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Posted: 3/26/2002 12:52:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 12:53:26 PM EDT by Javak]
From Peter Viles CNN Money Correspondent NEW YORK (CNN) -- Attorneys for a former law student, who discovered evidence linking U.S. corporations to the slave trade, filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday that could seek billions of dollars in reparations for the descendants of slaves in America. The lawsuit filed in federal court in Brooklyn names FleetBoston Financial, the railroad firm CSX and the Aetna insurance company, and promises to name up to 100 additional corporations at a later date. It accuses the companies of conspiracy, human rights violations, unjust enrichment from their corporate predecessors' roles in the slave trade and conversion of the value of the slaves' labor into their profits. "These are corporations that benefited from stealing people, from stealing labor, from forced breeding, from torture, from committing numerous horrendous acts, and there's no reason why they should be able to hold onto assets they acquired through such horrendous acts," said Deadria Farmer-Paellmann, the main plaintiff in the lawsuit. Farmer-Paellmann said she learned of Aetna's role in insuring slaves in legal classes, and then asked Aetna for old policies documenting the practice, which Aetna provided to her. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of 35 million African-Americans. It seeks financial payments for the value of "stolen" labor and unjust enrichment and calls for the companies to give up "illicit profits." The plaintiffs are also seeking compensatory and punitive damages. The lawsuit does not seek a specific dollar amount, but estimates slaves performed as much as $40 million worth of unpaid labor between 1790 and 1860. The current value of that labor could be as high as $1.4 trillion The lawsuit alleges that Aetna's corporate predecessor "insured human slave owners against the loss of their human chattel." In response, Aetna released a statement saying, "We do not believe a court would permit a lawsuit over events which -- however regrettable -- occurred hundreds of years ago. These issues in no way reflect Aetna today." The lawsuit notes that FleetBoston is a successor to Providence Bank, which it says was founded by Rhode Island slave trader John Brown. FleetBoston had no immediate comment on the suit. The suit alleges that CSX, based in Richmond, Virginia, is a successor to numerous railroads that were built or run, at least in part, by slave labor. In a statement, CSX said the suit is "wholly without merit and should be dismissed. The claimants named CSX because slave labor was used to construct portions of some U.S. rail lines under the political and legal system in place more than a century before CSX was formed in 1980."
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Link Posted: 3/26/2002 12:53:07 PM EDT
Slave reparations have been a controversial issue. A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll conducted last month found a wide difference of opinion on the issue between black and white respondents. Nine out of 10 white respondents said the government should not make cash payments to slave descendants while 6 percent said it should. Among black respondents, 55 percent said the government should make cash payments and 37 percent said it should not. The poll surveyed 1,001 adults -- 820 of them white and 146 black -- February 8-10. The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 9 percentage points for black respondents and plus or minus 4 percent points for white respondents. The percentages differ because of the difference in the number of people surveyed. The same people were asked if corporations that made profits from slavery should apologize to African-Americans. Among blacks, 68 percent said they should while 23 percent said they should not. Among whites, 32 percent said they should and 62 percent said they should not. Three-fourths of black respondents said the companies should set up scholarship funds for descendants of slaves and 20 percent said they should not. Among white respondents, 35 percent of respondents said they favored the scholarship funds while 61 percent said they were opposed.
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What, they don't teach this thing call "ex post facto" in law school?
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 1:19:19 PM EDT
The Law suit is against companies that were engaged in a legal practice at the time??? Slaves were insured as "property" by thier owners, am I missing something??? Do they plan to boycott all Rail-Roads and any products transported by rail or is it just another case of "Showz Me Da Money" Congress refusing to give Linclon 1 Million Dollars for Returning slaves to Africa seems to be the real crime here. [:)>]
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 1:22:50 PM EDT
If we could only keep these crazy racists from trying to divide us, perhaps people would have no reason to discuss such things in the general discussion forum. As punkatomic puts it: "This racial business here gets to be tiresome." And in America too. AMEN!
