[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Air Line Pilot (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:27:17 PM EDT
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Hello everyone I am new to the Aviation forums. I have been considering a career as a pilot. With all of the research that I have done I have come up with a lot of mixed ideas about being a professional pilot. Since I am already part of the AR15.com community I thought I would try here.
I am 33 years old and work in the construction industry. I work as a Boilermaker, mostly at power plants. The pay and benefits are good. The work is some what dangerous and extermly unhealthy. My doctor tells me I need to something more healthy or I will pay for it when I get older. The more I look the harder it is to find another line of work that pays well and has any kind of benefits. So I have been looking into being a pilot. Some of the info I find tells me it is a good paying job other tells me not so good. Any pilots that can tell me any good sources of info about getting into this career. Any advice. I only have two years of college. But I do have the money to go to school. Any help will be appreciated. |
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I'm not a pilot, but like you, I had this desire late in life as well. All I can say is, the majority of people will tell you not to even waste your time or money. It's unrealistic to expect to earn a living as a pilot nowadays. Way too many people want to fly for a living and the industry is a mess. You will spend a fortune earning all your required certificates for IFR, ATP, and so on, but you will be lucky to land a job that pays 20 to 30 thousand a year. Look into how much the regionals pay - it's awful and a lot of those poor people have non-aviation jobs on the side. I personally think it's an unrealistic goal, and know for a fact real airline pilots who fly commercial jets for top carriers will tell you the same.
As they say, fly because you want to and love it, but don't expect to make any money doing it. |
| Thanks for your reply. I have found alot of info that says what you have just told me. I was hoping that I was missing something. It seems that the airline industry is part of the race for the bottom much like the rest of this country. That might explain why it is so hard to find a good job/career. |
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I'm not a pilot, but like you, I had this desire late in life as well. All I can say is, the majority of people will tell you not to even waste your time or money. It's unrealistic to expect to earn a living as a pilot nowadays. Way too many people want to fly for a living and the industry is a mess. You will spend a fortune earning all your required certificates for IFR, ATP, and so on, but you will be lucky to land a job that pays 20 to 30 thousand a year. Look into how much the regionals pay - it's awful and a lot of those poor people have non-aviation jobs on the side. I personally think it's an unrealistic goal, and know for a fact real airline pilots who fly commercial jets for top carriers will tell you the same. As they say, fly because you want to and love it, but don't expect to make any money doing it. This. I am not a pilot (ATC is my aviation career field), but, I have pilot friends. The "Golden Age" of being a commercial pilot has passed (it may return, sometime down the road, maybe) and there are a ton of pilots out there with lots of hours and qulifications making little money doing it. Too bad you are over 30, you could have applied for an ATC job. |
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Thanks for your reply. I have found alot of info that says what you have just told me. I was hoping that I was missing something. It seems that the airline industry is part of the race for the bottom much like the rest of this country. That might explain why it is so hard to find a good job/career. You know it all depends on timing, luck, and even networking. The industry has highs and lows. Pilots are furloughed, carriers go out of business, and lots of factors happen that reduce job security in aviation. Some pilots are perfectly safe in their position, as with say a Southwest pilot, but you'll end up flying in a regional for a minimum wage and fighting hard to get an advance to a major where the big money is. I've known a couple who started the career in their early 20's, but they only ended up flying business jets for about 40,000 a year. One guy was over 50 before he was able to get a job making 80,000 a year. Of course he'll have to retire at 65. He told me at 34 years of age that I would only waste my money and time and probably be sorry. Plus the issue of medical is always a big one. Any medical problem can preclude you from flying and the older you get the more at risk you are for these tyes of things. So you spend several thousand dollars on training and half-way through something happens that prevents you from being able to even finish your goal, let alone ever fly again. Plus your starting age is a poor factor. Most pursue it in their early 20's or younger even. So many people will have more hours based on years of flying over you simply because they started ten years sooner. A potential employer is gonna take a younger candidate with more hours, even if you meet requirements. On the flip side, all things a relative, and if you have the money and really want to fly, then go for it. Get your PPL and explore your options to see how it goes. You very well might get lucky and find yourself in a postion to take a job that you are happy with down the road. I'm just a realist and don't think the chances are real good. Even then, the business can be a sucky one, like all careers, and pilots move on to other things despite all the effort to get there. Heck, even doctors and other difficult to attain positions can really suck now. I've seen doctors leave medicine because of how awful it was for them to deal with. As they say, the grass is always greener.... |
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots .
