[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Close the Border (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/14/2010 9:43:44 PM EDT
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NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside.....
Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" |
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Quoted: NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside..... Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" What's best for the USA, is to leave the border alone, and deal with immigration internally. Cross border trade is extremely important to us - they are a major oil supplier, and we can't be totally dependent on China for our consumer goods - Mexico provides an alternative, competing labor market (NO, making that shit here in the USA is NOT acceptable) - and as we all know, competition is good... Further, immigration itself cannot be solved by ANY border-related actions. 40% of illegal immigrants NEVER MADE AN ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING. And most of the rest would still get in - linear defenses don't work. What we SHOULD do about illegal immigration, is fix the ID fraud and illegal employment problem. That can be done administratively, with forgery-resistant ID documents, mandatory electronic verification, and employer audits... 90% of illegals would leave, if we took those sorts of measures.... Without wasting a dollar on futile border defenses, and without fucking up the economy by cutting off trade. |
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Quoted: The U.S. border should be like the Korean DMZ. Land mines, razor fences, armed guard patrolling, etc.  Ask the French how well the Maginot Line worked. The Germans went around it, over it and cut through it like butter. Walls and defenses do not keep people out. |
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Stop inviting looters (make the welfare state unavailable to anyone who is not at least Naturalized and can prove it)
Stop inviting gangsters (make domestic drugs legal to sell in the stores) Turn the public border lands on our side into austere military training facilities. Make as many areas as possible Impact Areas for weapons ranges. Send reserve and Guard units to these places for AT. Post signs at the border that indicate the Danger. The producers are welcome to come through legal points of entry. |
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Wall, build it, illegal caught get citizenship if they are sent to work on the wall until completion. Walls can not stop or prevent illegal immigration. People will go around, underneath, over it and through it. Horse shit Jethro. Give me an Israeli-style wall, with accompanying anti-tunnel obstacles, plus an adequate reaction force, and I'll stop illegal immigration by 99%. This whole wall doesn't solve things is so simplistic as to be retarded. |
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Quoted: korea is in europe now?Quoted: The U.S. border should be like the Korean DMZ. Land mines, razor fences, armed guard patrolling, etc. Ask the French how well the Maginot Line worked. The Germans went around it, over it and cut through it like butter. Walls and defenses do not keep people out.  oh, and bad comparison as the boarder fencing at current more closely resembles that line than does the korean dmz idea. had the maginot line gone all the way across, it wouldve probably faired much better |
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Quoted:
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NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside..... Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" What's best for the USA, is to leave the border alone, and deal with immigration internally. Cross border trade is extremely important to us - they are a major oil supplier, and we can't be totally dependent on China for our consumer goods - Mexico provides an alternative, competing labor market (NO, making that shit here in the USA is NOT acceptable) - and as we all know, competition is good... Further, immigration itself cannot be solved by ANY border-related actions. 40% of illegal immigrants NEVER MADE AN ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING. And most of the rest would still get in - linear defenses don't work. What we SHOULD do about illegal immigration, is fix the ID fraud and illegal employment problem. That can be done administratively, with forgery-resistant ID documents, mandatory electronic verification, and employer audits... 90% of illegals would leave, if we took those sorts of measures.... Without wasting a dollar on futile border defenses, and without fucking up the economy by cutting off trade. Of all the things Dave says, this is one I agree with. The mexicans will STILL find a way around, even if it means floating doors to Canada then going in from the top... You need to take away the REASON they are coming into the USA, which is mainly US companies willing to pay dirt cheap wages to them for "no documents"... |
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Quoted:
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NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside..... Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" What's best for the USA, is to leave the border alone, and deal with immigration internally. Cross border trade is extremely important to us - they are a major oil supplier, and we can't be totally dependent on China for our consumer goods - Mexico provides an alternative, competing labor market (NO, making that shit here in the USA is NOT acceptable) - and as we all know, competition is good... Further, immigration itself cannot be solved by ANY border-related actions. 40% of illegal immigrants NEVER MADE AN ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING. And most of the rest would still get in - linear defenses don't work. What we SHOULD do about illegal immigration, is fix the ID fraud and illegal employment problem. That can be done administratively, with forgery-resistant ID documents, mandatory electronic verification, and employer audits... 90% of illegals would leave, if we took those sorts of measures.... Without wasting a dollar on futile border defenses, and without fucking up the economy by cutting off trade. A pipe has burst in your home. Don't fix the leak, just mop up the water. Huh?
