[ARCHIVED THREAD] - To CNC machine operators... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/21/2011 12:20:57 PM EDT
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To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not.
Anyway, will you PLEASE, please, stop crashing the machines... It's getting old. When the B-axis table is locked up and the machine is done fucked up, please don't tell me in broken English you don't know what happened. We will find the part you crashed. We can see chunks of broken bit material under the ways and in the chip auger. When the part we find stuffed behind a locker a week later has a HUGE fucking hole in it that is not on the drawing and we track down the serial number to your shift, don't play dumb. We have caught you, pony the fuck up and buy us some lunch or you may loose you job. I know that sounds kind of assholeish to blackmale some farmer turned guy who just cost us $65,000 and a week worth of tear down and rebuild. But fuck it.. I don't care anymore. When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch please don't grab the jog handle turn it up to 100x and spin it like, well, 'It SPINS!" You have at your hands 1.5 million dollars of machine, another 100k or so of tools in the magazine and some pretty expensive parts. be fucking careful! In the last 4 weeks we have had to rebuild 2 Mori Saki B-axis tables, 1 Makino X-axis ball screw servo and table, and 3 Haas 5th axis turn tables. In all well over $150,000 in repairs. At least they have yet to damage a spindle on the machines in good long time. $300K min. cost to fix along with waiting for the parts to be made in Japan and shipped here. That is all for now, will see what you fucked up tomorrow morning and continue. Nate D |
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Quoted:
To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not. Well, foot in mouth on the first sentence...awesome! ETA: Oops...did not know it was a rant against the illegals your company hired. 
BTW...what the hell are you making with tooling that requires a .000003 " tolerance ???? 5/10,000 is usually good enough for the folks I know...but 3/1,000,000 ? That's insane. |
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Quoted: To those who hire button pushers and complain they aren't machinists....  Our button masher quit, so I had to switch from the 51' monarch to a 2010 Okuma. I kinda like mashing buttons now . I just wish someone else would write the damn programs so I could have more rest time.  But I agree with you, someone that has only pushed buttons should call themselves an operator. If your ass can not calculate SFM-RPM, or figure out how to keep a part from chattering, then you are just an operator, and not a machinist. I did hear that Okuma has a chatter reduction program, when my boss told me this I called bullshit, I thought he was yanking my leg, and figured it was some mythological tool like a chain stretcher, or a bucket of prop wash. Apparently they wrote some little code to vary your RPMs to combat harmonics building up in the machine. Its cheaper to just toggle the rpm % though  |
I know who he's talking about. The ones who put the rapid and feed rate overrides at 150% so they can get done faster and go sit on their ass. The ones that say "I don't know what happened. It just wrecked" because they don't know about the command log. 
ETA: The override switches just have a BCD output. I rewired them so that over 100%, they went slower.
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Quoted: I know who he's talking about. The ones who put the rapid and feed rate overrides at 150% so they can get done faster and go sit on their ass. The ones that say "I don't know what happened. It just wrecked" because they don't know about the command log. The bastard that I am running now has a keylogger. And if I get done early, I am tearing down a setup, building a new setup, and writing a new program. |
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Quoted: To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not. In the last 4 weeks we have had to rebuild 2 Mori Saki B-axis tables, 1 Makino X-axis ball screw servo and table, and 3 Haas 5th axis turn tables. In all well over $150,000 in repairs. Nate D Sometimes you get what you pay for. Has anyone done the math to see what hiring real live machinists would have saved you? I worked in a shop that had a production cell that they tried to staff with people from temp agencies. The only time that cell made money was when we stuck actual machinists on it, who were paid at least twice-3x what the temp workers were, but often management tends to fail to grasp the "big" picture. |
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Quoted: Why don't you guys fire them and hire some half way competent guys then? I'd like to get into metal fabrication/machining myself some day. It is hard to find machinists worth a damn. We hired a guy with 38 years experience, the Owner vetted for him, and he is pretty much worthless when it comes to long shaft work. He wants to run everything between centers, and bitches constantly because we are doing it wrong. It has worked with 1 center and a 4 jaw chuck for 20 years, and he fails to grasp this. He is averaging .004" runout, and I am tired of indicating his parts, and fixing his fuckups. |
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Depending on the shop, it can cut both ways.
