Posted: 1/18/2012 5:19:37 AM EDT
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I’d like to get a complex endorsement and eventually get checked out in a Piper Arrow.
Since I haven’t flown in a while I’m going to need to get back in the groove. My choices are Cherokee 140 ($95/hr), Warrior ($105/hr), or Archer ($115/hr). Any one of those offer any advantages to transitioning to the Arrow?, or don’t matter just build up some hours in the cheapest aircraft. |
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How many hours do you have? in what airplanes? When was the last time you flew? The arrow is pretty much an archer with a few more levers, its still built like a small GA piston trainer, if you only need a few hours of work, do it in the arrow. Got only about 100 hours in 172's and 1 hour in a Warrior. Haven't flown in 5 years so I'm going to need a few instructor hours. The Arrow runs $140/hr, plus tack on another $40 for the instructor. On second thought, maybe I should just go for the Archer. Not sure the cool factor of getting to hear, "Wheeeeeeee...clunk..clunk" shortly after takeoff is worth the extra endorsement and $25/hr. |
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I'd say go with the cherokee for a few flights, get some air under your butt, get the feel for basic airwork, landings, emergency procedures and the flow of things again. Then start on your complex and cotinue to learn, improve and refresh while working on that.
Just my $.02 |
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I love Arrows. I have around 350 hours in one. All of them fly great except the Arrow IV. Is it worth it over a 140? Depends. Do you need complex time or just wanna play with another couple of levers? It would be just to have some extra levers to fitz with, that's all. Interestingly, this is an Arrow IV, I'd be interested why you didn't like the way it flew. The T-tail do some goofy stuff? |
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I love Arrows. I have around 350 hours in one. All of them fly great except the Arrow IV. Is it worth it over a 140? Depends. Do you need complex time or just wanna play with another couple of levers? It would be just to have some extra levers to fitz with, that's all. Interestingly, this is an Arrow IV, I'd be interested why you didn't like the way it flew. The T-tail do some goofy stuff? The T tail doesn't have alot of control authority at low speeds. I remember yanking the shit out of it to get it to flare or even rotate. But it was big and smooth compared to the little arrows. |
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I've got a bunch of time in Arrows of all types. One of my favorites was a T-tail that was ugly as sin.
They are great planes to fly but once you get past the foldy-gear they're just a warrior. Get your complex in it and enjoy it but don't break your bank because it's "complex". |
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Get the Archer. Be done with it.
The extra 20hp in the Arrow was never enough to overcome the extra weight of the folding gear. Depends on the airplane though. An arrow with the hershey bar wing was faster than the tapered wing III. I had a student with an old Comanche that was the fastest 180hp airplane I'd ever seen. A 160hp warrior with wheel pants will be faster than an Archer without them. Don't drop the dime on the Arrow just becuase it's an Arrow. You need to see what's best for you. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust?
T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. |
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I had about 300 hours in 152, 172, and 182 and was current when I did the Arrow for a complex a few years ago. I found it very easy to fly and did not need much time to be comfortable in it. After 5 hours, I was very comfortable flying it VFR.
If you are paying for an instructor no matter which plane and you really want to play with the gear lever, I would just go straight to the Arrow for 10 hours. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. Nah... just more aggressive use of trim. |
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Exactly. Anyone who cant land a 182 or any large engine single without riding power until touchdown, just has no clue how to trim. I have yet to fly any aircraft where power wasn't at idle once in ground effect.
Go ahead and try to fly our jet without trim. It will OWN you. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. Nah... just more aggressive use of trim. You're correct. It took me a few landings to figure that out. Compared to the 172 where you don't need to trim it much. S'ok. I did notice they seem to handle better with a friend or 2 in the back. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. Nah... just more aggressive use of trim. You're correct. It took me a few landings to figure that out. Compared to the 172 where you don't need to trim it much. S'ok. I did notice they seem to handle better with a friend or 2 in the back. Wait til you fly a 206, 207, or 210... you'll think the 182 is a kite. 
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. Nah... just more aggressive use of trim. You're correct. It took me a few landings to figure that out. Compared to the 172 where you don't need to trim it much. S'ok. I did notice they seem to handle better with a friend or 2 in the back. Wait til you fly a 206, 207, or 210... you'll think the 182 is a kite. Speaking of trim.. Is it normal for a 182RG to run out of down elevator trim at full power 150KIAS 3500ft msl.. Like it will climb 25ft/min. It's been bellied in once at least. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. Nah... just more aggressive use of trim. You're correct. It took me a few landings to figure that out. Compared to the 172 where you don't need to trim it much. S'ok. I did notice they seem to handle better with a friend or 2 in the back. Wait til you fly a 206, 207, or 210... you'll think the 182 is a kite. Speaking of trim.. Is it normal for a 182RG to run out of down elevator trim at full power 150KIAS 3500ft msl.. Like it will climb 25ft/min. It's been bellied in once at least. Sounds like it has an aft CG. All the 182RG's I have flown have had enough trim authority to put the aircraft in a 500 fpm descent. |
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Get the endorsement because it opens opportunities to fly other complex aircraft. If it's an Arrow IV, you can also get the the 'hi-performance" endorsement because it has "more than 200 HP" (205 HP, I believe). Get back in the saddle with the Arrow- you'll actually spend less money that way compared with flying a Warrior or Archer for X hours and then transitioning to the Arrow. You're gonna need at least 10 hours to meet insurance requirements, so why not spend that time in it doing a BFR and knocking off the rust? T-tails Arrows (Arrow IV) are NUMBERS airplanes; fly'em by the numbers and you'll have no troubles. Forget that caveat and ALL you'll have is troubles! FWIW, I have 112 hours in a gorgeous Arrow IV that was crashed by an idiot that forgot to fly it by the numbers when an engine oil line cracked and caused an engine seizure- also caused by the idiot not monitoring her instruments and seeing the rising temperatures (by her own admission, I might add). I did my BFR this past year getting my HP/Complex endorsement. I've spent most of my flight hours in the 182RG after doing so getting comfortable in it. Love that it can haul more ppl than the 172. Even a straight leg 182 is a truck. Heavy nosed truck.. Maybe I need more passengers and baggage in the back. Nah... just more aggressive use of trim. You're correct. It took me a few landings to figure that out. Compared to the 172 where you don't need to trim it much. S'ok. I did notice they seem to handle better with a friend or 2 in the back. Wait til you fly a 206, 207, or 210... you'll think the 182 is a kite. Speaking of trim.. Is it normal for a 182RG to run out of down elevator trim at full power 150KIAS 3500ft msl.. Like it will climb 25ft/min. It's been bellied in once at least. Ah...no. Something's bent. I probably have 600 hours in an RG. Never had a trim problem. |