Posted: 2/7/2011 6:22:22 PM EDT
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Were you of age to watch it unfold? What were your thoughts?
I am watching a special involving press conferences. Watching this account, makes it look like Regan and Bush violated a lot of trust and it is hard to imagine them "coming back" from that whole mess. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I am more interested in how the general public saw and experienced it as it happened. Without hindsight. I was too young to remember. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You have to remember the media/press hated Reagan with the fire of a thousand suns. Take the hate for GWB and then remember that libs controlled all media back then. And they hated Reagans guts. |
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I personally thought Regan was a piece of shit.
How does a low assed Colonel start something like this with out any knowledge from the higher up's. Regan conviently had memory loss or he was in to alzheimers like many had accused him of. I believe Regan got caught with his Dick in his hand and threw olly under the bus to save his ass. Olly wasn't no Angel either he fucked so other missions to try and keep the ball rolling in his court also. |
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I remember it well. I remember the Commie-sympathizer DemocRAT politicians and the loyal, patriotic, dutiful Marine Lt. Colonel Oliver North who committed a "felony" or two in order to do what was RIGHT. Fuck Democrats––damn them to Commie hell!  I used to work for a man flew guns to S. America for the Contras. He was paid in cash and paid us all in cash. He had his own private airport as well as a hangar full of planes of every shape and size. |
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Read "Treason" by Ann Coulter.
It explains 80 years of the Democrats rooting for the other side. If I remember correctly, Liberals prevented the U.S. from sending arms and aid to the Contras. (The anti-commies) Senators and congressmen loved the Sandinistas, who now had control of the government (The Commies). Didn't a bunch of them travel down there to commiserate with the Commies? Liberals will side with oppression every time, over freedom from oppression. |
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Quoted: Were you of age to watch it unfold? What were your thoughts? I am watching a special involving press conferences. Watching this account, makes it look like Regan and Bush violated a lot of trust and it is hard to imagine them "coming back" from that whole mess. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I just finished watching REAGAN on HBO. Pretty insightful. I think a majority of the country felt that Reagan did the wrong thing for the right reason. John |
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Reagan allowed his administration to make a deal with the devil. It was the right thing to do. Oliver North did his duty. He knew from the start that he would be a fall guy. He accepted his role. Dawn Fawn Hall was a loyal aid to North and a piece of ass. It seems that just about everyone involved was a true believer and understood the consequences of being exposed. They closed ranks and protected the President (mostly).
I was a year or so off of active duty with the USMC and Lt. Col. North made me proud. |
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The most information I ever got on this was from the American Dad episode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juxm4P4fnq8 It's kind of sad, I know. |
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Read "Treason" by Ann Coulter. It explains 80 years of the Democrats rooting for the other side. If I remember correctly, Liberals prevented the U.S. from sending arms and aid to the Contras. (The anti-commies) Senators and congressmen loved the Sandinistas, who now had control of the government (The Commies). Didn't a bunch of them travel down there to commiserate with the Commies? Liberals will side with oppression every time, over freedom from oppression. All of that still doesn't mitigate the rule of law, or the responsibilities of the president & military personnel. North testified under oath that, if the president had literally ordered him to go in a corner & stand on his head, that it was his duty to do so.  Nice to know some people will just do 'whatever [they're] told'. I'm sure Reagan's 'memory loss' defense has become gold in criminal defense circles.
