[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why does the Army (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/6/2011 7:15:49 PM EDT
teach soldiers to trip the damn bolt when rodding on and off the range? Arrgghhh!!!
I had a bright yellow open bolt indicator that blocked the magwell and held the bolt to the rear. Soldier rodded me on the range and tried several times to try and trip the bolt release so the bolt would go forward. I explained to him that the weapon was unloaded <here have a looksy> and the purpose of the open bolt indicator. |
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I did it, if you do it hard enough the cleaning rod just about comes completely out and you go on to the next rifle. getting troops on and off the range as fast as possible is the key, espeically if you have Bn size element that have to qualify. you will learn this grasshopper, when you have X amount of hours and Y amount of soldiers.
BTW,why in the fuck did you bring a OBI on a military range? |
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teach soldiers to trip the damn bolt when rodding on and off the range? Arrgghhh!!!
I had a bright yellow open bolt indicator that blocked the magwell and held the bolt to the rear. Soldier rodded me on the range and tried several times to try and trip the bolt release so the bolt would go forward. I explained to him that the weapon was unloaded <here have a looksy> and the purpose of the open bolt indicator. I never had a soldier rod me off of the range it was always an NCO and you don't question their actions. |
| I'm really sorry I read this, but I have to ask if I have it straight, because none of it made much sense. Obviously they are sticking a metal rod down the bore, hopefully with an open bolt. So, if the rod hits the open bolt the chamber is obviously clear. Then they trip the bolt release to close the bolt? Why not leave it open so anybody can see it's safe? Why rod it in the first place with an open bolt? |
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If the Army had wanted you to have a bright yellow open bolt indicator –– they would have given you one!  Read the third panel on this comic: Terminal Lance I'm not a Marine, but I've got a good friend who is and sent me the link. That site is comedy gold, even if you aren't. |
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If the Army had wanted you to have a bright yellow open bolt indicator –– they would have given you one! Read the third panel on this comic: Terminal Lance I'm not a Marine, but I've got a good friend who is and sent me the link. That site is comedy gold, even if you aren't. A friend of mine who is former 3/5 sent me that and I think it's fucking hilarious. |
Nothing quite beats catching someone with a unsecured canteen while in formation and your the lucky prick behind him to give the bottom a swift kick and watch it rocket in the air. Your NCO does not appreciate that even when you explain that you were just preforming a canteen check on your battle buddy...... Chamber flag on the range.... never heard of that one 
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If the Army had wanted you to have a bright yellow open bolt indicator –– they would have given you one! Read the third panel on this comic: Terminal Lance I'm not a Marine, but I've got a good friend who is and sent me the link. That site is comedy gold, even if you aren't. A friend of mine who is former 3/5 sent me that and I think it's fucking hilarious. The one with the guy and the winning skittles had me about pissing my pants laughing. I remember those damn skittles in the MRE which had the color leaving the shell lmfao!!! Great link!! Remember trading off my skittles to the dipshits for an extra side too. |
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Quoted: Quoted: condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?  And port closed?  yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days?
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh? And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Yut! Marine Rifle Data Book |
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A rule written in blood. Back before the open bolt indicators came to the market. 236 years of tradition, unhampered by progress. George Washington's Drill Sergeants rodded the the muzzle-loading muskets and rifles to make sure no soldier had a live charge in the barrel. Instead of "no brass, no ammo drill sergeant", it was "no balls, no powder drill sergeant". Now why has it not changed? Because it has worked. Why change? |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Tyman you got pwned by a jarhead I kid my Marine Cousin. |
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Quoted: Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. we lock the bolt to the rear when getting rodded also - but there is no place for a chamber flag on a military range is what I was getting at |
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Stupid fucking flag safeties are stupid.
