Posted: 12/6/2010 8:53:12 AM EDT
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I recently bought a '95 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L 4 cylinder and 154k miles. The engine has an oil leak around the valve cover, so I pulled the cover today to replace the gasket. What I found underneath has to be the worst buildup of sludge I have ever seen on a vehicle. I mean, this is freakin' ridiculous. I also noticed there was a lot of oil buildup in the throttle body, so I am going to have to pull it to be cleaned. This thing is a damn mess, and the odd thing is, it runs great. No smoking, ticking, knocks or other noises from the engine. It just purrs along! I would guess this was from not changing the oil for a loooooong time, but I have no idea (I changed the oil as soon as I bought the jeep).
I picked this Jeep up to be my winter project, but I have no idea what to do with this sludge in the valve train. How do I proceed from here, and any advice? Thanks! 
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Oh shit, never seen one that bad.
Scrape as much out as you can, put back together and plan on several oil changes over the next couple of week. Use some cheap oil the first couple of times, hell, might want to add a bit of ATF to it when you do it. Run it, get it hot, change oil, repeat. |
| Not much can be done without dismantling the whole thing and cleaning it all up, You are probably better off just leaving it since it runs good anyways and trying to clean it without tearing it all down will just knock all that crap loose. The main thing is to make sure the drain holes that allow the oil to run back down into the sump are not so gummed up that too much oil is collecting up there instead of circulating like it should. That's kind of rare but it can happen, more on some some engine designs than others. |
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I dunno if I'd try to knock that stuff out of there without removing the heads entirely and de-greasing them; Some of that sludge could get stuck in a line or bypass or pump and really f*ck shit up.
If you really want to try and clean it out, do what the previous poster said with ATF... I'd personally run a couple cans of Seafoam through the crank case in your oil, too. |
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what would i do? i'd put the valve cover back on and go have a beer. getting that kind of sludge out would require a serious teardown. i might do several oil changes at reduced intervals for the first little while, but if the thing's running this is a good case to just leave well-enough alone.
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I thought that the generally accepted wisdom here was that there's nothing you can do short of a tear down and parts cleaning. To do it right ? That's about it . 
A chunk of sludge could stick a lifter and hammer the cam lobe , plug a push-rod and wipe out a rocker assembly , smoke a bearing , etc,etc. The filter 'SHOULD' catch the stuff , but we dont live in a perfect world . By-pass valve could stick open and render the filter useless . Lots of little passageways that could get clogged up if that happens . The old 2.5 "Iron Duke" is a tough little motor ( except the problems with cyl-heads cracking) , but nothing is indestructible. |
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If you really want to try and clean it out, do what the previous poster said with ATF... I'd personally run a couple cans of Seafoam through the crank case in your oil, too.
Is Sea Foam a good idea at this point? Should I simply replace the valve cover, throw in some Sea Foam and ATF, and run it for a little while? Then maybe change the oil, and repeat as necessary? |
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If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Yeah, but surely this isn't an issue that can be ignored for much longer! Ok then putty knife and a shop vac at the same time. Don't let any go down into the pan. Problem is the oil pan looks just like that and has a 1in layer of sludge on the bottom as well, |
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If you really want to try and clean it out, do what the previous poster said with ATF... I'd personally run a couple cans of Seafoam through the crank case in your oil, too.
Is Sea Foam a good idea at this point? Should I simply replace the valve cover, throw in some Sea Foam and ATF, and run it for a little while? Then maybe change the oil, and repeat as necessary? No, I don't think it's a good idea to try and remove the sludge unless you are willing to do a complete teardown. At the very least, the head and oil pan need to come out. |
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Quoted: If a tear down is required, how much of a "tear down" is necessary? Does this mean pulling the entire engine? Pulling just the cylinder head wouldn't be too bad of a chore on that engine, but with that much mileage the bottom end is going to need work too. Have you checked the compression? |
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You bought it for a winter project, what is the question? Of course the best thing you can do is pull the motor and do a simple rebuild. If you dont know how to do this buy a shop manual and learn, most mechanic stuff is simple you just have to get in there and do it! |
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If you really want to try and clean it out, do what the previous poster said with ATF... I'd personally run a couple cans of Seafoam through the crank case in your oil, too.
Is Sea Foam a good idea at this point? Should I simply replace the valve cover, throw in some Sea Foam and ATF, and run it for a little while? Then maybe change the oil, and repeat as necessary? Seafoam and ATF ain't gonna do a damn thing for you at this point. Either leave it be or take the head and valve cover to a DIY car wash and clean off all of the sludge with the high pressure wash. After that hose the parts down with WD40 so they don't rust (it helps displace the water too) and re-assemble them with new gaskets. I know this probably sounds silly, but I've seen it done and the results surprised even me. |
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Go get your self a short section of thin walled 1/2 tubing about a 10" long and tape it into the end of your a shop vac hose and start carefully scraping the sludge away. This way you can control the particles as you create them, keeping them from going where you don't want them.
