[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN FIVE-SEVEN lethality (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 10/28/2010 5:45:16 PM EDT
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I'm starting to suffer from hand pain and am worried about my future shooting ability.
I used to shoot 357 magnums and could hit cans at 100 yards open sights with my handloads. Now their are days my 9mm Sig kinda hurts (CorBon +P). Gonna try strength exercises for my hands first to save em but I'm starting to wonder if I'll have to go to something lighter. Has anyone shot a Zombie, Yote, Bad Guy, Goat, or heard of street results with the FN 5-7 pistol. Or should I go to the types of light loads that are used in Race guns. Sure wish I simply had Jedi Master powers and could use my mental abilities to make people crap their pants and then pick them up with my mind and throw em across the room. |
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.22 Mag is in no way comparable to a 5.7mm |
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If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. An HK53 is a .223 No, it is a 5.56, and the muzzle velocities are close between it and the 55 grain 5.7 rounds that you can buy online. |
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.22 Mag is in no way comparable to a 5.7mm You are right, .22 mag is better. 
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.22 Mag is in no way comparable to a 5.7mm You are right, .22 mag is better. Beat me to it. 
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The 5.7 has a niche. Low recoil, easy to keep on target, large capacity...it's a nice pistol. The best pistol caliber for you is the one you're actually going to carry and shoot.
Brassfetcher has some gelatin reports on the 5.7 and PS90 Brassfetcher Cartridge : SS195 FMJ and SS197 ballistic tip
Firearm : FN PS90 rifle and FN 5.7 (5.7x28mm) pistol Block calibration : Depths corrected where noted (From 9.4cm @ 587 ft/sec) The SS195 and SS197 cartridges were tested from both a 5.7x28mm rifle and handgun against bare gelatin and heavily-clothed gelatin (4 layers of 14.1 ounce denim fabric) at 10' distance. Shot 1 - FN PS90 firing SS197 at bare gelatin. Shot impacted at 2054 ft/sec, penetrated to 9.6" (corrected) and was recovered at 26.9gr weight and 0.373" average diameter. Shot 2 - FN PS90 firing SS197 at heavy clothing. Shot impacted at 2063 ft/sec, penetrated to 9.2" (corrected) and was recovered at 23.2gr weight and 0.352" average diameter. Please note that the maximum penetration depth was for a small bullet fragment - the major part of the bullet penetrated to 9.0" depth (corrected). Shot 3 - FN 5.7 firing SS197 at heavy clothing. Shot impacted at 1932 ft/sec, penetrated to 10.6" (corrected) and was recovered at 25.8gr weight and 0.312" average diameter. Shot 4 - FN PS90 firing SS195 at heavy clothing. Shot impacted at 2128 ft/sec, penetrated to 9.9". Bullet tumbled at 1.2" penetration and righted itself at ~ 5.6" depth. Bullet recovered in one piece at 27.8gr weight. Shot 5 - FN 5.7 firing SS195 at heavy clothing. Shot impacted at 1999 ft/sec, penetrated to 9.3" depth with total core/jacket separation. Bullet tumbled at ~ 4.0" penetration and the core and jacket separated tracks at ~ 6.7" depth. |
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I haven't had an opportunity to fire the round, but I saw a 5.7 wound on the hand of one of the Ft Hood survivors. The entry wound was tiny but it came out about the size of a golf ball. Nasty looking wound. Personally, I wouldn't pack a 5.7 for a carry gun. I don't believe it has the hydrostatic shock that I want. |
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.22 Mag is in no way comparable to a 5.7mm You are right, .22 mag is better. Beat me to it. And a hell of a lot cheaper and plentiful. |
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I have both the FiveseveN and the PS90, I have put down large cougars with the PS90, and a couple of other varmints. The FiveseveN has killed a few larger predators as well, but as with anything else, shot placement is key.