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 1:47:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter69: If we could only keep these crazy racists from trying to divide us, perhaps people would have no reason to discuss such things in the general discussion forum. As punkatomic puts it: "This racial business here gets to be tiresome." And in America too. AMEN!
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Shooter69 What part of my questions or observations do you find Racist? Norway was for many years enslaved by Sweden yet no Blood Sucking Lawyers are seeking reperations there. I get a bit tired of the idea that money (minus 1/3 for Lawyer's fees) fixes everything. Considering the number of Americans that can trace thier ancestry back to White Anglo Saxon slave owners, This song gets old quick. Perhaps asking the English Royal Family for compensation might be in order. They after all allowed white lower class people to held as chattle.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 1:55:05 PM EDT
sigh Isn't there some sort of statute of limitations? ALL peoples of ALL nations, races, creeds and colors have been victimized, conquered, enslaved and abused by others throughout history. Should everyone be allowed to sue everyone else? If so, get ready for a lawsuit brought by the tribes of North America.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 1:58:00 PM EDT
Reparations for slavery is such a load of crap! I agree that slavery was a terrible thing, but it is over! Can anyone say their Grandpa, Great Grandpa or even Great, Great Grandpa was a slave?! The facts are that the average black person in the US today is far better off than if they were in Africa. We're all Americans, so lets quit blaming everything on the white guys and get on with life.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 2:10:23 PM EDT
This reparation garbage has been in and out of the press for at least 20 years. It's B.S. propaganda that Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and such use to get votes from the black populace without having to actually do anything.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 2:14:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 2:18:06 PM EDT by Javak]
My take on this is that having decided that it's too hard to sue the US Government, who would take this all the way to the Supreme Court, and the trial length may be longer than the lawyers' life spans thus depriving them of the loots, the lawyers decided to sue individual companies instead, who would sooner settle than fight on forever. I hope these companies band togather and fight this madness. What's interesting is the first six words on this article: "Attorneys for a former law student" A failed lawyer-wanna-be has her own lawyers? BTW, the reason that I posted this is not to stir the pot of repapration rhetorics, but to show that something IS happening, that the lawyers ARE naming names and filing suits.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 2:34:12 PM EDT
Since I'm only a 3rd generation American, do I get to opt out of this horse shit? If they go after the corporation, the price of products will increase. Why the hell should I have to pay for slavery? My family was still in Europe!! Pisses me off. Av.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 2:40:13 PM EDT
Something for nothing, as usual. Total BS.[:(!]
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 2:59:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 3:01:27 PM EDT by SWIRE]
Originally Posted By tpuls: Reparations for slavery is such a load of crap! I agree that slavery was a terrible thing, but it is over! Can anyone say their Grandpa, Great Grandpa or even Great, Great Grandpa was a slave?! The facts are that the average black person in the US today is far better off than if they were in Africa.
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That's not what a black New York City councilman said on Bill O'Riley's show. He's the guy that was pushing to have all the pictures of the founding fathers removed from public buildings because those people were un-American since they owned slaves. He said his people would be better off in Africa but they had no intentions of leaving because they were already here. What's sad is this guy was actually elected by the people to represent them. He wasn't like Sharpton or Jackson who used other people's money to get their message out. The people of New York actually elected this guy.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 3:32:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 3:33:26 PM EDT by shooter69]
Originally Posted By Rudison: [Shooter69 What part of my questions or observations do you find Racist?
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No part of it. Only the people mentioned in the CNN report cited that are seeking damages for something that took place two centuries ago.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 4:45:57 PM EDT
I am all for slavery reparations- only for the slaves that are still alive.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 4:50:52 PM EDT
Reparations for slavery will only divide the masses more and create more intolerance....hmmm agenda here?