You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living  I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . |
| Don't do it, the barriers to entry are high compared to the rewards of the career(used to be money and time off, not anymore). Flight training will cost at least 60k, followed by flight instructing for at least 2 years, making less then 30gs, and then if you are lucky a job at a regional FO making 23,000 a year, the first year. This coming from a regional FO who as been on furlough for a year and two months, whom has been a professional pilot since '05. Yes I don't have a rosy view of the industry..... |
| Only industry I know of where you will have to pay between 60-75 thousand dollars to start, so that you can work 14 hour days for 18 grand a year. Aviation has pretty much sucked donkey balls as a career, I've been in it ten years and I am currently a jet captain. It wasn't so bad in the past but now its just a miserable way to make a living. Had i invested my money in anything other than flight training the payoff would have probably been better than the amount of money I have made over the last ten years. |
| Flying is a fun job just dont kid yourself thinking that you will be making huge bucks. Like Chad said prepare to earn slave wages and work 12-14 hour days. Right now there are thousands and thousands of pilots without jobs. Even with the glut that is forecasted I dont see many jobs for years to come. |
If flying is not a passion don't get into it for the money - there isn't any. You might get lucky but your better off buying lottery tickets. That said I'm one off the lucky ones, flying is a passion and I have a good job and make good $$. Of course staying up all night and soaking up radiation is bad for me but after 35+ years it's too late now.
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I'm not a pilot, but like you, I had this desire late in life as well. All I can say is, the majority of people will tell you not to even waste your time or money. It's unrealistic to expect to earn a living as a pilot nowadays. Way too many people want to fly for a living and the industry is a mess. You will spend a fortune earning all your required certificates for IFR, ATP, and so on, but you will be lucky to land a job that pays 20 to 30 thousand a year. Look into how much the regionals pay - it's awful and a lot of those poor people have non-aviation jobs on the side. I personally think it's an unrealistic goal, and know for a fact real airline pilots who fly commercial jets for top carriers will tell you the same. As they say, fly because you want to and love it, but don't expect to make any money doing it. What he said. First, from what I've heard, you need 2,000-4,000 hours in a large jet to even be considered for a commercial passenger pilot. Folks I know join the military to get the flight time, then go on to private pilot. Also, those I know who ARE pilots don't make the kind of money that would make all of that worth it to most folks.... |
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It's a pretty tall hill to climb, so you need to get started now. Even with money for the training, you'll need calendar time to build time and experience.
You might find out you like flight instruction; pay isn't big unless you get into a niche, but it's steady. You might be able to grab a job flying night freight on a dirt bag Part 135 operator flying okay equipment and getting all sorts of experience with the weather up close. We had a man at church that took a missionary flying job after he was barely qualified (he was also an A&P) where he flew 2000 hours in two years, but it was mostly single engine time. Personally, I think corporate flying would be more interesting. The comment above about earning $18k per year salaries was no joke. That might be high in some cases. Here's what happened to me; in the late 80's I sold my airplane and started getting serious about heading for a full time flying job as I had a belly full of my job. It's a good thing I didn't quite take the last step as my health betrayed me and I can't pass the exam for a First Class medical certificate now. I can probably still get a Second Class certificate at considerable expense and lots of hassle. I'm not only not flying for a living, my old plan to flight instruct after I retire is probably not going to happen, either. So, it's a chance you have to take if you want to pursue the dream of flying. If you have the passion for flying, where you fly to live, I can't imagine a better way to earn a living. You might also consider going back to school for an engineering degree. There are lots of options for working in the shop or out in the field, in an office, or a mix. |
| Ya going back to school is in the future for me. Thanks for the input. Pilot just sounds like such a good job. And of course the flight schools tell you it is a cake walk. May be some day I will be able to fly for fun, planes are getting cheaper. Everything is much more fun when you do not have to do it for a living. |
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Kit Darby, is that you? |
| I wouldn't get into anything in transportation. Lots of variables,costs of airplanes,maint,fuel,runway fees,and on the downside,pax always looking for a cheaper deal,Soooo the only costs that can really be lowered is labor. As in your paycheck. Whether trucks/trains/boats or planes,they all suck. |
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Kit Darby, is that you? That's what I was thinking 
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Kit Darby, is that you? 
Good 'ole Kit "The almost-imminent-impending-pilot-short! ACT NOW!" Darby. That man should be gang kicked in the groin. Sharing a 737 with Kit for four days would have been a quiet trip. |
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Kit Darby, is that you?
I've stopped telling people not to be an airline pilot....I tell them "GO FOR IT!" and recommend either Mesa, Great Lakes, or Trans States as great career options. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Kit Darby, is that you?
I've stopped telling people not to be an airline pilot....I tell them "GO FOR IT!" and recommend either Mesa, Great Lakes, or Trans States as great career options. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Kit Darby, is that you?
I've stopped telling people not to be an airline pilot....I tell them "GO FOR IT!" and recommend either Mesa, Great Lakes, or Trans States as great career options. |
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Quoted:
Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Who do you work for? That's some mighty strong koolaid you're servin up. Nevermind, this has to be a joke. 
