[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is time for VOSTOK WATCH THREAD! (Page 1 of 10)
Posted: 11/1/2013 9:19:55 AM EDT
In Soviet Russia, watch wind you. 
My name is Winston, and I'm addicted to cheap russian watches. My life runs at 5.5bps. 
That was where it started. The Vostok Amphibia. Dirk Pitt had his Doxa, but Steve Zissou rocked a Vostok. 
Under $100. Screw down crown. More waterproof than my accountant's sphincter. Durable enough to beat a man to death with. A watch built in house from the ground up. A watch that flew in motherfucking space. A watch that switches dates like an AK ejects brass, no waffling around for three hours like a little bitch. *BAM* TODAY IS TOMORROW TOVARISCH! And ok, sure, maybe that happens a few minutes before or after the actual strike of midnight, but at least it's not shy about it. Yea, there are downsides. The lume sucks. All Russian watch lume that I've seen sucks. $50-$5000, it all sucks. Yea, while the date change is instant in the way I mentioned, it is NOT a quick SET date.  There's a little trick where you wind the watch back and forth over midnight and it changes the date faster, but suffice to say changing the date is a bit of a pain in the ass. Matters less if you wear it every day and it doesn't get behind though.  The middle position on the stem is instead taken up by the ability to wind the watch by hand, which is rare among automatics. It also shares the autowinder's overwind protection with the stem, so you cannot overwind this watch. (!)
The crown wobbles when unscrewed. Is feature, comrade. When screwed in, the stem floats free inside the watch mechanism. This prevents shocks to the crown from being transmitted right into the heart of the watch. It does make for an unsettling feeling until you're used to it. Users are warned not to set the watch and wind the watch without first returning the crown to it's screwed in position between actions. The caseback is sealed using a retaining ring and a large, thick gasket. A similar gasket sits inside the crown. This arrangement prevents accidental shearing or improper sealing during disassembly, and makes pressure testing of an opened watch unnecessary. As long as everything is tight, it should work. Gasket replacement is only necessary when the gasket itself shows signs of drying, cracking, or lack of flexibility. Replacement gasket kits are available under $10 from most of the Russian resellers. Here's a shot of an older Amphibia (non-autowind), with it's ass hanging out: 
I'll toss some more info up later, I'll include the differences between the Kommandirskie and Amphibia models, and some info on the various case styles. If you can't help yourself, I always recommend two sellers. Meranom.com and the ebay seller "Zenitar" have both sold me watches in the past, and I'd order from either in the future. Meranom ships out of Chistopol, Zenitar out of Moscow. Chistopol packages go through Moscow, so presumably Zenitar would be faster, but Meranom seems to get the limited editions and first crack at new models. Price is roughly the same when one figures in the shipping or lack thereof. That'll get things started. Back later. 
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Quoted:
Do want A Bostok will be my next watch Careful...
Legit vintage Vostoks can be labelled "Boctok", "Wostok", or "Vostok". I've recently seen some on ebay marked "Bostok". I think they're fakes, or at least redialed. There actually are fake Amphibias out there. 
I've also seen some wind up alarm watches of a type common to the Poljot brand with very crisp looking Vostok dials that I also wonder about. It gets confusing because there was cooperation between the Russian watch factories, and mixmaster watches were especially common in the late 80's, early 90's, but I'm pretty sure the two styles mentioned are the product of individuals rebuilding junk watches into something they can make a few bucks from. |
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meranom.com or zenitar on ebay I own a bunch of them.....including a rare 300m Vostok http://rustyhubbard.com/RU3_7904.JPG Pivo's collection still blows mine away. 
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Ok, as promised, some on the differences between Kommandirskies and Amphibias...