Working for a stupid pecker-licker in Boulder CO once. Got my ass reamed for running less that 100% on the override with a program I did not write. 20 minutes of red faced screaming about always 100% OK, fine. The very next morning @ 0500 I turned the power on to the Makino, spun the selector to home all & 100%. Pushed the go button with the Z about 10 inches from home. LOL. It overshot both limit switches, and went to the end at 100%. Broke the casting, destroyed the bearing & trashed the ballscrew. When mr asshole got in @ 0700, he was stunned. Started screaming. "You can't home that machine cold @ 100%!" Oh, ok. Is there a sign or tag on it that says that? Yesterday you were screaming about running warm up cycles and overriding feed rates... . |
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To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not. In the last 4 weeks we have had to rebuild 2 Mori Saki B-axis tables, 1 Makino X-axis ball screw servo and table, and 3 Haas 5th axis turn tables. In all well over $150,000 in repairs. Nate D Sometimes you get what you pay for. Has anyone done the math to see what hiring real live machinists would have saved you? I worked in a shop that had a production cell that they tried to staff with people from temp agencies. The only time that cell made money was when we stuck actual machinists on it, who were paid at least twice-3x what the temp workers were, but often management tends to fail to grasp the "big" picture. They have and know full well that they are costing themselves money. Now that the company has gone public and 3/4 of the ecec's are gone they are moving into the machine shop side of things and starting to clean them up. Just starting. Just adding a air gauge or go / no go gauge to the station for QC costs them extra pay. In the past they didn't want to do that. Now that they are building super chargers with 3-4 hour cycle times per part they are quickly learning that the QC department can't table gauge everything and they are going to have to do it machine side. Taking delivery of a new Makino this week, have a pool going on how fast they can fuck it up. I got week 3. Kind of fun to know that the rednecks and NASCAR guys bolting this stuff on there cars have no idea it comes down to "No speky da enGrisH!" |
I had a guy stand there straight faced and tell me "If I can't run a machine at 100% every time then I'm not running the machine!"     
ETA; I just love following guys like this. Inserts all mashed and chipped to hell, wads of birdnest on the tool bodies, Parts look like they were bored with a grinding tool, yeah, good stuff, fond memories. |
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Why don't you guys fire them and hire some half way competent guys then? I'd like to get into metal fabrication/machining myself some day. It is hard to find machinists worth a damn. We hired a guy with 38 years experience, the Owner vetted for him, and he is pretty much worthless when it comes to long shaft work. He wants to run everything between centers, and bitches constantly because we are doing it wrong. It has worked with 1 center and a 4 jaw chuck for 20 years, and he fails to grasp this. He is averaging .004" runout, and I am tired of indicating his parts, and fixing his fuckups. My very good friends shop does propeller shaft work. Been around almost 100 years now and can handle outboards to container ships. The old guys there that can true a shaft are true artist. No shit, pure skill, art. When you can take a 20' long 12" dia. shaft and get it back to .000" With nothing more than a #1 torch tip you have become a god. Have learned more from those guys over the years then any school I have ever been to. And all of them run 4-jaws and steady rests and maybe a center. Never centers. |
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I have been the button pusher. But I never damaged anything. That's because I'm patient and don't care about the feed rate override. I leave it set where the machinist wants it. He's in charge, I just do as he says. It's what EMPLOYEES are supposed to do. It helps that I have a significant amount of manual machining experience. Not a LOT, but enough to understand the process, feed and speeds, materials and tool selection and characteristics, etc. I have a good grasp of the basics. Here's a tip for you: If you hire someone who does not speak English as his NATIVE tongue, well, first, I think YOU are part of the problem, and second, if you MUST do that, don't put him in charge of running anything more expensive and complicated than the vacuum cleaner. You'll be better off. CJ |
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Quoted: Depending on the shop, it can cut both ways. Working for a stupid pecker-licker in Boulder CO once. Got my ass reamed for running less that 100% on the override with a program I did not write. 20 minutes of red faced screaming about always 100% OK, fine. The very next morning @ 0500 I turned the power on to the Makino, spun the selector to home all & 100%. Pushed the go button with the Z about 10 inches from home. LOL. It overshot both limit switches, and went to the end at 100%. Broke the casting, destroyed the bearing & trashed the ballscrew. When mr asshole got in @ 0700, he was stunned. Started screaming. "You can't home that machine cold @ 100%!" Oh, ok. Is there a sign or tag on it that says that? Yesterday you were screaming about running warm up cycles and overriding feed rates... . I single block programs that I have not written. Maybe that guy learned his lesson. |
