Posted: 10/12/2011 10:43:20 AM EDT
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My buddy and his partners are trying to sell (might be already sold) their Bonanza t33 I think it is.
It has full avionics, auto pilot etc....It is due for an overhaul, but other than that it is immaculate. Anyway he just told me that a "broker" offered them $62k for it. I know the market is down, but isn't that extremely low? I'm not a pilot, but I have flown with him almost every flight he has taken in it. I never thought flying would be so much fun. Anyway just thought I would see what you fellas thought about the offer from the broker, I was seriously thinking of partnering with my buddy and just buy it from the other partners. I would of course start my flight training soon after! I can get more details tonight. |
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Not nearly enough information. "Full Avionics" means nothing. Specs? What do you mean by "Overhaul" How are the books? Corrosion? Damage history? AD's SB's? Inspections? What you need to do is hire a guy who knows that specific type of aircraft, to do a "Pre Purchase Inspection" You aren't buying an AR. Every detail is important, Nothing is cheap or easy. Check WWW.tradeaplane.com, or just google the plane type + For sale if you want to find some comps. Be for warned, use a disposable e-mail for contacting the brokers, and don't give them your phone number. |
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Could be a F-33. Looks like the G-33 was the last version of the Debonair.
There's no way to assess the value from the information you gave. I haven't been keeping up, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the engine work gO at least $30k and more, depending on exactly what is done. That airplane is not a good choice for a primary student. It would be interesting to find out whether anyone would sell an insurance policy for that use. Anything is possible I suppose, but the price would be breath taking. If it's single control airplane, then it's a no go as a trainer. If the airplane has a pressure carburetor, I would just pass. On the other hand, something like K model is fuel injected and just a great airplane, but not for beginners. Man, I miss flying a Bonanza. Even with the quirks, there's just something about them. Maybe because they're right, built with enough room, useful load, and range. |
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Could be a F-33. Looks like the G-33 was the last version of the Debonair. There's no way to assess the value from the information you gave. I haven't been keeping up, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the engine work gO at least $30k and more, depending on exactly what is done. That airplane is not a good choice for a primary student. It would be interesting to find out whether anyone would sell an insurance policy for that use. Anything is possible I suppose, but the price would be breath taking. If it's single control airplane, then it's a no go as a trainer. If the airplane has a pressure carburetor, I would just pass. On the other hand, something like K model is fuel injected and just a great airplane, but not for beginners. Man, I miss flying a Bonanza. Even with the quirks, there's just something about them. Maybe because they're right, built with enough room, useful load, and range. While I agree in general with what you said, there are some specifics that need to be corrected. As to the Bonanza being used as a primary trainer, it happens all the time. The flight school (an ab initio program) used the A36 from day one. Insurance was probably high...and at the time, $85.00 per hour was pricey...but it is done. The single control Bonanzas with the "throw over" yoke can be used for instructional purposes if the instructor is signed off by the feds to do so. If I had it in me to own a single engine airplane, I'd want an A36. Just about the perfect airplane...or a P51...but then again, my wife told me "Boat or Airplane". With a dock in my back yard the choice wasn't hard. ka |
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Could be a F-33. Looks like the G-33 was the last version of the Debonair. There's no way to assess the value from the information you gave. I haven't been keeping up, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the engine work gO at least $30k and more, depending on exactly what is done. That airplane is not a good choice for a primary student. It would be interesting to find out whether anyone would sell an insurance policy for that use. Anything is possible I suppose, but the price would be breath taking. If it's single control airplane, then it's a no go as a trainer. If the airplane has a pressure carburetor, I would just pass. On the other hand, something like K model is fuel injected and just a great airplane, but not for beginners. Man, I miss flying a Bonanza. Even with the quirks, there's just something about them. Maybe because they're right, built with enough room, useful load, and range. While I agree in general with what you said, there are some specifics that need to be corrected. As to the Bonanza being used as a primary trainer, it happens all the time. The flight school (an ab initio program) used the A36 from day one. Insurance was probably high...and at the time, $85.00 per hour was pricey...but it is done. The single control Bonanzas with the "throw over" yoke can be used for instructional purposes if the instructor is signed off by the feds to do so. If I had it in me to own a single engine airplane, I'd want an A36. Just about the perfect airplane...or a P51...but then again, my wife told me "Boat or Airplane". With a dock in my back yard the choice wasn't hard. ka You got a seaplane, right?!? |