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . Who do you work for? That's some mighty strong koolaid you're servin up. Nevermind, this has to be a joke.
I agree with ARfoxone. Now is the time if you can afford it. 2012 is the start. It will be banner years for a little while after that. |
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Now would be the time to start your training . There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . You would be wise to persue this as a career choice . It's a good living I Love each and every day on the flight deck .
It's a long road but worth the travel . I see others already asked..... |
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Coming from riddle rats ? Shake the dirt out of your vag .. I know your supposed to be a 777 Capt after you graduate with your textbook flying skills and 500 hours of stick time however , The real world of flying requires people that dont piss and whine when, " I got extended and I had plans to go wash my beemer .... and then I was gonna go play golf but now scheduling is sending me to BFE and the weather sucks and the airplane has a deferred auto pilot and there's ground delays everywhere or Damn I have to fly on my kids birthday or Christmas or my day off or the weekend . I had plans."
SO if you're a pansy assed little fuck wad that can't handle when things HAVE to be done because that's the MISSION . Then NO DO NOT become a pilot ! It's not for PUSSIES .. It's not like hollywood you actually have to work to get paid . Things are tight everywhere right now, in case you were not aware the economy is FUCKED. The airlines are doing what has to be done to survive right now and longer days and lower pay are the norm in all industries as far as I know. I seem to remember about 300,000 people a month getting laid off for the last 10 months or so. The days of good pay are lost in all job areas not just aviation. Prove me wrong ! Where should the OP spend his money for better pay and work rules? I don't drink anyones Kool aid I know the facts . The jobs will come back along with the pay and schedules after obongo is gone . There will not be enough pilots for the Airlines and they will sweeten the pot for the pilot group in order to get the airplanes flying . This is FACT . Bottom line I love the job , get paid well , get plenty of time to enjoy my life , and accept the sacrifice and responsibility of the job. I Fucking hate the Whining little bitch ass pussy boy assholes that think they're gonna get paid six figures to dress up fly 2 days a month , hit all the little hottie FA's on the overnight and have someone kiss their ass because they;re a fucking pilot . Then when they get online have the balls to bitch because it's not the way it works in the real world and you actually have to WORK. You know who you are ! FUCK YOU ! Rant over Sorry OP |
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Coming from riddle rats ? Shake the dirt out of your vag .. I know your supposed to be a 777 Capt after you graduate with your textbook flying skills and 500 hours of stick time however , The real world of flying requires people that dont piss and whine when, " I got extended and I had plans to go wash my beemer .... and then I was gonna go play golf but now scheduling is sending me to BFE and the weather sucks and the airplane has a deferred auto pilot and there's ground delays everywhere or Damn I have to fly on my kids birthday or Christmas or my day off or the weekend . I had plans." SO if you're a pansy assed little fuck wad that can't handle when things HAVE to be done because that's the MISSION . Then NO DO NOT become a pilot ! It's not for PUSSIES .. It's not like hollywood you actually have to work to get paid . Things are tight everywhere right now, in case you were not aware the economy is FUCKED. The airlines are doing what has to be done to survive right now and longer days and lower pay are the norm in all industries as far as I know. I seem to remember about 300,000 people a month getting laid off for the last 10 months or so. The days of good pay are lost in all job areas not just aviation. Prove me wrong ! Where should the OP spend his money for better pay and work rules? I don't drink anyones Kool aid I know the facts . The jobs will come back along with the pay and schedules after obongo is gone . There will not be enough pilots for the Airlines and they will sweeten the pot for the pilot group in order to get the airplanes flying . This is FACT . Bottom line I love the job , get paid well , get plenty of time to enjoy my life , and accept the sacrifice and responsibility of the job. I Fucking hate the Whining little bitch ass pussy boy assholes that think they're gonna get paid six figures to dress up fly 2 days a month , hit all the little hottie FA's on the overnight and have someone kiss their ass because they;re a fucking pilot . Then when they get online have the balls to bitch because it's not the way it works in the real world and you actually have to WORK. You know who you are ! FUCK YOU ! Rant over Sorry OP wow, i bet people just love to fly with you....... |
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Coming from riddle rats ? Shake the dirt out of your vag .. I know your supposed to be a 777 Capt after you graduate with your textbook flying skills and 500 hours of stick time however , The real world of flying requires people that dont piss and whine when, " I got extended and I had plans to go wash my beemer .... and then I was gonna go play golf but now scheduling is sending me to BFE and the weather sucks and the airplane has a deferred auto pilot and there's ground delays everywhere or Damn I have to fly on my kids birthday or Christmas or my day off or the weekend . I had plans." SO if you're a pansy assed little fuck wad that can't handle when things HAVE to be done because that's the MISSION . Then NO DO NOT become a pilot ! It's not for PUSSIES .. It's not like hollywood you actually have to work to get paid . Things are tight everywhere right now, in case you were not aware the economy is FUCKED. The