Posted: 4/1/2010 6:41:19 AM EDT
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I am very grateful to have an opportunity like this... I have no degree(but have taken relevant college level classes) and have held no previous employment in the field. This is a huge career/life goal of mine and I'm shitting bricks. I am pretty good with Python and VB.NET
Anyone have any tips?!? Anything I should bring with me to the interview? |
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Do your homework. Make sure you've read the website of the company that you are applying with.
In terms of technology specific interview preparation, google is your friend. If you google "VB.NET interview questions" and "Python interview questions", you'll find a good collection of questions that you might be asked from a technical perspective. I'd also encourage you to make sure that you could write basic algorithms on a white board. I'd expect you to be able to write pseudocode for a sort algorithm, or to write pseudocode for a recursive function. Be prepared to do this on a white board. I've interviewed a LOT of software engineers. We screen them before they get to me, and I generally reject about 75% of the people who get to me. It's actually shocking how many people have been programming for years that can't write simple algorithms. |
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Good luck! Not to scare you, but it's a competitive field that a degree helps heaps in. Thanks! I probably wouldn't have responded to the ad if it didn't state that there were no specific education requirements. They asked that you code on object oriented resume to submit to them  .
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http://csi.usc.edu/news/pictures/Raj.jpg "Hello, my name is Raj. I live in India and, in three years time, your job will become mine." _MaH Probably not even three. |
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Precisely why I got out of Computer Science! http://csi.usc.edu/news/pictures/Raj.jpg "Hello, my name is Raj. I live in India and, in three years time, your job will become mine." _MaH 
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Precisely why I got out of Computer Science! http://csi.usc.edu/news/pictures/Raj.jpg "Hello, my name is Raj. I live in India and, in three years time, your job will become mine." _MaH The trend of Offshore Development is reversing: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2003/sb20031231_3576.htm More and more companies are finding that it is not always cheaper to shift development offshore when all the costs are considered. Another key factor is the quality of programming. Many companies who used offshore development found themselves in trouble when code revisions were needed or the scope of the programming had changed and there needed to be more development....often the code looked like a high school kid wrote it. |
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Quoted: I am very grateful to have an opportunity like this... I have no degree(but have taken relevant college level classes) and have held no previous employment in the field. This is a huge career/life goal of mine and I'm shitting bricks. I am pretty good with Python and VB.NET Anyone have any tips?!? Anything I should bring with me to the interview? Don't pretend to "know everything", if they ask you regarding your knowledge of something and you have to reply that you don't know C++ for example just say so. "But" make it clear that you are willing and eager to learn whatever the job requires, especially if they pay for your training (through an annual training budget allotment). Take examples of your work and referrals and have them handy in case they ask. A little honesty and enthusiasm for the subject matter goes a long way during the interview process. eta: you should also polish up on some of the tools that industry currently uses, source safe, CVS, development environments etc so you dont get confused if they ask you about something. |
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Don't try to bullshit the interviewer if you don't know something.
The only time I interviewed for a programming job and they didn't already know me, they had me take a test. It was simple stuff. If it's an entry level job they shouldn't expect you to be a guru. |
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Yes, learn C and/or C#. VB is for children. VB .NET is not for children  It is the same as C# except for the "unsafe" code blocks. It all compiles into MSIL anyway so who cares what language it is in.
That said C# is more widely used so it is good to know it. I went from VB .NET to C# and haven't looked back. I really like C# more except the switch statement is useless compared to the "select case" of VB and there are no optional parameters until you get to the 4.0 framework in C#. Also some of the utility namespaces in VB are very useful and I import them from time to time. To the OP: Wear a suit if you have one!! Tell them your experience and don't act like you deserve the job. Be polite and send a follow up letter thanking them for the intereview. |
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Interesting. In my experience our off-shore coders (not developers) can follow instructions to the letter. They will never recognize if those instructions are incorrect or inefficient. If they have to make a decision on their own they normally shut down and do nothing. About 10% of them are worth the money we pay them. It is rare to find one who can actually be a developer. I consider those guys the ones that actually have to think to do their job.