Dave - reconsider the issue needs to be attacked on as many fronts as there are. The border falls into that column. |
| Heavy military presence on the border to catch the obvious ones, quit with the goddamn nanny state handouts for everyone, anyone declaring a sanctuary city is jailed, businesses caught hiring illigals fined heavily and owners jailed in tent city style prisons in the desert, no more free medical care for anyone and everyone |
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NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside..... Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" What's best for the USA, is to leave the border alone, and deal with immigration internally. Cross border trade is extremely important to us - they are a major oil supplier, and we can't be totally dependent on China for our consumer goods - Mexico provides an alternative, competing labor market (NO, making that shit here in the USA is NOT acceptable) - and as we all know, competition is good... Further, immigration itself cannot be solved by ANY border-related actions. 40% of illegal immigrants NEVER MADE AN ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING. And most of the rest would still get in - linear defenses don't work. What we SHOULD do about illegal immigration, is fix the ID fraud and illegal employment problem. That can be done administratively, with forgery-resistant ID documents, mandatory electronic verification, and employer audits... 90% of illegals would leave, if we took those sorts of measures.... Without wasting a dollar on futile border defenses, and without fucking up the economy by cutting off trade. Of all the things Dave says, this is one I agree with. The mexicans will STILL find a way around, even if it means floating doors to Canada then going in from the top... You need to take away the REASON they are coming into the USA, which is mainly US companies willing to pay dirt cheap wages to them for "no documents"... Same here. Look at it as basic supply and demand. If there was no demand for drugs and cheap labor there would be no supply. |
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NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside..... Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" What's best for the USA, is to leave the border alone, and deal with immigration internally. Cross border trade is extremely important to us - they are a major oil supplier, and we can't be totally dependent on China for our consumer goods - Mexico provides an alternative, competing labor market (NO, making that shit here in the USA is NOT acceptable) - and as we all know, competition is good... Further, immigration itself cannot be solved by ANY border-related actions. 40% of illegal immigrants NEVER MADE AN ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING. And most of the rest would still get in - linear defenses don't work. What we SHOULD do about illegal immigration, is fix the ID fraud and illegal employment problem. That can be done administratively, with forgery-resistant ID documents, mandatory electronic verification, and employer audits... 90% of illegals would leave, if we took those sorts of measures.... Without wasting a dollar on futile border defenses, and without fucking up the economy by cutting off trade. A pipe has burst in your home. Don't fix the leak, just mop up the water. Huh?
Dave - reconsider the issue needs to be attacked on as many fronts as there are. The border falls into that column. A better example is you shit where you eat and then your surprised flies come. Rather than spending lots of money on pesticides and constantly watching for flies, just stop shitting where you eat. |
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I'm kinda with Dave on this one. I think we need to enforce laws against employers who hire illegals. They in turn will go home. If we seal the border they wont be able to go home. Then we will be economically responsible for the logistics of repatriating them. Once the problem is stabilized then we can seal the border, IMO. |
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I'm kinda with Dave on this one. I think we need to enforce laws against employers who hire illegals. They in turn will go home. If we seal the border they wont be able to go home. Then we will be economically responsible for the logistics of repatriating them. Once the problem is stabilized then we can seal the border, IMO. Not going to happen. Illegals paying into social security are propping it up and keeping the ponzi scheme from falling. |
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I dont think people are thinking this through. Mexico is one of our largest trade partners, a breakdown in trade would be disastrous for both of our economies. Im sure we'll still have authorized entry points, the rest needs to be shut down tighter than a ticks ass |
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A 'wall' wouldn't do shit. It would be a nice looking, pretty, makes us feel good thing. But it wouldn't work. And, about limiting trade, travel etc.. "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness as long as it is in CONUS" We can deal with all of this internally, remove the motivation things will slow down. |
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Further, immigration itself cannot be solved by ANY border-related actions. 40% of illegal immigrants NEVER MADE AN ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSING. And most of the rest would still get in - linear defenses don't work. Dave, Where do they come from then? And where do you get 40%? Surely you understand that if they come by boat or plane that's just as much an illegal border crossing. Also an overstay is not in the same category and in no way rises to the 40% level. |