airlines are doing what has to be done to survive right now and longer days and lower pay are the norm in all industries as far as I know. I seem to remember about 300,000 people a month getting laid off for the last 10 months or so. The days of good pay are lost in all job areas not just aviation. Prove me wrong ! Where should the OP spend his money for better pay and work rules? I don't drink anyones Kool aid I know the facts . The jobs will come back along with the pay and schedules after obongo is gone . There will not be enough pilots for the Airlines and they will sweeten the pot for the pilot group in order to get the airplanes flying . This is FACT . Bottom line I love the job , get paid well , get plenty of time to enjoy my life , and accept the sacrifice and responsibility of the job. I Fucking hate the Whining little bitch ass pussy boy assholes that think they're gonna get paid six figures to dress up fly 2 days a month , hit all the little hottie FA's on the overnight and have someone kiss their ass because they;re a fucking pilot . Then when they get online have the balls to bitch because it's not the way it works in the real world and you actually have to WORK. You know who you are ! FUCK YOU ! Rant over Sorry OP Wow, you need counseling and grammar lessons. Once again, who do you work for? |
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I'll throw my $.02 in the hat.
I grew up in a flying family, mom, dad, grandpa are all pilots. I spent every weekend of my youth at the airport with my dad, while he worked on one of his airplanes. I was raised by WWII and Korean war era pilots that hung out at the FBO. I worked as a line boy, CFI, charter and freight pilot, from the time I was in High school. All I ever wanted to do for my whole life, was to fly airplanes. I'm currently a jet Captain for a large regional airline. I have just shy of 17,000 total flight hours, and 5 type ratings. I average 16-18 days off per month, and I make over $100K a year. I'm in my mid 40's, and I HATE my job. I loathe going to work, and play the system to avoid going in, if at all possible. I do everything possible to talk my son out of wanting to fly for a living. Aviation as a good career is dead. The TSA/FAA, management has sucked all the life and fun out of this job. Not to mention, the days of high pay, and lot's of days off are long gone. My dad used to tell me, that when you fly for a living, it becomes only a job. I didn't listen to him, but I should have. If I could start over, I'd find a job that allowed me to buy my own airplane, and fly for fun. When I wanted to. It was never about the money for me, but all the reasons I wanted to do this are dead and buried, never to return. Run, don't walk, and find another career choice. |
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I'm not a pilot, nor can I offer the same advice as those who are. But what I can tell you is that a friend of mine from my old Air Force days spent thousands and thousands of dollars over the last 12 years to become a right-seater on 757's for an airline in the Mideast. He struggled and struggled to make ends meet over the years and would love to come home to fly, but can't find a job.
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Coming from riddle rats ? Shake the dirt out of your vag .. I know your supposed to be a 777 Capt after you graduate with your textbook flying skills and 500 hours of stick time however , The real world of flying requires people that dont piss and whine when, " I got extended and I had plans to go wash my beemer .... and then I was gonna go play golf but now scheduling is sending me to BFE and the weather sucks and the airplane has a deferred auto pilot and there's ground delays everywhere or Damn I have to fly on my kids birthday or Christmas or my day off or the weekend . I had plans." SO if you're a pansy assed little fuck wad that can't handle when things HAVE to be done because that's the MISSION . Then NO DO NOT become a pilot ! It's not for PUSSIES .. It's not like hollywood you actually have to work to get paid . Things are tight everywhere right now, in case you were not aware the economy is FUCKED. The airlines are doing what has to be done to survive right now and longer days and lower pay are the norm in all industries as far as I know. I seem to remember about 300,000 people a month getting laid off for the last 10 months or so. The days of good pay are lost in all job areas not just aviation. Prove me wrong ! Where should the OP spend his money for better pay and work rules? I don't drink anyones Kool aid I know the facts . The jobs will come back along with the pay and schedules after obongo is gone . There will not be enough pilots for the Airlines and they will sweeten the pot for the pilot group in order to get the airplanes flying . This is FACT . Bottom line I love the job , get paid well , get plenty of time to enjoy my life , and accept the sacrifice and responsibility of the job. I Fucking hate the Whining little bitch ass pussy boy assholes that think they're gonna get paid six figures to dress up fly 2 days a month , hit all the little hottie FA's on the overnight and have someone kiss their ass because they;re a fucking pilot . Then when they get online have the balls to bitch because it's not the way it works in the real world and you actually have to WORK. You know who you are ! FUCK YOU ! Rant over Sorry OP your rant sucks.1/10 for being factually inaccurate. The low pay/ high work load was well in place long before this economy fell apart. It is more attributable to the 300 hour wonderbread jet pilots who will work for poverty wages and the companies that hire them. (think fast track schools) Hopefully there will be a pilot shortage but I'm not seeing it any time soon. DR nimslow, my job wouldn't be so bad if I made 100k, problem is I made more money repairing forklifts than I do as an international jet captain. Working 14 hour days with 9.9 hours of flying (many times more than that, duty/flight times are mere recommendations right?  ) Oh did I mention being on call 24/7......
