[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Mini-14 (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/27/2010 2:05:04 PM EDT
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I read a GD thread early this morning that got me thinking.
Why are so many people on here so dismissive and condescending toward the Mini-14? I've shot one before and didn't find it to be nearly as troublesome as is often alleged here. Is the Mini-14 really that bad a rifle? Maybe this is a case of some kind of AR snobbery? I have heard the Mini-14 called "The poor man's AR"... Thoughts? |
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Quoted: I read a GD thread early this morning that got me thinking. Why are so many people on here so dismissive and condescending toward the Mini-14? I've shot one before and didn't find it to be nearly as troublesome as is often alleged here. Is the Mini-14 really that bad a rifle? Maybe this is a case of some kind of AR snobbery? I have heard the Mini-14 called "The poor man's AR"... Thoughts? They just aren't really worth the money. Accuracy sucks. If I could find one in excellent condition, stainless, and in a folder for bout $350, I'd buy it and plink with it. |
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The Mini-14 is what it is: A lightweight carbine designed for short-range shooting. It does it fairly well. The problem with the Mini today is that the advantages in price and availability it had over the AR platform during the 1970's and '80s no longer exist. ARs are so much cheaper and more plentiful that it doesn't really make sense to buy a new Mini unless you live in a state which has an AR ban. |
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The problem is, the cost. For the price of the Mini-14 new, you could get a much more accurate AR-15. I like the mini, but think it is a $350 rifle, not whatever they are selling for these days. This. I have owned several, but I never paid more than $350 for any of them. For $400, I can has new AK. For $700, I can has new AR. For $650 I can has mini14? WTF! |
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The zero starts to wander as the barrel heats up, ruining accuracy for more than 2-3 shots.
It is a reliable gun with lousy ammo, but the accuracy issue made me sell mine with no regrets in the end. And during the ban, it was VERY hard to find good hicap mags. If they made it compatible with AR mags, it'd probably have been alot more popular. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The problem is, the cost. For the price of the Mini-14 new, you could get a much more accurate AR-15. I like the mini, but think it is a $350 rifle, not whatever they are selling for these days. This. I have owned several, but I never paid more than $350 for any of them. For $400, I can has new AK. For $700, I can has new AR. For $650 I can has mini14? WTF! Or, if you're happy with fudd stocks anyway, you can get a Saiga for bout $239  Or an SKS ... And I am sure there are more options. Hell, the Kel-tecs come to mind too. |
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Quoted: The problem is, the cost. For the price of the Mini-14 new, you could get a much more accurate AR-15. I like the mini, but think it is a $350 rifle, not whatever they are selling for these days. This... A quick search of a local stores online firearm browsing shows the cheapest version of the Mini-14 at $705 before tax and it comes with one 5 round mag. At this moment I could go out and buy a S&W MP-15 for $700 and then mail in a $100 rebate. So... Simple Mini-14, or MP-15 for $100 less... Decisions, decisions... |
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The Mini-14 is a good rifle that can be improved on when it comes to accuracy. There are some aftermarket mods out there to improve the Mini-14's accuracy but after you spend the money you might as well have gotten an AR15. I like the Mini-14 and Mini-30 concept. But I have seen for myself just how inaccurate they can be. eta HOLY CRAP! $700.00!!! They USED to be $350.00! |
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Quoted:
The problem is, the cost. For the price of the Mini-14 new, you could get a much more accurate AR-15. I like the mini, but think it is a $350 rifle, not whatever they are selling for these days. This. If they were priced what I believe they are worth I'd own a couple just for trunk guns. I can build a better in every way AR for the price of a mini. |
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Mine was made in the 70's so its not all updated like the newest ones (and therefore subject to the most ridicule). Ive shot small critters from 75-100 yards away. Minute of skunk it good enough for me. I dont really get all the hate.