Kommandirskies are the cheaper model. They have a thinner (but still very beefy) crystal, a brass instead of stainless steel case (chrome or "gold" plated), a smaller crown with a domed tip, less effective waterproofing, and usually a manual wind 17 jewel movement instead of the Amphibia's 31 jewel auto. They make a line of Kommandirskie watches with auto movements in what look very much like Amphibia "420" cases for just a few bucks less than the better model. The smaller crown is the tip off. Kommandirskies are considered water resistant, but I've seen different depth ratings depending on the source of the info. I've seen 30m, 50m, and 100m. Don't know what to believe. Their gaskets are also of a slightly different type. The Amphibia gasket is specially produced so that it will not leak under the stress of rapid ascent. As water pressure increases, the Amphibia snugs itself up tighter against the force. During a rapid ascent, the original gaskets (as still used in the Kommandirskie) would not expand fast enough to take up the slack as force came off the caseback and the watch returned to it's normal state. This'd leave a small gap through which water would infiltrate. The Amphibia gasket is specially produced out of pressed shredded rubber bits apparently, and has the same longevity as the original, but it springs back much faster and avoids this issue. The plated brass case can be an issue too. Go browse ebay for old Kommandirskies, and pay close attention to the photos of casebacks. You'll notice the undersides are often scraped clean of plating, and on some you'll even see pitting and greenish oxidation of the brass. Really roughly treated examples will show brass through the plate all over. I hate that, and avoid the brass cases mostly. If you look at the old model I posted above on the red/black band, note the case style. That's an Amphibia. Now check this out: 
The watch on the left is very similar to mine except for the dial and the hands, and is an earlier Amphibia definitely. (dial is actually repainted and nonstandard, not sure if it was a factory mod or not). The one on the right is an older Kommandirskie. The best telltale is the "ears" around the crown. If you see those ears on an old watch with an "Amphibia" looking crown, it's probably a brass Kommandirskie. The hands can be suggestive, the arrow hour hand was almost never found on anything but Amphibias, but the straight hands from the Kommandirskie were occasionally found on Amphibias like mine. Another surefire way to tell which is which is the caseback though. 
The Amphibia says "Amphibia" in cyrillic or sometimes english, right on the back. The Kommandirskies had a few varied designs. The 17 jewel manual wind in modern Kommandirskies is a decent movement though, and with some amateur regulation and a regular winding schedule, they can be surprisingly accurate. The 17 jewel in most frequent use now is the 2414a. I've got no experience at all with it. I've got two watches that run on the 2209a 17 jewel movement though, and that's supposedly about the same thing just without the date feature. In the vintage vostok world, the 2209a was often seen in their "antimagnetic" versions like the one I show above on the red/black band. I'm wearing it now actually.  It gets wound on a regular schedule and I've made three separate small adjustments to it's regulation, and it's now pretty much just silly accurate for what it is.
Next up, more on the varied cases in which each model is available.
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Interesting info, Winston. Kinda' ironic that a Russkie watch has a B-58 Hustler on the face. They also made the official Desert Storm commemorative watch! After the fall of the Soviet Union they will put anything on a watch for a buck. Great watches, the waterproof gasket on the Amphibian is great design work and I am surprised that no one else uses it. |
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Fantastic. Thanks Winston.
I did notice on ebay that many of the komandirskies indicated that had a stainless steel backplate, is this a new change, or just a mislabeling? Are there any particular styles/configurations which are considered classics? Perhaps something like the original russian army issue configuration? |
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Fantastic. Thanks Winston. I did notice on ebay that many of the komandirskies indicated that had a stainless steel backplate, is this a new change, or just a mislabeling? Are there any particular styles/configurations which are considered classics? Perhaps something like the original russian army issue configuration? I believe the backplate/caseback is probably steel on all of them, old and new. It's the actual case itself that differs. There some in stainless cases too. Amphibias are always steel, Kommandirskies are a tossup. There were some models that were sold in the Russian equivalent of a "PX". They're marked a little differently down near 6 o'clock, and they command a slight premium among collectors. Soviet era civilian market vostoks were marked with something that looks like, "CAEAANO B CCCP". The ones sold to the military were marked something like, "3AKA3 MO CCCP", in english language searches, it's often spelled "zakaz". If you go looking through google image search for "zakaz vostok", you'll find piles of variations. There really are no hard and fast rules about the stuff though, production was not exactly well organized. In terms of "classics", the most popular model seems to be the Amphibia "Scuba Dude" in black and blue: 
The 300 meter Amphibias like Pivo posted are the rarest and most collectible of them all. I've heard production figures as low as 250 made, and most were apparently purchased and used by the Soviet military. They're the watch that replaced the gigantic Zlatoust dive watch (that Invicta lies their asses off about having a part in, and is currently selling crappy copies of). 
Of the current Kommandirskie Classics, all I can say is that it seems like the most classic, plain styles are the newest.  I really like these:
I'd splurge on the Amphibia though.