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My Dad flew for Delta for 33 years. Made alot of $$$,but as is always the case,the more $$$ one makes the more one spends. And pilots are REAL good at spending $$$.
I'll throw my $.02 in the hat. I grew up in a flying family, mom, dad, grandpa are all pilots. I spent every weekend of my youth at the airport with my dad, while he worked on one of his airplanes. I was raised by WWII and Korean war era pilots that hung out at the FBO. I worked as a line boy, CFI, charter and freight pilot, from the time I was in High school. All I ever wanted to do for my whole life, was to fly airplanes. I'm currently a jet Captain for a large regional airline. I have just shy of 17,000 total flight hours, and 5 type ratings. I average 16-18 days off per month, and I make over $100K a year. I'm in my mid 40's, and I HATE my job. I loathe going to work, and play the system to avoid going in, if at all possible. I do everything possible to talk my son out of wanting to fly for a living. Aviation as a good career is dead. The TSA/FAA, management has sucked all the life and fun out of this job. Not to mention, the days of high pay, and lot's of days off are long gone. My dad used to tell me, that when you fly for a living, it becomes only a job. I didn't listen to him, but I should have. If I could start over, I'd find a job that allowed me to buy my own airplane, and fly for fun. When I wanted to. It was never about the money for me, but all the reasons I wanted to do this are dead and buried, never to return. Run, don't walk, and find another career choice. He tried to make things interesting while flying. When Delta took over Western,he transfered to LAX,flying Mexican and Alaska routes. When that got old,he transfered to Delta's European routes(formerly Pan Am's). But in the end,his happiest day was when he retired. And he sure as hell didn't want to become like some of those guys who went back to the 3rd seat(post 60). I know eveyone wants to go back to the days of 707s and DC-8s,when flying was glamourous(and it was). Those days are OVER,long gone and most likely never to return,except in the pages of Airliners and Airways mags. The pax of today is FAR different than then, DAL/UAL/AA/SWA have replaced the "dog" as a means of long distance travel.....Greyhound. |
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Coming from riddle rats ? Shake the dirt out of your vag .. I know your supposed to be a 777 Capt after you graduate with your textbook flying skills and 500 hours of stick time however , The real world of flying requires people that dont piss and whine when, " I got extended and I had plans to go wash my beemer .... and then I was gonna go play golf but now scheduling is sending me to BFE and the weather sucks and the airplane has a deferred auto pilot and there's ground delays everywhere or Damn I have to fly on my kids birthday or Christmas or my day off or the weekend . I had plans." SO if you're a pansy assed little fuck wad that can't handle when things HAVE to be done because that's the MISSION . Then NO DO NOT become a pilot ! It's not for PUSSIES .. It's not like hollywood you actually have to work to get paid . Things are tight everywhere right now, in case you were not aware the economy is FUCKED. The airlines are doing what has to be done to survive right now and longer days and lower pay are the norm in all industries as far as I know. I seem to remember about 300,000 people a month getting laid off for the last 10 months or so. The days of good pay are lost in all job areas not just aviation. Prove me wrong ! Where should the OP spend his money for better pay and work rules? I don't drink anyones Kool aid I know the facts . The jobs will come back along with the pay and schedules after obongo is gone . There will not be enough pilots for the Airlines and they will sweeten the pot for the pilot group in order to get the airplanes flying . This is FACT . Bottom line I love the job , get paid well , get plenty of time to enjoy my life , and accept the sacrifice and responsibility of the job. I Fucking hate the Whining little bitch ass pussy boy assholes that think they're gonna get paid six figures to dress up fly 2 days a month , hit all the little hottie FA's on the overnight and have someone kiss their ass because they;re a fucking pilot . Then when they get online have the balls to bitch because it's not the way it works in the real world and you actually have to WORK. You know who you are ! FUCK YOU ! Rant over Sorry OP Wow. I don't even know where to start. Yes, there are a bunch of spoiled rich kids in the