The cartridges has it's detractors and such. But I'll give you my experience the Secret Service likes the PS90, but the the FiveseveN, is not as durable as they required. (They did not make the round count, I forgot the exact number but I believe it was 50k) The round will penetrate and is very controllable, but you are limited in ammo selection. In 15% gelatin of all things the ss195, did penetrate further than the ss192, by about 2 in. The thing is even with what I said above remember if you are involved in a bad situation you will be needling the threat to death. I was surprised outside of the gelatin the round penetrated much further than the test indicated. I shot a 130 lbs. hog out on the farm and it punched through both sides with the ss195 (the blue tip). The end of the day it is a niche weapon platform, it has its places and I think it my fit what you want, but I don't like it as a standard service sidearm. I know that when I take it L.E.O. training and shoots all want to play with both, and enjoy them. Most just don't want to spend the money on them as the AR and other handguns serves their purposes. Of course none of them have your hand problems. |
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I haven't had an opportunity to fire the round, but I saw a 5.7 wound on the hand of one of the Ft Hood survivors. The entry wound was tiny but it came out about the size of a golf ball. Nasty looking wound.
Personally, I wouldn't pack a 5.7 for a carry gun. I don't believe it has the hydrostatic shock that I want. Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but I feel the jokes about the 5.7 being underpowered should die off. Several of our brave soldiers died from that round in the atrocity of the Ft Hood shooting. |
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It's the injun, not the arrow, that matters.
Shoot someone in a critical CNS or cardiovascular zone with 5.7x28, and they will die. My advice would be to carry whatever the most powerful gun that you can effectively make excellent hits with. If the biggest gun you can practice with is the FiveSeveN, then buy some good ammo (such as Elite Ammunition loads) for it and practice a lot. I'd try to move up to 9mm if possible. But don't listen to all the fucking morons who think the weapon matters more than the shooter. Only, hits, count. And .22lr will kill someone dead if you place it right. Carry the biggest gun that you can effectively hit with, train a lot with it, and you will surpass almost everyone on the planet as a lethal threat in a gunfight. TR85. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I haven't had an opportunity to fire the round, but I saw a 5.7 wound on the hand of one of the Ft Hood survivors. The entry wound was tiny but it came out about the size of a golf ball. Nasty looking wound. Personally, I wouldn't pack a 5.7 for a carry gun. I don't believe it has the hydrostatic shock that I want. Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but I feel the jokes about the 5.7 being underpowered should die off. Several of our brave soldiers died from that round in the atrocity of the Ft Hood shooting. Someone could have done just as much damage using a .22lr at that range with that many unarmed targets. |
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It's the injun, not the arrow, that matters. Shoot someone in a critical CNS or cardiovascular zone with 5.7x28, and they will die. My advice would be to carry whatever the most powerful gun that you can effectively make excellent hits with. If the biggest gun you can practice with is the FiveSeveN, then buy some good ammo (such as Elite Ammunition loads) for it and practice a lot. I'd try to move up to 9mm if possible. But don't listen to all the fucking morons who think the weapon matters more than the shooter. Only, hits, count. And .22lr will kill someone dead if you place it right. Carry the biggest gun that you can effectively hit with, train a lot with it, and you will surpass almost everyone on the planet as a lethal threat in a gunfight. TR85. Agreed. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. An HK53 is a .223 No, it is a 5.56, and the muzzle velocities are close between it and the 55 grain 5.7 rounds that you can buy online. .223" = 5.56mm |
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any gun is better than no gun.