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 4:57:48 PM EDT
Can't see how they can get past the statue of limitations and laches defenses...not to mention standing. Is this even a claim to which relief can be granted? Lawyers, help me out here.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:00:50 PM EDT
F@$K THIS! MY FAMILY DIDN'T EVEN GET TO THIS COUNTRY UNTIL THE LATE 60'S! I realize they're going after corp's right now, but in the end you & I will pay for this through higher consumer prices & higher taxes. Give me a freaking break. Hell, my ancestors were enslaved by the Ottomans for a few hundred years... It's past history, no current damages - DEAL WITH IT.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:06:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By tpuls: Reparations for slavery is such a load of crap! I agree that slavery was a terrible thing, but it is over! Can anyone say their Grandpa, Great Grandpa or even Great, Great Grandpa was a slave?! The facts are that the average black person in the US today is far better off than if they were in Africa.
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That's not what a black New York City councilman said on Bill O'Riley's show. He's the guy that was pushing to have all the pictures of the founding fathers removed from public buildings because those people were un-American since they owned slaves. He said his people would be better off in Africa but they had no intentions of leaving because they were already here. What's sad is this guy was actually elected by the people to represent them. He wasn't like Sharpton or Jackson who used other people's money to get their message out. The people of New York actually elected this guy.
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The people of New York are not known lately for their good choices at election time. Hillary come to mind as another bad choice.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:22:37 PM EDT
My family owned slaves in Louisiana around Bayou Ghoula and Plaquemines. Lots and lots of them. So what! If anybody thinks they are owed something by me, send me a bill. If I pay, do I get to keep them?
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:34:43 PM EDT
How can anyone expect reparations over events that happened 150 years ago that were, at that time legal and accepted practice world wide? I saw on CNN this afternoon someone comparing it to restitution the Jews received after WW2. The difference being what Hitler and his thugs did were not accepted practice and not legal anywhere.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 5:40:58 PM EDT by ORIGINAL-Waterdog]
You wanna put a stop to this crap?, boycott professional sports. Contact every company that sponsors pro sports, (the big 3) and let them know you won't be watching anymore ball games until these parasites cease and desist. Racism is for ignorant, intimidated, low self-esteemed, people. IMHO waterdog
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:40:57 PM EDT
My family owned a couple of slaves many years ago. My Grandfather(3)fought as a Confederate soldier to keep them. Screw it. If anyone thinks I owe them anything let them come and get it. At long range I have a M1A, medium range an AR and when they break down the door I have a 1911. That's the only way they are going to get it from me. If the politicians pass some bill that takes my hard earned tax money then I will find some way to cheat the government out of my share. I don't owe anything to anybody. The truth of the matter is that African Americans owe themselves. Slavery made the country an exporter of goods and started us on the road to prosperity. Everyone living in America today benefited from slavery, including Afro-Americans.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:45:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dukota: How can anyone expect reparations over events that happened 150 years ago that were, at that time legal and accepted practice world wide? I saw on CNN this afternoon someone comparing it to restitution the Jews received after WW2. The difference being what Hitler and his thugs did were not accepted practice and not legal anywhere.
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There is also another big difference. The ones who were paid after WWII were the ones who were actually enslaved/imprisoned and it happened shortly after the fact. On the subject of reparations for slavery, are they also going to sue the tribes in Africa that captured, enslaved, and then sold them to slave traders of various nationalities who then transported them to the states? Are they going to sue the descendants of the slave traders of various nationalities? Are they going to do anything about the slave trade that still exists in the world today, including the same practice of Africans enslaving other Africans?
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:51:01 PM EDT
Can anyone explain to me how people can sue you for breaking the law when at the time that law dint exist? "Excuse mah mistah ociffer, arrest this man, his dad was a slave owner 200 years ago!"