There's not a weapons condition for the M16 series weapon that includes a flag safety. Always used a cleaning rod at the end of the firing day on every range I've run. Also did it prior to firing to make sure no obstructed barrels or chambers. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Tyman you got pwned by a jarhead I kid my Marine Cousin. eh, we were going separate ways - he's talking about the actual rodding, I'm talking in general you wouldn't leave the range not in condition 4 - same with people who pull the trigger on an empty chamber then have to leave the weapon on fire.... doesn't work that way in my brain  |
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Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. we lock the bolt to the rear when getting rodded also - but there is no place for a chamber flag on a military range is what I was getting at 
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I did it, if you do it hard enough the cleaning rod just about comes completely out and you go on to the next rifle. getting troops on and off the range as fast as possible is the key, espeically if you have Bn size element that have to qualify. you will learn this grasshopper, when you have X amount of hours and Y amount of soldiers. BTW,why in the fuck did you bring a OBI on a military range? THIS! The soldier was thinking "where do those guys get these goofy ideas?". |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Tyman you got pwned by a jarhead I kid my Marine Cousin. Someone should read more.
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. Yes, we show an open chamber to the RSO, visually and physically check the chamber, then watch the bolt go home on an empty chamber and make a condition 4 weapon. |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. Yes, we show an open chamber to the RSO, visually and physically check the chamber, then watch the bolt go home on an empty chamber and make a condition 4 weapon. OP was asking why we got rodded off the range when he had a chamber flag. NU posted and to me, it seemed like he was already saying that's how you should be when you get off the range.....which is why I posted what I did.
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. Yes, we show an open chamber to the RSO, visually and physically check the chamber, then watch the bolt go home on an empty chamber and make a condition 4 weapon. OP was asking why we got rodded off the range when he had a chamber flag. NU posted and to me, it seemed like he was already saying that's how you should be when you get off the range.....which is why I posted what I did. I'm withya. |
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Getting rodded off the range means ejection port open and bolt locked to the rear so those in charge of the lines/range can see the rod go past the chamber to ensure 100% that the weapon is unloaded. You're not wrong but the Marines do it pretty differently than Army. Yes, we show an open chamber to the RSO, visually and physically check the chamber, then watch the bolt go home on an empty chamber and make a condition 4 weapon. OP was asking why we got rodded off the range when he had a chamber flag. NU posted and to me, it seemed like he was already saying that's how you should be when you get off the range.....which is why I posted what I did. I'm withya. You smellin what I'm cookin? 
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condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh?
And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber
Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? Tyman you got pwned by a jarhead I kid my Marine Cousin. Someone should read more. Edit It's too late tonight |
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If the Army had wanted you to have a bright yellow open bolt indicator –– they would have given you one! Read the third panel on this comic: Terminal Lance I'm not a Marine, but I've got a good friend who is and sent me the link. That site is comedy gold, even if you aren't. What ?–– you been talking to my wife? Quoted:
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If the Army had wanted you to have a bright yellow open bolt indicator –– they would have given ISSUED you one! Fixed it for ya Yah, was gonna go back and edit it but you beat me to it. |
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Here's a range horror story for ya'll:
Coming off of a M60D Aerial Gunnery range. M60D was rodded off of 'the range' the Aircraft flies back to the Airfield M60D hanging. Weapon was transported from the flight line into the Arms Room in the back of a HMMWV to be turned in. I watched a First Sergeant slam the weapon down onto the Arms Room counter onto the grip and trigger assembly (on the back of the weapon for aerial operation) and fire a 7.62X51 Tracer into the Arms Room ceiling. Talk a bout a LOUD WTF. Good thing he didn't slam it down with the muzzle pointing towards the Armorer. The Armorer would always tell us too slam our M60D down on the counter beore he would take them from then on. |
