Posted: 8/26/2011 2:02:36 PM EDT
| I have noticed lately in GD there is a lot of hate towards "Pit Bulls". I own an American Staffordshire which basically the same thing. He is a resuced dog (ASPCA) and was AKC until the vet got a hold of him (snip, snip....... ) . I have owned many types of breeds (Labs, GSD, Greyhounds, and Hounds) which were all great dogs, but I love me some pits. |
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people are idiots, that is why. i have worked in an animal shelter for 3 years and i have been bitten once by a pitbul, it was an accident when we were playing. on the other hand i have been bitten more times than i can count by those rats some people refer to as dogs(basically anything under 30 pounds is referred to as a rat). i have spent 3 nights on the couch in that same shelter with a 65 pound pitbul who was an exbait-dog sleeping on my chest.
it is how they are raised, not the breed. if there is a viscious dog, the problem is the owner. |
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My Dad was attacked by a pitbull last week and had to go to the hospital. they are dogs of peace I tell you.  I have been to the hospital twice for dog bites. The first time was by the neigbors Lab when I was a child. The dog got lose and chased me down in my own yard grabbing on to my leg (didn't stop my parents from having Labs of our own). The second time I was at a friends house when his Dalmation figured my hand was his new chew toy. It took 4 to 5 punches to the head before it let off. I guess it's all right for these breeds to bit people since their icons for the Fire Dept. and Search and Rescue!!!! I don't what I i was thinking!
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Quoted: Quoted: My Dad was attacked by a pitbull last week and had to go to the hospital. they are dogs of peace I tell you. I have been to the hospital twice for dog bites. The first time was by the neigbors Lab when I was a child. The dog got lose and chased me down in my own yard grabbing on to my leg (didn't stop my parents from having Labs of our own). The second time I was at a friends house when his Dalmation figured my hand was his new chew toy. It took 4 to 5 punches to the head before it let off. I guess it's all right for these breeds to bit people since their icons for the Fire Dept. and Search and Rescue!!!! I don't what I i was thinking! All 4 people I know who have ever had to go to the hospital for dog bites have been "pit bull type" dogs. Of course 3 of those attacks happened in the ghetto town I grew up in so there may have been some sample bias of "fucktards owning 'cool looking' dogs". Two of the people (my Uncle's girlfriend and my cousin's step kid) were pretty tore up. My dad's attack happened in Rural PA and I am not sure about the responsibility level of the owner. Luckily my dad wasn't too badly injured (it got him on the back of the leg as he was putting bent over putting a board in a trailer.) Luckily for the dog the owner was able to get him off before my dad drew his CCW! |
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My Dad was attacked by a pitbull last week and had to go to the hospital. they are dogs of peace I tell you. I have been to the hospital twice for dog bites. The first time was by the neigbors Lab when I was a child. The dog got lose and chased me down in my own yard grabbing on to my leg (didn't stop my parents from having Labs of our own). The second time I was at a friends house when his Dalmation figured my hand was his new chew toy. It took 4 to 5 punches to the head before it let off. I guess it's all right for these breeds to bit people since their icons for the Fire Dept. and Search and Rescue!!!! I don't what I i was thinking! All 4 people I know who have ever had to go to the hospital for dog bites have been "pit bull type" dogs. Of course 3 of those attacks happened in the ghetto town I grew up in so there may have been some sample bias of "fucktards owning 'cool looking' dogs". Two of the people (my Uncle's girlfriend and my cousin's step kid) were pretty tore up. My dad's attack happened in Rural PA and I am not sure about the responsibility level of the owner. Luckily my dad wasn't too badly injured (it got him on the back of the leg as he was putting bent over putting a board in a trailer.) Luckily for the dog the owner was able to get him off before my dad drew his CCW!
By the way I hope your Dad heals fast!! |
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Ignorance and "ghetto breeders." I do agree with that one. My wife was one, until living with Ryder (I rescued the dog without her knowing, I was tried of not have a dog in the house). The best part of it, is that she even says we will always have a pit for now on. |
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I don't own a Pitbull, but it doesn't stop me from liking them. I'll pet any dog that doesn't growl at me. We have dogs in the neighborhood of I live and they will scratch on my door and I give them a dog cookie and they go their merry way. I'm allergic to cats but that doesn't stop me from petting them.
It,s all in how you raise your pet. |
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GD is ignorance amplified.