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Could be a F-33. Looks like the G-33 was the last version of the Debonair. There's no way to assess the value from the information you gave. I haven't been keeping up, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the engine work gO at least $30k and more, depending on exactly what is done. That airplane is not a good choice for a primary student. It would be interesting to find out whether anyone would sell an insurance policy for that use. Anything is possible I suppose, but the price would be breath taking. If it's single control airplane, then it's a no go as a trainer. If the airplane has a pressure carburetor, I would just pass. On the other hand, something like K model is fuel injected and just a great airplane, but not for beginners. Man, I miss flying a Bonanza. Even with the quirks, there's just something about them. Maybe because they're right, built with enough room, useful load, and range. While I agree in general with what you said, there are some specifics that need to be corrected. As to the Bonanza being used as a primary trainer, it happens all the time. The flight school (an ab initio program) used the A36 from day one. Insurance was probably high...and at the time, $85.00 per hour was pricey...but it is done. The single control Bonanzas with the "throw over" yoke can be used for instructional purposes if the instructor is signed off by the feds to do so. If I had it in me to own a single engine airplane, I'd want an A36. Just about the perfect airplane...or a P51...but then again, my wife told me "Boat or Airplane". With a dock in my back yard the choice wasn't hard. ka I know about the ab initio programs. How many pilots for US carriers were trained with this method, in this country? (In other words, pilots that were not initially trained for foreign airlines that transferred to US carriers.) An A36 is not v-tail model. Sign off or not, primary instruction in a throw over yoke airplane is not smart. I found myself in such an airplane one day with a pilot that was supposedly somewhat experienced and I had to save a couple of landings by stomping the rudder and adjusting the pitch at the center pivot. I got out after the first landing which required hard rudder to pick up the wing. I'm not particularly risk averse, but I'm not crazy, either. |
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San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61).
The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka |
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San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61). The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka Getting checked out is VERY different than instruction from the ground up. Face it, it CAN be done, but it is not financially or professionally sound to instruct a beginner in a high-performance, complex aircraft. You're going to break expensive shit and overwhelm (most) prospective private pilots with management of a HP/Complex airplane. You're just tempting fate. Pranging a 152 onto the runway is a very different thing than pranging a Bo onto the runway (from a MX perspective). It's just not smart. As for the throw-over yoke waiver. Those are only granted to American Bonanza Society certified instructors for use during their clinics. You can't even do a BFR with a single yoke (stupid, I know). Dual yokes can be rented (and the change takes ~30 min) for a reasonable price. |
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Getting checked out is VERY different than instruction from the ground up. Face it, it CAN be done, but it is not financially or professionally sound to instruct a beginner in a high-performance, complex aircraft. You're going to break expensive shit and overwhelm (most) prospective private pilots with management of a HP/Complex airplane. You're just tempting fate. Pranging a 152 onto the runway is a very different thing than pranging a Bo onto the runway (from a MX perspective). It's just not smart. As for the throw-over yoke waiver. Those are only granted to American Bonanza Society certified instructors for use during their clinics. You can't even do a BFR with a single yoke (stupid, I know). Dual yokes can be rented (and the change takes ~30 min) for a reasonable price. I'm not trying to be difficult...and I agree that learning in a complex aircraft is a bit more imtimidating than a simple airplane...but I reiterate that it is done all the time. It may not be financially smart, and dropping a Bonanza on the runway is a mx nightmare it IS done. Hell, what is the first airplane a Naval Aviation cadet steps up into? A T34C. What is a T34 but a Bonanza with a tandem cockpit and a PAT6. I think we are getting off the OP's topic of "what is this nicely equiped, low milage, garage kept, with a moon roof and vanity mirrors" airplane worth. By now, he's probably got the idea that a Bonanza isn't the airplane to learn to fly in. |
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I'm not trying to be difficult...and I agree that learning in a complex aircraft is a bit more imtimidating than a simple airplane...but I reiterate that it is done all the time. It may not be financially smart, and dropping a Bonanza on the runway is a mx nightmare it IS done. Hell, what is the first airplane a Naval Aviation cadet steps up into? A T34C. What is a T34 but a Bonanza with a tandem cockpit and a PAT6. Military instruction is VASTLY different than civilian instruction. And the student isn't paying for gas/mx when learning to fly a T-34 (T-6, now). It can be done - but not by most civilian instructors, and not on most civilian student budgets. For this reason, my standard internet advice is, "don't learn to fly in a HP/Complex airplane." I think we are getting off the OP's topic of "what is this nicely equiped, low milage, garage kept, with a moon roof and vanity mirrors" airplane worth. By now, he's probably got the idea that a Bonanza isn't the airplane to learn to fly in.