Next up.. cases! |
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I believe the backplate/caseback is probably steel on all of them, old and new. It's the actual case itself that differs. There some in stainless cases too. Amphibias are always steel, Kommandirskies are a tossup. There were some models that were sold in the Russian equivalent of a "PX". They're marked a little differently down near 6 o'clock, and they command a slight premium among collectors. Soviet era civilian market vostoks were marked with something that looks like, "CAEAANO B CCCP". The ones sold to the military were marked something like, "3AKA3 MO CCCP", in english language searches, it's often spelled "zakaz". If you go looking through google image search for "zakaz vostok", you'll find piles of variations. There really are no hard and fast rules about the stuff though, production was not exactly well organized. In terms of "classics", the most popular model seems to be the Amphibia "Scuba Dude" in black and blue: http://rongood.net/watch_photos/L/scuba_dude_1.jpg http://chistopolcity.com/img/p/192-838-large.jpg The 300 meter Amphibias like Pivo posted are the rarest and most collectible of them all. I've heard production figures as low as 250 made, and most were apparently purchased and used by the Soviet military. They're the watch that replaced the gigantic Zlatoust dive watch (that Invicta lies their asses off about having a part in, and is currently selling crappy copies of). http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2643/4127485496_9260cb7dc9.jpg Of the current Kommandirskie Classics, all I can say is that it seems like the most classic, plain styles are the newest. I really like these:
http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-komandirskie-classic/811172-600x900.jpg http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-komandirskie-classic/211783-600x900.jpg http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-komandirskie-classic/211398-600x900.jpg I'd splurge on the Amphibia though.
Next up.. cases! Quoted:
Quoted:
Fantastic. Thanks Winston. I did notice on ebay that many of the komandirskies indicated that had a stainless steel backplate, is this a new change, or just a mislabeling? Are there any particular styles/configurations which are considered classics? Perhaps something like the original russian army issue configuration? I believe the backplate/caseback is probably steel on all of them, old and new. It's the actual case itself that differs. There some in stainless cases too. Amphibias are always steel, Kommandirskies are a tossup. There were some models that were sold in the Russian equivalent of a "PX". They're marked a little differently down near 6 o'clock, and they command a slight premium among collectors. Soviet era civilian market vostoks were marked with something that looks like, "CAEAANO B CCCP". The ones sold to the military were marked something like, "3AKA3 MO CCCP", in english language searches, it's often spelled "zakaz". If you go looking through google image search for "zakaz vostok", you'll find piles of variations. There really are no hard and fast rules about the stuff though, production was not exactly well organized. In terms of "classics", the most popular model seems to be the Amphibia "Scuba Dude" in black and blue: http://rongood.net/watch_photos/L/scuba_dude_1.jpg http://chistopolcity.com/img/p/192-838-large.jpg The 300 meter Amphibias like Pivo posted are the rarest and most collectible of them all. I've heard production figures as low as 250 made, and most were apparently purchased and used by the Soviet military. They're the watch that replaced the gigantic Zlatoust dive watch (that Invicta lies their asses off about having a part in, and is currently selling crappy copies of). http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2643/4127485496_9260cb7dc9.jpg Of the current Kommandirskie Classics, all I can say is that it seems like the most classic, plain styles are the newest. I really like these:
http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-komandirskie-classic/811172-600x900.jpg http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-komandirskie-classic/211783-600x900.jpg http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-komandirskie-classic/211398-600x900.jpg I'd splurge on the Amphibia though.
Next up.. cases!
Holy crap, my dive computer is smaller than that! |
 in the "other" watch thread Hiram is delivering 21 dollar watches? I think, sometimes personally. Where are the cheap Vostoks?
actually, having learned Russian in H.S. and then College, and having achieved a passable level of proficiency, but then forgetting it while learning Finnish and living in Finland for a few years but meeting and talking to a ton of Russians, I have a passing interest in Russian stuff. I have some Zenit Cameras, and the Russian Design Ethos coincides with my own philosophy: form follows function, and it should not supercede it. Dont' be afraid to make it twice as strong as it needs to be. a few extra lbs never killed anyone, and anything I build should be capable of being used to beat someone senseless with. so Vostoks appeal to me. How do I avoid buying knock offs or bad ones? |
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in the "other" watch thread Hiram is delivering 21 dollar watches? I think, sometimes personally. Where are the cheap Vostoks?
actually, having learned Russian in H.S. and then College, and having achieved a passable level of proficiency, but then forgetting it while learning Finnish and living in Finland for a few years, I have a passing interest in Russian stuff. I have some Zenit Cameras, and the Russian Design Ethos coincides with my own philosophy: form follows function, and it should not supercede it. Dont' be afraid to make it twice as strong as it needs to be. a few extra lbs never killed anyone, and anything I build should be capable of being used to beat someone senseless with. so Vostoks appeal to me. How do I avoid buying knock offs or bad ones? These are manuals and automatics. Whole different price league. |
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in the "other" watch thread Hiram is delivering 21 dollar watches? I think, sometimes personally. Where are the cheap Vostoks?