My wife is terrified of "large dogs," I wanted a pit bull or boxer. We compromised on a miniature schnauzer. The weird thing is that she is scared of ANY big dog. The neighbors' lab mut scared her as it galloped at her like a small pony. I'll give any dog the benefit of the doubt until it attacks but by the same token I'm still careful. Hell, my parents' yorkie/dachshund mix (dorkie is the term I believe) is more likely to bit than most of the pit bulls and boxers I've met. Maybe it's bc they can tell I won't tolerate them attacking. And there it would go back to nurture and not nature. |
The breeding and the way the animal is treated makes all the difference!My sons 130#Pitbull stud is the sweetest dog you will ever meet but my MILs Taco bell dog will tear you apart!
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I trust all dogs and believe in the Nurture over Nature theory. People in GD will repeat what other people in GD say without having any first hand experience. I am not a pit bull owner either. Warning: rant follows... Nurture does NOT always win out over nature. Anyone who thinks otherwise is playing with fire and quite frankly a fool. It just this sort of attitude that causes problems for many breeds, particularly Pit Bulls. Stereotypes exist for a reason. "Dangerous" breeds are thought that way for VERY GOOD REASONS. And while I am on a soapbox when I say this I've earned my spot there as the proud owner of just such a breed. I do not fool myself. I am a responsible owner. My dog is very carefully controlled and trained lest it's less desirable and stereotypical characteristics exert themselves. She is a good dog and a joy to own. But she is true to her breed and just because she holds multiple national obedience top 10 rankings and a therapy dog certification doesn't mean crap. If allowed she will validate her stereotype. Be forewarned and be realistic: if you are starting with something that is in a breed's nature you may or may not win out no matter how hard you try, and even if you do think you've won your safety margins will ALWAYS be smaller. I have met many Pit's that I thought were absolutely great dogs. I've also met many that were not. At best it's a 50/50 chance. The temperament of the breed is nowhere near as homogeneous as it is for Lab's, Goldens, etc. Sure, there are nasty examples of ANY breed, but there are far fewer such examples for breeds with temperaments that do not tend towards aggression to start with. We all know the breed's reputation is horribly amplified by those who choose to use and encourage the breed's temperament as designed. There are any number of other breeds who could easily be in the same boat: Akita's, Corso's, etc. It just so happens that Pit Bull are the chosen "junk yard dog" breed of those who want such things. Those bad apples are making a tough choice tougher. Finally, why does anyone want a Pit Bull, or GSD, or Dobie, or Akita, or any of a dozen other breeds that are capable of great violence? Some people want them for just such capabilities. Some approach that in a responsible fashion, many or even most do not. Others want them because they think they are "cool". This latter category of dog owner is almost worse than those who irresponsibly want a "guard dog". At least those who want a "guard dog" acknowledge a breed's propensity for violence. If you think a naturally aggressive breed is "cool" and are certain you can nurture any example into a warm, fuzzy goofball please do us all a favor and get a Lab or a Golden. |
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I was waiting for someone to commit on pitts temperaments, or any other "Dangerous" breeds. I really wish people would go to the source of testing and actually read what the results say.
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I trust all dogs and believe in the Nurture over Nature theory. People in GD will repeat what other people in GD say without having any first hand experience. I am not a pit bull owner either. Warning: rant follows... Nurture does NOT always win out over nature. Anyone who thinks otherwise is playing with fire and quite frankly a fool. It just this sort of attitude that causes problems for many breeds, particularly Pit Bulls. Stereotypes exist for a reason. "Dangerous" breeds are thought that way for VERY GOOD REASONS. And while I am on a soapbox when I say this I've earned my spot there as the proud owner of just such a breed. I do not fool myself. I am a responsible owner. My dog is very carefully controlled and trained lest it's less desirable and stereotypical characteristics exert themselves. She is a good dog and a joy to own. But she is true to her breed and just because she holds multiple national obedience top 10 rankings and a therapy dog certification doesn't mean crap. If allowed she will validate her stereotype. Be forewarned and be realistic: if you are starting with something that is in a breed's nature you may or may not win out no matter how hard you try, and even if you do think you've won your safety margins will ALWAYS be smaller. I have met many Pit's that I thought were absolutely great dogs. I've also met many that were not. At best it's a 50/50 chance. The temperament of the breed is nowhere near as homogeneous as it is for Lab's, Goldens, etc. Sure, there are nasty examples of ANY breed, but there are far fewer such examples for breeds with temperaments that do not tend towards aggression to start with. We all know the breed's reputation is horribly amplified by those who choose to use and encourage the breed's