In Iraq... - AR15.COM

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - In Iraq... (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 9/15/2010 4:57:18 PM EDT

How many innocent civilians have died by our bullets and bombs? I've seen numbers from 8000 to 1.6 million CIVILIANS. 8000 seems way too high for collateral damage. It's not like we carpet bomb or napalm entire cities anymore.

Posted: 9/15/2010 4:58:55 PM EDT

[#1]

I'm guessing that you already know the official number.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:00:31 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I'm guessing that you already know the official number.

No I'm hoping random arfcom surfer will pull a number out of his ass because it has to be more accurate.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:00:49 PM EDT

[#3]

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:03:05 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

Hopefully my sarcasm meter is out of adjustment. But...... really?

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:03:18 PM EDT

[#5]

Pre-Obama: 6.2 million

Now that Obie's in office: Maybe two, but purely accidental.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:04:02 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

Right. I'm gonna go with 38 innocent civilians dead.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:05:04 PM EDT

[#7]

87 civilians dead.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:07:25 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm guessing that you already know the official number.

No I'm hoping random arfcom surfer will pull a number out of his ass because it has to be more accurate.

Nope; I'm betting shenanigans,

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:07:43 PM EDT

[#9]

trolls are out heavy tonight. drive careful folks.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:08:04 PM EDT

[#10]

This woman says there were 4.4 million killed. These two bullets killed her and her husband, but they got better.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:08:35 PM EDT

[#11]

Thing is, the people over there, even if they're not our "Enemies" lie out their ass, so it's real hard to get a real figure.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:11:17 PM EDT

[#12]

Today's "civilian" is tomorrow's combatant. And vice versa.

Just saying.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:12:07 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
This woman says there were 4.4 million killed. These two bullets killed her and her husband, but they got better.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00DR976etH2wQ/610x.jpg

holy shit that's 16,000 per day killed by flying brass!

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:15:21 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
This woman says there were 4.4 million killed. These two bullets killed her and her husband, but they got better.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00DR976etH2wQ/610x.jpg

Somebody should show her and weapons work.

What she meant to say was, not those two bullets, but two bullets just like them.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:19:05 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This woman says there were 4.4 million killed. These two bullets killed her and her husband, but they got better.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00DR976etH2wQ/610x.jpg

Somebody should show her and weapons work.

What she meant to say was, not those two bullets, but two bullets just like them.

No, IIRC that was an AP report with the woman saying those bullets were the same ones that were used.

Then again, I have also seen doctored AP photos and pictures of "dead" civillians that are alive and walking in the next picture.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:20:11 PM EDT

[#16]

The high number, "1.6 million" or whatever it is now, came from a George Soros funded organization that used "sampling" to determine their number. It's not an accurate number. It's a guesstimation.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:23:55 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
The high number, "1.6 million" or whatever it is now, came from a George Soros funded organization that used "sampling" to determine their number. It's not an accurate number. It's a guesstimation.

Included in that number are all the deaths "caused by" the sanctions we put on them in 1991.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:25:13 PM EDT

[#18]

I remember when the Somalis said we killed a pregnant lady with a .50, and when we actually sent a team out to investigate it turns out she was hit by a truck, driven by skinnys.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:26:37 PM EDT

[#19]

Ok, I'm ready...

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:31:10 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

+1

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:34:11 PM EDT

[#21]

hahahaa!

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:34:44 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I remember when the Somalis said we killed a pregnant lady with a .50, and when we actually sent a team out to investigate it turns out she was hit by a truck, driven by skinnys.

That was common over there. Half of the "civilians" they claim we killed ended up being casualties of skinnys shooting at any and everything.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:41:09 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
This woman says there were 4.4 million killed. These two bullets killed her and her husband, but they got better.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00DR976etH2wQ/610x.jpg

That made me LOL. Then a ROFL.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:41:45 PM EDT

[#24]

There isn't really a way to get an accurate answer. I worked foreign claims in Tikrit for a year and we got claims all the time for civilian deaths when there were no units operating in the area the claimants described. A lot of stuff that happens from AIF, tribal violence, etc. gets turned into us as a claim against coalition forces. It's a lot of bullshit to weed through. I would guess maybe one out of fifteen to twenty claimants actually received money.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:42:29 PM EDT

[#25]

When Bush is in office: 10 million innocents killed

When Obama is in office: 1000 innocents killed.

Posted: 9/15/2010 5:59:22 PM EDT

[#26]

There is no accurate number, as stated above the Iraqi people live and die for their own. Hope this helps your research.

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:14:23 PM EDT

[#27]

realistically... id say 5kish was from the 7 years of coalition warfare (true collateral damage) while the bg's probably killed almost 100 times that on purpose.