That being said, at todays prices, they have shot themselves in the foot when going up against the AR in that realm. IMO if you want a "non-evil looking" mag fed semi auto in .223 its fills that niche quite well That being said I inherited mine so I paid exactly $0. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've wondered this for years, and was hoping someone would pose this question. True, this subject has never been discussed before on GD....  You think the word "barn" will make the first page? That, or someone will post the "Mini 14 target" pic.  |
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I got one for Christmas a few years ago. It's a very nice, handy rifle that is fun to shoot. If I don't remind myself I have AR's, I'm completely satisfied with it. It's quite similar to the Remington 597. It's a good little rifle, but the 10/22 is just a little better. When you add the accessories, it absolutely kills it. I do think there's some snobbery involved, too, though. |
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The problem with the Mini 14 is the poor engineering. It is basically a scaled down M14, hence the name that Sullivan (Eugene Stoner's draftsman) did after Stoner had him scale down the AR10 to the AR15. While the AR10 does not have any issues when scaled down, the M14 certainly had problems. First, bedding was picky. Then there is the gas system...in the M14, the much larger .30 caliber barrel had adequate stiffness to resist the external loading imposed by the reciprocating masses. But this stiffness doesn't scale linearly so when the barrel is scaled down to .2245" groove diameter, it becomes much "whippier" than the .30 caliber, even with 4" or so lopped off. This is why when the Mini 30 came out, accuracy (with reloads as Ruger chose a 0.3085" groove diameter) is much better. Shooting surplus ammo and you might not see the difference as the bullet is squeezed down to fit. |
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Quoted:
I read a GD thread early this morning that got me thinking. Why are so many people on here so dismissive and condescending toward the Mini-14? I've shot one before and didn't find it to be nearly as troublesome as is often alleged here. Is the Mini-14 really that bad a rifle? Maybe this is a case of some kind of AR snobbery? I have heard the Mini-14 called "The poor man's AR"... Thoughts? I thought the "Poor Man's AR" was the AR-180
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The problem is, the cost. For the price of the Mini-14 new, you could get a much more accurate AR-15. I like the mini, but think it is a $350 rifle, not whatever they are selling for these days. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I like the Mini-14, but I paid $300 for mine. |
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I owned one for years, bought it back when they sold for $180 at the PX. Even then it was barely worth that much. At todays prices no way.
it just didn't impress me enough to keep it, even just as a plinker. An SKS is a better rifle, by a long shot. If people like them, I got no problem with it, I don't look down on anyone for using them. There are worse guns out there. |
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When a new Ruger Mini-14 was ~$250 and a new Colt SP-1 was ~$500, the Mini-14 was worth buying.
Relative to inflation, Colt Defense ARs are ~the same (in many cases, depending on product, prices are slightly lower) Relative to inflation, Ruger Mini-14s have gotten more expensive. A market saturated with competitors has resulted in many non-Colt ARs of eqaul quality to Colt being insignificantly more expensive than a Ruger Mini-14 The same competition saturated market has resulted in ARs that are not really as good as the Colt but better than the Ruger Mini-14 being similarly priced or even cheaper than the Mini-14 Then there is the matter of every Ruger bearing the name of a man who believed "an honest man doesnt need more than [was it 5 or 10?] rounds." 
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The problem is, the cost. For the price of the Mini-14 new, you could get a much more accurate AR-15. I like the mini, but think it is a $350 rifle, not whatever they are selling for these days. When I bought mine in the early 80's it was a $350 carbine. I put a 3-9X burris compact on it and it would shoot in the 2" range. I had the factory 20 round mag in it and it ran flawless. Ruger had a lot of accuracy issues with the mIni-14s after that. Evidently they press fit the front sight assembly on the barrel and found they were actually introducing barrel distortion in the muzzle area. That's why they changed the front sight to the newer version today. I still like the Mini-14 but there is no reason for me to buy one at the inflated prices, especially when I can build an AR they way I want it. |
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I got one for Christmas a few years ago. It's a very nice, handy rifle that is fun to shoot. If I don't remind myself I have AR's, I'm completely satisfied with it. It's quite similar to the Remington 597. It's a good little rifle, but the 10/22 is just a little better. When you add the accessories, it absolutely kills it. I do think there's some snobbery involved, too, though. I do think there's some snobbery involved, too, though.
It's not snobbery, it's simply the limitations of the Mini platform, along with the pricing that makes it secondary to all other options on the market. |
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This sounds like the best answer thus far.