temperament as designed. There are any number of other breeds who could easily be in the same boat: Akita's, Corso's, etc. It just so happens that Pit Bull are the chosen "junk yard dog" breed of those who want such things. Those bad apples are making a tough choice tougher. Finally, why does anyone want a Pit Bull, or GSD, or Dobie, or Akita, or any of a dozen other breeds that are capable of great violence? Some people want them for just such capabilities. Some approach that in a responsible fashion, many or even most do not. Others want them because they think they are "cool". This latter category of dog owner is almost worse than those who irresponsibly want a "guard dog". At least those who want a "guard dog" acknowledge a breed's propensity for violence. If you think a naturally aggressive breed is "cool" and are certain you can nurture any example into a warm, fuzzy goofball please do us all a favor and get a Lab or a Golden. |
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I was waiting for someone to commit on pitts temperaments, or any other "Dangerous" breeds. I really wish people would go to the source of testing and actually read what the results say. test results Those stat's are hopelessly skewed. Consider the following: 1. Protective breeds are expected to be protective. The video of my friend's Dobie lighting up big time during the protection part of the test, which he passed with flying colors, is an example of how a good score does not require a passive dog. The ATTS allows aggressive behavior at appropriate points in the test. 2. Lab's, for example, with a breed score above 90%, shows an extreme consistency in breed temperament. Pitt Bulls don't come close. 3. In general, only responsible dog owners execute things like ATTS. Such owners are going to obtain the best stock and nurture it accordingly. 4. Finally, and most importantly, people train their dogs to pass the ATTS. This is hardly a true measure of the dog's temperament. Instead it is more a measure of the owner's control over the dog. As another example of this, my dog, which is very dog aggressive, will calmly perform the AKC Open obedience 3 and 5 minute out-of-sight stay exercises along with 10 other strange dogs. However that is a very artificial situation. Dump my dog into an area with the same 10 dogs all just loose and playing and the results would not be nearly as pretty. The bottom line is that the ATTS does not prove in the least that the Pit Bull is not in innately aggressive breed. Nor does it prove the same for many other breeds (I don't want to single out Pit's, there are plenty of other examples). |
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I think it is horrible that people detest an entire breed because of the actions of a relative few. If we do that with humans (which CAN logically think, reason, deduce, etc.) it is racism, ageism, intolerance, or what have you. My personal experience with pitbull breeds is so positive that as of right now, I do not think I will ever own another breed of dog. The two that I have owned have been the most loving, loyal dogs I have ever seen. My boss has 3 pitbulls (and 5 kids 12 years old and younger) and his experience has been the same. My dogs want nothing better than to lay with you and enjoy the company of my wife and I. I feel that a large percentage, if not an overwhelming majority of the "vicious pitbull attacks" have been caused by bad owners. Are there unstable dogs? Sure. But I have yet to meet one.
As you can see in these pictures, I was very close to the jaws of death, and survived to tell the tale. Rescued 65lb AmStaff, Barrett. 10 months old. RIP 6/11 
New addition. Rescued 40lb pit mix, Isis. 2 years old. 
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I was waiting for someone to commit on pitts temperaments, or any other "Dangerous" breeds. I really wish people would go to the source of testing and actually read what the results say. test results Those stat's are hopelessly skewed. Consider the following: 1. Protective breeds are expected to be protective. The video of my friend's Dobie lighting up big time during the protection part of the test, which he passed with flying colors, is an example of how a good score does not require a passive dog. The ATTS allows aggressive behavior at appropriate points in the test. 2. Lab's, for example, with a breed score above 90%, shows an extreme consistency in breed temperament. Pitt Bulls don't come close. 3. In general, only responsible dog owners execute things like ATTS. Such owners are going to obtain the best stock and nurture it accordingly. 4. Finally, and most importantly, people train their dogs to pass the ATTS. This is hardly a true measure of the dog's temperament. Instead it is more a measure of the owner's control over the dog. As another example of this, my dog, which is very dog aggressive, will calmly perform the AKC Open obedience 3 and 5 minute out-of-sight stay exercises along with 10 other strange dogs. However that is a very artificial situation. Dump my dog into an area with the same 10 dogs all just loose and playing and the results would not be nearly as pretty. The bottom line is that the ATTS does not prove in the least that the Pit Bull is not in innately aggressive breed. Nor does it prove the same for many other breeds (I don't want to single out Pit's, there are plenty of other examples). Why would you want to own a dog that is "very dog aggressive"? How you have wrote about Pitts I figured that you didn't like them, but since you said that you must own one.