Reagan had his moments, but I won't lionize any politician, no matter how much I might agree with them. They're human, & they have access to unusual power in those circles, so they're corruptable. |
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Quoted: I personally thought Regan was a piece of shit. How does a low assed Colonel start something like this with out any knowledge from the higher up's. Regan conviently had memory loss or he was in to alzheimers like many had accused him of. I believe Regan got caught with his Dick in his hand and threw olly under the bus to save his ass. Olly wasn't no Angel either he fucked so other missions to try and keep the ball rolling in his court also. Mr. Senator, I can not recall at this time.  |
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Quoted: Quoted: Read "Treason" by Ann Coulter. It explains 80 years of the Democrats rooting for the other side. If I remember correctly, Liberals prevented the U.S. from sending arms and aid to the Contras. (The anti-commies) Senators and congressmen loved the Sandinistas, who now had control of the government (The Commies). Didn't a bunch of them travel down there to commiserate with the Commies? Liberals will side with oppression every time, over freedom from oppression. All of that still doesn't mitigate the rule of law, or the responsibilities of the president & military personnel. Sometimes you have to spill a little Constitutional milk in order to save the American apple pie. |
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Quoted: The most information I ever got on this was from the American Dad episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juxm4P4fnq8 It's kind of sad, I know. Actually, that pretty much sums it up except that it was engine parts for Iranian F-14's and not missiles. John |
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Quoted: I personally thought Regan was a piece of shit. How does a low assed Colonel start something like this with out any knowledge from the higher up's. Regan conviently had memory loss or he was in to alzheimers like many had accused him of. I believe Regan got caught with his Dick in his hand and threw olly under the bus to save his ass. Olly wasn't no Angel either he fucked so other missions to try and keep the ball rolling in his court also. I wouldn't call him a piece of shit, but surely a bumbler who'd break any law for convenience. The rest I agree with. |
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I remember that we needed to help our guy in Nicaragua, Anti-Communist (and POS) Somoza. So we financed it by selling arms to our most hated enemy at the time, Iran, which was being run by Islamic Extremist (and POS) Khomeni. He needed the weapons because he was at war with our guy in Iraq, Anti-Communist (and POS) Saddam Hussein. It proved to be impossible not to get stuck holding the shitty end of this stick, because it did not have a non-shitty end. |
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Read "Treason" by Ann Coulter. It explains 80 years of the Democrats rooting for the other side. If I remember correctly, Liberals prevented the U.S. from sending arms and aid to the Contras. (The anti-commies) Senators and congressmen loved the Sandinistas, who now had control of the government (The Commies). Didn't a bunch of them travel down there to commiserate with the Commies? Liberals will side with oppression every time, over freedom from oppression. All of that still doesn't mitigate the rule of law, or the responsibilities of the president & military personnel. Sometimes you have to spill a little Constitutional milk in order to save the American apple pie. I want you to keep that phrase fresh in your mind next time you complain about anything Obama or the Democrats do that you think is unconstitutional. |
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I am more interested in how the general public saw and experienced it as it happened. Without hindsight. I was too young to remember. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You have to remember the media/press hated Reagan with the fire of a thousand suns. Take the hate for GWB and then remember that libs controlled all media back then. And they hated Reagans guts. Doesn't change that he actually did things that were illegal against US policy, got on camera and looked people in the eyes and said he WASN'T doing those things (trading arms for hostages). and then get back in front of the cameras and say, "well yeah we were." How the hell did that look in real time? How did it feel? I am imagining if barry got up and did the same thing. We'd be calling for his head. Did Ronald get a free pass from the repubs? Did he get called on it by you and your friends? In the end, we won and the ruskies lost. I guess that's all that really matters. He did what he felt he had to. But to stand up there and lie. It kinda ruins the whole notion of America for me. It fractures the innocence I have in my mind about 'good and bad.' Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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CIA running cocaine into Mena Airport while Clinton got paid to look the other way to raise cash to fund the Contras without the knowledge of the American people or Congress's approval.
What's there not to love about that? Then after Reagan gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, he and his bobble-head wife concoct a "War" on drugs as moral posturing to divert attention from the fact that his administration has flooded the streets of America's cities with said cocaine leading to a critical erosion of the constitution and the militarization of the nation's municipal police forces? That's the best part. 