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Quoted: I don't think that means what you think it means.To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not. Anyway, will you PLEASE, please, stop crashing the machines... It's getting old. When the B-axis table is locked up and the machine is done fucked up, please don't tell me in broken English you don't know what happened. We will find the part you crashed. We can see chunks of broken bit material under the ways and in the chip auger. When the part we find stuffed behind a locker a week later has a HUGE fucking hole in it that is not on the drawing and we track down the serial number to your shift, don't play dumb. We have caught you, pony the fuck up and buy us some lunch or you may loose you job. I know that sounds kind of assholeish to blackmale some farmer turned guy who just cost us $65,000 and a week worth of tear down and rebuild. But fuck it.. I don't care anymore. When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch please don't grab the jog handle turn it up to 100x and spin it like, well, 'It SPINS!" You have at your hands 1.5 million dollars of machine, another 100k or so of tools in the magazine and some pretty expensive parts. be fucking careful! In the last 4 weeks we have had to rebuild 2 Mori Saki B-axis tables, 1 Makino X-axis ball screw servo and table, and 3 Haas 5th axis turn tables. In all well over $150,000 in repairs. At least they have yet to damage a spindle on the machines in good long time. $300K min. cost to fix along with waiting for the parts to be made in Japan and shipped here. That is all for now, will see what you fucked up tomorrow morning and continue. Nate D |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why don't you guys fire them and hire some half way competent guys then? I'd like to get into metal fabrication/machining myself some day. It is hard to find machinists worth a damn. We hired a guy with 38 years experience, the Owner vetted for him, and he is pretty much worthless when it comes to long shaft work. He wants to run everything between centers, and bitches constantly because we are doing it wrong. It has worked with 1 center and a 4 jaw chuck for 20 years, and he fails to grasp this. He is averaging .004" runout, and I am tired of indicating his parts, and fixing his fuckups. My very good friends shop does propeller shaft work. Been around almost 100 years now and can handle outboards to container ships. The old guys there that can true a shaft are true artist. No shit, pure skill, art. When you can take a 20' long 12" dia. shaft and get it back to .000" With nothing more than a #1 torch tip you have become a god. Have learned more from those guys over the years then any school I have ever been to. And all of them run 4-jaws and steady rests and maybe a center. Never centers. I can run shafts up to about 25 inches without a steady rest, after that I tend to use one. I have tried showing this guy that running the part at 60 rpms, and taping it true is the best way, and he wants to rotate the chuck by hand, and try to tap it out that way. I have seen him spend 6 hours indicating a part, and the Supervisor just kept quite so that he could prove a point. |
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I have no part or say in the hiring process. They get what they pay for.
I am just here to fix the machines. And lately the repair shop has been busy. I have to say that Mori's are fucking sweet machines. the one B-axis table we just did had never been apart in almost 20 years. Running nothing but Mobil oil and quality coolants the ways are mirrors, the inside of the table was fucking spotless and after we got the main gear off the CME and back in specs everything went back in with ZERO need for grinding or refitting. Twenty years of work and it was all still within 0.01 Mil !! We do work with 95% Al being a race car part Mfg, but thats still impressive! |
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If you show me how to do it YOUR way, I'll do it YOUR way. I lack the experience necessary to try to out-think you in this field. Why do people who know very little insist on trying to re-engineer the job? Leave that to the guy who designed the part, chose the material, chose the tooling, designed the fixturing, and wrote the program. He should know better than the button pusher, ya think? When I was working for this guy as the button pusher, I asked questions and tried to turn it into a learning experience. Hell, I even downloaded and printed out the entire Fadal programmer's manual just for a learning exercise! But I never tried to edit any of his programs. |
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Quoted: I have seen this error before. People want to skip from thousandths of an inch, to millionths of an inch. I generaly deal with +/- .00025" tolerances. Not sure why, but people seem to think it goes from tenths, to hundredths, to thousandths, to millionths. They skip ten thousandths, and hundred thousandths. Not quite sure what you would measure three millionths with.Quoted: When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch... Ok. This is where you lost me. Are you saying that 0.01 mm = .000003 inch? 0.01 mm = about .000400 inch. |
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I have seen this error before. People want to skip from thousandths of an inch, to millionths of an inch. I generaly deal with +/- .00025" tolerances. Not sure why, but people seem to think it goes from tenths, to hundredths, to thousandths, to millionths. They skip ten thousandths, and hundred thousandths. Not quite sure what you would measure three millionths with.
