stop, lights flashing. CRAP!! I have the tailgate/topper open with my .50 BMG caliber rifle lying right on top, plain as day. This could get interesting. He is friendly as can be, just wanted to make sure everything was okay, checked out the turtle, said it didn't look very grateful for the "rescue," left me alone when he found out all was well. He did not check my DL, insurance certificate, or FOID card, when a 66" rifle case was plainly visible. In Illinois. Was he "ignorant?" I think not. [:)]
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For Illinois that's pretty good. After seeing my FOID I had one cop tell me owning a gun "isn't a good idea" (one obviously well indoctrinated young cop) and one gung-ho cop used it as an excuse to search my vehicle. Needless to say, I no longer keep my FOID behind my DL. On the other hand, about 14 yrs ago I was working construction. We were building new homes in some ex-cornfields. Not far from the end of a not yet developed cul-de-sac was an old unused quarry. We had gone shooting there a couple of times, but apparently houses had been getting closer and we may have been having a bit more fun that day than usual. Apparently someone who had recently relocated from a more "suburban" location reported gunfire to the police. A local guy appeared at the rim of the quarry accompanied by a county guy with a shotgun. I suggested to our friends that we set our weapons down and back away, which we did. I wasn't about to make any dumb moves. Apparently we were more worried than the cops because one said something like, "yes, set down your weapons", almost as an after-thought. They came down and said they had received reports of gunfire. They saw our stuff and asked if we were survivalists. I had recently turned 18 and ran out and bought my first rifle, my beloved CAR-15. My buddy had an AK. (Man things were a lot cheaper then!) Anyway, they were actually pretty cool about the whole thing. They checked out the SN's on the rifles to make sure they weren't stolen or anything (we probably did seem kind of young for such exotic toys) and then they sent us on our way saying we were on private property.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:20:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 1:25:44 PM EDT by WhiskeyBravo]
I know he thinks the sheriff should have lied to him and used the excuse to see if he could bust them for federal weapon law violations. The point is, the sheriff did not do that, he told the truth, and that, apparently, is a problem.
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I never said I thought it was a problem asshole. And I never said the Sheriff wasn't a good guy. I simply asked for other's opinions on whether they Sheriff was cognizant of the federal laws. I asked because this was my 1st encounter with the authorities with my AR present. I'm not looking for something to bitch about. Don't sit there and put words in my mouth and portray me as a deadbeat. I have a life, so piss off. Edited to say same to you Wad Jerk. Not everyone has cruel intentions and who are you to judge me anyway.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:31:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 1:41:10 PM EDT by CITADELGRAD87]
He never really looked at it. Was that out of the ordinary? Was this guy ignorant?
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Just putting your OWN words back down your throat, cupcake. "Deadbeat" is not something I implied. Your deductive reasoning is as faulty as your ability to communicate. The Board, collectively, has a running beef with LEOs, YOU, YOU WHISKEYBRAVO, questioned whether or not the sheriff was "ignorant" (again, YOUR WORD) for not doing something more than he said he would do. Before you flip out and claim I'm twisting your words, maybe you should read ALL the replies, every one, even lkydog, agreed YOU WERE BITCHING ABOUT NOT BEING HASSLED. Lay off the personal insults and take a writing course if you can't get your point across. Edited to add, I, personally, will judge anyone, any time. "Who are you to judge me?" is the mantra of failed self esteem courses, and can be used to justify any aberrant behavior. Get a differnt rallying cry.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:34:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WhiskeyBravo: I never said I thought it was a problem asshole. And I never said the Sheriff wasn't a good guy. I simply asked for other's opinions on whether they Sheriff was cognizant of the federal laws.
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Dude, I've RE-read your post a couple of times now. Excluding just about everyone elses interpretation of it, I read it as a partially veiled stab at LEO. If you seriously and honestly didn't intend that interpretation, you really need to rethink your wording. Remember, these are just words on a screen. Anyone who reads it can only draw from your words. It's not the same as you asking someone personally. (P.S. Yes I'm ignoring the Wadjerk comment in the hopes of reaching some sort of understanding).