business. I have flown with hundreds. Honestly, you sound worse than any of them. I would hate to be on 4 day trip with you. It's pretty obvious that you don't know much about the industry. Been doing it long? To the OP, at this stage in your life, I would honestly advise against it. You have a good career. Thank God for it, and drive on. I'm going to give you the best advice regarding a flying career, so listen up: Go to the airport and take some lessons. After about the third flight, if it's not something you HAVE to do, then quit, and don't look back. If it gets into your blood, to the point where it is worth poverty, divorce, and the very real prospect of a fiery death, then go for it, and don't let anything, or anyone get in your way. I'm not being flippant or sarcastic. If fact, I could not be more serious. There are tons of professional pilots in this forum, so you are going to get a lot of good advice, however, keep in mind that you are only going to hear from the successful pilots. Successful, as in the top 10% who have the leisure to waste time on the Internet, and the disposable income to shop for $1000 toys. The 90% who went broke and quit with their marriage destroyed, or the ones who died, well, you aren't going to hear much from them. Also, there are lots of wanna be pilots who cannot help but throw their unfounded opinions around. You would do well to consider background of your would be gurus. The washout rate for prospective pro-pilots is higher than BUDS. Fledgling pilots are very similar to all the wanna be starlets who flock to Southern California with dreams of Fame and fortune. Except the pilots don't have Starbucks and the a lucrative porn industry to fall back on. Think about it. There are entire forums dedicated to people who fly Commercial Airline Flight Sims on the Internet, for free! And you are wondering if you can make a decent living at it. We have a flight sim junkie right here on Arfcom, who has probably logged more time than myself and the next ten pilots put together! ETA- Listen to Dr_Nimslow, he knows of what he speaks. |
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At your age I was already in my fifth year flying heavy's for a major airline. I get to fly heavy jets all over the world and at the end of the day I really love my job, but I would not recommend it for you. A flying career is all about seniority and you would probably be around 40 before even getting close to a decent job. That would require 7 years minimum of major B.S. just hoping to get a few hours. Then at that point, you are still on the bottom of the list and sucking major tit when it comes to days off and vacation bidding. There were guys in my new hire class that were 20 years older than me, and I have no idea how they made it through the first few years at the bottom of the seniority list making $hit money with a mortgage and kids.
Congress is also looking to raise the minimums for pilots which means more hard work and money out of your pocket. The regional airline jobs suck major ass (I know I was there) and you are quickly nearing the cutoff for a military guard flight slot. If you really want to have fun, get your license and just have fun renting planes when the opportunity presents itself. I enjoy being an airline pilot, but things are very different today for those just starting out versus the mid 1990's. There is zero upward movement these days. The only way guys are moving up is if some poor sap dies, has medical problems or decides to give up flying. The old farts that refuse to retire have clogged up the system worse than the major grumpy I just laid.
BillOfRights was right on. I look back and often think about how lucky and fortunate I was to have everything go right for me when it did. Of the hundreds of guys I went to aviation school with, less than 25 actuallly went on to get hired by major airlines and of those less than 10 have avioded being furloughed or fired. |
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Here is a word of advice:
If you want to fly on a budget. Buy a VANS RV-9A or one of the Vans that you like. It's homebuilt so you do all the MTX and misc stuff on it yourself. Then once its made all you gotta do is have a pilots license. Run down to a flight school, ask a CFI to teach you in your plane, get licensed, fly any time you want for just the cost of fuel and oil. Even better if you live on enough land / property and can make 400feet of it a runway. Bingo. You can now fly for less than 60K as much as you want. |
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Here is some free advice so it is worth what you paid for it.