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I trust all dogs and believe in the Nurture over Nature theory. People in GD will repeat what other people in GD say without having any first hand experience. I am not a pit bull owner either. Side topic: You believe in Nurture over Nature in dogs? Really? You really think you can train a black lab to be a better sheepdog than a Border Collie? You really think you can train a Border Collie to be a better quail bird than a German Wirehair Pointer? You think you can train an Alaskan Husky to point? 
In dogs, their genetic programming is HUGE. Now, for why GD hates pitbulls? Threefold reason: #1 the pitbull type attracts a LOT of morons, wannabe tough guys, posers, and outright drug dealing criminals. This has damaged the reputation of the dog. #2 many people who do NOT own pitbulls incorrectly understand what these dogs are and view them as ticking time bombs. This pollutes the communal response #3 many DIFFERENT people see the dogs as no different from any other dogs, ignoring the few hundred years of selective breeding for dog-vs-dog aggression, leading to unrealistic expectations, it's own issues, and again, more negative communal response. heck the average person has a hard time wrapping their head around the idea of species specific aggression, the fact that pitbull types have been specifically bred to NOT be human-aggressive. (when fighting dogs was legal, why create a dog that only the first owner could control? No, you wanted a dog that could be sold to and handled by anyone with money. Think about a race-horse that would only tolerate the original owner to ride it...no matter how fast it was it wouldn't have much value vs a horse that could be ridden by any jockey) Yet pitbull haters who fear the dogs will kill a million children if given a chance ignore this fact...AND so do the guys who buy pitbulls for home defense or drug dealers who buy them for drug turf defense. (Which is why a lot of the pits you see are actually mixes, because if you dilute the anti-human-aggression you get a better attack dog) And yet many pitbull owners who 'rescue' them treat them like any other dog, and will often have two...until one kills the other, or will act surprised when the pit type that was always so nice around kids and cats and the pet rabbit attacks the neighbor's beagle for no reason. |
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Let me share a few stories
Background:
Bella is my one year old APBT, she's fairly DA already. Whiskey is my 3 year old rescue, probably some type of Bully breed, pretty cold but is reactive to the sounds of other dogs fighting. Bella and whiskey have been together for 9 months, never had a problem, they share food, toys, bones, treats. Whiskey is usually submissive to her, and she has never shown aggression towards him under any situation and visa verse. Being into Bulldogs for over 15 years I am always aware of what could happen, as unlikely as it seems, just as it did last night. Incident: My wife and I were sitting on the couch watching Dog Whisperer( I know, but whenever it has to do with Pit Bulls I watch it) about 2 Pit Bulls that weren't getting along because one was DA. Bella was on the other and of the sectional and Whiskey was sitting at our feet on the floor. The whole show they kept replaying footage of the 2 dogs engaged in a fight. About half way through they had a scene in his complex where a fight erupted between about 6 Pit Bulls. I'm sitting there telling my wife that I cant believe Ceaser or any of his crew don't have break sticks then my wife said how glad she was our 2 didn't fight. (Of course) At that point Bella got up and slid off the couch and walked over to Whiskey and there was an explosion. Whiskey had Bella by the top of the head and neck, Bella was frantically trying to get a hold on the bottom of his neck, but couldn't quite reach. I grabbed both collars then my wife went around and got Whiskeys collar and I had Bella. Whiskey would not let go(which is really not like him) and Bella was still struggling for a hold, I kept he just out of reach of his neck. I yelled for my son to get the break stick from the kitchen and by the time he got to us, Whiskey let up for a second and we got them apart, but Bella managed to tear a hole in his ear in the process. After an hour of cleaning up blood and wounds, I was still amazed at Whiskey being the aggressor in the situation. If they were alone together, or we weren't prepared and Bella got a good hold, I'm sure we would be less one dog today. Moral: Always expect something to happen, and it will usually happen over the stupidest things, like the sound of dogs on a TV show, even if it has never happened before in 9 months or 9 years, IT WILL EVENTUALLY HAPPEN. If it happens, be calm, have a plan, and have and know how to use a breakstick. If you're prepared and expecting it, damage will usually be minimal, if you're not, it can be deadly... As many of you know, I have three dogs, all of them Pit Bulls. For the most part, they get along well. Just minor scraps over triggers like toys or bones etc. I have always made a point to keep triggers to a minimum and not let things get out of hand.