The trend of Offshore Development is reversing: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2003/sb20031231_3576.htm More and more companies are finding that it is not always cheaper to shift development offshore when all the costs are considered. Another key factor is the quality of programming. Many companies who used offshore development found themselves in trouble when code revisions were needed or the scope of the programming had changed and there needed to be more development....often the code looked like a high school kid wrote it. |
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Write some small app - anything. Make an app that tallies up golf scores or keeps track of your cd collection - anything. Bring a laptop with you that has the source code on it so you can demo it to them.
I interview kids out of school every day. They have no life experience, no practical skill set, they've never written anything that somebody didn't assign them to do and they can't show up on time, shake hands, look you in the eye and say 'yes sir'. What software organizations or clubs have you participated in while you were in school? What IT meetings or functions have you volunteered to help out with? I'm not interested in hiring a 40 hour a week person - you need to convince me that you are serious about learning, serious about staying current on technology, and willing to go home at night and learn on your own. Do that and you'll get the job. I can hire a thousand guys in Bangalore for $12 an hour that can write what I tell them to write. Convince me that you can grasp business problems and solve them. Do that and you'll get the job. |
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I am very grateful to have an opportunity like this... I have no degree(but have taken relevant college level classes) and have held no previous employment in the field. This is a huge career/life goal of mine and I'm shitting bricks. I am pretty good with Python and VB.NET Anyone have any tips?!? Anything I should bring with me to the interview? My son, age 23, just got hired in my town as part time system specialist for the city. He too had no "formal" training, but has been computer minded for some time and has taught himself a few languages along with all kinds of other stuff. Part of the interview was to assess a certain software and then tell the interviewers about it. My kid did that and was able to show them a few things they didn't know. The next day he was taking a physical and the day after he started his first day there. Hopefully it will turn full time for him, but the city is laying off left and right, so he's lucky to have even been picked up. Regardless, it will be a good foot in the door of the field, and maybe he can pick up some certs along the way. I realize it's not quite the same as what you are doing, but hopefully you can show them something and have the same luck. My kid is a basic basement commando and he did well. You should too. |
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bring a sample of code you have written.
be prepared to explain what it does and why you wrote it that way. I like to find a regular expression or something neat and ask "what does this part of your code do?" don't be afraid to say that you don't know what polymorphic inheritance means if you don't know what it means. don't feel crushed if you don't get this job. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Interesting. In my experience our off-shore coders (not developers) can follow instructions to the letter. They will never recognize if those instructions are incorrect or inefficient. If they have to make a decision on their own they normally shut down and do nothing. About 10% of them are worth the money we pay them. It is rare to find one who can actually be a developer. I consider those guys the ones that actually have to think to do their job.The trend of Offshore Development is reversing: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2003/sb20031231_3576.htm More and more companies are finding that it is not always cheaper to shift development offshore when all the costs are considered. Another key factor is the quality of programming. Many companies who used offshore development found themselves in trouble when code revisions were needed or the scope of the programming had changed and there needed to be more development....often the code looked like a high school kid wrote it. Agreed. Whenever I need something done that involves following instructions I'll write some code to do it. The only tasks I can't automate are the ones that require someone to research a business process or walk people through alternative approaches and see what works best. In other words tasks that require excellent communications skills and understanding of American business and culture. My current project is a great example of CCBurner's reverse trend. Instead of our usual army of Chinese developers we have just two experienced Americans writing the whole thing. It's coming together quickly and without drama, and the code is highly readable. Also we've absorbed several changes in requirements without getting off schedule. The people doing the work can switch between low-level coding, automation, testing, sample data generation, UI design, documentation, and requirements as needed. I'm dreading going back to the other approach with the army of Chinese programmers so this current project almost feels like a vacation at 75 hours a week. |
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Quoted: Write some small app - anything. Make an app that tallies up golf scores or keeps track of your cd collection - anything. Bring a laptop with you that has the source code on it so you can demo it to them. I interview kids out of school every day. They have no life experience, no practical skill set, they've never written anything that somebody didn't assign them to do and they can't show up on time, shake hands, look you in the eye and say 'yes sir'. What software organizations or clubs have you participated in while you were in school? What IT meetings or functions have you volunteered to help out with? I'm not interested in hiring a 40 hour a week person - you need to convince me that you are serious about learning, serious about staying current on technology, and willing to go home at night and learn on your own. Do that and you'll get the job. I can hire a thousand guys in Bangalore for $12 an hour that can write what I tell them to write. Convince me that you can grasp business problems and solve them. Do that and you'll get the job. I'll second all of this. I'd hire the guy who seems to go through the world constantly thinking: how could that be automated, what could I do with that data, I bet I could tie this to this, I wonder if I could write a program to... In my head the interview is over if I start hearing "No, I don't know anything about language X because we didn't study that". Or someone who wants us to send him to a training course. With the Internet and how cheap computers are, if somone's really into this field they can get better every day even if they haven't broken into the industry yet and they're waiting tables or something. Most people don't have that fire and they're welcome to work elsewhere. |
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I'd also recommend reading this post:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html ^ the guy is a VB programmer, and he talks about interview questions he likes. |
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Demonstrate that you're...