Proceed slowly and carefully and pay special attention to the holes around the pushrods and to the drainback holes in the head. Use a thin bladed screwdriver to scrape the hard to get places and to keep the vacuum tube clear. As far the oily throttle body is concerned, check that the crankcase evacuation line, a vacuum line that travels from the crankcase or valve cover to the intake manifold, throttle body air filter, is properly shielded from splash oil on the end that connects to the engine. After reassembly start the engine and add a sludge dissolving product such as CD2 and follow the directions to the letter. Do not rev the engine or drive it whole the product is in. This will help dissolve any particles of the sludge that may collect in your oil pump pick up screen from clogging it. After the steps in the directions have been met. Change your oil and replace with the proper viscosity synthetic oil. The synthetic will help to further remove any sludge that is left. Considering this, expect to change the oil yet again after a short period of time. |
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Oh shit, never seen one that bad. Scrape as much out as you can, put back together and plan on several oil changes over the next couple of week. Use some cheap oil the first couple of times, hell, might want to add a bit of ATF to it when you do it. Run it, get it hot, change oil, repeat. ^ I would follow this advice.^ He works on and maintains expensive vehicles at his shop, if I remember correctly. And, it sounds like the poster above me knows what he's talking about, too. |
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If a tear down is required, how much of a "tear down" is necessary? Does this mean pulling the entire engine? I'd just run her . Start looking for another motor to rebuild ......one that wasnt neglected as this one was . Seriously , it will probably take more to properly rebuild yours than its worth . At least with another candidate that was taken care of , you would probably get away with not resizeing rods and grinding the crank. A valve job and boring/honing the block is going to pretty-much be a given . Or just roll the dice and tear this one down . Stay away from the mass-rebuilders and their cheap- re-built crate motors . |
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Go get your self a short section of thin walled 1/2 tubing about a 10" long and tape it into the end of your a shop vac hose and start carefully scraping the sludge away. This way you can control the particles as you create them, keeping them from going where you don't want them. Proceed slowly and carefully and pay special attention to the holes around the pushrods and to the drainback holes in the head. Use a thin bladed screwdriver to scrape the hard to get places and to keep the vacuum tube clear. As far the oily throttle body is concerned, check that the crankcase evacuation line, a vacuum line tha travels from the crankcase or valve cover to the intake manifold, throttle body air filter, is properly shielded from splash oil on the end that connects to the engine. After reassembly start the engine and add a sludge dissolving product such as CD2 and follow the directions to the letter. Do not rev the engine or drive it whiole the product is in. This will help dissolve any particles of the sludge that may collect in your oil pump pick up screen from clogging it. After the steps in the directions have been met. Change your oil and replace with the proper viscosity synthetic oil. The synthetic will help to further remove any sludge that is left. Considering this, expect to change the oil yet again. After a short period of time. Took the words right out of my mouth. |
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Go get your self a short section of thin walled 1/2 tubing about a 10" long and tape it into the end of your a shop vac hose and start carefully scraping the sludge away. This way you can control the particles as you create them, keeping them from going where you don't want them. Proceed slowly and carefully and pay special attention to the holes around the pushrods and to the drainback holes in the head. Use a thin bladed screwdriver to scrape the hard to get places and to keep the vacuum tube clear. As far the oily throttle body is concerned, check that the crankcase evacuation line, a vacuum line tha travels from the crankcase or valve cover to the intake manifold, throttle body air filter, is properly shielded from splash oil on the end that connects to the engine. After reassembly start the engine and add a sludge dissolving product such as CD2 and follow the directions to the letter. Do not rev the engine or drive it whiole the product is in. This will help dissolve any particles of the sludge that may collect in your oil pump pick up screen from clogging it. After the steps in the directions have been met. Change your oil and replace with the proper viscosity synthetic oil. The synthetic will help to further remove any sludge that is left. Considering this, expect to change the oil yet again. After a short period of time. This sounds promising, as I have an old shop vac that should be up to the task. I cleaned up the valve cover as best I could, but it still needs to be cleaned a little better. Any suggestions on the best solvent to soak the valve cover in? |
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I'll have to pick up some mineral spirits tomorrow and give it a try. I still have to decide where to go from here. I'm leaning towards pulling the top end, as this would give me some useful experience. Its just that's honestly a bit out of my league. Of course, you'll never learn anything if you don't try! Pulling the head will at least give me a chance to have a valve job done, which I'm sure wouldn't hurt.