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When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch... Ok. This is where you lost me. Are you saying that 0.01 mm = .000003 inch? 0.01 mm = about .000400 inch. we run between 20 and 50 micron metric up and down. NASA and the aerospace industry are the only folks I know who use tighter. |
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I am a machinist, I do operate CNC machines and I do know exactly what the OP is saying. The button pusher won't" Loose" his job, he will in fact, lose it. ETA; I work with one other skilled machinist and a whole bunch of button pushers. I think he was making light of the broken english. |
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So you are complaining that the guys you hired to run your $1.5 million dollar machines cant even speak English? what do you pay them minimum wage. I wonder whats wrong with our economy asshole. Reading is fundamental. So you have job security in this economy? cheer up. Quoted before I could correct my mistake. My bad... |
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Depending on the shop, it can cut both ways. Working for a stupid pecker-licker in Boulder CO once. Got my ass reamed for running less that 100% on the override with a program I did not write. 20 minutes of red faced screaming about always 100% OK, fine. The very next morning @ 0500 I turned the power on to the Makino, spun the selector to home all & 100%. Pushed the go button with the Z about 10 inches from home. LOL. It overshot both limit switches, and went to the end at 100%. Broke the casting, destroyed the bearing & trashed the ballscrew. When mr asshole got in @ 0700, he was stunned. Started screaming. "You can't home that machine cold @ 100%!" Oh, ok. Is there a sign or tag on it that says that? Yesterday you were screaming about running warm up cycles and overriding feed rates... . I single block programs that I have not written. Maybe that guy learned his lesson. I doubt he ever got it. I got reamed for running a 4 axis job about 35% o the first part - I don't like to leave dwell mark pecker tracks, so I will run reduced rates with my thumb on "the button". Single block is safer, but in this case I felt ok at reduced rates. Last I heard, he went bankrupt. I was only there a few months. . |
Que?
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I have seen this error before. People want to skip from thousandths of an inch, to millionths of an inch. I generaly deal with +/- .00025" tolerances. Not sure why, but people seem to think it goes from tenths, to hundredths, to thousandths, to millionths. They skip ten thousandths, and hundred thousandths. Not quite sure what you would measure three millionths with.
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When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch... Ok. This is where you lost me. Are you saying that 0.01 mm = .000003 inch? 0.01 mm = about .000400 inch. Ahhh... that makes perfect sense. I work in interferometry and holography where measurements really are taken on the order of the wavelength of light used (in the neighborhood of 500 nm = 0.5 microns = 0.000020"). It probably also doesn't help that we use the term 'mils' to refer to thousandths of an inch. |
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I have seen this error before. People want to skip from thousandths of an inch, to millionths of an inch. I generaly deal with +/- .00025" tolerances. Not sure why, but people seem to think it goes from tenths, to hundredths, to thousandths, to millionths. They skip ten thousandths, and hundred thousandths. Not quite sure what you would measure three millionths with.
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When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch... Ok. This is where you lost me. Are you saying that 0.01 mm = .000003 inch? 0.01 mm = about .000400 inch. Sorry, different machines different tolerances. Could have made that sentence a little more clear. As others have pointed out my spelling and grammar is around the 5th grade level.