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Sometimes you have to spill a little Constitutional milk in order to save the American apple pie. I want you to keep that phrase fresh in your mind next time you complain about anything Obama or the Democrats do that you think is unconstitutional.[/quote] Exactly, how I felt when I watched this special. Now I know it could be a liberal spin on the events. But Reagan got up there and lied in his own words. Was there outrage from the conservatives? If not, why not? It's sheer hypocrisy to tolerate that kind of shit only when it benefits your group. I was naïve to think that we were the good guys who followed the rules even when no one was looking. It's disheartening to me. I shouldn't be shocked, but I am. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Give Mark Levin a call some night and find out the true story. i heard him on friday's show talking about that, and i must say... Levin should run for president. i love that man. and his entire point about the iran contra thing was that no laws were broken, and no one was charged with anything. |
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Reagan allowed his administration to make a deal with the devil. It was the right thing to do. Oliver North did his duty. He knew from the start that he would be a fall guy. He accepted his role. Dawn Fawn Hall was a loyal aid to North and a piece of ass. It seems that just about everyone involved was a true believer and understood the consequences of being exposed. They closed ranks and protected the President (mostly). I was a year or so off of active duty with the USMC and Lt. Col. North made me proud. This. North was my hero at the time. He was prepared to go down to protect his CIC. |
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What the political battles of those years really seemed to be about was––who REALLY controlled the foreign policy of the United States––the Executive branch via Presidential directive or the United States Congress, through the power vested in them in the control of the national purse via appropriations. If Congress didn't authorize something, there was no money allocated for it and therefore it could not happen––in theory. The allegations of CIA trafficing cocaine would have been an offshoot of this struggle.
I recall watching Oliver North (on television) tell the committee that his goal with "The Enterprise" was to create a self-sustaining, off-the-shelf paramilitary capability which was beyond Congressional control or oversight. I was absolutely astounded––and it was like no one else even understood what the fuck he had just said. He was talking about a private paramilitary force unaccountable to the American people and tasked to do whatever the fuck someone in power wanted––all of it running on privately generate funds. Wow. Another thing that factors heavily into the whole convoluted web of double-dealing, hypocracy and deceit was the situation in Beirut. Iran was waging war by proxy against the US with Hezbollah––and Hezbollah had kidnapped the CIA station chief, William Buckley, and CIA was desperately working to get him back. He was apparently tortured to death in captivity. Money, arms––whatever got them traction. In VEIL, Woodward noted how astounded Casey was when he realized what could be accomplished with (to him, as Director of CI) inconsequential amounts of cash-money. ––Eight_Ring |
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While at the time I supported it ( in fact,my parents supported Ollie so much that he called them personally to thank them for contributions to his defense fund. I can't recall his lawyer's name for certain Brendan Sullivan?,but he called them as well) , I think we need to look at some of the long term ramifications of what happened:
It emboldened terrorists and most specifically Iran and Iranian backed groups. They learned that the US does indeed bargain with terrorists and can be bent across the table. I strongly believe that the lack of real retribution for the barracks bombing,selling arms to Iran,failing to pummel Libya for Lockerbie all gave OBL the idea that we wouldn't take very harsh action after 9/11. Of course,this is hindsight and we simply didn't think that such a thing could ever happen here and using funds to support the Contras sure seemed like a swell idea. |
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Read this.............