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:15:45 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

Probably... It's hard to tell who's what over there from what I've heard from those who have been there...

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:17:07 PM EDT

[#29]

No one ever counts the insurgents.

A dead insurgent looks just like a dead civilian.

Those with axes to grind always count them as "innocent civilians".

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:32:57 PM EDT

[#30]

Americans shoot insurgent.

Insurgent's buddies collect gun and leave body.

Americans have shot civilian.

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:37:40 PM EDT

[#31]

I'm going with 13, and that's my final answer!

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:41:14 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
realistically... id say 5kish was from the 7 years of coalition warfare (true collateral damage) while the bg's probably killed almost 100 times that on purpose.

I would bet it's well south of that number.

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:43:19 PM EDT

[#33]

Not enough. They may be "civilians" but they sure as hell aren't innocent. Pray to the god of jihad, and you deserve whats coming.

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:43:37 PM EDT

[#34]

Depends on whose number you use. One month in, Rosie O'donnell said 100,000. While she was citing incredibly accurate civilian casualty numbers she also sprang on us that steel wouldn't melt.

Posted: 9/15/2010 8:31:11 PM EDT

[#35]

Who cares.Mabey when the lead is a flyin get the fuck out of the way. Don't go peekin your nosey ass around the corner. If there were a war in my town I wouldn't runnin out to the market, nor would my kids just be strolling down the street. So back to who cares.....MEH

Posted: 9/15/2010 8:39:39 PM EDT

[#36]

40 billion. There are only about 8 billion on the entire Earth, so this is quite devestating.

Posted: 9/15/2010 8:42:53 PM EDT

[#37]

Troll post?

The insurgents have no qualms detonating IEDs or engaging in firefights with Coalition forces even if Iraqi civilians are in the way.Assigning 100% blame for civilian casualties is a very tricky matter in any war. Artillery and air strikes are highly regulated in built up areas.

Posted: 9/15/2010 8:49:19 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Troll post?

The insurgents have no qualms detonating IEDs or engaging in firefights with Coalition forces even if Iraqi civilians are in the way.Assigning 100% blame for civilian casualties is a very tricky matter in any war. Artillery and air strikes are highly regulated in built up areas.

For that matter there were plenty of insurgent attacks specifically targeted toward civilians.

Posted: 9/15/2010 8:51:43 PM EDT

[#39]

who gives a damn?

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:08:23 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

Are you serious? Are you

or do you need

Get back under your rock man.

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:09:08 PM EDT

[#41]

Some, but not all.

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:10:43 PM EDT

[#42]

does it really matter? how many Germans or Japanese did we kill in WWII?

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:16:11 PM EDT

[#43]

I cannot say a number, because like everyone else who knows exactly right?

However, looking at the amount of reporters killed in Iraq kind of opens your eyes.

Killed Reporters in Iraq - Sorted by perp.

• Insurgent/other armed group action: 105 (Includes crossfire, suicide bombings, and murders.)

• U.S. fire: 16 (CPJ has not found evidence to conclude that U.S.
troops targeted journalists in these cases. Cases are
classified as crossfire.)

• Iraqi armed forces, during U.S. invasion: 3 (All are crossfire or acts of war.)

• Iraqi armed forces, post-U.S. invasion: 1 (Crossfire)

• Source unconfirmed: 14

Draw your own conclusion of who tries not to hurt Civies and who has far better ability to do so.

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:17:14 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
who gives a damn?

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:28:31 PM EDT

[#45]

Insurgent in Chinese knock-off Nike's with an RPG suddenly becomes a civilian casualty after being shot when his buddies grab the launcher and scoot back to where they hide their shit.

I'm going to say 100.

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:30:18 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
who gives a damn?

This.

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:32:41 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

First you'd have to find someone in that country that is innocent. Then you would have to prove that they are indeed civilians.

Then you'd have to prove that it was our munitions that did it, and not our UXO turned into IEDs by the jihadis.

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:39:13 PM EDT

[#48]

With nobody wearing a uniform, how the hell can you say for certain really?

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:42:34 PM EDT

[#49]

Is a civilian still a civilian if he is running around with a PKM ?
Is a civilian still a civilian if he is killed at a check point with cannon fuse and an artillary shell in his trunk?

Posted: 9/15/2010 9:43:23 PM EDT

[#50]

I knew some innocent civilians who were deliberately targeted by the muj because they worked for us.

We had locals run off of the road and then machine-gunned to bits. Some were working as a family, father and son cut down together. One guy went to buy fuses in a shop, and had his throat cut in broad daylight.

I'm sure they go on the big list of war casualties, but they died supporting something they believed in, and were killed by primitive jihadis who shouldnt be allowed to draw another breath.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - In Iraq... (Page 1 of 2)

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