1. Smart, and 2. Get things done. View from the other side of the table... Guerrilla Guide To Interviewing - via JoelOnSoftware.com |
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No degree and you got an interview? Well, you're doing something right... you wouldn't have made it through the door at my company. Anyway, read up on behavioral questions and get some good answers. "Tell me about a time where..." those kinds. Nice thing about them for you is that they emphasize experience not education. Good luck! ETA: My first line sounds like a back-handed insult. Not intended that way at all. |
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AAR:
I was interviewed my a team of 4 programmers(2 of them managers) and the HR guy. I was decked out in my suit in a room that was probably 85 degrees with the AC on (corner of the buildings first floor, ALLLL windows). Sweating like a whore. Well, the job they were hiring for was NOT an entry level position, and they were actually looking for a senior guy. But apparently one of the managers was "intrigued" (as he put it) by my resume that they decided to bring me in anyway. I must have impressed them enough that they offered me paid contract work and one of the managers is going to "take me under his wing" so to speak. They didn't have any full time spots available for grunt work. Really though, this is probably the best outcome I could have hoped for. AND I won't have to take what would have amounted to a pay cut to take an entry level CS job. I'm so excited and strung out I'm opening 2 beers at a time
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Quoted: Yup, yup, yup.Quoted: Write some small app - anything. Make an app that tallies up golf scores or keeps track of your cd collection - anything. Bring a laptop with you that has the source code on it so you can demo it to them. I interview kids out of school every day. They have no life experience, no practical skill set, they've never written anything that somebody didn't assign them to do and they can't show up on time, shake hands, look you in the eye and say 'yes sir'. What software organizations or clubs have you participated in while you were in school? What IT meetings or functions have you volunteered to help out with? I'm not interested in hiring a 40 hour a week person - you need to convince me that you are serious about learning, serious about staying current on technology, and willing to go home at night and learn on your own. Do that and you'll get the job. I can hire a thousand guys in Bangalore for $12 an hour that can write what I tell them to write. Convince me that you can grasp business problems and solve them. Do that and you'll get the job. I'll second all of this. I'd hire the guy who seems to go through the world constantly thinking: how could that be automated, what could I do with that data, I bet I could tie this to this, I wonder if I could write a program to... In my head the interview is over if I start hearing "No, I don't know anything about language X because we didn't study that". Or someone who wants us to send him to a training course. With the Internet and how cheap computers are, if somone's really into this field they can get better every day even if they haven't broken into the industry yet and they're waiting tables or something. Most people don't have that fire and they're welcome to work elsewhere. If I was hiring an entry-level programmer, I'd still want to talk primarily about what they've DONE already. The interviewee who has no experience, a degree in computer science, and hasn't done anything "but is willing to be trained" is –– well, that interview is over, though I'll continue for the minimum prescribed time. I am looking for people who actively learn without anyone having to light a fire under their ass. You got your skills somewhere, presumably working on personal projects. I'd want to talk about those projects and what you learned building them. I'd want to know what you'd do differently if you were to build them again, and why. Depending on the interviewee, I might also probe to find the level of understanding across the desk: Python and VB.NET? Why those two? Which do you like for what kind of project? Why? (I ask a lot of why questions.) The hiring manager knows what they're looking for more than you do. So ask them: "What do you see as the most important criteria for this position?" As they're describing the position or challenges, follow along. Nod, or say "I've done that" –– give examples of how you fit. Near the end, make sure they understand you can do the job: "Do you have any doubts about my ability to do the job?" Address any concerns, but DO NOT LIE. At the end, don't forget to express your interest in the position and company. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Interesting. In my experience our off-shore coders (not developers) can follow instructions to the letter. They will never recognize if those instructions are incorrect or inefficient. If they have to make a decision on their own they normally shut down and do nothing. About 10% of them are worth the money we pay them. It is rare to find one who can actually be a developer. I consider those guys the ones that actually have to think to do their job.The trend of Offshore Development is reversing: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2003/sb20031231_3576.htm More and more companies are finding that it is not always cheaper to shift development offshore when all the costs are considered. Another key factor is the quality of programming. Many companies who used offshore development found themselves in trouble when code revisions were needed or the scope of the programming had changed and there needed to be more development....often the code looked like a high school kid wrote it. +1. I do contract work at night and the quality of code is see from companies who decided they wanted to try the Indian route is scary. |
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Quoted: AAR: I was interviewed my a team of 4 programmers(2 of them managers) and the HR guy. I was decked out in my suit in a room that was probably 85 degrees with the AC on (corner of the buildings first floor, ALLLL windows). Sweating like a whore. Well, the job they were hiring for was NOT an entry level position, and they were actually looking for a senior guy. But apparently one of the managers was "intrigued" (as he put it) by my resume that they decided to bring me in anyway. I must have impressed them enough that they offered me paid contract work and one of the managers is going to "take me under his wing" so to speak. They didn't have any full time spots available for grunt work. Really though, this is probably the best outcome I could have hoped for. AND I won't have to take what would have amounted to a pay cut to take an entry level CS job. I'm so excited and strung out I'm opening 2 beers at a time Congrats. Contract work can a good way for a company to "try before it buys" so to speak, with little legal risk if it doesn't work out (as opposed to firing a new employee who's a dud). It's also a good way for a company to "increase headcount" even when there's a freeze on hiring. |
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Do your homework. Make sure you've read the website of the company that you are applying with. In terms of technology specific interview preparation, google is your friend. If you google "VB.NET interview questions" and "Python interview questions", you'll find a good collection of questions that you might be asked from a technical perspective. I'd also encourage you to make sure that you could write basic algorithms on a white board. I'd expect you to be able to write pseudocode for a sort algorithm, or to write pseudocode for a recursive function. Be prepared to do this on a white board. I've interviewed a LOT of software engineers. We screen them before they get to me, and I generally reject about 75% of the people who get to me. It's actually shocking how many people have been programming for years that can't write simple algorithms. This is correct. Be prepared for some basic questions like what's the difference between data types. Also, do express an interest in the job, be on time, take a shower, wear clean clothes, don't ask about their work from home policy. |
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Write some small app - anything. Make an app that tallies up golf scores or keeps track of your cd collection - anything. Bring a laptop with you that has the source code on it so you can demo it to them. I interview kids out of school every day. They have no life experience, no practical skill set, they've never written anything that somebody didn't assign them to do and they can't show up on time, shake hands, look you in the eye and say 'yes sir'. What software organizations or clubs have you participated in while you were in school? What IT meetings or functions have you volunteered to help out with? I'm not interested in hiring a 40 hour a week person - you need to convince me that you are serious about learning, serious about staying current on technology, and willing to go home at night and learn on your own. Do that and you'll get the job. I can hire a thousand guys in Bangalore for $12 an hour that can write what I tell them to write. Convince me that you can grasp business problems and solve them. Do that and you'll get the job. I'd do this but I'd recommend waaaay more that you should make a business class app with a team instead. |
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Like everyone else said be there on time. Be clean. Look sharp. Be polite, answer Yes sir/ma'am, No sir/ma'am. Do a little research on the company and the product/services they sell. Emphasize any previous experience you might have had on projects (work or school) that are similar to the systems they have. Make sure they know if you don't know an exact solution to a problem you can either come up with something on your own or know where to look to find experts that could help. MSDN or ASP.net forums etc... VB.net is fine, so is C#. Know both. Oracle and MSSQL helps too. Knowing more is always an advantage. |