ETA- The CME tables are held to the sub micron level in some of the parts. granted the guys who run them are usually highly skilled machinist they still do run them into shit. |
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We had a guy play with the parameters in the program and crashed a 4 axis Mori Milling machine
The computers lock up and won't allow any movement at all. We had to call Mori and get the code to unlock it The guy that did it just laughed it off, and did it one more time about 4 months later He made the mistake of bitching about the program to the plant manager................said plant manager escorted him out of the building!! |
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We had a guy play with the parameters in the program and crashed a 4 axis Mori Milling machine The computers lock up and won't allow any movement at all. We had to call Mori and get the code to unlock it The guy that did it just laughed it off, and did it one more time about 4 months later He made the mistake of bitching about the program to the plant manager................said plant manager escorted him out of the building!! We put key operated lockouts on the machines to prevent this kind of nonsense. |
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To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not. Anyway, will you PLEASE, please, stop crashing the machines... It's getting old. When the B-axis table is locked up and the machine is done fucked up, please don't tell me in broken English you don't know what happened. We will find the part you crashed. We can see chunks of broken bit material under the ways and in the chip auger. When the part we find stuffed behind a locker a week later has a HUGE fucking hole in it that is not on the drawing and we track down the serial number to your shift, don't play dumb. We have caught you, pony the fuck up and buy us some lunch or you may loose you job. I know that sounds kind of assholeish to blackmale some farmer turned guy who just cost us $65,000 and a week worth of tear down and rebuild. But fuck it.. I don't care anymore. When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch please don't grab the jog handle turn it up to 100x and spin it like, well, 'It SPINS!" You have at your hands 1.5 million dollars of machine, another 100k or so of tools in the magazine and some pretty expensive parts. be fucking careful! In the last 4 weeks we have had to rebuild 2 Mori Saki B-axis tables, 1 Makino X-axis ball screw servo and table, and 3 Haas 5th axis turn tables. In all well over $150,000 in repairs. At least they have yet to damage a spindle on the machines in good long time. $300K min. cost to fix along with waiting for the parts to be made in Japan and shipped here. That is all for now, will see what you fucked up tomorrow morning and continue. Nate D Instead of "blackmale"ing these people, why not fire them? Why the fuck were they hired in the first place? In this economy, companies have absolutely no excuse to complain that their workers are incompetent shitheads. There are millions of good employees who are out of work through no fault of their own. If your company is too fucking cheap to pay them a decent wage, then tell management that $150,000 in four weeks is $1,950,000 in 52 weeks, which would pay a dozen people a $40,000/year wage plus benefits, with money left over for a corporate Christmas party and some executive bonuses. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have seen this error before. People want to skip from thousandths of an inch, to millionths of an inch. I generaly deal with +/- .00025" tolerances. Not sure why, but people seem to think it goes from tenths, to hundredths, to thousandths, to millionths. They skip ten thousandths, and hundred thousandths. Not quite sure what you would measure three millionths with.Quoted: When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch... Ok. This is where you lost me. Are you saying that 0.01 mm = .000003 inch? 0.01 mm = about .000400 inch. we run between 20 and 50 micron metric up and down. NASA and the aerospace industry are the only folks I know who use tighter. The tightest tolerance I have had to hit was about +/- 3 micron parallelism on a manual lathe for an arbour for a sykes gear generator that we had to make to fit a large internal spline. The spline was about 20 inches on the ID, so any little varyance in cutter runout was going to makea big difference in the pitch diameter of the spline. |
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Quoted: This is on a lathe, YMMV.Quoted: Quoted: Depending on the shop, it can cut both ways. Working for a stupid pecker-licker in Boulder CO once. Got my ass reamed for running less that 100% on the override with a program I did not write. 20 minutes of red faced screaming about always 100% OK, fine. The very next morning @ 0500 I turned the power on to the Makino, spun the selector to home all & 100%. Pushed the go button with the Z about 10 inches from home. LOL. It overshot both limit switches, and went to the end at 100%. Broke the casting, destroyed the bearing & trashed the ballscrew. When mr asshole got in @ 0700, he was stunned. Started screaming. "You can't home that machine cold @ 100%!" Oh, ok. Is there a sign or tag on it that says that? Yesterday you were screaming about running warm up cycles and overriding feed rates... . I single block programs that I have not written. Maybe that guy learned his lesson. I doubt he ever got it. I got reamed for running a 4 axis job about 35% o the first part - I don't like to leave dwell mark pecker tracks, so I will run reduced rates with my thumb on "the button". Single block is safer, but in this case I felt ok at reduced rates. Last I heard, he went bankrupt. I was only there a few months. . I single block, with RPMs at 100, and kee my hand on the feed, while cutting I run 100% on the feed and keep a sharp eye on the target coordinates. I slow the feed down while the tool is relieving or moving near the chuck or tailstock. I write my programs to run at 100%, if I slow the feeds down I am going to get chatter. |
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As I said I have no part in the hiring process. I am very aware of our out of work, skilled, American workers. I was one of them up until about 5 months ago.Took 8 months to find work. I put in over 300 apps and at everyone was told I cost too much to hire or was over skilled for the job. I didn't care, I just wanted work, any work at any pay scale.
