Posted: 4/19/2009 11:29:56 AM EDT
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I have a small two bedroom/one bath house that I am renovating. I am running all new water lines for the bathroom and kitchen. I basically have around 35 - 45 feet (x2 for hot/cold) of line to run to the various outlets. I have no experience sweating copper pipe, but reading about it and watching some youtube videos, it doesn't look too difficult. I understand the basic concept, clean pipe, use flux, heat the joint (not the pipe) to let the solder be pulled to the heat. However, like I said no experience. Is there a reason I should not use CPVC? The basic layout is: from water heater [the cold water line] will run about 4 feet to toilet so I will use a 3/4 in/out with 1/2 tee to drop down to toilet valve. continue on about another 6 feet then use a 3/4 to 3/4 to 3/4 tee One line will go to kitchen sink, so I will run 3/4 about 6 feet to 3/4 to 1/2 90 to sink valve The other line will supply the tub/shower and washer, a 3/4 line will run about 5 feet then 90, then run about 16 inches to tub, so I will use a 3/4 to 3/4 to 1/2, 1/2 inch tee to supply the tub, the 3/4 line will run about 10 inches then 90, so I will use a 3/4 to 1/2 inch 90 and run 1/2 over to washer valves, so I will have another 90 or two there. The bathroom sink is just on the other side of the the water heater, I will run a 1/2 to sink valve. This will be run through interior studs (well the 3/4 line from the water heater to the kitchen is on the outside wall, but I have full access to the studs). Did not want to run anything on the outside wall, but just couldn't avoid it. Looking at the costs, I think it will be about 2.5x to run copper versus CPVC. Copper or CPVC? Thanks for any insight. |
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PEX, dude, PEX. flexible, so it requires a lot less fittings. Stupid easy to work with. freeze safe. doesn't loose heat like copper. 100' of 3/4" was about $34 at home depot last i checked. fittings are relatively expensive, but you'll use a lot less of them cause it's flexible. the fitting tool is expensive (i paid $70-80 @ lowes) but it's worth it, and you can probably rent one for a couple bucks a day. stupid easy to add a fitting to the line later. also, why are you running hot water to your toilet? you'll probably want to run straight 3/4 to the tub. ETA: i just finished my bathroom. probably did 50 PEX crimp fittings. every one was tight on the first try. not one leaked. not a one. ETA2: the only minus to pex is it can't be exposed to sunlight. |
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Most new construction is plastic pipe............................... So why not CPVC? Stay away from outside walls. CPVC get brittle. If allowed to freeze cracks can from fitting to fitting (I've seen 10' spiraling cracks). Needs to be supported at closer intervals. Is only commonly found in 1/2 and 3/4, which can be a limiting factor in high WSFU loads. Looks like crap. |
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Most new construction is plastic pipe............................... So why not CPVC? Stay away from outside walls. CPVC get brittle. If allowed to freeze cracks can from fitting to fitting (I've seen 10' spiraling cracks). Needs to be supported at closer intervals. Is only commonly found in 1/2 and 3/4, which can be a limiting factor in high WSFU loads. Looks like crap. I'm no expert, but copper pipes burst if allowed to freeze too. Supported at closer intervals, isn't that big of a deal. 1/2 and 3/4 is fine for a single family residence Who cares what it looks like? It also seems much easier for the layman to work with. |
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Most new construction is plastic pipe............................... So why not CPVC? Stay away from outside walls. CPVC get brittle. If allowed to freeze cracks can from fitting to fitting (I've seen 10' spiraling cracks). Needs to be supported at closer intervals. Is only commonly found in 1/2 and 3/4, which can be a limiting factor in high WSFU loads. Looks like crap. I'm no expert, but copper pipes burst if allowed to freeze too. yes, but not whole chunks of pipe Supported at closer intervals, isn't that big of a deal.Your right, just a pain in the ass 1/2 and 3/4 is fine for a single family residence Deoending on how many fixtures, and the supply piping/pressure/ and GPM demand, WI codes makes us go to 1" often Who cares what it looks like?I do 
It also seems much easier for the layman to work with. This it is, but I still get to go fix it often. |
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PEX, dude, PEX. flexible, so it requires a lot less fittings. Stupid easy to work with. freeze safe. doesn't loose heat like copper. 100' of 3/4" was about $34 at home depot last i checked. fittings are relatively expensive, but you'll use a lot less of them cause it's flexible. the fitting tool is expensive (i paid $70-80 @ lowes) but it's worth it, and you can probably rent one for a couple bucks a day. stupid easy to add a fitting to the line later. also, why are you running hot water to your toilet? you'll probably want to run straight 3/4 to the tub. ETA: i just finished my bathroom. probably did 50 PEX crimp fittings. every one was tight on the first try. not one leaked. not a one. ETA2: the only minus to pex is it can't be exposed to sunlight. THIS PEX literally changed my life. |
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These are your friend: Shark Bite Plumbing
If you need to connect old copper supply lines to your new PEX, these are a must. |
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new ABS? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it.
