Posted: 3/30/2001 9:31:04 AM EDT
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I was reading about this in Guns and Weapons....has anyone had a chance to play with this yet.....It sure looks like a sweet bullpup. For those that have not heard of it yet, it uses the .223 round. It weighs 8.2lbs, it has an overall length of thirty inches but yet has a 21.5 inch barrel, making it US legal. It uses alot of the M-16 parts and is supposed to be able to use M-16 type magazines. I wonder what this little beauty will cost??? Ilove2shoot |
| The M17s has been out for years. You can get a post-ban one for about $600. They look nice, but I've heard they have reliability problems - never shot one though, so I'm just going on what I've heard from others. They do take M16 mags, but the internals are different. |
| HAVE ONE & LOVE IT! I've had AR's, Mini 14s..tried a bunch. I still have an AR sporter with collapseable stock. The bull pup is almost two inches shorter than my Colt with the stock collapsed! Its a little heavier..but there is NO recoil with this gun. It can be shot one handed and, if necessary, used seated in a car...It does require optics as the stock sights stink. I use an ATN but recommend you buy an OKO from GarryOwen on this web site. My stock does not heat up like some have complained..but it does get a little warm. I have fired over 1,o00 rounds through this gun without the first misfire. Trigger assembly has been a source of complaints from others but it just requires getting used to. Perhaps I got one of Bushmasters better guns cause I don't have any problems and I just flat love the gun...$580 plus tax, & delivery at www.spdist.com. [:D] |
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There are a couple of recent threads on this (wihtin the last month) so try the search feature and read those. There's one in the Bushmaster forum (industry forum) that's still on the first page. I personally have an AR and an M17S. The M17S is a far better rifle IMO. It is more reliable (because of the piston-based gas system), it has a longer barrel (i.e. more fps) - without weighing more than a comparable AR (a misconception that many have), and it has MUCH better balance and handling than a regular AR. On the downside, the iron sights SUCK (you WILL need optics) and the trigger will never be better than good (don't plan to use it in match competitions). Overall, I still believe it is superior to the AR - and for less money (that you can then spend on the optics). |
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I have had the opportunity to shoot one of these on two recent occasions. After the first I was ready to go buy one, if I could find the right price. However, when I shot it the second time I tried a magazine change and realized I would need three hands to do it anywhere near quickly. Maybe I'm missing something. Is there a method to this? |
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I thought that it used at least some of the same parts as an ar but I can't find many parts in common. I wish it were easier to take apart even though I don't think I need to. It has a pretty simple design, has a good balance and is simple to clean.I haven't heard of reliability problems with it but besides the trigger I need a heat shield for the forend. I think it will be a fun gun to butcher and work on. To remove the magazine with ease look at the pictures that small arms review posted on this gun. If you want all of the sites I found on this gun then e-mail me. Which month and which magazine did you see it in Love2Shoot? Was it guns and weapons of law enforcement? When? I want to see a field report on this gun since I can't abuse this gun because it (and all evil guns)is irreplaceable where I live. I heard there was a bad review of this gun from the members of this forum. Anyone remember some of it's problems? |
| Teppe, you don't need to take the gun apart...thats the beauty of the "clean shooting" assembly. All you have to do is open it up, remove bolt and clean external surface, swab barrel...that's it. Bushmaster recommends NO further disassembly. If the heat on the stock bothers you add a neopreme sleeve. I love this little gun. I read further up that someone had problems releasing the mag. You just have to remember where the mag release is...about 8 inches south of one on an AR. When I drop a mag I use my left hand go under the stock and hit the button or use my right thumb and go down from my ear. If your using it for plinking it's fun to show off. However, unlike others, I keep mine in the trunk with five mags...and leave my Colt sporter at home as it's worth too much to get dinged up. The only mandate with the M-17 is you need optics and GaryOwen will fix you up with an OKO. Good shooting |