I am back at the company I am at now after leaving them about 10 years ago. Don't want to get too far into it but lets just say a few years on the race team working 100-120 hour week and not getting paid ANY overtime. This is not my first choice, this is not what I want for this country, this is doing what I can for my family. If the guy needs to get shit canned we will make it so, but getting one guy fired or even ten will not suddenly cause them to start following the rules and hiring who they / we need. |
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To those that operate CNC machines, I will withhold the term "machinist" because these guys are not. Anyway, will you PLEASE, please, stop crashing the machines... It's getting old. When the B-axis table is locked up and the machine is done fucked up, please don't tell me in broken English you don't know what happened. We will find the part you crashed. We can see chunks of broken bit material under the ways and in the chip auger. When the part we find stuffed behind a locker a week later has a HUGE fucking hole in it that is not on the drawing and we track down the serial number to your shift, don't play dumb. We have caught you, pony the fuck up and buy us some lunch or you may loose you job. I know that sounds kind of assholeish to blackmale some farmer turned guy who just cost us $65,000 and a week worth of tear down and rebuild. But fuck it.. I don't care anymore. When we have to keep about 500 parts in accuracy of 0.01 Millimeters or three MILLIONTHS of an inch please don't grab the jog handle turn it up to 100x and spin it like, well, 'It SPINS!" You have at your hands 1.5 million dollars of machine, another 100k or so of tools in the magazine and some pretty expensive parts. be fucking careful! In the last 4 weeks we have had to rebuild 2 Mori Saki B-axis tables, 1 Makino X-axis ball screw servo and table, and 3 Haas 5th axis turn tables. In all well over $150,000 in repairs. At least they have yet to damage a spindle on the machines in good long time. $300K min. cost to fix along with waiting for the parts to be made in Japan and shipped here. That is all for now, will see what you fucked up tomorrow morning and continue. Nate D That is the reason you hire CNC MACHINSTS not CNC operators.... You get what you pay for :) |
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We had a guy play with the parameters in the program and crashed a 4 axis Mori Milling machine The computers lock up and won't allow any movement at all. We had to call Mori and get the code to unlock it The guy that did it just laughed it off, and did it one more time about 4 months later He made the mistake of bitching about the program to the plant manager................said plant manager escorted him out of the building!! We put key operated lockouts on the machines to prevent this kind of nonsense. When you hand those keys over to the set up guy, that thinks he is the CNC programing wizard of all time, you have a problem!! We do the same thing with the keys to the supplies, hand every Group Leader a key. The Group Leader then goes and hangs it someplace, then tells his people, if they need anything, the key is located in such and such place. |
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When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. |
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don't tell me in broken English you don't know what happened. There's your problem. Really? Some of the best machinists I have seen have been guys from Europe.... Hell the Techs that come in to fix our hopelessly fucked stuff speak Japanese or Korean and very little english but know what they are doing. |
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When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. Most large production machines have no way of doing any kind of QC while the part is in the machine. Even the set up guys have a hard time. With pallets and even pallet changing systems the operators can be nowhere near the machine. Not saying they shouldn't learn it, just that with some machines it's just not an easy thing to do. |
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When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. Most large production machines have no way of doing any kind of QC while the part is in the machine. Even the set up guys have a hard time. With pallets and even pallet changing systems the operators can be nowhere near the machine. Not saying they shouldn't learn it, just that with some machines it's just not an easy thing to do. Uh, every machine I have ever run has an M01 optional stop and that command can be programmed in at any point of the program that you want one. |