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297142018&sr=8-1-fkmr0 Then decide, great book..... a little insite on the real coporate liasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man |
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Sometimes you have to spill a little Constitutional milk in order to save the American apple pie. (snip)...I was naïve to think that we were the good guys who followed the rules even when no one was looking. It's disheartening to me. I shouldn't be shocked, but I am. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Welcome to the grown-up world, I guess. Inre: Foreign Affairs and Covert Ops––It's all a LOT more complex than the simple narrative good-guy/bad-guy story line trotted out by the media––the "real story" is NEVER actually even framed, and the American people are never even well-versed enough to understand what the fuck is really going on in the first place. I'm not saying it's a good thing––I'm just saying that is how it is. Yes. President Reagan did things which were illegal. He waged a war in Central America contrary to the will of the American people and without Congressional approval and is (in my opinion) a war criminal. But he is also one of the greatest American Presidents to have ever held office––in the grimmest patch of days we now call the cold war, in which most people expected the world to be destroyed by nuclear annihilation, he rebuilt American morale from it's lowest ebb since Valley Forge AND took down the Soviet Union without firing a shot. There were big stakes. He broke the rules. History gave him a pass. Now compare him Clinton––who also apparently gets a pass (!). Clinton suborned perjury to cover up the fact that a twenty-something year old girl sucked his cock in the Oval Office. Not exactly in the same league, are they? I dunno––that's just how I see it. ––Eight_Ring ETA: Inre: the weapons that were sold to Iran––I think it was Henry Kissinger who said of the Iran-Iraq war: "It's a shame they can't BOTH lose..." Israel had a national security interest in knocking out Iraqi armor, so it could never be used against them in a future conflict. They want TOW's? Done. The components for the Hawk anti-aircraft missiles were (as I understand it––somebody check me if I'm wrong) unreliable and quite possibly bogus. We were also (simultaneously) giving Iraq satellite reconnaissance photos, signals intelligence intercepts, and Chemical warfare components. We were fucking both sides hard in the ass––but hey, Caveat Emptor, babe. |
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Reagan allowed his administration to make a deal with the devil. It was the right thing to do. Oliver North did his duty. He knew from the start that he would be a fall guy. He accepted his role. Dawn Fawn Hall was a loyal aid to North and a piece of ass. It seems that just about everyone involved was a true believer and understood the consequences of being exposed. They closed ranks and protected the President (mostly). I was a year or so off of active duty with the USMC and Lt. Col. North made me proud. |
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The thing I remember was Reagans leadership.
Iran-Contra was a *real* controversy. It was a *real* problem for the Presidency and the Vice Presidency. Reagan dealt with it like a true leader. Yeah, it was a feeding-frenzy for the liberals. Yeah, they had blood in the water. But Reagan is remembered as a true American leader, even after real controversy. Clinton, on the other hand also faced controversy. But he lied, and he was impeached, and he will be rememberd for his personal failings, and his relationship with women he wasn't married to. Reagan will be remembered for wading-through controversy, and coming through with head-held-high in the end. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am more interested in how the general public saw and experienced it as it happened. Without hindsight. I was too young to remember. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You have to remember the media/press hated Reagan with the fire of a thousand suns. Take the hate for GWB and then remember that libs controlled all media back then. And they hated Reagans guts. Doesn't change that he actually did things that were illegal against US policy, got on camera and looked people in the eyes and said he WASN'T doing those things (trading arms for hostages). and then get back in front of the cameras and say, "well yeah we were." How the hell did that look in real time? How did it feel? I am imagining if barry got up and did the same thing. We'd be calling for his head. Did Ronald get a free pass from the repubs? Did he get called on it by you and your friends? In the end, we won and the ruskies lost. I guess that's all that really matters. He did what he felt he had to. But to stand up there and lie. It kinda ruins the whole notion of America for me. It fractures the innocence I have in my mind about 'good and bad.' Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The group it benefits was the free world/West and American national security. When liberals disregard laws it's to foist their deranged leftist/progressive policy preferences on the American public that largely doesn't want them. Reagan's secret war in Afghanistan was popular and supported by Democrats, but for some reason the war against the Sandanistas, another Soviet-backed communist regime, wasn't. Reagan was being consistent in his war against communism. The Democrats weren't and were capriciously blocking aid to the Contras and effectively helping the enemies of the USA. If a branch of the government is basically shielding enemies of the US, is the President who is charged with protecting the US obliged to accede to that and let it continue? Is the President charged with strictly following legalisms or protecting the long-term security of the nation? |
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The most information I ever got on this was from the American Dad episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juxm4P4fnq8 It's kind of sad, I know. Actually, that pretty much sums it up except that it was engine parts for Iranian F-14's and not missiles. John My best friend was a Naval Officer on a Guided Missle Frigate in the Persan Gulf at that time. They often had Iranian F-14's doing fly by's taunting them, they wondered where the Iranian's were getting parts for the Phantoms, now we know. In fact you could make a case that Ollie was supplying F-14 parts to Iran to be used against the US Navy. |
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I personally thought Regan was a piece of shit. How does a low assed Colonel start something like this with out any knowledge from the higher up's. Regan conviently had memory loss or he was in to alzheimers like many had accused him of. I believe Regan got caught with his Dick in his hand and threw olly under the bus to save his ass. Olly wasn't no Angel either he fucked so other missions to try and keep the ball rolling in his court also. 