actually, having learned Russian in H.S. and then College, and having achieved a passable level of proficiency, but then forgetting it while learning Finnish and living in Finland for a few years but meeting and talking to a ton of Russians, I have a passing interest in Russian stuff. I have some Zenit Cameras, and the Russian Design Ethos coincides with my own philosophy: form follows function, and it should not supercede it. Dont' be afraid to make it twice as strong as it needs to be. a few extra lbs never killed anyone, and anything I build should be capable of being used to beat someone senseless with. so Vostoks appeal to me. How do I avoid buying knock offs or bad ones? I did some research on this about a year ago. The consensus on the watchuseek.com forums is to buy from "Zenitar" on ebay. The OP also said that he bought from him, so he sounds good to go. I don't think you have to worry about knock offs, at least with a new one. Vintage, rare models might have some people knocking them off. |
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I'm kind of confused on which names mean what, as it pertains to the new watches.
So there are Vostoks, Komandirskies, and amphibias. Are they all made by the same company? You elaborated on the differences between the komandirskies and amphibias, but where do watches labeled "Vostok" fit into that? I'm assuming the 31 crystal watches are better than the 17 crystal versions? On meranom.com there are separate categories for Amphibia, Komandirskie, and Vostok, but the markings on the face don't always match the categories the watch is under. I'm really confused. |
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The case varieties for Kommandirskies can be found here.
None of 'em are too much like the old zakaz watches in terms of the case style. From staring at a zillion auctions, I think these were the most popular back in the day: 
Not much like that today in the Kommandirskie. Maybe the 86 case: 
but you gotta watch out for shit like this
Next... Amphibia cases. Because fuck these Kommandirskies. They're just Amphibias with some of the awesome knocked off.
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I stumbled across a site and thought they were awesome but forgot about it. I found the site again and sent an email. I got a reply that I will be contacted later, but never got anything else.
kevinsrussiantime.com That's the one I want, i don't see it on the other site OP mentioned it hard to get or ? ETA: Nevermind. The second source you mention is actually on the photo of that site, so I found it listed on Ebay... Thing is now I want two.
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Amphibia cases can be seen here.
My newer one from the OP and both of the scuba dudes above are the 420 case. It's not very wide and fits a skinny arm well enough. They're thicker than you might expect though, which keeps them from looking too tiny. The 960 is similar, but has reverse lugs on the band. This might be appealing, but it limits the options for a replacement band. You're going to want a replacement band. Watch out for them.
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Then there's the ministry case, the 710. Dial and crown are the same size as the others, but the band is larger and the case is definitely stouter. 
Recently, they released three new cases with 22mm bands and new dials with more classic, less cartoony bullshit, dials. The largest is the 090, this one with a limited sandblasted case: 
And then the 110: 
And one of mine, the new 100 case: 
The octagonal case on my old one in the OP is an antimagnetic model with a special little plate inside the caseback to protect the movement from becoming magnetized. The model is sometimes referred to as the Albatros. It's closer to something like the 100 in case size, but the 420 and probably the ministry have been around the longest. |
| very interesting thread. I bought one based on the recommendations here. I got it direct from Russia for around $40. The only dislike is that the bands are built for under fed Russians and only 18mm. Took several tries to get a band that worked well for me. They are nice and I like the manual feature. |
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I stumbled across a site and thought they were awesome but forgot about it. I found the site again and sent an email. I got a reply that I will be contacted later, but never got anything else. kevinsrussiantime.com That's the one I want, i don't see it on the other site OP mentioned it hard to get or ? ETA: Nevermind. The second source you mention is actually on the photo of that site, so I found it listed on Ebay... Thing is now I want two. That's the same as mine, just blue numbers instead of yellow. Anyone's got them cheaper than ole Kevin there.
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Amphibia cases can be seen here. My newer one from the OP and both of the scuba dudes above are the 420 case. It's not very wide and fits a skinny arm well enough. They're thicker than you might expect though, which keeps them from looking too tiny. The 960 is similar, but has reverse lugs on the band. This might be appealing, but it limits the options for a replacement band. You're going to want a replacement band. Watch out for them.
http://murphymanufacturing.com/vostok_bezel/bezel960(400x300).jpg Then there's the ministry case, the 710. Dial and crown are the same size as the others, but the band is larger and the case is definitely stouter. http://chistopolcity.com/img/p/372-1548-large.jpg Recently, they released three new cases with 22mm bands and new dials with more classic, less cartoony bullshit, dials. The largest is the 090, this one with a limited sandblasted case: http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn194/om-4/Vostok%20090/DSC01099_zps92ffd52b.jpg And then the 110: http://www.meranom.com/image/cache/data/vostok-watches-Amphibian-Classic/110/2416-110903b-Amphibian-max-300.jpg And one of mine, the new 100 case: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/winstonsmith7/photo-3-small_zps451d5505.jpg The octagonal case on my old one in the OP is an antimagnetic model with a special little plate inside the caseback to protect the movement from becoming magnetized. The model is sometimes referred to as the Albatros. It's closer to something like the 100 in case size, but the 420 and probably the ministry have been around the longest. I like that last one. |
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I've got a couple that I got years ago, but could never get used to the inaccuracy, so I never wear them.