In my backyard, I had three kennels set up and had got into the habit of leaving my dogs in the kennels while I wasn't at home. However , every since our house got broke into, I have made it a point to leave Bella my female dog inside the house when I am not home and leave the male dogs outside in the kennel. However, I have a confession to make, I had gotten lackadaisical lately. It started where I would let the dogs play in the backyard unsupervised for an hour or so when I cleaned the house or vacuumed, because Bella goes crazy barking whenever I do so. Over time, I guess I just let my guard down and would leave the dogs for longer periods of time, always without incident. However recently something happen that will change the way I handle my dogs for the rest of my life. I went to work like any other morning, and I put the dogs in the crate..my girlfriend was just going to drive me up there and drop me off. When she got home she let the dogs out of the crates and they hung around the house with her for a few hours. She had to run up to her school which is about 20 minutes away to pick up some papers. It was a nice day so she let the dogs into the backyard and left to go to school. She was only gone less than an hour In reality , it is my mistake. The dogs are MY passion. I should have stressed the importance of not leaving them alone even for a minute. She has never been around Pit Bulls and everything she DOES know comes from me. I am the one who reads the books, browses the forums, works the dogs. It kills me. I guess I will stop beating around the bush. My big boy Bane is dead. I received a phone call from tiffany on my lunch break, she was hysterical. Screaming that bane was dead and Bella had killed him. I asked her if she was sure he was dead, and she told me yes that she was sure. I told her to put the other dogs in their crates and to come pick me up. I was sick to my stomach , the whole way home I was thinking it wasn't real and when I got home I would find Bane there and he would be ok. When I got home, I didn't even check on the dogs, I went straight to the backyard. I could see Bane laying on his side. I approached him and he was very cold and stiff to the touch. There wasn't much blood that I could see. He had some puncture wounds in his legs but he was covered in dirt so I really couldn't see where his injuries were. I went and got some warm water and soap and some rags. I cleaned him off the best I could. I removed his collar thinking I would find the wounds there under the collar. Tiffany brought some blankets. I closed his eyes and said a few words, his death was my fault. When I went to move him onto the blankets, that is when I could see his wounds. Under his front legs, in the pits on both sides were huge wounds. It looked like both of his front legs had been ripped almost all the way off. I wrapped him in the blankets, and buried him. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do is dig a grave for my own dog. I then went and took care of my other dogs. I know it was Bella that did it, even though really that is irrelevant. The blame belongs only to me. She had blood matted and dried all around her mouth. She had very minor wounds. Elvis also had puncture wounds on his face and his side, also on his legs. I don't know if Bella fought Elvis as well, or if they ganged up on Bane. This really tore me up. However I know that I am the only person to blame for his death. Tiffany took it worse than I did however. She just can't understand that this can be a reality with these dogs if you handle it irresponsibly. I understand people are going to say some things and have some words for me. I understand and respect that. I just ask you realize we are still mourning our dog and to have some kind of respect for that. Like I said the only reason I posted, is because I don't want to hide in the dark. My dog is dead, and that is reality. I just hope someone can read this and learn from my experience. To realize that it doesn't matter how well you think your dogs get along or how much you can trust them. NEVER leave your Pit Bull alone with another animal. R.I.P Bane, your blood is on my hands. http://www.pitbull-chat.com is a great resource if you DO decide to get a pit. BUT make sure you are the right kind of owner for these dogs, and plan on having only ONE dog. |
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I GET IT, the Pittbull was the only dog breed that was bred for fighting, small to lager game hunting, and protection. The rest of the breeds are just AKC and UKC "carry around in a handbag" class dogs.
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I trust all dogs and believe in the Nurture over Nature theory. People in GD will repeat what other people in GD say without having any first hand experience. I am not a pit bull owner either. Side topic: You believe in Nurture over Nature in dogs? Really? You really think you can train a black lab to be a better sheepdog than a Border Collie? You really think you can train a Border Collie to be a better quail bird than a German Wirehair Pointer? You think you can train an Alaskan Husky to point?