I have shot the FiveseveN pistol. I don't care for it due in part to the massive muzzle flash you get when you shoot. It is blinding, even in daylight. I am sure that when fired from a PS90, it isnt noticable. But man, that short barrel... |
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Not that any of you would believe your own eyes but two interesting videos.....watch both. Note that in the following video a 5.7 .....5" pistol is being compared witho a 22 mag 24" rifle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0npFXEHfeA0&feature=watch_response 5.7 pistol vs 9mm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgXK8SOpvpc&feature=watch_response |
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If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. An HK53 is a .223 No, it is a 5.56, and the muzzle velocities are close between it and the 55 grain 5.7 rounds that you can buy online. .223" = 5.56mm .224. Give it up. |
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Quoted: Quoted: According to ambiguous internet forum posts, yes it has. According to any verifiable account from a somewhat reliable source, no it has not.the 5.7 has been a dismal failure on humans post up all the successes then I would like to be educated honestly Ayood had a couple articles about failures however after Ft Hood it is exceedingly hard to find anything on the 5.7mm without it being buried in 10000 articles about FT Hood |
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Quoted: Caliber yes, cartridge noQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. An HK53 is a .223 No, it is a 5.56, and the muzzle velocities are close between it and the 55 grain 5.7 rounds that you can buy online. .223" = 5.56mm |
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Quoted: Quoted: I haven't had an opportunity to fire the round, but I saw a 5.7 wound on the hand of one of the Ft Hood survivors. The entry wound was tiny but it came out about the size of a golf ball. Nasty looking wound. Personally, I wouldn't pack a 5.7 for a carry gun. I don't believe it has the hydrostatic shock that I want. Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but I feel the jokes about the 5.7 being underpowered should die off. Several of our brave soldiers died from that round in the atrocity of the Ft Hood shooting. If that's aimed at me, I wasn't joking. I had the honor of buying that young man and his wife dinner and drinks at Ruths Chris in San Antonio. It was his first furlow from the hospital after the event. He related the entire story to me over some after dinner single-malts. Having heard a first hand account of what actually happened that day, I'm well aware of what happened to 12 of our fine troopers.  My issue is I ain't packing anything what don't have a .45 in the caliber. YMMV. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. An HK53 is a .223 No, it is a 5.56, and the muzzle velocities are close between it and the 55 grain 5.7 rounds that you can buy online. .223" = 5.56mm .224. Give it up. What are you talking about? |
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If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. An HK53 is a .223 No, it is a 5.56, and the muzzle velocities are close between it and the 55 grain 5.7 rounds that you can buy online. .223" = 5.56mm .224. Give it up. What are you talking about? He's trying to say a 5.56 chambering is different from a commercial .223 Just arguing to be superior |
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Quoted: The difference between .22 WMR pistol and 5.7x28mm pistol (with equal bullet weights and near-equal barrel lengths) is nearly 1,000 ft/s. with Elite ammo from a boutique maker FN ammo its damn near a wash and as for shooting people with it does any agency use elite ammo? |
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According to ambiguous internet forum posts, yes it has. According to any verifiable account from a somewhat reliable source, no it has not.the 5.7 has been a dismal failure on humans Bull crap. Hard research and common sense tell you that a bullet the size of a 5.56mm, but half the weight and under half the velocity, will not be an effective manstopper. The 5.7 has been a dismal failure, and if you don't do the research that is your fault. |
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Quoted: Quoted: What are you talking about? 5.56x45 is a caliber. It is distinct from .223. All three (5.56, 223, 5.7) fire .224 inch bullets. But they are not the same. What are you talking about? Your first statement was.... If you can get the 55 grain loads it would probably be OK on human sized targets. A friend of a friend carried an HK53 all over Africa, so if it worked for him it should work for you. When bringing an HK53 into the discussion .....you are comparing a 5.56 cartridge (.223) with a 5.7x28 which has nothing to do with this thread. |
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I haven't had an opportunity to fire the round, but I saw a 5.7 wound on the hand of one of the Ft Hood survivors. The entry wound was tiny but it came out about the size of a golf ball. Nasty looking wound.
Personally, I wouldn't pack a 5.7 for a carry gun. I don't believe it has the hydrostatic shock that I want. Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but I feel the jokes about the 5.7 being underpowered should die off. Several of our brave soldiers died from that round in the atrocity of the Ft Hood shooting. That kind of touchy feely crap shouldn't fly here. Emotional (liberal) arguments aside, the 5.7 is an anemic round when compared to even the 9mm. As the link above shows, the round fails to penetrate the FBI minimum of 12" on ballistic gelatin. |
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I haven't had an opportunity to fire the round, but I saw a 5.7 wound on the hand of one of the Ft Hood survivors. The entry wound was tiny but it came out about the size of a golf ball. Nasty looking wound.
Personally, I wouldn't pack a 5.7 for a carry gun. I don't believe it has the hydrostatic shock that I want. Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but I feel the jokes about the 5.7 being underpowered should die off. Several of our brave soldiers died from that round in the atrocity of the Ft Hood shooting. If that's aimed at me, I wasn't joking. I had the honor of buying that young man and his wife dinner and drinks at Ruths Chris in San Antonio. It was his first furlow from the hospital after the event. He related the entire story to me over some after dinner single-malts. Having heard a first hand account of what actually happened that day, I'm well aware of what happened to 12 of our fine troopers.
My issue is I ain't packing anything what don't have a .45 in the caliber. YMMV. We lost 13 fine souls that day.
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