I'll let the rest of GD actually respond to this. |
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They broke the law.
Bottom line. If any one of us did the same we would be locked away. But they held the power, and lets not forget they were "our" guys, so it was OK. Not. Ollie North, not acting under the command of the USMC, gets caught in some shady shit and can't jump into uniform fast enough. Hiding behind his uniform was pretty scummy in my mind because it was the same uniform I was wearing at the time. |
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Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
They broke the law. Bottom line. If any one of us did the same we would be locked away. But they held the power, and lets not forget they were "our" guys, so it was OK. Not. Ollie North, not acting under the command of the USMC, gets caught in some shady shit and can't jump into uniform fast enough. Hiding behind his uniform was pretty scummy in my mind because it was the same uniform I was wearing at the time. I choose to view the entire thing through the prism of having our government taken over by Communists (Democrats), and the administration doing what was necessary to act in OUR (patriotic Americans) best interest. YMMV, of course. 
Along the lines of having guns completely banned––I wouldn't turn mine in. That would make me a "law breaker." So be it. |
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Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
They broke the law. Bottom line. If any one of us did the same we would be locked away. But they held the power, and lets not forget they were "our" guys, so it was OK. Not. Ollie North, not acting under the command of the USMC, gets caught in some shady shit and can't jump into uniform fast enough. Hiding behind his uniform was pretty scummy in my mind because it was the same uniform I was wearing at the time. So much fail in this thread I don't know where to begin but the statement above is shear lunacy and does not take into account the world history at the time. We saw the politicization of foreign policy by communist sympathizers led by Senator Kennedy who actively sided with the Soviet Union. My boss - Elliot Abrams - was convicted over this usurpation of foreign policy by the congress. None of you idiots that have derided the Regan policy in the Iran Contra affair have yet to address the East German, Bugarian and Soviet presence in support of the FMLN in El Salvador and in clear violation of long standing American foreign policy. |
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[...East German, Bugarian and Soviet presence in support of the FMLN in El Salvador and i... SOTG-SM–– I'd be curious as your sources on that? Are you saying there were actually Warsaw Pact personnel on the ground advising? It just strikes me as being a bit risky. I do recall reading the White Paper in which it was alleged, but I had thought it was pretty well de-bunked. I'm not totally skeptical inre: foreign personnel, because I know a guy who told me that during the November offensive he saw Arabs––I'm guessing most likely PLO––accompanying the G's. (This was in San Francisco Gotera, Morazan). ––Eight_Ring |
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[...East German, Bugarian and Soviet presence in support of the FMLN in El Salvador and i... SOTG-SM–– I'd be curious as your sources on that? Are you saying there were actually Warsaw Pact personnel on the ground advising? It just strikes me as being a bit risky. I do recall reading the White Paper in which it was alleged, but I had thought it was pretty well de-bunked. I'm not totally skeptical inre: foreign personnel, because I know a guy who told me that during the November offensive he saw Arabs––I'm guessing most likely PLO––accompanying the G's. (This was in San Francisco Gotera, Morazan). ––Eight_Ring The answer is in my post. |
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...None of you idiots...have yet to address the East German, Bugarian and Soviet presence in support of the FMLN in El Salvador and in clear violation of long standing American foreign policy. Why WOULD we address it? As far as I know, no compelling evidence was ever made publicly available––if it existed I would have expected that it would have helped sway public opinion greatly. I read the White Paper. A convincing case wasn't made. You haven't directly stated as much, but I have to assume that you (on the other hand) had access to signals intelligence or other classified documentation––whereas none of the idiots in this thread (myself included) did. If you'd care to tell us about East German, Bugarian and Soviet presence in support of the FMLN in El Salvador, hey, I'm all ears. ––Eight_Ring |