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:39:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 1:50:48 PM EDT by WhiskeyBravo]
The Board, collectively, has a running beef with LEOs, YOU, YOU WHISKEYBRAVO, questioned whether or not the sheriff was "ignorant" (again, YOUR WORD) for not doing something more than he said he would do.
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Your looking at the term ignorant as a negative term. Ignorant implies that someone doesn't understand a particular process and that they need to learn that process. When someone's ignorant about something that doesn't mean they're an asshole like yourself. My father retired as a Constable. I was an LE in the Air Force. I have no problem with law enforcement. Now I have nothing more to say to you.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:42:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 2:15:51 PM EDT by Wadman]
As far as being judged, any time you post something on an open forum, you open yourself to judging by anyone who reads it, whether it be a well thought out idea/question or an impulsive brain fart. You know what? You don't need to apologize. Just consider this a lesson on how easily mere words on a screen can be interpreted other than you intended. And your question was answered in no uncertain terms.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:43:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wadman: As far as being judged, any time you post something on an open forum, you open yourself to judging by anyone who reads it, whether it be a well thought out idea/question or an impulsive brain fart.
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I apologize to you.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 1:47:59 PM EDT by CITADELGRAD87]
Originally Posted By WhiskeyBravo: Your looking at the term ignorant as a negative term. Ignorant implies that someone doesn't understand a particular process and that they need to learn that process. When someone's ignorant about something that doesn't mean they're an asshole like yourself.
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Again, you have trouble expressing yourself. I can only read what you typed. If that is not what you meant, that is not my fault, you are just not capable of getting your point across. Since YOU started the personal attacks and refuse to discuss this civilly,
Your looking...
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It's [b]You're[/b], not [b]your[/b], idiot. But I guess you're "ignorant," huh?
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:46:09 PM EDT
Hey Wadmeupandthrowmeaway, I hate to double team. But if you can dish it out, you can take it, right? I think you are a victim of monkey see, monkey do! One guy objected to the ignorant comment and everybody's train of thought focused there. Good thing I was here to correct you huh? No need to thank me. I will go know. My work here is done :)
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:58:56 PM EDT
Lckydevl Citadel, Point taken. I just took it as a question about the Sheriff's knowledge. It could be taken as a slam though.
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Before you flip out and claim I'm twisting your words, maybe you should read ALL the replies, every one, even lkydog, agreed YOU WERE BITCHING ABOUT NOT BEING HASSLED
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Excuse me but my work here is not finished after all. It seems citondown is guilty of twisting words while claiming not to be twisting words. It seems comprehension has run amuck. My statement merely stated it could be seen in that light. Not that I agreed at all. It seems the habit of reading into what is not there is a habit on this board.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:59:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2002 2:20:52 PM EDT by Wadman]
Originally Posted By Lckydevl: Hey Wadmeupandthrowmeaway, I hate to double team. But if you can dish it out, you can take it, right? I think you are a victim of monkey see, monkey do! One guy objected to the ignorant comment and everybody's train of thought focused there. Good thing I was here to correct you huh? No need to thank me. I will go know. My work here is done :)
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"I will go know"??? Uh, okay. Monkey see, monkey do? That's really weak. And here I thought you were the "benefit of the doubt" boy. Not. More like "doublespeak boy."
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 2:04:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lckydevl:
Lckydevl Citadel, Point taken. I just took it as a question about the Sheriff's knowledge. It could be taken as a slam though.
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Before you flip out and claim I'm twisting your words, maybe you should read ALL the replies, every one, even lkydog, agreed YOU WERE BITCHING ABOUT NOT BEING HASSLED
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Excuse me but my work here is not finished after all. It seems citondown is guilty of twisting words while claiming not to be twisting words. It seems comprehension has run amuck. My statement merely stated it could be seen in that light. Not that I agreed at all. It seems the habit of reading into what is not there is a habit on this board.
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Let me get this striaght: Your M/O is 1) A lame assed "insulting" permutation of the offender's handle 2) A non-sequitor.