I guess what I could do first is replace the valve cover and at least try something to dissolve/break down the sludge, if that's even possible. Decisions, decisions... |
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I know it's too late, but you should have left well-enough alone. When a vehicle has been abused for that long, well-intentioned repairs seem to do more bad than good. The good news is that you can find a good, used motor fairly cheap and easily! I would just put this one back together and run it til it breaks. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter.
The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter. The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. Does this work on obd1 emissions vehicles? If so I will do it in my Dodge. I haven't taken it but if it cleans the engine why not. Also I am thinking about doing it in my 84 Ford 460 carbed to just be sure. |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter. The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. Does this work on obd1 emissions vehicles? If so I will do it in my Dodge. I haven't taken it but if it cleans the engine why not. Also I am thinking about doing it in my 84 Ford 460 carbed to just be sure. Yes is will work. You can take a real greasy dirty part and drop in diesel fuel and you will see how good it cleans. Don't drive the crap out of it. |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter.
The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. Thanks for the suggestion. Should I go ahead and pull the oil pan to check things out before trying this treatment? |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter.
The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. Thanks for the suggestion. Should I go ahead and pull the oil pan to check things out before trying this treatment? Not a bad idea, you don't know how restricted it is already. |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter. The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. Does this work on obd1 emissions vehicles? If so I will do it in my Dodge. I haven't taken it but if it cleans the engine why not. Also I am thinking about doing it in my 84 Ford 460 carbed to just be sure. Yes is will work. You can take a real greasy dirty part and drop in diesel fuel and you will see how good it cleans. Don't drive the crap out of it. If my truck takes usually 4 quarts of oil should I just go ahead and pour 2 of my regular oil, and then 2 quarts oil right into the engine? Then with my ford that takes like 7 quarts something like 4/3? I am just pouring it right into the crank case/spot where the oil goes if its not the right term. I wanna try it but not so sure if it will mess stuff up or not. Once I do this I go ahead and change the oil and filter and and run it again in the same way, change it and then go back to normal oil types? This seems too easy I see a catch some where here. It won't eat gaskets or anything? 
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Quoted: My thoughts too.I know it's too late, but you should have left well-enough alone. When a vehicle has been abused for that long, well-intentioned repairs seem to do more bad than good. The good news is that you can find a good, used motor fairly cheap and easily! I would just put this one back together and run it til it breaks. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA-there are some cool ideas in this thread. |
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2 quarts cheap oil, 3 quarts diesel fuel. Just idle the engine, you may have to place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to get the temperature up. Run it for a couple of hours, MABEY drive it around the neighborhood but just baby it. Don't go over 2500 rpm. Do this, change the oil filter and do it again. Don't use a cheap oil filter, use a wix or name brand. You want to catch as much as you can with the filter. The diesel fuel will be fine as long as it's not straight. Don't drive the crap out of it. You will be amazed how clean it will be after a couple of times. After you do this, you will have to remove the oil pan to make sure the oil pump pick up tube is not packed with sludge. Does this work on obd1 emissions vehicles? If so I will do it in my Dodge. I haven't taken it but if it cleans the engine why not. Also I am thinking about doing it in my 84 Ford 460 carbed to just be sure. Yes is will work. You can take a real greasy dirty part and drop in diesel fuel and you will see how good it cleans. Don't drive the crap out of it. If my truck takes usually 4 quarts of oil should I just go ahead and pour 2 of my regular oil, and then 2 quarts oil right into the engine? Then with my ford that takes like 7 quarts something like 4/3? I am just pouring it right into the crank case/spot where the oil goes if its not the right term. I wanna try it but not so sure if it will mess stuff up or not. Once I do this I go ahead and change the oil and filter and and run it again in the same way, change it and then go back to normal oil types? This seems too easy I see a catch some where here. It won't eat gaskets or anything? I would only use diesel or kerosene as a "last ditch" method. The OP doesn't stand to lose much if this engine craters, because it is on it's last legs anyway. If you have a vehicle with a decent motor that has minor sludge build up, try this method. 1. Change oil/filter 2. drive the piss out of it around town (like your re-enacting the chase scene from Bullit) until you get your temps up for a little while 3. repeat Do this 2 or 3 times and you will be surprised how clean it will get. The detergents in new oil are designed to break the sludge down. |
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My thoughts too.
I know it's too late, but you should have left well-enough alone. When a vehicle has been abused for that long, well-intentioned repairs seem to do more bad than good. The good news is that you can find a good, used motor fairly cheap and easily! I would just put this one back together and run it til it breaks. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA-there are some cool ideas in this thread. I learned the hard way as a kid that "detail" washing an old vehicles engine leads to headaches! 
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| Don't run any watery degreaser crap in your oil, you will only subject the engine to improper oil and hard wear on the bearings. Tough choice, but the cheapest thing to do is to just run the thing. If you are prepared to spend money, then go for it...pull the head and have it hot tanked. |