He would be correct (unless he can find a VERY competent instructor and has spare cash laying around). About the perfect trainer/first airplane would be a C-172. I, of course, disregarded this advice, and own a Bo 
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San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61). The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka I don't necessarily think a C-150 or C-152, or a Cherokee 140ish airplane is a good choice for a primary trainer, although when I learned to fly, I didn't care as they were airplanes and that was more important. I didn't know about the Mesa program. Seems to me I recall at least one of the college type flight schools in the SW got their start as a source of pilots for the Japanese airlines, and it makes sense that they would emulate the programs the German airlines were using. I used to rent a C-152 once a year just to refresh my memory about the reasons I came to hate them. 
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San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61). The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka I don't necessarily think a C-150 or C-152, or a Cherokee 140ish airplane is a good choice for a primary trainer, although when I learned to fly, I didn't care as they were airplanes and that was more important. I didn't know about the Mesa program. Seems to me I recall at least one of the college type flight schools in the SW got their start as a source of pilots for the Japanese airlines, and it makes sense that they would emulate the programs the German airlines were using. I used to rent a C-152 once a year just to refresh my memory about the reasons I came to hate them.
Everyone has thier opinions. If the people are of the proper weight, I think a c150 is a great primary trainer. |
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I loved the 150...solo. Course, I loved the C120 and 140 also. Why no Cessna 130 I wonder? I also thought the Tomahawk or Beech Skipper would've been great airplanes...with a 150+hp motor in them...and a stick.
I need to go rent an aerobatic something or other. Saw a Zlin 242 at the local airport. Wonder if they rent that out. Any of you ever flown the Zlin? They look bad ass for a 180hp side-by-side. Kind of like a prop T37. Hmmmm Night all.] ka |
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[ He would be correct (unless he can find a VERY competent instructor and has spare cash laying around). About the perfect trainer/first airplane would be a C-172. I, of course, disregarded this advice, and own a Bo V Tail? 35? which one? I love me some old Bonanza. I've got almost 500 hrs of A36 time but there is nothing like the throw over yoke, "piano" keys and a V Tail that says BONANZA. I've got a few hours in a '47. What an awesome airplane! Very high tech for the post WW II era. ka PS, does yours have the CS prop or the 2 position climb/cruise electric prop? |
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[ He would be correct (unless he can find a VERY competent instructor and has spare cash laying around). About the perfect trainer/first airplane would be a C-172. I, of course, disregarded this advice, and own a Bo V Tail? 35? which one? I love me some old Bonanza. I've got almost 500 hrs of A36 time but there is nothing like the throw over yoke, "piano" keys and a V Tail that says BONANZA. I've got a few hours in a '47. What an awesome airplane! Very high tech for the post WW II era. ka PS, does yours have the CS prop or the 2 position climb/cruise electric prop? 1963 P35. Hydraulic prop. No piano keys. 
Currently getting the engine rebuilt while I'm deployed because of this... 
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Quoted:
San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61). The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka Yeah, but Mesa sucks. |
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San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61). The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka Yeah, but Mesa sucks. a big +1 |
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That is a damn good looking Bonanza, V21. I have only flown one once, and it was quite enjoyable. Thanks! They really are some of the best bang-for-the-buck when it comes to general aviation. I can't wait to get back, drop the new motor in and go flying again! |
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San Juan College in NM trained many thousands of pilots in cooperation with Mesa Airlines . Up until recently, this program used BE-A36's for Private, Instrument, and Commercial training. BE 58's for the Multi engine phase, and the BE1900 for Turbine Transition. It is a misconception that a primary student NEEDS to start out in a 152 or a PA28. I'm not saying it is for everyone...just not outside of the realm of possibility. A structured program would be preferrable (ie: 141 over 61). The "throw over" yoke is a different matter. While it CAN be done, I agree that it is a really bad idea for a primary student. Consider though, at some point, everyone that ever got checked out in an old Bonanza did so with an instructor in the right seat...with no yoke in front of him. ka Yeah, but Mesa sucks. a big +1 QFT 
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