I took my ATP at 23 was a Captain at a top tier regional airline at 25. I walked away from the industry at 28 after a stint at corporate flying. If it is something you need to do then do it. You will find plenty out about yourself in the process if you choose to pursue it. I can tell you from someone who has all the ratings and thousands of hours that you are identical to any one of a hundred of others applying for a job at the few and far between "good" jobs in aviation. You have many simultaneous lottery's you are playing in this career field: family problems, medical issues, potential FAA action, potential company action, death or disability, and the biggest lottery of them all - will you get a decent job. I was a union rep at the regional I worked at for over two years - don't ever discount the potential for something completely out of your hands or even a simple mistake blowing up into career ending company or FAA action. Saw it happen to plenty of good people many times. I kind of get the drift that you are frustrated at your job and are just looking for a change. I understand that as I left aviation needing a change not knowing if I would end up working the midnight shift a stop and rob for the rest of my life. Luckily everything worked out for me so far in my new career. So I say jump from your career if you really can't stand it anymore. If you have the money for school I would look elsewhere other than aviation as I think you may end back up in the same place your currently at in a few years without the pay and benefits or money left for schooling. |
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Quoted:
Here is some free advice so it is worth what you paid for it. I took my ATP at 23 was a Captain at a top tier regional airline at 25. I walked away from the industry at 28 after a stint at corporate flying. If it is something you need to do then do it. You will find plenty out about yourself in the process if you choose to pursue it. I can tell you from someone who has all the ratings and thousands of hours that you are identical to any one of a hundred of others applying for a job at the few and far between "good" jobs in aviation. You have many simultaneous lottery's you are playing in this career field: family problems, medical issues, potential FAA action, potential company action, death or disability, and the biggest lottery of them all - will you get a decent job. I was a union rep at the regional I worked at for over two years - don't ever discount the potential for something completely out of your hands or even a simple mistake blowing up into career ending company or FAA action. Saw it happen to plenty of good people many times. I kind of get the drift that you are frustrated at your job and are just looking for a change. I understand that as I left aviation needing a change not knowing if I would end up working the midnight shift a stop and rob for the rest of my life. Luckily everything worked out for me so far in my new career. So I say jump from your career if you really can't stand it anymore. If you have the money for school I would look elsewhere other than aviation as I think you may end back up in the same place your currently at in a few years without the pay and benefits or money left for schooling. This is good advice. I was a professional already working for Delta, and instructing on the side. I quit instructing a few years ago as I realized that the post-911 industry was not what I wanted as a career. In my honest opinion, if you do not have a true passion for this, it will be a very frustrating road for you. I realized as an instructor that I really did not have the passion, but that was after tens of thousands spent, not to mention the time invested. The "lottery" aspect also weighed heavily on me. I always told myself that I would do one of two things for a living. Fly airplanes, or work for myself. I have the latter in my sights now and am well satisfied with the choice. |
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Coming from riddle rats ? Shake the dirt out of your vag .. I know your supposed to be a 777 Capt after you graduate with your textbook flying skills and 500 hours of stick time however , The real world of flying requires people that dont piss and whine when, " I got extended and I had plans to go wash my beemer .... and then I was gonna go play golf but now scheduling is sending me to BFE and the weather sucks and the airplane has a deferred auto pilot and there's ground delays everywhere or Damn I have to fly on my kids birthday or Christmas or my day off or the weekend . I had plans." SO if you're a pansy assed little fuck wad that can't handle when things HAVE to be done because that's the MISSION . Then NO DO NOT become a pilot ! It's not for PUSSIES .. It's not like hollywood you actually have to work to get paid . Things are tight everywhere right now, in case you were not aware the economy is FUCKED. The airlines are doing what has to be done to survive right now and longer days and lower pay are the norm in all industries as far as I know. I seem to remember about 300,000 people a month getting laid off for the last 10 months or so. The days of good pay are lost in all job areas not just aviation. Prove me wrong ! Where should the OP spend his money for better pay and work rules? I don't drink anyones Kool aid I know the facts . The jobs will come back along with the pay and schedules after obongo is gone . There will not be enough pilots for the Airlines and they will sweeten the pot for the pilot group in order to get the airplanes flying . This is FACT . Bottom line I love the job , get paid well , get plenty of time to enjoy my life , and accept the sacrifice and responsibility of the job. I Fucking hate the Whining little bitch ass pussy boy assholes that think they're gonna get paid six figures to dress up fly 2 days a month , hit all the little hottie FA's on the overnight and have someone kiss their ass because they;re a fucking pilot . Then when they get online have the balls to bitch because it's not the way it works in the real world and you actually have to WORK. You know who you are ! FUCK YOU ! Rant over Sorry OP Who took the jamm out of your donut? Who are you calling a pussie? I know that it is not me. I am not a pansy assed little f*** that can't take the stress or the work load. I just finished up 10 weeks of seven twelves. That is twelve hour days seven days a week. The job involvled a lot of scafold climbing Pulling on chain falls and come alongs. Not to mention the clouds of fly ash. At the end of this week I will be traveling to the Dominica Republic to help rebuild three boilers. Twelve to fourteen hour days. I will be away from my family until Christmas. No Thanksgiving. I am not complaining this is the life I choose. And I make good money doing it. Alot more then most pilots. Beleive it or not I enjoy most of the jobs I work. You would not understand. I am looking for a healthier line of work with better conditions but is still challenging. Not so I can be some over paid pretty boy. So go to hell and stay out of my post. |
