Posted: 7/8/2010 3:00:37 PM EDT
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As I see it, the success or failure of the Iraq War will not be determined until US troops completely withdraw.
If the Iraqi Government stands and the Iraqi military and Iraqi police can maintain security then Iraq will be determined as a success. If they fall then it will be called a defeat. So, what is the current state of affairs in Iraq? Will their government hold and will the Iraqis be able to maintain order, or is the whole thing going to disintegrate when our troops come home? It brings up another question, why has the US record on wars been so dismal since WWII? Korea - Tie Vietnam - Defeat Gulf War I - Victory Iraq - To be determined Afghanistan - To be determined, but not looking good. |
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If/when we pull out, I see a full court press from Iran, Syria and maybe Turkey from the north with radical factions pressing west from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Wouldn't surprise me to see Russia slyly nudging the border south with its big toe. I don't know if anyone is going to invade them, but I don't doubt that the nations you mentioned would try and fight proxy wars by arming groups of discontents and training and arming terrorists and generally try and get the nation to self destruct. Turkey might invade part of the north if the situation gets out of hand, but I don't foresee them deliberately starting trouble. |
I believe Iraq was a complete military victory in the sense that the U.S. crushed the Iraqi military and removed the regime of Saddam Hussein. Only the political outcome is in question. Unfortunately, once we leave, all bets are off. I'm afraid the existing government will collapse and a new tyrant will emerge. |
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If/when we pull out, I see a full court press from Iran, Syria and maybe Turkey from the north with radical factions pressing west from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Wouldn't surprise me to see Russia slyly nudging the border south with its big toe. I don't know if anyone is going to invade them, but I don't doubt that the nations you mentioned would try and fight proxy wars by arming groups of discontents and training and arming terrorists and generally try and get the nation to self destruct. Turkey might invade part of the north if the situation gets out of hand, but I don't foresee them deliberately starting trouble. Ya, you're right. What I meant by full court press would be covert, insurgents creating as much hate and discontent as possible to destabilize everything. |
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I believe Iraq was a complete military victory in the sense that the U.S. crushed the Iraqi military and removed the regime of Saddam Hussein. Only the political outcome is in question. Unfortunately, once we leave, all bets are off. I'm afraid the existing government will collapse and a new tyrant will emerge.
In which case history will call the Iraq war a failure.
ETA - I am genuinely trying to solicit the opinions of people who actually know the status of Iraq and have a knowledgeable basis for making a determination about what the future will hold. |
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within hours we bitch slapped the entire Iraqi army, then we decided to occupy, things were really bad fighting the insurgency but from what i have heard from buddies is things are mostly peaceful now.
I would say thats a definite win. Here is where we lost, look who is in office, look at all the soldiers/families effected by the war 
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Vietnam was a political loss, not a military loss. The result was the same. The US pulled out and South Vietnam no longer exists. Defeat is defeat, and in the case of Vietnam the inability of the US to deliver a decisive victory over a bunch of rice farmers was pretty devastating to American morale. Yes, politics hamstrung the military, but that doesn't change the fact that the ghosts of Vietnam and America's inability to win still haunt many Americans to this day. I grew up in the 80s under Reagan, and the Vietnam war was still a sore spot. Same is true with Iraq. Yes, our military kicked the hell out of the Iraqi military, took over the whole country, captured Saddam, killed his sons and secured the nation. But if the Iraqi government collapses when our troops leave then it will negate just about everything America went there to do and our enemies will tout it as a defeat for the imperialist American pig dogs. |
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Vietnam was a political loss, not a military loss. The result was the same. The US pulled out and South Vietnam no longer exists. Defeat is defeat, and in the case of Vietnam the inability of the US to deliver a decisive victory over a bunch of rice farmers was pretty devastating to American morale. Yes, politics hamstrung the military, but that doesn't change the fact that the ghosts of Vietnam and America's inability to win still haunt many Americans to this day. I grew up in the 80s under Reagan, and the Vietnam war was still a sore spot. Same is true with Iraq. Yes, our military kicked the hell out of the Iraqi military, took over the whole country, captured Saddam, killed his sons and secured the nation. But if the Iraqi government collapses when our troops leave then it will negate just about everything America went there to do and our enemies will tout it as a defeat for the imperialist American pig dogs. The NVA was ready to give it up after Tet in 1968. They were done for, but when they saw Cronkite on TV declaring Tet as a defeat for us, along with Jane Fonda encouraging them to continue, they stuck with it. I don't know why it should affect the morale of the American people, they were most of the problem. It certainly affected our morale, seeing the public acting like shitheads about the whole damn thing and the way they treated those of us in the military at the time. The only people who should be haunted are the morons who marched against us and openly supported the enemy. There was a lot of that crap and it was on TV daily. It wasn't any inability to win, it was the American public's inability to think straight, just like now with the idiots who voted for Obama. It was LBJ's micromanagement and giving the enemy respites during which they regrouped and re-armed. The military had the ability to win but they weren't allowed to win. |
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World War 2 was the one war in recent history where we were ALL willing to make major sacrifices to win the war. We'd lose thousands of troops in a single day, and we still didn't back down. If we put the kind of effort into the wars after WW2, where we had millions upon millions of Americans serving, we'd of defeated Korea and Vietnam. Instead, we have been fighting with one arm tied behind our back. Not really engaged in the fight. |
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