[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .380 question (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 2/17/2011 12:11:42 PM EDT
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I was thinking about a new pocket pistol, and the Ruger LCP has been on my mind. But it got me to wondering, is it even worth shooting someone if all you've got is a .380? Might this not just piss them off and provoke them into beating the shit out of you? Is it really better to fight back with a .380 than to just had over your wallet? |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches.
Little Gun and The Box O' Truth |
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I was thinking about a new pocket pistol, and the Ruger LCP has been on my mind. But it got me to wondering, is it even worth shooting someone if all you've got is a .380? Might this not just piss them off and provoke them into beating the shit out of you? Is it really better to fight back with a .380 than to just had over your wallet? Put on your boxing gloves, hand your best buddy a .380, and run the experiment. Let us know how it goes. |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. that's interesting. is that a test you've done? |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. I would not have guessed that, but often times simple intuition is wrong. I would have said water was similar to ballistics gelatin given that BG is 90% water by mass. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. that's interesting. is that a test you've done? Billmanweh meet Old Painless. Old Painless Billmanweh |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. that's interesting. is that a test you've done? I was told about that correlation by Dr. Roberts in a conversation that we had. And, as I compare my results in water with his ballistics gelatin tests, we see, time and time again, that it works out very closely. |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. that's interesting. is that a test you've done? Billmanweh meet Old Painless. Old Painless Billmanweh I've met him in person, and now that I know how big he is, I am more respectful. 
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I was thinking about a new pocket pistol, and the Ruger LCP has been on my mind. But it got me to wondering, is it even worth shooting someone if all you've got is a .380? Might this not just piss them off and provoke them into beating the shit out of you? Is it really better to fight back with a .380 than to just had over your wallet? Put on your boxing gloves, hand your best buddy a .380, and run the experiment. Let us know how it goes. I'll pay for the gloves and supply the ammo and SIG 232 if video of this is put up on youtube. Lemme know who your FFL is and I'll get it sent out.Would you rather be shot with Magtech 95 gr FMJ or Hornady 90 gr JHPs? |
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.380 is a great little round. The biggest you can get in a blowback. There are some nice sleek handguns for that round because of it. Remington, Sig, Walther, HK, Mauser, Browning
Stopping power is a relative thing. Most .380 packages are size appropriate for what they deliver. Much more so than full sized handguns in 9mm. |
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I used to carry an AMT .380 Backup as my backup weapon. I am surprised the "if it ain't .45 don't bother" crowd
hasn't stepped in. A .380 is going to get anyone's attention. You may not be able to drop a Rhino with it, but you are going to give yourself an "OUT". Besides a well placed shot with a .22 will kill. I second the "fighting off an attacker after he has been perforated a couple of times. |
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Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth is there some correlation between water and ballistic gelatin? Yes there is. Approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. So, 24 inches of penetration in water equals about 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. that's interesting. is that a test you've done? Dr Roberts has done some correlation testing and has posted on it here and in other forums. He also noted you'll get 'optimal' expansion in water vs Gel or Flesh, but penetration data can be correlated as O_P has done. |
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I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? The very best .38 Spec +P loads do slightly outperform the .any available .380acp. Though with a lower capacity, slower reload and significantly greater recoil. |
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.380 is a great little round. The biggest you can get in a blowback. There are some nice sleek handguns for that round because of it. Remington, Sig, Walther, HK, Mauser, Browning Stopping power is a relative thing. Most .380 packages are size appropriate for what they deliver. Much more so than full sized handguns in 9mm. Ever seen a high-point? .45ACP blowback, rofl. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I wouldn't want to take a .380 round in the noggin or the chest. There are no varying degrees of dead. FWIW is the smallest cal you can CHL in Texas. Really? I was uanaware that some states regulated caliber in that way. I think that the Texas State Legislature is unaware of that little tidbit as well. |
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I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? 158grn as opposed to 90grn at about the same velocity,thats some fancy math you have there. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? The very best .38 Spec +P loads do slightly outperform the .any available .380acp. Though with a lower capacity, slower reload and significantly greater recoil. And a much bigger bulge in your pocket. There are some pants where I just can't get away with sticking my 642 in the pocket. |
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I wouldn't want to take a .380 round in the noggin or the chest. There are no varying degrees of dead. FWIW is the smallest cal you can CHL in Texas. Texas CHL statutes have no restrictions on caliber you can carry, just that it must be a handgun. There is a restriction that you can't shoot anything smaller than .32 when taking the shooting portion of the CHL course, but you can carry .17HMR if you like. |
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I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? 158grn as opposed to 90grn at about the same velocity,thats some fancy math you have there. The best .38Spec +p ammo is not 158Gn. 135Gn GHDHP or 110Gn Barnes. |
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I would not have guessed that, but often times simple intuition is wrong. I would have said water was similar to ballistics gelatin given that BG is 90% water by mass. Yes, you can build yourself a "Fackler Box" in order to test bullet penetration and expansion. I cannot remember if the ratio difference between Ballistic Gel and Water is 4/9 or 5/9. The wife unit likes her P230 and 90gr Hydra-Shok loads. |
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I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? The very best .38 Spec +P loads do slightly outperform the .any available .380acp. Though with a lower capacity, slower reload and significantly greater recoil. And a much bigger bulge in your pocket. There are some pants where I just can't get away with sticking my 642 in the pocket. I agree 100% My J-FRame is too heavy for my basketball shorts and too big for my board shorts. |
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I wouldn't want to take a .380 round in the noggin or the chest. There are no varying degrees of dead. FWIW is the smallest cal you can CHL in Texas. Really? I was uanaware that some states regulated caliber in that way. Not exactly correct. You must use at least a .380 caliber handgun for the test. After you pass and get your license, you can carry anything you like. |
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You might want to check this link:
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm |
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I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? 158grn as opposed to 90grn at about the same velocity,thats some fancy math you have there. The best .38Spec +p ammo is not 158Gn. 135Gn GHDHP or 110Gn Barnes. Do not forget the new (October) 130gr Ranger Bonded .38 Special +P loads. A very solid choice in a 2" to 3" .38 wheelgun. |
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Quoted: Some rounds from the .380 will make the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches. Little Gun and The Box O' Truth So, do you think that given the fact that the expansion of the .380 was unremarkable, it would be better to go with ball ammo in order to get better penetration? |
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I feel better with a J frame with heavy .38's,but I don't want to be shot with a .380. So you feel better with something that outputs nearly the exact same amount of energy? How does that work out? 158grn as opposed to 90grn at about the same velocity,thats some fancy math you have there. The best .38Spec +p ammo is not 158Gn. 135Gn GHDHP or 110Gn Barnes. Do not forget the new (October) 130gr Ranger Bonded .38 Special +P loads. A very solid choice in a 2" to 3" .38 wheelgun. Do you have a link to any testing of clothed geletin? Is this the PDX1 or something else? |