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) |
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) That's no doubt the stuff I was thinking of––thanks.
Isn't ABS the (black) DWV stuff they used in trailer homes? |
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) That's no doubt the stuff I was thinking of––thanks.
Isn't ABS the (black) DWV stuff they used in trailer homes? that is what i was trying to get at without being called out. i dont have 15 years to prove my theory though. criming plastic pipes with metal rings is bad. |
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PEX will not be the next PB. The crimp system that viega uses is not a bad idea. Those crimps are so strong that when you take a piece of pex and crimp two fittings on the end and try to pull them off, the pipe will stretch and break before the fittings would ever let go. We are talking about using an extreme amount of force here too, not just pulling it by hand. Heavy hydraulic systems use a similar system. At this point I try to avoid copper when ever I can.
Someone mentioned ABS as well for drain pipe. I happen to like ABS over PVC for drain pipe. Some have the misconception that it is a cheaper product when in fact it actually costs more. |
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PEX has been used in Europe since the 1960s. It started being used in the US in the 1980s. So, we have about 25 years of US use and almost 50 years of use in Europe. Sounds like a pretty good track record to me. 25 years is just enough time for lotsa class action lawsuits. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) That's no doubt the stuff I was thinking of––thanks. Isn't ABS the (black) DWV stuff they used in trailer homes? that is what i was trying to get at without being called out. i dont have 15 years to prove my theory though. criming plastic pipes with metal rings is bad. why? |
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PEX will not be the next PB. The crimp system that viega uses is not a bad idea. Those crimps are so strong that when you take a piece of pex and crimp two fittings on the end and try to pull them off, the pipe will stretch and break before the fittings would ever let go. We are talking about using an extreme amount of force here too, not just pulling it by hand. Heavy hydraulic systems use a similar system. At this point I try to avoid copper when ever I can. Someone mentioned ABS as well for drain pipe. I happen to like ABS over PVC for drain pipe. Some have the misconception that it is a cheaper product when in fact it actually costs more. +1 for Viega Only 2 systems I use are the Wirsbo ProPex(expansion), and Viega. I like Viega because it puts an even amount of pressure on the fitting, without the hard pressure lines associated with the edges of the band on typical crimp rings(which after PB, I hate) |
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) That's no doubt the stuff I was thinking of––thanks.
Isn't ABS the (black) DWV stuff they used in trailer homes? Yup, but not just in trailer homes, it is used in all types of homes/businesses etc. Just not as common in the colder climates. In AZ, ABS was all just about anyone used for DWV. |
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) That's no doubt the stuff I was thinking of––thanks.
Isn't ABS the (black) DWV stuff they used in trailer homes? Yup, but not just in trailer homes, it is used in all types of homes/businesses etc. Just not as common in the colder climates. In AZ, ABS was all just about anyone used for DWV. Ah, thanks. I'm from Wis. and live in Illinois currently, so that's why I have seen so little of it. PVC is about all there is since the iron stuff became obsolete. Thanks for the info.
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I did my own and chose copper. I had never sweated a joint and ended up with ONE that leaked––out of dozens. I drained the water, heated it up, added a little solder, and all joints have held for 5+ years. Every plumber I talked to recommended copper. Every plastic pipe has been "the greatest thing since sliced bread"––until the problems started showing up. Will PEX be the new Polybutylene? Time will tell––but I won't have to worry about it. Fixed it! (although I doubt pex will be the next PB) That's no doubt the stuff I was thinking of––thanks.
Isn't ABS the (black) DWV stuff they used in trailer homes? Yup, but not just in trailer homes, it is used in all types of homes/businesses etc. Just not as common in the colder climates. In AZ, ABS was all just about anyone used for DWV. Ah, thanks. I'm from Wis. and live in Illinois currently, so that's why I have seen so little of it. PVC is about all there is since the iron stuff became obsolete. Thanks for the info.
My pleasure!
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