| Probaly not but it touched a nerve. Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I am just trying to stay out of office work. I am interested in a job that is challenging but with good conditions. I do not have my hart set on becoming a airline pilot. Obviously I know nothing about it. My father spent 25 years in the Air Force as a flight engineer. So being a pilot sounds very interesting to me. |
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Don't. Just don't. Beautifully succinct, heartfelt and accurate. To the OP- Arfcom has just saved you over $100,000 in cash, plus irreplaceable years of disappointment and uncertainty. (And that's a best case conservative estimate) Be sure to pay it forward sometime. Most of us started in this game out of the pure love of aviation, a fascination for the art and science of flying. Now, we are trapped in a broken industry and being forced to recalibrate our expectations. The advise you got probably sounded a little pessimistic, but you got the sugar coated version, believe it or not. Good luck with staying out of a boring office job, thats all that any of us are trying to do. |
| Somebody once told me if I want to be really successful avoid passions in your work. Because passions are a emotion much like love and they can cloud your thinking. Yes this post has saved me alot of hard ache and I did not have to go far. Many of use pay alot to stay out of a BORRING office job. In the long run it is probaly better then going mad. This day and age I am thinkful to have learned a trade, that does not keep me from looking for greener pastures. |
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Somebody once told me if I want to be really successful avoid passions in your work. Because passions are a emotion much like love and they can cloud your thinking. Yes this post has saved me alot of hard ache and I did not have to go far. Many of use pay alot to stay out of a BORRING office job. In the long run it is probaly better then going mad. This day and age I am thinkful to have learned a trade, that does not keep me from looking for greener pastures. I understand that you have health concerns moving forward with your current trade. I would humbly suggest (without knowing anymore about you than I do) you parlay that skill set into safety inspections, building inspections, etc. rather than absorb the 100k in actual money, plus the opportunity cost. |
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As a welder I have the opportunity to move into certified welding inspector. It's just like anything else you work a few bad jobs and it is easy to become frustraded. The hours are harsh and the conditions leave alot to be desired. On the plus side I get alot of time off and the pay is good anough to live well. If the economy ever turns around I can get a job at a nuc they are alwas more then happy to pay for there employees education.
As a outsider a job sitting in a heated/ac cockpit looks like a good job. It reminds me of when I finished welding school the entire class wanted to become underwater welders. After all they are the elite. Then you do research and find out how much schooling is going to cost and how much the pay is. Sure some of them make good money but most less then twenty dollors an hour. But anough people will take the job just because it appeals to them that the companys do not have to pay well. Now I scuba dive for sport not pay. |
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Here is a word of advice: If you want to fly on a budget. Buy a VANS RV-9A or one of the Vans that you like. It's homebuilt so you do all the MTX and misc stuff on it yourself. Then once its made all you gotta do is have a pilots license. Run down to a flight school, ask a CFI to teach you in your plane, get licensed, fly any time you want for just the cost of fuel and oil. Even better if you live on enough land / property and can make 400feet of it a runway. Bingo. You can now fly for less than 60K as much as you want. It was Popular Mechanics or Science that had an article about inexpensive airplanes. They are still expensive but becoming more in reach for the every day person. After you pay for the plane/kit wouldn't the biggest expence be insurance? I think it would be a safer hoby then riding a Harley. Many people spend more money on a car then the Vans kit prices. Good info thanks. |
| I have decided to give up dreams of getting paid to fly. I am just about ready to go for check-ride for my PPL and may start on instrument right after that is done. There are zero prospects in my area right now for a new CFI. I am also not sure if i want to turn something i enjoy so much into a job. As long as i can fly i am happy. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is a word of advice: If you want to fly on a budget. Buy a VANS RV-9A or one of the Vans that you like. It's homebuilt so you do all the MTX and misc stuff on it yourself. Then once its made all you gotta do is have a pilots license. Run down to a flight school, ask a CFI to teach you in your plane, get licensed, fly any time you want for just the cost of fuel and oil. Even better if you live on enough land / property and can make 400feet of it a runway. Bingo. You can now fly for less than 60K as much as you want. It was Popular Mechanics or Science that had an article about inexpensive airplanes. They are still expensive but becoming more in reach for the every day person. After you pay for the plane/kit wouldn't the biggest expence be insurance? I think it would be a safer hoby then riding a Harley. Many people spend more money on a car then the Vans kit prices. Good info thanks. The insurance cost is a pittance after you have some experience under your belt, and I'll bet it's about the same as motorcycle insurance even for a new pilot. The kit cost is just a buy in. You'll need several specialty tools, an engine and propellor, instruments, radios, wire, paint, and so on. A remanufactured engine will cost more than a pretty nice Harley and the cost of a prop will buy a used car. A new engine will cost more than a custom Harley with everything imaginable. Once the airframe is complete, 90% of the build is left to complete. This is another part of aviation where passion doesn't mesh up with reality. Don't build an airplane because you want a cheap airplane, build one because you want to build an airplane. The are thousands on incomplete projects all over the country and they generally change hands three or four times before they get completed - if they can be completed without starting from scratch. |
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There is a pilot shortage coming in the next few years and the airlines will be in need of MANY pilots . been hearing that ever since my entry into aviation back in 1973............................. eyes opened up in 1975 (2 years into pilot training) and went for maintenance |