You just nudge the plusey-minusey thing. Wear it in for a few weeks, then nudge it. Just be ready to do it a few times over a few days depending on the result. ETA- oh, and see where it's labeled "2416b", and "RU"? See the screw between 'em? Directly below that, there's a little nipple lookin thing. If I'm not mistaken, that's the plunger you push to release the crown and stem. Press that with a small pin, slide them right out. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but you need to do so to change gaskets. |
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http://russianwatchguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Mechanism_2416B1.jpg You just nudge the plusey-minusey thing. Wear it in for a few weeks, then nudge it. Just be ready to do it a few times over a few days depending on the result. ETA- oh, and see where it's labeled "2416b", and "RU"? See the screw between 'em? Directly below that, there's a little nipple lookin thing. If I'm not mistaken, that's the plunger you push to release the crown and stem. Press that with a small pin, slide them right out. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but you need to do so to change gaskets. Quoted:
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I've got a couple that I got years ago, but could never get used to the inaccuracy, so I never wear them.
http://russianwatchguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Mechanism_2416B1.jpg You just nudge the plusey-minusey thing. Wear it in for a few weeks, then nudge it. Just be ready to do it a few times over a few days depending on the result. ETA- oh, and see where it's labeled "2416b", and "RU"? See the screw between 'em? Directly below that, there's a little nipple lookin thing. If I'm not mistaken, that's the plunger you push to release the crown and stem. Press that with a small pin, slide them right out. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but you need to do so to change gaskets. Ok do you nudge the + if its running slow? |
as we speak.
have several others at home. and my father in law is sending me a vintage soviet aviators watch made by molnija, all the way from ukraine. so looking forward to that. i have this Tag in my collection and since i got into Russian watches it gets worn only a handful of times per month. 
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Quoted:
Careful...
Legit vintage Vostoks can be labelled "Boctok", "Wostok", or "Vostok". I've recently seen some on ebay marked "Bostok". I think they're fakes, or at least redialed. There actually are fake Amphibias out there.
I've also seen some wind up alarm watches of a type common to the Poljot brand with very crisp looking Vostok dials that I also wonder about. It gets confusing because there was cooperation between the Russian watch factories, and mixmaster watches were especially common in the late 80's, early 90's, but I'm pretty sure the two styles mentioned are the product of individuals rebuilding junk watches into something they can make a few bucks from. Quoted:
Quoted:
Do want A Bostok will be my next watch Careful...
Legit vintage Vostoks can be labelled "Boctok", "Wostok", or "Vostok". I've recently seen some on ebay marked "Bostok". I think they're fakes, or at least redialed. There actually are fake Amphibias out there.
I've also seen some wind up alarm watches of a type common to the Poljot brand with very crisp looking Vostok dials that I also wonder about. It gets confusing because there was cooperation between the Russian watch factories, and mixmaster watches were especially common in the late 80's, early 90's, but I'm pretty sure the two styles mentioned are the product of individuals rebuilding junk watches into something they can make a few bucks from. Good info thanks. |
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Why does the watch face looks like its 60 years old? Quoted:
Why does the watch face looks like its 60 years old?
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Ok do you nudge the + if its running slow? Yup. Quoted:
Is it advisable to get the 22mm strap models over the 18mm? I haven't spent much time looking for straps, so I don't know what the best selection is. The 22mm is probably more what we're used to. The 18mm is pretty skinny. If I were to guess, I think 20-22mm is about average. |
. ARFCOM is bad for my bank account (opens a new tab to search for Russian watch dealers).
Plenty of staps available in 18mm and 22mm. I like the 710 cases best, but the round 420 is a classic design. I need to order one of the new cases but I need to fix a few vintage pieces,first. Here are a some of my watches. Mostly Vostoks, along with a few Poljots and a Luch perpetual in the mix.
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Plenty of staps available in 18mm and 22mm. I like the 710 cases best, but the round 420 is a classic design. I need to order one of the new cases but I need to fix a few vintage pieces,first. Here are a some of my watches. Mostly Vostoks, along with a few Poljots and a Luch perpetual in the mix. http://www.rustyhubbard.com/watchfamily.jpg The chronograph all the way on the bottom left is interesting. |