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AAR: I was interviewed my a team of 4 programmers(2 of them managers) and the HR guy. I was decked out in my suit in a room that was probably 85 degrees with the AC on (corner of the buildings first floor, ALLLL windows). Sweating like a whore. Well, the job they were hiring for was NOT an entry level position, and they were actually looking for a senior guy. But apparently one of the managers was "intrigued" (as he put it) by my resume that they decided to bring me in anyway. I must have impressed them enough that they offered me paid contract work and one of the managers is going to "take me under his wing" so to speak. They didn't have any full time spots available for grunt work. Really though, this is probably the best outcome I could have hoped for. AND I won't have to take what would have amounted to a pay cut to take an entry level CS job. I'm so excited and strung out I'm opening 2 beers at a time Congrats! Welcome to the IT world. |
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I've interviewed a LOT of software engineers. We screen them before they get to me, and I generally reject about 75% of the people who get to me. It's actually shocking how many people have been programming for years that can't write simple algorithms. Agreed. Our phone screen knocks out about 3/4 of the initial candidates and I make offers to about 1/4 of the personal interviewees. It's amazing how many "senior" engineers cannot write a simple algorithm (even in pseudocode or their language of choice) or correctly interpret 12 lines of existing code. Don't get me started on unit testing capabilities... |
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Don't try to bullshit the interviewer if you don't know something. Worth repeating. I set up panel interviews and the candidate is typically sitting across the table from 3 or 4 decades of combined experience with highly tuned BS detectors. I have a strong tendency to drill down any "buzzword rabbit hole" I find in an answer. Do not attempt to BS your way through an answer. The OP is interviewing for an entry level position. It's expected you won't know everything. Acknowledge your limits, but show an interest in finding the answer and that you know how to go about finding the answer. |
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Quoted: Congrats dude, good job.AAR: I was interviewed my a team of 4 programmers(2 of them managers) and the HR guy. I was decked out in my suit in a room that was probably 85 degrees with the AC on (corner of the buildings first floor, ALLLL windows). Sweating like a whore. Well, the job they were hiring for was NOT an entry level position, and they were actually looking for a senior guy. But apparently one of the managers was "intrigued" (as he put it) by my resume that they decided to bring me in anyway. I must have impressed them enough that they offered me paid contract work and one of the managers is going to "take me under his wing" so to speak. They didn't have any full time spots available for grunt work. Really though, this is probably the best outcome I could have hoped for. AND I won't have to take what would have amounted to a pay cut to take an entry level CS job. I'm so excited and strung out I'm opening 2 beers at a time Now pay attention and work hard and that temp job might develop into something full time. |
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Quoted: Congrats! AAR: I was interviewed my a team of 4 programmers(2 of them managers) and the HR guy. I was decked out in my suit in a room that was probably 85 degrees with the AC on (corner of the buildings first floor, ALLLL windows). Sweating like a whore. Well, the job they were hiring for was NOT an entry level position, and they were actually looking for a senior guy. But apparently one of the managers was "intrigued" (as he put it) by my resume that they decided to bring me in anyway. I must have impressed them enough that they offered me paid contract work and one of the managers is going to "take me under his wing" so to speak. They didn't have any full time spots available for grunt work. Really though, this is probably the best outcome I could have hoped for. AND I won't have to take what would have amounted to a pay cut to take an entry level CS job. I'm so excited and strung out I'm opening 2 beers at a time It took me ~ six months and countless interviews to get my first programming job. I got lucky and ended up with my own office! I'll drink a Sam Adams to your success!   |
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I'd start learning some C#. VB.NET will do the same things, but the number of C# jobs out there far exceeds the number of VB.NET jobs. Case in point, I just searched Dice.com for Austin TX. 69 jobs with C# in the keywords, 8 with VB.NET. Definitely get some solid database knowledge under your belt. Read programming blogs regularly. http://dotnetkicks.com and http://dotnetshoutout.com/ are good aggregators of many .NET blogs. http://stackoverflow.com/ is your friend. |