In dogs, their genetic programming is HUGE. Now, for why GD hates pitbulls? Threefold reason: #1 the pitbull type attracts a LOT of morons, wannabe tough guys, posers, and outright drug dealing criminals. This has damaged the reputation of the dog. #2 many people who do NOT own pitbulls incorrectly understand what these dogs are and view them as ticking time bombs. This pollutes the communal response #3 many DIFFERENT people see the dogs as no different from any other dogs, ignoring the few hundred years of selective breeding for dog-vs-dog aggression, leading to unrealistic expectations, it's own issues, and again, more negative communal response. heck the average person has a hard time wrapping their head around the idea of species specific aggression, the fact that pitbull types have been specifically bred to NOT be human-aggressive. (when fighting dogs was legal, why create a dog that only the first owner could control? No, you wanted a dog that could be sold to and handled by anyone with money. Think about a race-horse that would only tolerate the original owner to ride it...no matter how fast it was it wouldn't have much value vs a horse that could be ridden by any jockey) Yet pitbull haters who fear the dogs will kill a million children if given a chance ignore this fact...AND so do the guys who buy pitbulls for home defense or drug dealers who buy them for drug turf defense. (Which is why a lot of the pits you see are actually mixes, because if you dilute the anti-human-aggression you get a better attack dog) And yet many pitbull owners who 'rescue' them treat them like any other dog, and will often have two...until one kills the other, or will act surprised when the pit type that was always so nice around kids and cats and the pet rabbit attacks the neighbor's beagle for no reason. |
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Why would you want to own a dog that is "very dog aggressive"? How you have wrote about Pitts I figured that you didn't like them, but since you said that you must own one. A totally fair question that deserves an answer. First, let it be said that I like about 50% of the Pit's I've met. The rest are just jaws with paws to me. This is probably indicative of the larger variability in temperament among this breed. At any rate they are not a breed that I would choose to own, but I completely respect the right of responsible dog owners to own them. As for your primary question, it's not so much that I want to own a dog that is dog aggressive, but that and other qualities often come with the total package, so that's the potential you sign up for when you make a lifetime commitment to a puppy. In my case I have an Akita. The Akita is a fantastic breed with many, many fine qualities: loyal, protective, strong, capable of good self direction (a double edged sword, that), clean, easy to keep groomed, quiet (when an Akita barks, pay attention) and very, very respectful of their owner (I leave her food on the counter all day––she would never think to touch it). However all of these fantastic qualities come at the cost of other traits: people aggression, dog aggression, high prey drive, a somewhat reserved attitude (they are not lap dogs), and dominance that makes them difficult to train. When you get a dog as a puppy you try to choose one that has a good temperament. There are many ways that people use to make these decisions, but it is an inexact science particularly among breeds that have higher variability in temperament. In my case I almost got exactly what I wanted. My dog is people friendly and has low prey drive. However she is reserved, hardheaded, and dog aggressive. Through substantial training I have largely but not completely mitigated the latter issues, but she is like the Highlander: there can be only one. If you want a better shot at getting exactly the dog you want rescue an adult. However even that can be somewhat of a crap shoot as you may find out things in two weeks, two months or two years that you didn't expect. aa P.S. Akodo––great way of making the point about nature vs. nurture. A training pal sent our training list a photo of her 6 month old pointer already pointing on birds without any training whatsoever. Nature is a wondrous thing. |
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My Dad was attacked by a pitbull last week and had to go to the hospital. they are dogs of peace I tell you. I've been attacked twice by GSDs. Is GD going to get all up in arms over them?  i have been bit more times than i can count by laso apsos(or however you spell it), and you don't see me spewing ignorance and hate about them. also, DRIVESHEAVE, your cat looks more threatening than your dog. |
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I do not fool myself. I am a responsible owner. My dog is very carefully controlled and trained lest it's less desirable and stereotypical characteristics exert themselves. She is a good dog and a joy to own. But she is true to her breed and just because she holds multiple national obedience top 10 rankings and a therapy dog certification doesn't mean crap. If allowed she will validate her stereotype. Be forewarned and be realistic: if you are starting with something that is in a breed's nature you may or may not win out no matter how hard you try, and even if you do think you've won your safety margins will ALWAYS be smaller. This is worth repeating. Dog breeds have genetic characteristics, their brains are wired a certain way. Handling an independent guarding breed (like an Anatolian, Pyrenees, etc.) like a Golden Retriever is a huge mistake. I watched an Anatolian "show dog" that had never had any aggression, and had perfect ring manners, bite a dog show judge a few months ago. I was watching with the breeder of my Kuvasz (who has 40+ years experience with them) and she took that opportunity to remind me that I had a guarding breed and to not ever forget that. |
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People FEAR what they don't know or understand.