Point taken. I just took it as a question about the Sheriff's knowledge. It could be taken as a slam though
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You SAID it could be taken that way. Where I come from, agreeing that it could be taken that way IS AGREEING IT COULD BE TAKEN THAT WAY. Please, oh enlightened one, go "know"[sic] Moron.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 2:55:06 PM EDT
I would be happy to enlighten if requested. When I replied "It could be taken as a slam." I was merely acknowledging his train of thought. In a non-confrontational mood (unlike the present one) I left it at that. Maybe you would like even further explanation? OK Add this to the end of the above quote. " But only if you were trying to read between the lines and have a negative attitude." Or " but why when it could just as easily be seen as someone wanting to know if this officer should have actually inspected his weapon closer." In the first few replys his question was answered with most LEO's dont know or care about ATF or FED situations. I totally agree with that observation. There is no way that a local LEO can stay up on his areas events and keep up with the ever-changing laws of the ATF and federal govt. I take back the name jumbling. There was no need for it. But I think you jumped the gun a little bit on the ignorant comment. If someone said I was ignorant when it came to disassmembling the AK-47 I would have to agree. No hard feelings.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 3:01:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lckydevl: No hard feelings.
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None indeed. Friday afternoon of a long week, I suppose. See you on Monday. Sorry about the "moron" crack.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 3:35:09 PM EDT
I don't know what you mean by "inspect". Why do you think he mad the comment about how much the rifle cost?? To see your reaction, and to let you know he knew what he was looking at? When you were opening the chamber up how do you know he wasn't checking to see if the selector said "auto" or if there were "extra" machining marks on the lower reciever? How do you know he didn't look to see if there was a byo lug on it? Or perhaps he knew that there were no State/Local laws against pre/post ban configuration that he could enforce anyway so he wasn't going to get into it. Or perhaps he felt a pinned vs. un-pinned buttstock makes a much difference as the slide color on a weapon. Maybe he wasn't ignorant at all, but took in the situation much quicker then you realized. ie responsible use of weapons, no harm-no foul. Have a nice day sorry for bothering you. Also maybe he didn't want to put his hands on your property, unless he had a LEGAL reason to do so. It's called respecting other people, thier property.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 3:54:43 PM EDT
Oly, I think WhiskyBravo has had his question fully answered and dissected by the previous page of replies.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:09:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lckydevl:
Lckydevl Citadel, Point taken. I just took it as a question about the Sheriff's knowledge. It could be taken as a slam though.
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Before you flip out and claim I'm twisting your words, maybe you should read ALL the replies, every one, even lkydog, agreed YOU WERE BITCHING ABOUT NOT BEING HASSLED
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Excuse me but my work here is not finished after all. It seems citondown is guilty of twisting words while claiming not to be twisting words. It seems comprehension has run amuck. My statement merely stated it could be seen in that light. Not that I agreed at all. It seems the habit of reading into what is not there is a habit on this board.
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24 posts..we got an expert here guys...
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 5:54:44 PM EDT
Hmmm... I can see I got the wrong idea. I thought you were playing chess with a LEO.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 5:34:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 5:36:51 AM EDT by AZCOP]
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Local cops usually neither know or care about federal gun laws.
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Know part: Wrong. Care Part: Spot On !!!!! Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 6:05:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 6:05:51 AM EDT by Lckydevl]
liberty86 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By Lckydevl: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lckydevl Citadel, Point taken. I just took it as a question about the Sheriff's knowledge. It could be taken as a slam though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Before you flip out and claim I'm twisting your words, maybe you should read ALL the replies, every one, even lkydog, agreed YOU WERE BITCHING ABOUT NOT BEING HASSLED -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excuse me but my work here is not finished after all. It seems citondown is guilty of twisting words while claiming not to be twisting words. It seems comprehension has run amuck. My statement merely stated it could be seen in that light. Not that I agreed at all. It seems the habit of reading into what is not there is a habit on this board. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24 posts..we got an expert here guys...
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Almost 40 years old, 4 years College, 2 grown stepchildren = Common Sense It's not called being an expert, just plain old common sense. You folks are real quick to attack, huh? Are you guys LEO's also? I've noticed a tendency for some of you guys to gang up on others when another LEO's actions are questioned. Nice tactical maneuver but go play somewhere else. Your boring me and this thread needs to end.
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