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The problem with the Mini 14 is the poor engineering. It is basically a scaled down M14, hence the name that Sullivan (Eugene Stoner's draftsman) did after Stoner had him scale down the AR10 to the AR15. While the AR10 does not have any issues when scaled down, the M14 certainly had problems. First, bedding was picky. Then there is the gas system...in the M14, the much larger .30 caliber barrel had adequate stiffness to resist the external loading imposed by the reciprocating masses. But this stiffness doesn't scale linearly so when the barrel is scaled down to .2245" groove diameter, it becomes much "whippier" than the .30 caliber, even with 4" or so lopped off. This is why when the Mini 30 came out, accuracy (with reloads as Ruger chose a 0.3085" groove diameter) is much better. Shooting surplus ammo and you might not see the difference as the bullet is squeezed down to fit. |
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Bill Ruger didn't help his company's cause by being on the wrong side of gun issues.
I own a Mini 14 and a 10/22. They will be the only Rugers I ever own. The mini is accurate with WWB 45 gr varmint load. Had to experiment alot. What is said is true. Why buy a mini when for the same money you can have an AR? |
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I just sold my Mini from the mid 80's a few months ago.I had that rifle from new and you could not get after market mags to fit right so if you wanted 20 or 30 Rd's you had to put up with hard to fit mags.Accuracy sucked, but I did not notice how much it sucked until my buddy brought his AR to the range and I shot it .
You can get factory 20's and 30's for it now so that's not a problem anymore.Right before I sold the rifle I emailed Ruger to find out what twist rifling the gun had and it turns out it had 1/7 twist.So I went out and bought some wolf 62gr and it did shoot a little better but still not as good as my new Colt 6920 I bought.For the money I will never own another Mini-14 when the AR-15 is Superior in every way I can think of. 
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IIRC from G&A, Ruger had been churning out the Mini's since the 70's, w/o updating or refitting the machines they were using. The worn out tools were making rifles that were off spec out of the box. They fixed all that a few years ago, (remember when the Mini started getting exotic stocks, and compensators), supposedly they have their accuracy back, but the price did go up to AR territory. It isn't as good as an AR, and while the new ones are most likely better than AK's and SKS's their old reputation precedes them, and not considered to be worth the money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I think for most guys on here, myself included, it's mainly because it doesn't offer the level of quality that you would expect for the price. Couple that with the late Bill Ruger's attitude and the fact that the name of this website is AR15.com and you can see why all the hate.
The Mini-14 is a decent rifle that is accurate enough for most tasks. The problem is that it is not anywhere near as accurate as a stock AR and, until recently, factory 20 round mags were expensive and hard to find. The aftermarket mags were hit or miss. There are a lot of accessories for it, but they are mostly junk. The most recent incarnation of the Mini-14 seems to have a bit better accuracy because of a thicker barrel and Ruger is now selling 20 round mags to the public. If they lowered the MSRP to $499, it would make a lot more sense. With an MSRP of $499, they could be found new for about $450 and used for $400 or less which would make them much more appealing. Who wants to pay $600 or more when an AR would be more accurate for the same price, or you could get an AK for two thirds the price?. It's not that it's a bad rifle, it's just not good enough for the price. |
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Sarcastic poster is sarcastic.I've wondered this for years, and was hoping someone would pose this question. I need to know about accuracy - MOA type stuff, help me out here. Let me see if I can dig something up. ETA: here toy go: 
I tried to find a picture of the broad side, but this is more of a quartering shot. Still might ought to be able to make it happen if you're an accomplished marksman. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sarcastic poster is sarcastic.I've wondered this for years, and was hoping someone would pose this question. I need to know about accuracy - MOA type stuff, help me out here. Let me see if I can dig something up. ETA: here toy go: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/mini14Humor.png Yep, got it in on page one! |
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Sarcastic poster is sarcastic.I've wondered this for years, and was hoping someone would pose this question. I need to know about accuracy - MOA type stuff, help me out here. Let me see if I can dig something up. ETA: here toy go: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/mini14Humor.png Yep, got it in on page one! 
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Well that about covers all anyone would ever need to know about the Mini 14, except to say the new ones are "improved", and the shiny ones look handsome. Anything else? If Counterstrike or Modern Warfare had one, they'd sell like hotcakes.  There is much truth in this statement!
Between that and Hedonist's sig line I'm having a ball in here. |
| my Mini14 was my first gun. It was more accurate than me so I thought it was the shit. It never jammed when I used good magazines. Most aftermarket magazines are pure garbage. It's nowhere near as accurate as an AR. The details of this I don't really understand but I would bet someone with a _ will come by to clear that up. |