Posted: 2/25/2009 12:09:34 PM EDT
|
Alright guys, anybody attempted this themselves? Good locations for info?
I am a DIYer and am wondering about this job. Facts: house is a 1 story 2 bath with, dishwasher, waterheater, washer, and icemaker connection. I am looking at PEX that is what everyone in my neighborhood is putting in right now in place of the 27yr old galvanized piping. The thing is the quotes for this stuff is outrageous. People in my neighborhood are paying 5-7500 for 3-2's to 4-3s. Alot of the cost seems to be from refinishing the walls which is the easy part. I know I am going to have to replace the pipe eventually, right now I dont have any leaks but I am trying to pre-plan if I do need this job done. Whos done this and what info you got. |
| I helped a friend befor he sold his house. All I can say is that PEX is your friend. He had a ranch style but I would think that if you pulled tohe old pipe out you could fish the PEX through the existing holes. A crimper and cutter is less than a hundred bucks and if you Fup you can uncrimp and try again. It was nice to run every thing on a manifold. |
|
First off what's the life span of copper? If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Secondly, what is the method called where you run the PEX all back to 1 location? Do you plan on doing this? Might cost more upfront but no splices anywhere. Also it gives you the ability to do the instant hot water thing (not a plumber just watch alot of DIY shows). It would also give you the ability to flush a toilet while someone is showering and them not get scolded. PICS |
|
Quoted:
I did mine with the pex pipe and manabloc and it cost me around 2400. my house got hit by lighting and the heat softened the soldered joints all over the house Interesting, was anyone in the shower? Although I think MythBusters showed even if you have a direct strike to your copper and are sitting in the bath tub you wouldn't feel anything. They didn't mention anything about solder joints. Dang that means your joints were heated up to the 500*F range? Impressive. Was it not properly grounded or what? |
|
There was a major pin hole problem in my area and a lot of homes were retroed with Pex. From what I gather, there are two types of connections used. One is a crimp and the other is a heat fit over a special connector.
If you are mechanical, you can do it yourself for considerably less than having someone come in. If you plan it out, you may be able to do it without a total shut down of your water supply until final connections are made. A lot of homes here are two floors with truss construction and in some cases, the company that did the work had a short skinny guy that actually crawled into the trusses to act as a center point on a run of Pex. Can lights were use as pull points and holes were made in closets to gain access. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I did mine with the pex pipe and manabloc and it cost me around 2400. my house got hit by lighting and the heat softened the soldered joints all over the house Interesting, was anyone in the shower? Although I think MythBusters showed even if you have a direct strike to your copper and are sitting in the bath tub you wouldn't feel anything. They didn't mention anything about solder joints. Dang that means your joints were heated up to the 500*F range? Impressive. Was it not properly grounded or what? Probably very well grounded. Lightning currents can get up into the 100 kA range occasionally. It only takes one large hit to do a huge amount of damage. The down lines we installed on a building were 2000 MCM (over 1.5 inches in diameter) and had extensive damage after a particularly large strike. The antenna they were grounding was destroyed. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I did mine with the pex pipe and manabloc and it cost me around 2400. my house got hit by lighting and the heat softened the soldered joints all over the house Interesting, was anyone in the shower? Although I think MythBusters showed even if you have a direct strike to your copper and are sitting in the bath tub you wouldn't feel anything. They didn't mention anything about solder joints. Dang that means your joints were heated up to the 500*F range? Impressive. Was it not properly grounded or what? Probably very well grounded. Lightning currents can get up into the 100 kA range occasionally. It only takes one large hit to do a huge amount of damage. The down lines we installed on a building were 2000 MCM (over 1.5 inches in diameter) and had extensive damage after a particularly large strike. The antenna they were grounding was destroyed. Ok with my limited knowledge of electricity... If the pipes were grounded then the electricity from the strike must have found a more efficient way to get to a ground than the grounded pipes? Have you identified where the pipe grounding failed and the lightening strike arced to another ground source? |
|
Quoted:
First off what's the life span of copper? If it ain't broke don't fix it. Secondly, what is the method called where you run the PEX all back to 1 location? Do you plan on doing this? Might cost more upfront but no splices anywhere. Also it gives you the ability to do the instant hot water thing (not a plumber just watch alot of DIY shows). It would also give you the ability to flush a toilet while someone is showering and them not get scolded. PICS I have old galvanized piping, rusts from the inside out you dont know it is broke until it starts leaking, which is happening all over my neighborhood now. I dont want to repipe just pre-planning for the inevitable. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I did mine with the pex pipe and manabloc and it cost me around 2400. my house got hit by lighting and the heat softened the soldered joints all over the house Interesting, was anyone in the shower? Although I think MythBusters showed even if you have a direct strike to your copper and are sitting in the bath tub you wouldn't feel anything. They didn't mention anything about solder joints. Dang that means your joints were heated up to the 500*F range? Impressive. Was it not properly grounded or what? Probably very well grounded. Lightning currents can get up into the 100 kA range occasionally. It only takes one large hit to do a huge amount of damage. The down lines we installed on a building were 2000 MCM (over 1.5 inches in diameter) and had extensive damage after a particularly large strike. The antenna they were grounding was destroyed. Ok with my limited knowledge of electricity... If the pipes were grounded then the electricity from the strike must have found a more efficient way to get to a ground than the grounded pipes? Have you identified where the pipe grounding failed and the lightening strike arced to another ground source? The pipes conducted the current to ground (where lightning is trying to go). The current was probably large enough to actually heat the pipes themselves. You may not be clear on what earth grounding does. It provides a path to earth for current. A well grounded metallic water pipe system has a very good connection to the earth. Lightning current will try to follow the pipe. The use of earth as a zero voltage reference works only to a limited degree. At low voltages (like 120 V) the earth is a very poor conductor. At high currents the conductors will also have significant voltage drop, resulting in heating of the conductor. The earth ground connections on a building service entrance are for lightning and high voltage leakage from the pole transformer. There is equipment available to thaw frozen pipes by sending current through them. |
|
Quoted:
First off what's the life span of copper? If it ain't broke don't fix it. Secondly, what is the method called where you run the PEX all back to 1 location? Do you plan on doing this? Might cost more upfront but no splices anywhere. Also it gives you the ability to do the instant hot water thing (not a plumber just watch alot of DIY shows). It would also give you the ability to flush a toilet while someone is showering and them not get scolded. PICS What you're probably talking about is installing these wall mounted water heaters that take care of each load. I know someone who has one, but it's for a tool shed. I haven't heard too many good things about them, and they have to be sized up properly for the load or else it'll go hot and cold all the time. Another way to do instant hot water, which makes more sense in a larger house than you have, but you may want to consider it anyway, is a recirculating system where a low flow of hot water is circulated throughout the house all the time. The pump is placed just before the water heater on the return side. You'll run smaller size pipe on the return side as you hardly need any flow at all to keep the water hot. You'll need to install check valves as well as a back flow preventer, and the whole thing to be insulated well or you'll run your power bill up. |
|
What you're probably talking about is installing these wall mounted water heaters that take care of each load. I know someone who has one, but it's for a tool shed. I haven't heard too many good things about them, and they have to be sized up properly for the load or else it'll go hot and cold all the time.
The tankless water heaters take very large current (multiple 30-50 amo 240 circuits) or large gas inputs. The whole house ones have the samel problem as a tank heater sine the pipes are full of cool water. Smaller point of use ones are available, but you need multiple units (and they still need pretty high power or lots of gas). Standby losses are not that high on most new heaters. A circulating loop can use thermosiphon or a pump. Thermosiphon systems need larger pipes out and back, and are loose heat all the time from the pipes. The return pipe cannot be insulated since the heat l;oss is what drives the circulation. Pumped loops can use timers or motion sensors so that they only turn on when needed. The return line can also be smaller than the supply line. |
| I deal in industrial and commercial boiler systems so I've never seen a heat powered siphon system. Cool idea, but the energy loss sounds pretty bad. I was thinking that you could put a temp sensor in the pipes and run a control circuit for the pump off of that, but I haven't seen that done before. |
|
I redid my house with pex. It was originally galvanized pipe, looked ready to go.
I didn't do the mantibloc thing, just t joints and some valves where I though needed. Did do the crimp method of joining pipes, nice and easy. Best part was running it across the joists in the basement where the run wasn't quite straight, 0 joints for like 30'! Lowes even has the components in stock, just watch no one I found rented the crimper (about $120 or so). -B |
| I use pex for everything I do. You can hook a fish tape on the copper when you pull it out, then hook the new pex to the fish tape and pull you new line back through the wall. Very little wall damage, only the places where there are t's really. I did my whole house 2 bath up 1 down (new construction) for around 400, Just counting the pex pipe and pex fittings. |