Out for our nightly late night walk fer winters ago a city cop drove by and decided to check us out because it was very late at night. His partner drew his gun and kept it pointed at my dog the entire time they ran me for warrents then found out i didn't tell them i had CCW and wanted animal control to come out to rope my dog (my daughter) while they ran me because i didn't tell them i had a ccw and packing. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/l_b11d084e3f7ef7fe3122ecb65c17f85e.jpg 7 or 8 years old. The only one she ever bit was me and that's because my dumb-ass was watching TV while playing ball and we both went for her ball at the same time. On the other hand the number of lost hunters and hikers lost in the Mt Hood National forest and Tillamook National forest is 18. 18 lost hunters/hikers/campers/broken down trail riders because my Dobie loved LOVED!! getting a call in the middle of the night and their was someone or group lost in need of help and even in the snow where our lives were on the line. day or night rain or shine... She NEVER cared!! And even though she passed may 2011, 16 of them and their families sent flowers and Thank You's to her grave. During her 9.5 years on this planet she got glare's, dirty looks and people crossing the street in fear of the EVIL Doberman!!!! Yet the kids at the shriners hospital lit up when they seen this large Doberman come and visit them and let them tug and pull on her ears all they wanted and her little nub tail went nuts and she kisses everyone and everything she could. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/th_100_0174.jpg **Blame the DEED NOT the BREED** Her Dad was called into help many times and even flew into Oklahoma City after the bombing in hopes to find survivors. And we NEVER had an end to "sorry but i (or fill in the blank____) got bit by a Doberman and i see NO point in anyone owning one unless it's a guard dog". Her sister Jada went on to become a seeing eye dog. (i think what scares most is not only are they the 5th smartest breed but MOST are smarter than most humans i've met) 
Do these same folks who think Pit's and other "aggressive Dogs" should be banned also believe all guns that can that can shoot be banned also?? |
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I have noticed lately in GD there is a lot of hate towards "Pit Bulls". I own an American Staffordshire which basically the same thing. He is a resuced dog (ASPCA) and was AKC until the vet got a hold of him (snip, snip....... ) . I have owned many types of breeds (Labs, GSD, Greyhounds, and Hounds) which were all great dogs, but I love me some pits. Like most things in GD, it's largely ignorance. Whoever it was that posted something about 'maybe 25% of GD knows what they're talking about' was being incredibly generous. Even in this thread, there's some good information and some bullshit. Pits, AmStaffs, etc., do require a more experienced dog owner, however, it isn't magic. Ask anyone that owns one (that isn't a ghetto goblin) and they will tell you that they are the most loyal and loving companion animal you will ever own. That's why decent people that own a pit invariably get another one. I've owned all kinds of dogs in my life. I currently have a 6 year old rescue pit and a 12 year old GSD (along with a Bengal cat that thinks she's a mountain lion). I love my GSD and he has been a faithful and loyal companion since he was a puppy, but when he's gone I'll be getting another pit. That nonsense about not having more than one is just that, nonsense. The underlying message is valid however. They are a special breed that requires vigilance and a strong pack leader. Regardless of their temperament, any dog can have it's trigger tripped. If your Pit or AmStaff gets it's trigger tripped, it's going to cause more damage than a Lhasa Apso will. Proceed accordingly. |
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Quoted:
Evil dogs with no point but to kill humans and other dogs. yea, this shows your total lack of understanding. Even if they are what you say, then it is because WE made them that way. There is no more good or evil in their actions that there is in the actions of a fire. If there is any evil, it is on the shoulders of the creators, breeders, and owners. As far as 'no point but to kill humans and other dogs' It is true they were originally created to kill other dogs, but never humans! The purpose of killing other dogs was to have combats were people could bet. A winning dog would have no value to the owner if he couldn't sell the dog to another person and have that new person safely handle the dog. From that central start we have two branches. Right now people are doing a LOT more with 'pit bulls' than dog fighting. People are hog hunting with them because the stamina and power bred to fight other dogs translates directly into this kind of hunting. ALSO they are often therapy dogs because the same breeding that made them docile and loving toward whatever new owner bought them to fight them translates directly to being docile and loving to many other people. Pits of various types excel in agility, fly-ball, frisbee catching, dock-jumping, heck, even herding! A lot of this has to do with them being physically very able (which comes from their fighting roots) and being mentally extremely interested in pleasing their owner (which comes from the fighting roots desire to not quit) Now, what some people who are afraid of them AND some people who own them seem to fail to be able to comprehend is that a dog's mind isn't like our mind. They can be created with very species specific interest. For pointers it is birds. For border collies it is sheep. For pits it is other dogs. This leads to two kinds of misconceptions #1 is just because your pit bull gets along great with your pet cat, pet rabbit, pet horse, pet duck or even your kids doesn't mean it is a 'kind and gentle soul'. It just means it isn't aggressive towards those species. #2 for all the drug dealers & ghetto thugs out there who have pits