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 5:52:39 PM EDT
Being that this is a civil case, hasn't it been far too long for this to even be brought to court? Can a lawyer answer this? In my opinion, the 80% of blacks who think they are entitled to something should be deported and the 20% who didn't should be embraced as Americans...and maybe even given money just to spite the lazy, greedy bastards we kicked out.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 6:03:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2002 6:05:56 PM EDT by urodoji]
Guys, 1.4 trillion dollars, tack on another trillion or so(hey, who's counting?) to punish those evil companies for their wrongdoings(yeah, right). Numero uno, this would bankrupt a very large Class I railroad, and do really serious damage to the transportation sector(hope your 401k has a little CSX stock in it!). Besides all the financial damage, it would seriously handicap the country in the case of war. Quick guys, I know you're up on things, what's the government answer to this? That's right, let the government run it! Judging by AMTRAK's performance, hell, why not? No good can come of this lawsuit, and only a fool, traitor, or communist could possibly think otherwise.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 6:53:17 PM EDT
I'm all for reparations. The only condition being that anybody whose ancestors every participated in the slave trade would be excluded from the payments. And let's see, if I remember right, most every tribe in Africa sold slaves, therefore all African-Americans would not be allowed to receive the payments. Nobody to pay the reparations to. I do have two questions though. 1. What's with the hyphenated American stuff?That ticks me off. When I fill out a form and it asks for my race, I mark "Other" and write in "American". 2. Charlize Theron, one rather attractive actress, is white and is from South Africa. Would she be in line for reparations? Misanthrope
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 7:31:43 PM EDT
Some of this is being funded by the tobacco settlement. Suits against gun manufacturers were meant to parlay that bonanza but have failed miserably. Reparations is the ultimate class action suit, the big Shakedown kind of a sign of the times, and it speaks desperation for the democrats. Anything to generate a little mud to sling.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 7:55:34 PM EDT
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. ARH
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 8:38:46 PM EDT
Any judge who fails to throw this EXTORTION out of his court within the hour deserves to be TARRED and FEATHERED!!!! What NON-sense! Do these parasites actually BELIEVE this insanity? I have a good friend who happens to be black and HE thinks it is ridiculous!
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 8:56:20 PM EDT
Interesting comment one of my classmates made. If the Blacks can sue for the labor "they" (actually about 7 generations back) provided, can the United States Government sue the blacks for the cost of the civil war? I know that the war was more about State's rights than about slavery, but elimination of slavery was part and parcel of the damn yankee's victory. I would be willing to bet that the cost of the Civil war far exceeded the $40 million referred to in the article as the value of the labor of the slaves. Oops, then the "African Americans" might actually owe the US Government money--that wouldn't be politically correct would it? Another thought--the lead plantiff in the lawsuit, can she prove she is the direct descendent of slaves? Would she be eligable for any cash settlement if she is not? What if she is 1/100th slave descendent, and someone else is 80/100ths, do they get 80x what she does? This may be the beginning of the end for the culture of dependancy among all minorities (don't get me wrong, not all minorities--either as a group or an individual are dependant on anyone. I am specifically referring to the ones that assume that someone owes them a free ride because they are a minority). If this lawsuit gets thrown out of court, which it probably will, then the entire country will start examining the system of handouts, and realize that NO ONE is owed something just because of their genetics. Soldiers disabled in the service of their country are owed something. Someone who has a particular skin color is not.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 9:19:28 PM EDT
I seem to have heard Halle Berry is 1/2 black and 1/2 white. Does she pay or collect? What about Tiger Woods - does his Asian 1/2 stand by while his black 1/4 or whatever recieves? What an impossible swamp!!