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Mexico would destabilize The entire United States Military would have to constantly patrol the land and sea border to defend the US Nothing wrong with that, in fact, it's high time the government started to do it's constitutionally mandated duty- protect the country from invasion. REGARDLESS of what anyone says, it IS invasion. Go look up the definitions. |
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NAFTA and friendly exchanges with Obama aside..... Desperate times = Desperate measures Why not seal off the border between the US and Mexico? By "seal off", I mean treat it like a communist country (it certainly has caused us more practical damage than N Korea) No border crossings, no trade, no tourism, no tourist trips to Mexican destinations. It would solve more problems than could be listed here. It may have some negatives also, but I believe the overall benefit would be huge to the US. Please don't turn this into a racist thread. It is strictly a practical question of "What is best for the USA?" You do realize that a lot of your food and trade comes across that border both ways? Billions of dollars worth. Just as another consideration, a whole lot of Americans have relatives on the other side. Heck, lot of Americans LIVE on the other side. (Esp retirees) I predict some idiot will suggest landmines and free fire zones any second now. |
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The U.S. border should be like the Korean DMZ. Land mines, razor fences, armed guard patrolling, etc. let's mine NV first as a test case, starting with your backyard we need that border open for the many billions of dollars of goods that come from over there, whether you like it or not what would solve the problem much better would be a complete overhaul of our immigration/work-visa program (the current system is hopelessly broken) combined with ruinous penalties for employers who hire illegals and mass deportations of illegals who fail to comply with the new system |
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Wall, build it, illegal caught get citizenship if they are sent to work on the wall until completion. Walls can not stop or prevent illegal immigration. People will go around, underneath, over it and through it. TONS more water crossings around San Diego. They speculate it's due to the fence and increased land patrols. |
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In Obama's economy Mexico is one of the few customers we have left. We pretty much shut down most of our operations yesterday. When the dipshit in chief announced his plans to give tax breaks to businesses next year that purchase new equipment all of our current U.S. orders were canceled. That left us with just a couple of orders from Mexican companies. U.S companies are waiting to see if they can get a tax break by buying next year. If we can survive four to six months with no orders we may reopen.
Mexican companies made up a small percentage of our business, but after O announced his new plans it is now 100% of the business we have left. Close the border and finish shutting us down completely. The far left killed off 85% of my company. The far right wants the other 15%. Thanks loads. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm kinda with Dave on this one. I think we need to enforce laws against employers who hire illegals. They in turn will go home. If we seal the border they wont be able to go home. Then we will be economically responsible for the logistics of repatriating them. Once the problem is stabilized then we can seal the border, IMO. Not going to happen. Illegals paying into social security are propping it up and keeping the ponzi scheme from falling. I hear there was quite the mass exodus from Arizona when they attempted to pass that law. If they have no way to work here in the US then they are likely to go home. The ones that don't who sign up for services can then be arrested and sent back. |
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Quoted: Quoted: korea is in europe now?Quoted: The U.S. border should be like the Korean DMZ. Land mines, razor fences, armed guard patrolling, etc. Ask the French how well the Maginot Line worked. The Germans went around it, over it and cut through it like butter. Walls and defenses do not keep people out. oh, and bad comparison as the boarder fencing at current more closely resembles that line than does the korean dmz idea. had the maginot line gone all the way across, it wouldve probably faired much betterKorea, France... it doesn't matter. People always get through defenses and walls.
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Quoted: I dont think people are thinking this through. Mexico is one of our largest trade partners, a breakdown in trade would be disastrous for both of our economies. Yup, they are a significant part of our economy. You shut that down and you hurt America more than Obama. |
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Bring the troops home from Afgan, put them on border patrol and static security while a wall is built along the whole border. 1,969 miles in Texas alone. You dig out YOUR wallet, I'm not going to. It would be cheaper than paying for anchor babies, ER costs, jails etc... |