for personal protection...just because the dog is extremely aggressive and willing to attack like a beserker another dog, that the same behavior will translate to attacking a human. The problem with #1 is that owners of pits who aren't educated and honest with themselves can have accidents when they forget there dog has deeply wired in his mind aggressive tenancies toward other dogs. A pit around another dog should be like a gun owner handling a gun...you are ALWAYS careful no matter how long of a 'safe' record you have. But people have a dog that is nice with there pet cat and kid and never caused and problems so they get sloppy and BAM the pitbull just killed the nieghbor's beagle even though they dogs seemed friendly before. The problem with #2 is the ghetto thugs can and do modify the dog's behavior. For starters they can breed dogs that show increased human aggression together, but honestly the original breed pool doesn't have much foundation material. That's okay, just cross in some other dogs of any breed that is very human aggressive. SECOND, aside from aggressiveness one of the big reasons dogs attack (and probably the reason MOST dogs attack) is due to fear. When a dog is fearful it will bark and growl and snap to make the threat leave it alone. If this doesn't work the dog feels compelled to attack what is scaring it. So these ghetto thugs see the behaivor and like it even though they don't understand what it is. They have in many cases totally successfully and totally unintentionally bred dogs that scare easily because these are the dogs that bite and snap and act all tough toward strangers...yet seem totally fine the rest of the time. (again, just like aggression, fear is not generalized in dogs it is usually aimed at very specific things, even odd contradictory things, like white sheets on the cloths line are scary but all other colors are fine) These problems compound themselves when pet owners don't know or understand the lineage of their specific dog. I am a big fan of rescue organizations, but honestly when you get that pit mix, you have no idea if the pit was a standard pit of sound mind and body or a scaredy-cat type. And again, you can't really know until some stranger approaching the dog freaks it out. And usually with a scaredy-cat type it isn't just ANY stranger but a very specific series of things often including gender, size, style of movement, scent (be it a specific cologne or just someone who ate some onions a few hours ago) I guess I am rambling again. However I'd like to say to BOTH extremes: Those who say pitbulls are evil and those who say pitbulls are angels...you are BOTH wrong. |
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As a owner and a (used to ) breeder of APBTs..
I am now afraid to even get my dog registered as such a breed.. because of what has become of them ..Its a shame. Unless you are VERY familiar and understand the breed and can train, SOCIALIZE , confine them securely, .. do not get one. |
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Quoted: People FEAR what they don't know or understand. Out for our nightly late night walk fer winters ago a city cop drove by and decided to check us out because it was very late at night. His partner drew his gun and kept it pointed at my dog the entire time they ran me for warrents then found out i didn't tell them i had CCW and wanted animal control to come out to rope my dog (my daughter) while they ran me because i didn't tell them i had a ccw and packing. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/l_b11d084e3f7ef7fe3122ecb65c17f85e.jpg 7 or 8 years old. The only one she ever bit was me and that's because my dumb-ass was watching TV while playing ball and we both went for her ball at the same time. On the other hand the number of lost hunters and hikers lost in the Mt Hood National forest and Tillamook National forest is 18. 18 lost hunters/hikers/campers/broken down trail riders because my Dobie loved LOVED!! getting a call in the middle of the night and their was someone or group lost in need of help and even in the snow where our lives were on the line. day or night rain or shine... She NEVER cared!! And even though she passed may 2011, 16 of them and their families sent flowers and Thank You's to her grave. During her 9.5 years on this planet she got glare's, dirty looks and people crossing the street in fear of the EVIL Doberman!!!! Yet the kids at the shriners hospital lit up when they seen this large Doberman come and visit them and let them tug and pull on her ears all they wanted and her little nub tail went nuts and she kisses everyone and everything she could. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/th_100_0174.jpg **Blame the DEED NOT the BREED** Her Dad was called into help many times and even flew into Oklahoma City after the bombing in hopes to find survivors. And we NEVER had an end to "sorry but i (or fill in the blank____) got bit by a Doberman and i see NO point in anyone owning one unless it's a guard dog". Her sister Jada went on to become a seeing eye dog. (i think what scares most is not only are they the 5th smartest breed but MOST are smarter than most humans i've met) Do these same folks who think Pit's and other "aggressive Dogs" should be banned also believe all guns that can that can shoot be banned also?? She was quite a dog. You did some very fine work together.  |
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Quoted: Oh I agree, and it was the owners fault both times it happened. (2 different locations and dogs) I like GSDs and always liked it when they brought the MWDs in to work with us. Quoted: Quoted: My Dad was attacked by a pitbull last week and had to go to the hospital. they are dogs of peace I tell you. I've been attacked twice by GSDs. Is GD going to get all up in arms over them? i have been bit more times than i can count by laso apsos(or however you spell it), and you don't see me spewing ignorance and hate about them. also, DRIVESHEAVE, your cat looks more threatening than your dog. |