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 10:22:59 PM EDT
Reparations = Hay formerly used by Horses. (figure that one out for yourself - it ain't too hard...) Who pays? Anyone responsible for the INCEPTION and PERPETUATION of slavery - so go after the families of the tribal Chieftans in Africa that sold them out. Who collects - Anyone with a DIRECT, COMPLETE, and VERIFIABLE link to slavery. viz., your family - all the way back! - has to go on a DIRECT line to slaves held in the States (no deviation!) Also, any dilution of the line (from non-slave families, races, or bloodlines) IMMEDIATELY and FOREVER revokes your claim to reparations monies. With this plan, the money we won't collect from Africa won't be distributed to the people here who weren't slaves, and I find that fair. While we are at it, how about involving Spain, Portugal, and England for bringing Negroes across the Atlantic in the "sardine ships?" Let's be fair - I don't think too mane slaves were actually brought across by American ships. Our surface tonnage was usually brought across by Europena fleets, IIRC. Now, how about caucasians who were involved in the endgame of slavery? My family had quite a few soldiers in the Union, and I lost distant relatives in the actions of the Underground Railroad. Can I get compensated for their loss of life and/or limb as well? It's only fair... FFZ
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 10:39:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ORIGINAL-Waterdog: You wanna put a stop to this crap?, boycott professional sports. Contact every company that sponsors pro sports, (the big 3) and let them know you won't be watching anymore ball games until these parasites cease and desist. Racism is for ignorant, intimidated, low self-esteemed, people. IMHO waterdog
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It is like judo. Use a large force against itself. This will work. This boycot represents a real threat to serious cash flows and nobody is immune when this and similar cash flows are threatened. Note that Budwieser is a "goodfellow" here at AR15.c_m even though arch anti-gun and anti-freedom McCain has a Budwieser dealership in Pheonix? If the unwashed masses wise-up there is hope yet. waterdog will have to go into hiding now.
Link Posted: 3/26/2002 10:53:18 PM EDT
Just out of curiosity - how will boycotting pro sports help? Won't we end up with a bailout for the poor schmucks that aren't getting their $10M per annum anymore? I don't watch pro sports to begin with anyhow. Most of these guys are overpaid wusses in the first place - really, how exactly do you sprain a toe - and then get six weeks off for it STILL GETTING PAID? Pansy. I seem to recall stomping about with assorted holes in me at different times. I have reset broken bones in my hand, had my shoulder and neck put back together, had a knee rebuilt, and had my left thigh put back together - all for a measly $35-40K per year. Oh, and I had to FINISH the damn job before I could even get patched up! I don't want to hear it. Athletes, my ass. FFZ
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 12:52:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeFireZone: Just out of curiosity - how will boycotting pro sports help? snipFFZ
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It is a tactic that if used in a good strategy can work. Pro sports is an overlooked Achilles' heel of the powers that be. I don't give a f*ck about reparations or the companies being sued, and the companies being sued do not care about me. I am saying that if you, the unwashed masses, want to keep your freedoms, you, the unwashed masses, must be effectual, and now. This is history happening now. I've been boycotting pro sports for 15 years and I feel good about it. Try it for yourself.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 1:04:19 AM EDT
I hope the federal court kicks this one out fast. You must wonder why the court system is so screwed up these days with useless B.S. lawsuits without merits. It is all about the money.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 1:20:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2002 1:21:43 AM EDT by USP40C]
I could give a rats ass if your grannies' aunties' momma was a slave or not. I dont give a rats ass if your grannies' aunties' daddy owned slaves or not. The fact is that not a one of the people who deserve either side of repartion for slavery in America is alive today. I do not know of one man alive who owned slaves in the pre abolition days, nor of one man alive who was one. Feel free to correct me. Shut up, get out of my face, and die somewhere in a hole like a worm should. I take that back, worms serve a useful purpose in the world, these idiots do not. Any judge who would not echo these words, less the dieing part, should lose his seat on the bench. Reparation=Big F***ing JOKE!!!! The concept is good, but this instance is an absolute abomination!
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 1:26:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR18: I hope the federal court kicks this one out fast. You must wonder why the court system is so screwed up these days with useless B.S. lawsuits without merits. It is all about the money.