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When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. Most large production machines have no way of doing any kind of QC while the part is in the machine. Even the set up guys have a hard time. With pallets and even pallet changing systems the operators can be nowhere near the machine. Not saying they shouldn't learn it, just that with some machines it's just not an easy thing to do. Right, I know that, but not all machine shops are running what a lot of these people consider "modern" CNC equipment. One of these kids was baffled by a hone.The look on his face when it was running was even better "You mean I have to get oil all over me!?" (Not quite, but damn near that vibe) Kind of like all the places that were cranking out A&P's in the 80's with tales of how they'd get six figure jobs in the airlines working on modern liners, only to find they should have focused on dope and fabric, tire work and magneto ignition a bit more. |
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Quoted: Exactly the same story here. I guess the local sschool teaches kids to either program, or mash buttons, or do setups, or do maintanence. I have a check list I go over every day, weekly, and monthly for lubes, and machine inspection. We are in an un-airconditioned shop so we have 100% inspection of parts done by the machinist, and double checked by the inspector. We do not do large runs, the largest I have done is 30 wrist pins. I change chuck jaws, bore out soft jaws, write the program, run the machine, maintain the machine, and do inspection. Small parts keep you hopping.When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. |
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Quoted: In all of the conversational programming I have seen, if you comment your code, it puts an M01 automaticly. If I need an inspection done before a prefinish, or finish, for size or indication, I throw in an M00.Quoted: Quoted: When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. Most large production machines have no way of doing any kind of QC while the part is in the machine. Even the set up guys have a hard time. With pallets and even pallet changing systems the operators can be nowhere near the machine. Not saying they shouldn't learn it, just that with some machines it's just not an easy thing to do. Uh, every machine I have ever run has an M01 optional stop and that command can be programmed in at any point of the program that you want one |
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Quoted:
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Most large production machines have no way of doing any kind of QC while the part is in the machine. Even the set up guys have a hard time. With pallets and even pallet changing systems the operators can be nowhere near the machine. Not saying they shouldn't learn it, just that with some machines it's just not an easy thing to do. Uh, every machine I have ever run has an M01 optional stop and that command can be programmed in at any point of the program that you want one. I knew what he meant. Met an operator who ran( I think it was) three Haas mills. Guy couldnt believe I was working in a shop where I ran one lathe. And he'd never heard of a Bridgeport/Romi psychopath. He did no programming. Some guy in an office did it with FeatureMill, and programmed from the office. All this guy did was feed parts and press go. |
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Quoted:
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In all of the conversational programming I have seen, if you comment your code, it puts an M01 automaticly. If I need an inspection done before a prefinish, or finish, for size or indication, I throw in an M00.
Quoted:
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When I was still doing that kind of stuff, had some kids from the local CC come in. They were amazed that I was expected to do my own programming, and setup, as well as maintain the machine. ( old Bridgeport Powerpath) It got really interesting when I was also inspecting and de-burring those parts while it was running. Basically progged in a home, then dwell and a stop where I could do a quick chase with some Cratex and check the threads before hitting the "go" switch again. I was shocked that they weren't learning how to do that. Most large production machines have no way of doing any kind of QC while the part is in the machine. Even the set up guys have a hard time. With pallets and even pallet changing systems the operators can be nowhere near the machine. Not saying they shouldn't learn it, just that with some machines it's just not an easy thing to do. Uh, every machine I have ever run has an M01 optional stop and that command can be programmed in at any point of the program that you want one Sure you can M01 or M00 a part at any time in the program. But now get to the part to inspect it. Sometimes it's not easy. Options and lock the computer and take a risk climbing into the machine between the spindle and the pallet / part with power on or pull the pallet and in some cases have the robot get the pallet and bring the part out to the tombstone part / fixture swap out station and inspect the part. As noted, even the set up guys can have on hell of a time just getting to the part. |