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I was not looking for a tack driver, I have a 10/22 and mkII for that (will be building and AR tacker in a few months hopefully). I just thought it looked cool, and might be fun to shoot at 100 yrd or less distances. I was considering a red dot for it if I get it...thanks for the replies Love2shoot |
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Just to prove that ya can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, I've had many enhacing modifications done to my M17S Among them: - shortened to 26.5"OAL (minus flash suppressor) - recrowned barrel is now ~18" - upper receiver tube ventilated with ~twentyfive .5" holes (no more hot handguard) - rails mounted on all four sides of the URT - carrying handle removed (thank Christ) - charging handle sortened & rounded (still contemplating an AR15-style handle) - returned to Bushmaster for new gasblock (d/t shortened barrel) Don't ask how much it cost.. ok; nearly $600.00 - there I said it. Oy, veh. But it was worth every penny. E-mail for beaucoup photos - I'm too cumpooter stupid to post here. 1* P3[pyro][^] |
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P3, About the new gas block, how did you decide you needed one? Did you fire it and find you had reliability problems? On another thread Kurt said no need with a shorter barrel. I bought an M17 and am going to have some work done on it, but I'm still working out the details. If you don't mind my asking, how much did Bushmaster charge? Also, have you figured out the backup iron sights riddle yet? I'm not sure I want to depend solely on batteries. THANKS |
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I agree about the sights, that's why I was asking. If you remove the carry handle and put on a rail so that your optics are not ridiculously high and mounted on something that flexes up and down, then it seems a flip up rear would work fine, but you need a front sight that either mounts on the rail and is pretty short, or attaches to the barrel and is really tall. The other possibility is using an optic or optic base with built in sights. My OKO has a very rudimentary pistol type fixed sight incorporated into its design. I have not examined them, but I think one or more of the mini ACOGS or ACOG bases has a backup iron sight, but it may just be rear sight, again, I'm not sure on this. P3 has spent a lot of time and money on his, and I'll bet he has considered a lot of things I have and a lot that I haven't. |
| AFAIK P3's M17S doesn't incorporate Iron sights. Yes, he has spent a lot of time, money and thought on his M17S, but, at least going by the pics he sent me a few months ago,he has arrived at a configuration that I have a few problems with. NP, he may dislike my configuration, as well. It's a free country. |
| Well, my M17s config. allows for adjustable/configurable USEABLE iron sights, a top rail that allows the mounting of multiple sighting devices, internal heat shielding and additional cooling vents, and a fix for the horrible OEM trigger. I will, though, borrow an idea from P3, and mount a PIC rail on the right side of the forearm for additional devices, perhaps a Sure-Fire light. No PIC rail on left side, as anything mounted on it would unnecessarily obscure my field of vision. |
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Yeah, I'm "out there," but that's another topic entirely. [:D] Sorry guys - I've been doing my tree sloth impression all day; had a loooong shift yesterday catchin' bad guys, puttin' out fires & peeling people out of wrecked cars... I laid down about 1000 and woke up to Dan Rather... I knew I needed a new gas block 'cause the damn rifle wouldn't reliably cycle with _any_ ammo - not even blanks with the blank adaptor cranked down with a wrench. Shortstroking was something that was a problem when I first got the gun (secondhand), and was only exacerbated by shortening the barrel. BUSHMASTER CHARGED ME NOTHING FOR THE FITTING OF THE NEW BLOCK AND TESTFIRING!!!!!!!!!! raf, I'm completely with ya on the neccesity of irons. The iron sight problem will be fixed when I can get my sticky glockfondlers on a goddam KMC #99051 flip-up front sight. Noone seems to have them in stock... My next mod is to investigate doing a Kurt's Kustom-like FN-FAL handle to replace the cut-down one I'm presently using. Only my idea is to mount it ~30mm rearward so that the ARMS #40 rear sight doesn't impede access to the charging handle when it's folded down. Down the road? Maybe make the vents bigger for no other reason than for taking some more weight off. The gun, while handier than an MP-5 (IMVHO, YMMV, YOMD, etc.) is still heavier than I care for. We'll see. If Palm Beach County gets a friggin' Sheriff that'll sign off, I'll consider registering the gun as a SBR and have it made even shorter. P3[pyro][^] |