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My guess is that the law firm already has the judge in their pocket, and the jury panel as well, or they would not be using up the finite resources of the law firm. If the law firm doesn't own or rent the judge then the plan is to do the talk show circuit and generate book sales revenue, etc.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 4:13:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2002 4:16:34 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 4:33:45 AM EDT
Reparations will never happen. The principal actors are long since dead. When they were alive, they [b]may[/b] have had a case. This is a stupid political and long shot gambit by a bunch of political and greedy trial lawyers. Nothing more.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 5:27:52 AM EDT
Let's see: She sez that the current value of the slaves' labor is about $1.4 trillion. How much have we spent on welfare? Well over $3 trillion, IIRC. Who owes whom?
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 12:21:57 PM EDT
They know they do not have a chance of getting this thing very far. These race baiters have only one goal - To divide the races even more. After 9/11, we all pulled together as one country and they didn't like that. We are all Americans united behind one common goal - survival. That does not fit their agenda - to have a White America and a Black America. These people have done more to seperate the races than the Klan ever did. Anyone seen Jesse Jackson or Louis Farrakhan lately? If we all were to get along, they would be out of a job. I feel we are giving credence to their cause by even discussing it here. Ignore the ignorance.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 12:32:21 PM EDT
Goad - Thank you for answering my question - I still hope to understand it. Frankly, I think pro sports are a waste of resources and airtime, but I'm widely regarded as a crank. As far as "trying it" - please read the rest of my post. I have NEVER had an interest in pro sports - like I said, I think they are mainly a batch of overpaid wusses and just seethe whenever they are even talked about. I don't even look at the sport section of my paper, and can't figure out how anything sport-related can be considered newsworthy enough for the front page of the paper - AT ANY TIME! And, I probably sustain enough injuries that I call "minor" to bench three or four teams - every year. I don't stop. I don't get paid, either. No, I'm just not interested enough is pro sports to bother - and I can't figure out why they are still on the air. Sports they currently have on aren't interesting enough to make me sick. Sports I'd like to see, however - Long-Range precision shooting. Accracy in Artillery Full-Contact Martial Arts tourneys High-Impact Aerobics WTH - Topless Female Boxing (ya, I'm a pig. Stipulated. Now, go play with your dolly somewhere else!) FFZ
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 12:34:12 PM EDT
"That's my money!" is what I heard a black middle aged man say referring to reparations, on cable news at lunch time. He may believe his own words, but what I see is a sociopathic predator that senses wealthy white Americans are ripe for pickin'.
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 1:34:10 PM EDT
How about if all the people who owned slaves kick in a few bucks for the people who were slaves?
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 2:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2002 2:45:07 PM EDT by Arock]
For as objective and dispassionate an examination of the African slave situation as I am aware, read John Reader's text, "Africa: A Biography of the Continent" published in the USA in 1998 by Knopf. Refer to Section 5, Chapters 31 through 40, titled "Foreign Influences". Begins with fifteenth century Chinese and Arab incursions and covers the twelfth century indenture of captive Muslim and Slavic (slave) peoples and contextualizes the African slave trade in both African, Arab and European perspectives. Long story short, from a currently highly-regarded English author's view, the African slave trade developed as an answer to exploiting Africa's natural mineral resources on the part of West African tribal aristocracy with the assistance of early European explorers. *Edited to add that less than ten percent of those transported from Africa to the New World came to North America. And that those transported were largely the result of previously established Arab slaving practices and inter-tribal warfare. The fact is that most of those taken into slavery would have been killed outright or sent to more harsh conditions than they found in North America. Arock
Link Posted: 3/27/2002 3:07:47 PM EDT
OK, here's the deal. I own a black rifle that has been discriminated against by the US govt. I own several 30 rnd mags marked SLAVE. Shouldn't I be entitled to some sort of reparation? Or am I the one who needs to pay......again? By the way, being the good Southern gentleman that I am, I treat them all very well and feed them as much as I can afford to!!!
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