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Quoted: Stupid fucking flag safeties are stupid. There's not a weapons condition for the M16 series weapon that includes a flag safety. Always used a cleaning rod at the end of the firing day on every range I've run. Also did it prior to firing to make sure no obstructed barrels or chambers. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile That's fine for GI weapons with chrome bores and limited accuracy requirements. You'll f*** up the crown on a match rifle that way, especially with a segmented cleaning rod. The Army Marksmanship Unit didn't rod our rifles when taking classes on their range at Ft. Benning, but they did check chamber flags. |
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I wasn't taught to trip the bolt release, but when you throw the rod down the barrel while you're moving quickly to get a large group through the end of the rod pushes the bolt back and without lateral pressure on the bolt release, spring pressure moves the bolt catch to the down position. |
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Quoted: These days? It's been like that for the last 40-50 years if not longer.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: condition 4 magazine removed chamber empty bolt forward safety on ejection port cover closed because they want you to leave the range in condition 4 - not with a chamber flag in..... Bolt forward, eh? And port closed? yep, that's condition 4..... three is exactly the same but, loaded magazine two doesn't apply to the M16 service rifle one is with a loaded magazine and round in chamber Wtf are the Marines doing at ranges these days? |
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Quoted: Quoted: teach soldiers to trip the damn bolt when rodding on and off the range? Arrgghhh!!! I had a bright yellow open bolt indicator that blocked the magwell and held the bolt to the rear. Soldier rodded me on the range and tried several times to try and trip the bolt release so the bolt would go forward. I explained to him that the weapon was unloaded <here have a looksy> and the purpose of the open bolt indicator. I never had a soldier rod me off of the range it was always an NCO and you don't question their actions.  |
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teach soldiers to trip the damn bolt when rodding on and off the range? Arrgghhh!!!
I had a bright yellow open bolt indicator that blocked the magwell and held the bolt to the rear. Soldier rodded me on the range and tried several times to try and trip the bolt release so the bolt would go forward. I explained to him that the weapon was unloaded <here have a looksy> and the purpose of the open bolt indicator. I never had a soldier rod me off of the range it was always an NCO and you don't question their actions. I was a lowley Spec-4 and they made me an RO all the time. Sometimes it pays to be the "gun nerd guy". I used to love whackin' officers on the helmet with my Red/Green paddle. -Mark. |
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Quoted: Stupid fucking flag safeties are stupid. There's not a weapons condition for the M16 series weapon that includes a flag safety. Always used a cleaning rod at the end of the firing day on every range I've run. Also did it prior to firing to make sure no obstructed barrels or chambers. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yeah, but we had to have them broken down shotgun style over our shoulder, BCG out, so that range safety could drop a section of cleaning rod in at the muzzle, and catch it as it came out of the breech. ..and I was issued a flag safety.... a very long time ago.... |
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I often conduct ranges with my unit. I do not rod-on and off the range. Either myself or my range safety NCO's conduct visual inspection of the chamber at a clearing barrel, prior to allowing the soldier to leave the range. The cleaning rod is the old army way. It is no longer taught. That being said, OP, your actions were wrong. Being a soldier means you should follow the directions of the people in charge. Going off and doing your own thing while on a weapons range is not a recipe for success. Do as you are told, not as you think you should do, especially when live ammuntion is involved. ETA- You weren't being unsafe at all, that's not the issue. You were just being the guy who thinks he knows better than everybody else and did his own thing. ETA2- Basically, do it the way you are told until you are in charge, then make the people you are in charge of do it the way you want. |
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If the Army had wanted you to have a bright yellow open bolt indicator –– they would have given you one! Read the third panel on this comic: Terminal Lance I'm not a Marine, but I've got a good friend who is and sent me the link. That site is comedy gold, even if you aren't. A friend of mine who is former 3/5 sent me that and I think it's fucking hilarious. The one with the guy and the winning skittles had me about pissing my pants laughing. I remember those damn skittles in the MRE which had the color leaving the shell lmfao!!! Great link!! Remember trading off my skittles to the dipshits for an extra side too. MRE's Have skittles !!??!! Shit I thought Chicclets were awesome ! |